Best sand tire??

[Rustytinhorn]

All you 250r veteran riders, I need some info on what sand tires to choose for my '85 250r. I ride at the Little Saharas in Utah and soon to be St. Anthonys in Idaho.
There are lots of sand tires, but is one design better than the other. Also how many paddles should I look for?? Just wanted to know what SAND tires everyone likes to run since I want to buy the right pair the first time. Thanks
I have the usual mods-
extended swingarm
wheel spacers on each end
fmf fatty pipe and silencer
flatslide carb
boysen reeds

[breastman569]

i really like my edge paddle tires made by skat trak they are 20-10-10 8 paddle tire. they are really light and have a great scoop and great hook up. most people will tell you not to go with the haulers because you cant turn on them or what not, but just ask dammit he is running them and i have run them as well. the only reason why i went with them edge is because they were a little cheaper than the haulers from www.rockymountainatv.com hope this helps. remember in the sand you want a light tire not something heavy thats going to be unsprung weight.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i279/breastman569/Three%20Wheelers/PICT0684.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i279/breastman569/Three%20Wheelers/PICT0685.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i279/breastman569/Three%20Wheelers/PICT0594.jpg

[random-strike]

i like sand skate II

[El'Capitan]

Skat track haulers IMO, best paddle, and go for the straight ones.

[cr480r]

I have haulers on my quad, and before that I had the edge's. The haulers do not turn as well under power. I can picture it being even worse on a trike. The haulers put way more power to the sand though.

[350xBomb]

I have the Edge on my 86R and I love em...I had sand sharks on my 350x (straight paddle) and they did fine. Turned that bike into a wheelie machine, but the R has a lot more wheel spin so I think a V married with a lower profile tire makes for easy slidin.

[tecat-z]

Oh yeah, skat track buffed 9 blade haulers on 10'' lightweight wheels. Turning is really not an issue, i have used straight an V and prefer the hook of a lightweight straight the best.

[Yamahondaman]

in 200 foot or Hill Climbing i run the 9-paddle TALLER HALLER on 22-11x8..
300 foot sand drags i use the Zipper or the Pro-Wedge Paddles
LOTS of people like the "in-between" Paddle .. 8-10 Paddle Hallers

[GPracer2500]

Choosing sand tires is tough. There's so many variables.

Best performing set I've tried on my 85 (+2 swing, +4 axle, stock(ish) bore, mild port) were 20x10x8 6 paddle Haulers. That's not to say it's the very "best" tire but it's the best I've tried and they worked very well. All the 8 paddlers I've tried on my 250r where too much paddle. In my experience with a vareity of paddles on a variety of ATVs, most settups I've played with ended up being overpaddled.

I did some paddle tire testing at Oldsmobile hill in Glamis. 20x10x8 6 paddle Haulers on .190 rims (14lbs ??oz per) vs. 20x11x10 8 paddle GBC Sand Sharks on .160 rims (17lbs 11.2oz). The 6 paddle Haulers dominated the Sand Sharks in basically every way. The Haulers would pull 5 gear up Olds while the Sand Sharks would not. That equaled a multiple bike length difference vs. the control (a Raptor 700). The difference was so drastic, not only for drag racing but in the general responsiveness of the engine, that I didn't even care to dune my ATC until I got some better tires (I've got something else to ride). If not for the back-to-back testing I wouldn't have felt that way and would likely have trooped along with my sucky Sand Sharks not even knowing how bad they sucked.

At first I was sure the weight difference in the tire/wheels combos was making all the difference. After more testing I realize that too much paddle can slow down even a fairly light tire.

I have another set of Sand Sharks (8" rims) that I've been cutting down to figure out what works best for me. At first I just removed weight (from 17lbs 6oz to 13lbs 14oz) and kept the paddles themselves the same shape and height relative to the carcass. They were improved in this form but still dragged on the engine too much. Simply TOO MUCH TRACTION. We all know what it feels like when there isn't enough traction. Having too much traction is harder to spot and it's easy to get there with paddle tires in the sand.

