Prototypes?

[mymint87]

as you all know, currently on ebay there is a listing for Nicholson 500.

the seller has listed it as a "prototype 500x" causing some of you to go off the handle

there wasn't a DEFINED first or second generation Nicholson.....the styles constantly changed and different owners modded them to ther own personal tastes....

Nick was continuosly supplied with all sorts of one of a kind parts from Honda as he worked his magic. Honda was keen to see what he would come up with next.

His earlier work with the 185 full suspension lead to Honda making the 200x...so does this mean that 185 Nicholson frames are "Prototype 200x's"?....should we as a community describe them as such?...what does that do to the value of the frames?

and if the cessation didn't happen?...would this trike have lead to Honda producing an ATC 500x?

I know the word "prototype" is thrown around here, but, do you think all depends on how the ol school community will define it?....or should it be us as the present?

This is really big!! and I'm happy, finally for once, the Nicholson frame is in topic and hopefully it will take (IMO) it's rightful place as the king of all trikes....

Sorry Tiger Lovers:welcome:

[chris200x]

So I'm kinda confused now. That seller was just pumping his auction to make a few more bucks? I see he added to the description recently. Is your nick pretty much the same setup except for the the chrome and turbo? Or is it based more on the 185? Not alot of us really know too much about these nickolson jobs. Well at least me that is. What other kind of nickolson trikes are around?

[Billy Golightly]

Unless Honda themselves built it, I wouldn't consider it a prototype.


edit: I should clarify, I was refering to the nicholson suspension 185/200x connection. I don't think the Nicholson 185s could be considered a 200x proto type because it wasn't made by Honda, even though it could have been made "for" them.

[XTrumpX]

This is going to be a long argument. My understanding of a prototype is that it was made by the company during a R&D phase. Someone outside of the company that draws up a bike is an idea. Since Honda didn't produce that bike out of one of it's R&D sites or production line, I consider it NOT a prototype.
All of the protos I saw at the tracks in the 80's came right out of a manufacturers trailer in the morning, ran them around noon by the higher ranked riders in the region who were with those companies, and then towed away. If they went to production like the water 250r, they showed up at the end of the season like they did at Sante Fe in '83.

[200x Basket]

the 500x is a custom bike but not a prototype. I do think it is a very nice bike though!!!!

so what are the differences between it and yours?

[firefirefire90]

Mymints was build strictly for flattracking. He has the whole article and I have read it myself. This one on ebay looks quite a bit different and might have been built for a different purpose as in desert racing or short track as it seems to have a lot of room to turn with the 200x tank so far back in the rear. the forks would probably be lowerd and that short swingarm would be put on for ice racing or short track. Looks like it wouldn't do to well in desert racing with that little tank but if Nick Nicholson had this back when, he probablly had a larger tank that would come with it. Many possibilities.

[mymint87]

So I'm kinda confused now. That seller was just pumping his auction to make a few more bucks? I see he added to the description recently. Is your nick pretty much the same setup except for the the chrome and turbo? Or is it based more on the 185? Not alot of us really know too much about these nickolson jobs. Well at least me that is. What other kind of nickolson trikes are around?

Mine has 185 Tank and rear plastics, fox suspension, 81 250r rear axle, brakes XL500 engine....turbo'd of course

My Friend has 81 250r front end and rear fox suspension 81 250r carrier and axle/brakes XR500 tank and 185 rear plastics

[mymint87]

Unless Honda themselves built it, I wouldn't consider it a prototype.
.

I know "prototype" can be thrown around loosely and I can say your definition is in the most true and strict guidelines

but do you agree the suspension 185 lead to the 200x?

