ESR 310R Impressions...

[250rCRazed]

Well I just received my TRX9 310 from ESR, and the trike is definitely faster, but I have to admit I thought it'd be faster than it is. Here is a spec list on my trike:

86 250R
ESR 310 TRX9 Porting
38mm A/S 185 main jet (forget what pilot jet)
PT High Rev Pipe
FatBoy Silencer
Uni Filter in Lidless airbox
Stock 13/39 gearing (looking to change this)
Pyramid Reed Cage
Stock Ignition & B8ES plug

I raced my dads piped and jetted banshee on asphalt and beat him by maybe 2 quad lengths and if either of us are better drivers it's me. I've read on here that big bores like smaller main jets due to the difference in intake velocity... the plug chop seemed to look ok though so I'm not sure that's a problem. The bike hits hard in the mid range, but it seems the gears sign off a bit early and i'm forced to shift faster. I think the 250 liked to overrev a little more. In the dirt I was losing to my friends piped and jetted YFZ450, mainly in the first 3 gears. I think the combination of stock (low) gearing and stock length swing arm is killing my first 100 feet of every race. Also, sometimes the transition from being off the pipe, to on the pipe (getting into powerband), will result in a bog. I'm going to do a compression check within the next few days to make sure its where it should be, but any opinions or recommendations on anything would be greatly appreciated... I'm fairly new here and hoping to become a more frequent member.


http://www.hpcrazed.com/images/1111061255.jpg

[3leggeddog]

yeah,i'd say it's junk,you should sell it to me....cheap,LOL,LOL,LOL.


play with the jetting,and see if she wakes up a bit.your gearing is most likely a bit low aswell

[ChrisD]

Honda always had the gearing off a bit. I would go with a 14/36. That has seemed to be the best all around setup I've tried. I flat track with a 15/33 gearing and walk away from almost everyone. The motor pulls it, but I think it will run a little harder with a 14/33. The larger displacement should help you to turn higher gearing, thus making your bike faster. If anything, with the stock gearing the same as before, you may even be slower off the line because the larger piston will rev slower than the 250.

My ESR 330 runs a 175 main on a 40.5 PWK. My 270 motor runs a 190 even in the summer with a 39 PWK.

[gasmask34]

try the cr ignition system. get on ebay and find the cr 250 ignition system complete then order the backing plate from esr. you will notice the difference. but there is no lights on the cr 250 ign. system

[deathman53]

isn't a 185 alittle rich, I am using a 170 on my 310pv. I love my 310pv, it really rips, cr ingition, cr reeds, 39 pwk, pt hi-rev, it really moves. I have a +1 swingarm and it I can't keep the front wheel on the ground.

[nouseforaname90]

If you left your bike with the stock gearing, you are not going to notice a difference in speed. You will be able to reach your top speed faster, but your top speed will not change much at all. Getting the 310 kit means that you have more power to play with, which means you can gear up and in turn get a higher top speed. (Although when you gear up, your top speed will go up and your acceleration will go down.. maybe not very noticeably though.)

[ATCR250R]

I suggest trying the 14/36 gearing. Should really wake up all them horses waiting to rip!

[250rCRazed]

Thanks guys, I just ordered a 36 tooth rear along with a 14 and a 15 tooth front to experiment with. We're planning on doing a lot of ice racing this winter so I think the 15 tooth will be perfect for that. As for the 185 main jet, after reading what people posted about the jets they used mine did sound rich, although the plug chop I did looked pretty light tan. Maybe the plug was too new to get an accurate reading, I'll have to try it again. I'm really getting an earful from the pops about all this motor work I did just to barely beat his piped banshee. Before the 310R he barely beat me. I'm really looking into getting a +6 swinger, but I'm not sure I want to do that when I'll be riding on ice all winter.

[NOS_350X]

Switch to a b8eG plug

With the B8ES i couldnt do a second gear start on asphalt, With the EG it blows the tires off in second 3rd and 4th it chirps and goes.