I've since made more changes and should be trying them this weekend.

Here's what I've been experimenting with. These tires are my first attempt at comp cutting my own tires--so don't laugh at the irregularities. I've yet to figure out how to use my cutting tool effectively on the sidewalls. Cutting tires reminds me of polishing--it takes some skill, the right tools, and practice to get pro results. These are 20x11x8 8 paddle GBC Sand Sharks on Dick Cepek rims. They originally weighed 17lbs 6oz each. After cutting the carcass (and a little bit of the paddles) down I was at 13lbs 14oz.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6854/p2110177mediumzx7.jpg


They were improved but they still would not spin up effectively for top end performance like the 6 paddle Haulers. So I've cut the paddles themselves down a bunch to reduce the traction. I'm expecting these to work similarly to the Haulers. I should know next weekend.

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/5186/p2110186mediumzu9.jpg

Most of the focus in my testing has been drag and/or hill climb performance. But I do snake and play dune so all-around performance is important to me. If I could afford them I'd have some STU Padla Brat 21x12x8 6 paddles. Also, I'd really like to try some 22x11x8 7 paddle Haulers with a bead-to-bead or tripple buff.

[Dammit!]

Skat track haulers IMO, best paddle, and go for the straight ones.

That's what I'm running now too. I love them and can turn and pitch it out no problem at all. Mine are 20x10 8 paddle.

I used to run 20x8 sand sharks and another problem with those is that they're not 20 inches tall. They're closer to 22 if you measure them or put them next to some real 20's. Don't know who the hell measured them but they're tall so that's like going up a tooth on the front sprocket which costs you some power.

[Rustytinhorn]

Thanks guys. I've looked at the Skat trak haulers, but what about the gliders??
I can get that one in 6 paddle and is appears to be a little lighter of a tire (despite the shorter paddles)??
Thanks for the help. You hit the nail on the head.

To get technical....is there much performance difference between running a 20x11 on a 9 inch rim or an 8 inch. The bigger sidewall should give me more cusion, but anything else...?? Also I'd like to get 11inch wide if I could, but would downsizing to a 10inch make much differnce in flotation??
Thanks again.

[GPracer2500]

Hauler: 7/8" tall
http://www.trx450r.org/forum/uploads/monthly_02_2007/post-2675-1170958313.jpg

Extreme: 7/8" tall but thicker and stiffer than regular Haulers
http://www.trx450r.org/forum/uploads/monthly_02_2007/post-2675-1170958321.jpg

Glider: 5/8" tall, intended for youth ATVs in low paddle counts but available with up to 14 paddles for high HP machines
http://www.trx450r.org/forum/uploads/monthly_02_2007/post-2675-1170958325.jpg

For comparison, my uncut SandSharks have paddles over 1" tall (nearly 1 1/4").

Tractionwise, I believe it works out to something like this (approximately): 6 paddle Extreme = 7 paddle Hauler = 9 paddle Glider.

AFAIK, wider and/or larger diameter rims will turn and slide sideways better at the expense of drag perfromance.

[3Razors]

Just stick with the 8 paddle hauler. It is tried and true and the best setup for a stock or pretty built 250r.

[NOS_350X]

Haulers are good for a straight line. The Xtrems, thats what i run on my banshee because it goes in a straight line REAL fast. For general riding you cant beat a sand skate II they are light and you can turn them, when riding on harder surfaces they dont bounce as bad as a straight paddle. They hook up extremely good for a v paddle also. On a bike thats not EXTREMELY high in the hp department your not going to notice a diffrence between the haulers and sand skate II's except you can turn the sand skates much easyer. The edge is actualy heavyer than the sand sake II and sand star's.