[mymint87]

Mymints was build strictly for flattracking. .

anyone that has seen mine knows mine is ONLY FOR PIMPING and disrupting the time warp continuem....LOL

[XTrumpX]

Not sure why someone would want a Nicholson? To me it's just another frame maker who started in a garage. In the Midwest, we had someone who was doing the same thing at the time... making new and modified frames from the ground up, Madden Chassis. The were heavy into car racing chassis (dirt and Clay) and tinkered with ATC/V chassis for a short while. They made aluminum frame in '86 when noone else made them. Problem was, they were a little off-balance for MX but extremely light on flats.
Oh, I just remembered. The oldest kid took a pair of shocks off a dirt bike and welded them on his brothers ATC 90. I remember they did that because he was trying to jump over a creek and wanted to make sure he didn't bounce on the other side (Balloon tires) when the front tire hit. He made it over.... over the handle bars ! The whole suspension blew up on impact. So, can I say he had a production suspension trike...LOL

[Billy Golightly]

I honestly don't know the history of their production well enough to say so. How long before the 200x was announced/released were they made? How much of a necessity was it at the time it came out, vs the 200x? I don't think I can say the suspension 185 lead honda to build the 200x...but I would say it made an engineer or someone in corporate go "Hmm, a 185 with suspension. That'd be a great seller." I only caution against saying that the suspension 185s lead to the 200xs because I don't know how many years Honda had the 200x design up their sleeves, vs how long Nicholson did. Its foolish to think Honda spent anything less then 2 years going from design to mold construction, to thorough product testing, to full production.

[XTrumpX]

How can you say the 185 lead the way to the 200x suspension... when the 200x came out after the 250r? 1983 I think would be the first year for the 200x, right? Or am I missing something in your post?

[mymint87]

The whole suspension blew up on impact. So, can I say he had a production suspension trike...LOL

seems a bit sarcastic......:welcome: I think in that case it would be better if you refered to it as a POS:postwhore

[mymint87]

Its foolish to think Honda spent anything less then 2 years going from design to mold construction, to thorough product testing, to full production.

I consider a 2 year timetable kinda conservative....and it's more foolish to say it's foolish

[chris200x]

I find this a very intresting topic.
so what was so special or desirable about these frames? did they make them for all models? 70,90,110 etc? and diffrent variations for each? Just hondas or what? I need info! LOL

[mymint87]

How can you say the 185 lead the way to the 200x suspension... when the 200x came out after the 250r? 1983 I think would be the first year for the 200x, right? Or am I missing something in your post?

maybe you are ...ummm the nicholson suspension 185 lead to the 200x with a 250r already in production...I think the addition of a 200x was a cinch for Honda

[XTrumpX]

I think it comes down to this. If racers were winning on frames made outside of the manufacturer, then other people wanted them. So and so ran one back in 1985 and won nationals, then I have to find me that frame. I always thought it was the rider who made the least amount of mistakes that won :wondering And if you made a mistake on a 3 wheeled machine, not much chance to beat the guy who ran perfect, frame XYZ or not.

[XTrumpX]

I think they 200x was geared toward the people who were glued to 4 strokes. The 200 was the first real competetive four stroke in the mx scene for the 2 wheelers... so they threw it in the 200 while the 185's were fading away. Other companies were coming out 200's of their own.

[mymint87]

I think it comes down to this. If racers were winning on frames made outside of the manufacturer, then other people wanted them. So and so ran one back in 1985 and won nationals, then I have to find me that frame. I always thought it was the rider who made the least amount of mistakes that won :wondering And if you made a mistake on a 3 wheeled machine, not much chance to beat the guy who ran perfect, frame XYZ or not.

um...sorry kinda lost me......I'm trying to understand....doesn't better suspension lead to less mistakes, or a more forgiving vehicle?

[XTrumpX]

um...sorry kinda lost me......I'm trying to understand....doesn't better suspension lead to less mistakes, or a more forgiving vehicle?
No, not less mistakes... but yes, more forgiving.
I was just pointing out that whatever bike won that season.. frame or suspension, everyone flocked to thinking it would make them that much better... which in some cases it did... but if you weren't that good before, you didn't get much better because of one piece of equipment.
I've been up for 26+ hours... I may be making sense to only myself :crazy:

[mymint87]

I think they 200x was geared toward the people who were glued to 4 strokes. .


Thats cool dude...you can think that...I'm cool:welcome:

I think that the Factory Riders were riping it up on Nicholson185s and Honda slapped the trike together with several already TESTED and MOLDED...BLah Blah Blah parts/engines and cranked out the 200x in record time to fill the demand.