[Rustytinhorn]

What is a good wheel to put your sand tires on. I don't need it to be fancy, just needs to do its job.
I was thinking about an ITP Steel Wheel and also the Douglas's .125-.190 from rockymountainatv.com . Much preference between the two??
Thanks

[Rustytinhorn]

So I just got done reading some previous threads on ITP and Douglas wheels.
Seems as far as Douglas's are concerned, that I should get the .190 because riders have had trouble witht the smaller sizes bending.
What about the ITP steel. I'm still in the dark on them. They are cheaper than the Douglas, but what about strength and weight wise??

[GPracer2500]

I've run .125s, .160s, and .190s. I'm done with the .160s and .190s. Yes, they are stronger--but on a sand wheel I don't need the strength and I don't want the extra weight.

If you're really hard on wheels--as in bending them--then stay clear of the .125s. I know folks that ARE hard on wheels. Usually it's some kind of wreck that harms them. I've never had an issue with .125s though.

.160s are a good compromise if your not sure. If you need the strength of a .190 then you should probably be looking for a rolled edge rim anyway.

I got this info from a fella who said he called Douglas:
10" rim x 9" wide: .125 = 3.75lbs, .160 = 4.5lbs, .190 = 5.75lbs

[Rustytinhorn]

I'm not a real aggressive rider, but I do go through some nasty terrain where my rims will rub on the rocks. I've only ever had oem wheels and despite a little dent or two never had any troubles.
Thanx for the weights. After looking somemore I think I will go with the ITP Steel wheels just because they are a lot less expensive and should perform just fine as a sand wheel with a little jumping. I'm planning on running a 20x??x8 so that will give me a bigger sidewall and protect my rim a bit more. My worst fear is going around a corner, rolling the tire back on the outside wheel, hitting a rock and damaging my rim and cutting up my sidewall or killing my bead or both.
Guess the only question I have now is what thickness/weight is the ITP Steel??

Has anyone tried the Kenda Geckos??
Thanks

[GPracer2500]

I'm not a real aggressive rider, but I do go through some nasty terrain where my rims will rub on the rocks....

Has anyone tried the Kenda Geckos??
Thanks

My experience my not apply then. There are basically zero rocks like that in and around the sand I run in (mostly ISDRA). And if there's that difference, there's prolly a bunch of other differences in the sand, terrain, riding styles, etc.

Geckos on steel rims are so inexpensive that you'd be hard to go wrong. As long as they work decent (and they should) then it's a great value. The should be darn durable. I've never run steel rims but I assume they're strong (but how heavy?). And most any molded tire is going to hold up better than a Hauler. I've seen plenty of old Haulers with pieces of paddle missing. I've seen even older molded tires still hanging in there. That durabilty comes at the price of performance though.

[mean350]

has anyone tried the kenda nomad paddle tires in the sand. the ones i got iv only had them in the mud on a 110 and went more places than a 4wd quad. never spun in the mud at all. i bet they would be good in sand too.

[Huffa]

Is it my understanding these (pro-wedge's) work good in sand or snow? I know they can't compare to paddle but would think you can spin them a lot easier yet still have 1/2 decent traction in either terrian.

I did not use them yet nor did I really buy (came with machine) them, that's why I ask.

[nouseforaname90]

I'm pretty sure they work good in the sand or snow. I think part of the ingeniousness behind them (and some other snow tires) are that they stretch as the tire spins faster, which gives you better traction. Pretty much they become larger as they spin faster and allows you to cut through the snow. They also work well in sand for the same reason. They are high profile.. helps in snow and sand.

Thats just what I thought, though...

[random-strike]

Is it my understanding these (pro-wedge's) work good in sand or snow? I know they can't compare to paddle but would think you can spin them a lot easier yet still have 1/2 decent traction in either terrian.