[mymint87]

No, not less mistakes... but yes, more forgiving.
I was just pointing out that whatever bike won that season.. frame or suspension, everyone flocked to thinking it would make them that much better... which in some cases it did... but if you weren't that good before, you didn't get much better because of one piece of equipment.
I've been up for 26+ hours... I may be making sense to only myself :crazy:

GEEZ go to bed...LOL...but before you go...Thanks for all the input...:w00t:

You've given much to think about:beer

[XTrumpX]

I'll be hitting that sack around 7am (CST) Still working all weekend on server upgrades for our company. Sitting here running scripts all night.

I just try to add from experience. Alot of different things were happening on the west coast as compared to the Midwest. MX was more popular out there, stock cars here. They tried to keep us informed, we usually heard about the new stuff 1-2 weeks later as they made their way east.
About the 4 strokes, that was our observation out here. We couldn't understand why they made it when the 250's were out... but then again, it was a fin. We didn't have anyone out here with a Nicholson, was a regional thing I guess, like our Maddens.

[Derrick Adams]

I totally think that Honda would have produced a 500X and a 500R if the cease agreement wouldn't have came into effect. It was a natural growth. I think a 500X with a well designed suspension would be a TON of FUN!

[edog]

Got the link for the Nicholson 500?

[mymint87]

it's over in the EBAY forum

[Billy Golightly]

When did Nicholson start selling the suspension kit/frames for the 185/200s?

[Bigbore]

Mine was a mid 1982, thats when we had it picked up, so before then.

[Tecate250]

Prototypes? Interesting thread. I would go on a liquid cooled 500atc 4 stroke then a air cooled. It seems like the atv industry is always behind on technology.
What about a liquid cooled 350x? or liquid cooled 200x. If you can find other pieces off another bike is not really a prototype is it? You need something all new. Not just a motor, And frame. These 185s did you have to modify your frame to get shocks?

[Meat-BoX]

I would like to see your ride.
As for prototypes i say screw them old trikes and lets see all of your new age protypes. :w00t: I know there are some serious 500cc Trikes and that cool KTM powered Tecate. With the inverted forks and all the other cool stuff you guys are doing your the new age Prototype Trike builders. :beer
I like the thread and the cool info on a builder I didnt know about, just trying to give props to the people that are keeping Trikes alive and taking them to the next level.:naughty:

[firefirefire90]

Hey, i don't know if this is pertenent to anything...but if anyone needs a 185 full suspension nicholson blah blah blah, they're worth about 300 bucks here motor and all and are DANG UGLY but hey, we all have oour own preferences. Everyone's input really makes me put on the thinking cap. I think something cool, would to put a Nicholson 185 vs. a 200x. I wonder who would be the victor. Of course you would have to soup up the 185 a bit with a cam and carb but you know how it goes... lol

[mymint87]

I would like to see your ride.
:

sorry guys, the millions of flunks out there that rip off pics is making me cringe

[chris200x]

Id be willing to bet that is the rarest of the rare right there. How much coinage you got into that badboy? More than the reserve on that auction I assume?

[mymint87]

Twisting words around as normal. I need to Grow UP!

:postwhore screw you and your whole family! :postwhore

[mymint87]

Id be willing to bet that is the rarest of the rare right there. How much coinage you got into that badboy? More than the reserve on that auction I assume?

sorry...I had to pull it...i was having an anal attack

I'm glad some of you seen it...the thought of millions of flunkies like "edogdick" D/L my pic and ripping em off was more than I could take...LOL

I would safely say the motor alone has more than $13,000 in it:TrikesOwn

[Billy Golightly]

edog has been banned for trolling and instigating a fight and mymint87 has been banned for flaming, and personal attacks twice in a row. Enjoy the time off fellas.

[3leggeddog]

[QUOTE=chris200x]Id be willing to bet that is the rarest of the rare right there. QUOTE]


i'd be willing to bet howdy has the rarest of the rare.multiple nicks were built,but howdy has a sweet one of a kind.

my opion,those bikes are f-n ugly.thy look very old,and outdated,not like a well designed,ahead of it's time bike should look.they also don't look like they would handle well at all.jmo

[atcfreak85]

it's over in the EBAY forum
It's not over it has 3 days left type in nicholson 500 prototype and check the box to searsh titles and descriptions.

[chris200x]

edog has been banned for trolling and instigating a fight and mymint87 has been banned for flaming, and personal attacks twice in a row. Enjoy the time off fellas.