I did not use them yet nor did I really buy (came with machine) them, that's why I ask.

i see a lot of trikes with those on them

[NOS_350X]

I would stay away from the steel wheels. there just too heavy. And the weight of the rims takes alot of power away from your bike. For the sand the .125's are the best bet, super light and if soemthing does happen to them you can just fix it with a hammer. look next to my name the only thing ive ever had that i coudnt fix with a hammer. 2 weekends ago we had a wreck with 2 quads out here and one had the 190's on the back and we couldnt straighten it. So she has to buy a new rim. if it was a .125 i bet i could have gotten it close enough.

All in all if performance is any concern dont even think about the steelies. For the price you cant beat gekos.

[350xBomb]

I agree with NOS 100%, Douglas .125s (blue label I believe) are the way to go. If your that worried about price gekos are an ok choice i guess...my friends nephew has them on his blaster and I think they are the worst tire ive experienced, for that application anyways. Ive never seen em on anything else.

[okieRrider]

I run the AMS sidewinder paddles on my 400ex and they do an excellent job. They turn good, go straight good, and the main bling about them is the roost you can throw while your WOT...lol.

[Rustytinhorn]

[QUOTE=GPracer2500]My experience my not apply then. There are basically zero rocks like that in and around the sand I run in (mostly ISDRA). And if there's that difference, there's prolly a bunch of other differences in the sand, terrain, riding styles, etc.

Sorry I should have been a little more clear. To clarify I have never had sand tires before, always just used my dirt tires for all of my riding, so in my backtrail riding I run into a lot of big rocks where the rim will get scraped a little no matter how hard I try just because of the terrain.
As far as rocks in the sand where I ride, the sand itself is pretty clean but there are patches of gravel and hard dirt trails around too. There are some big rocks, but they are around sand mountain and usually dont have too run over them.

[Rustytinhorn]

Is it my understanding these (pro-wedge's) work good in sand or snow? I know they can't compare to paddle but would think you can spin them a lot easier yet still have 1/2 decent traction in either terrian.

I did not use them yet nor did I really buy (came with machine) them, that's why I ask.

I was looking at getting a pro-wedge for my Yamaha Big Wheel to try out. They are supposed to be an excellent tire for the BW on sand, due to the fact that the BW's dont have that much power for paddles, but the need a different tire for sand other than the stock tire. As for your 250 they should spin pretty easy I would think. I bet anything that'd be one of the best tires you could get for snow on a 250, especially if aired down. But what do I know. Let me know how they turn out in both terrains. Just a thought, you might get more traction if you turn those tires around the other direction from what I can see.
Then again, if you dont want them you can always send them to my house.

On my Atc200 I have 25x12-9 Cheng Shin knobbys that I run at 2psi or little lower. They dont look like much in the pictures, but when run that low and in person they are probably the best dirt/mud/snow/sand tire I've ever had for a 200. We have a mountain on the north end of town that I climbed again just today.
Its a freshly plowed fireline break. It was mix of extreme mud and snow and I was sittin on the gas tank to keep from wheeling over backward and would still wheelie up. This is the second time I've climbed it and both times I've had to stop about 3/4 the way up cuz my carb cant handle the angle.
Then on the sand having my tires at 3psi or 2psi said wether I could climb a hill or not. (Hence the lower the pressure the larger the footprint you have.) My point being that having a low pressure (2psi max) and a wide mushy or strechy tire makes all the of difference in mud,snow, sand, rocks, dirt, anything...
(Duh....except I know that someone will complain that paddle tires will perform better in sand than any low pressure knobbys, and I agree, sand tires are made for the sand moreso than knobbys are, I was just saying as far as my knobbys go.) GADFREEZE!!!!! GADS!!!! I'm gonna have A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN NOW!!:crazy:

[Rustytinhorn]

What about the front tire. Does the stock tire really create enough drag to worry about getting a dune tire.

[El'Capitan]

i have run a mowhawk and a normal dirt tire (kenda front max) on my 350X at the dunes....the mowhawk does help noticeably, but the other one performed fine.