I'm surprised I'm still in here. :wondering :naughty: :w00t: :lol:

Holey smokes 3leg... I forgot about howdy's 110 :eek: That one from 3wheeling mag. That's a one-of-a-kind for sure. Maybe he should ebay that someday.

[firefirefire90]

Thats the blue one eh? I don't like the looks of the trike very much but the fact is not much in the looks to me, it is all of the detail and motor work done to it. That trike has balls! BIG ones at that. I didn't see much in the front end but who knows. Its different. All those body parts and engine would look perfect on a suspension 110 frame.

[3leggeddog]

yeah,howdy has to have one of the rarest machines.i highly doubt you'll ever see him ebay that thing.never know though.

hey fire.i respect the nicks for what they are,i just think they are ugly,neat,but fugly

[firefirefire90]

I agree with you, and that was the point I was trying to bring. I think they are really good examples of what triking was all about back in the day and how people thought was best for racing. I'm not downing anything but how wierd they looked. Maybe it was a fad or something....like the mustard yellow cars...Haha, what was up with that?

[Howdy]

I'm surprised I'm still in here. :wondering :naughty: :w00t: :lol:

Holey smokes 3leg... I forgot about howdy's 110 :eek: That one from 3wheeling mag. That's a one-of-a-kind for sure. Maybe he should ebay that someday.

It's not a 110 at all. It's actually a 1974 ATC90 that has been tricked out ( By 3Wheeling Mag in 1980 ). I have no intention of ever selling it. But if I would sell it, then it would be sold to a Long time 3WW member. My goal is to keep it a part of 3WW for ever.
Howdy

[chris200x]

Oops! My bad. I thought it was a 110. It has a bigger motor than a 90 correct? Not to much info around on this one neither.

Oh.. I was joking about you selling that one. I know that would never happen. Got some recent pics?

[Billy Golightly]

Hey Howdy I seen some pictures of that machine when it was still a pile of parts this afternoon :naughty:

[mymint87]

Id be willing to bet that is the rarest of the rare right there. How much coinage you got into that badboy? More than the reserve on that auction I assume?


Your right dude, it is the rarest of the rare (For a Nicholson)

[mymint87]

i'd be willing to bet howdy has the rarest of the rare.multiple nicks were built,but howdy has a sweet one of a kind.

I would consider howdy's a prototype and "One of a kind"...well documented and very rare

[Lomax]

I can kinda see how this could be the cause of a machines creation. Think about it like this, In around 2001-2002 The ATV sence was picking back up but it was still a slow go for a full on race machine. People started buying up YZF 426 dirt bikes and putting the engines in aftermarket frames and then a few years later the YFZ450 was out. Now I m not saying that the YFZ wasnt possibly (although unkown) already being tested but conversions and creations like that only fueled the fire. Prototype? maybe not quite, but the insperation for a prototype? Maybe even the kickin the ass the prototype needed to get out in the hands of the public? I think thats possible and very likley
-Will

[chris200x]

Your right dude, it is the rarest of the rare (For a Nicholson)

Hey flunkie... :lol: is there any kind of documentation or write ups about your nick?

[firefirefire90]

I would consider howdy's a prototype and "One of a kind"...well documented and very rare



I don't know about prototype...seing it was an ATC 90 with just a buncha aftermaret accessories. But where do you see any other trike like his? His is definitely special, by all means. :drool:

[ChrisD]

Peronally I think the "ChrisD prototype 250R" wins my vote. My timing of my racer was just off by 20 years. Seriously though.....I hear about this stuff, but am not impressed. Value is defined by the owner/seller/buyer. Personally, I want a fast bike that wins races. Purpose built bikes are rare in any circumstance. Is a Nicholson bike important because there was a guy that built aftermarket frames in the 1980's?...that's up to you. I stick with the rare Honda factory bikes/parts myself. Anyone of you guys could be a piece of history with the bikes I see on this board.

[edog]

ChrisD,that 250R in your avatar is sexy as hell!!!!!

[oldsking86]

I tend to think my bike is a piece of history for sure... Always seems to grab people attention just sitting still..

That's his Ice Racer, very nice bike too