The EG plug has a smaller electrode and is more of a race designed plug so its much better.

[hadar]

What octane fuel are you running? Your port job may require a higher grade of fuel. Just a thought.

[250rCRazed]

What octane fuel are you running? Your port job may require a higher grade of fuel. Just a thought.
Running 93 with an extra 4 oz. of octane boost in the mix. Now my dad's looking to put a ported big bore motor on his banshee... haha then what do I do?

[ATCR250R]

Nitrous, turbo, etc. :)

[502SS]

What octane fuel are you running? Your port job may require a higher grade of fuel. Just a thought.

How would porting affect what octane fuel you need?? Running higher octane fuel than actually needed will do nothing as far as making any more power.

[hadar]

How would porting affect what octane fuel you need?? Running higher octane fuel than actually needed will do nothing as far as making any more power.

I was not talking about making more power. I was referring to his bog problem. I'm sure that ESR does not recommend running 87 oct. IMO fuel is an important factor in performance. The porting will result in more fuel and air flow. Low octaine makes more heat and more flow = more heat. This can likely result in a bog or even worse problems. It looks like 250rcrazed is not running 87 so I don't know what the problem is. I would try a K&N air filter to see if that opens it up for more power.

[deathman53]

don't use a k&n without a prefilter, k&n's allow alot of dirt to pass through the filter. They increase flow, by being being less restrictive than stock. Learn the hard way like I did, use foam filters and if you use a k&n put a prefilter on it . I blew about 4 250r top ends due to not using a prefilter on the k&n fiters(thus the reasoning for me not using them much). I have a k&n on my xr250r w/ a prefilter and the rest of my bikes have foam filters with prefilters, I can clean the prefilter about twice before the actaul filter. Part of the reason for me getting dirty filters is that I don't use airbox lids, even more the reason to use a prefilter on the airfilter.

[502SS]

I was not talking about making more power. I was referring to his bog problem. I'm sure that ESR does not recommend running 87 oct. IMO fuel is an important factor in performance. The porting will result in more fuel and air flow. Low octaine makes more heat and more flow = more heat. This can likely result in a bog or even worse problems. It looks like 250rcrazed is not running 87 so I don't know what the problem is. I would try a K&N air filter to see if that opens it up for more power.
Why would cylinder port work result in more fuel flow? It's been a long time since I've had an R, and didn't really do much engine work on them when I did, so correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just not sure how porting a cylinder will increase fuel flow (given that you haven't changed anything in the carb before and after the port work)? Also (again, somebody correct me if this is wrong), I thought higher octane produced more heat than lower octane fuels, just at a slower burn rate (throw a match on 87 and on 110/higher and you'll see what I mean).
250rCRazed,
How are you reading your plugs? I've always been told to basically beat the piss out of it (whatever you're driving/riding) and shut it off immediately. This was suppose to give an accurate reading on a plug at WOT. I've always been told that idling/light driving back to pit/etc. will give you false readings. You can PM me if you want, but what kind of cost are some of you paying for these 300+ kits?

[oldsking86]

Switch to a b8eG plug

With the B8ES i couldnt do a second gear start on asphalt, With the EG it blows the tires off in second 3rd and 4th it chirps and goes.

The EG plug has a smaller electrode and is more of a race designed plug so its much better.

Does that plug really work well. My motor is farely stock except the pipe; I run b9es right now.. Would I notice a difference running the b8eg? what would I notice really?

[phil53]

oldsking,IMO, switching to a b8eg plug wouldn't change the performance all that much on a stock engine, you would have to rejet due to the hotter plug.

[oldsking86]

hmmm alright I was wondering what it would do, definetly hotter is a good thing... I might be rejetting it it just runs pretty well right now I think I would look into a bigger carb at the same time
Thanks for the insight phil53

[250rCRazed]

Why would cylinder port work result in more fuel flow? It's been a long time since I've had an R, and didn't really do much engine work on them when I did, so correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just not sure how porting a cylinder will increase fuel flow (given that you haven't changed anything in the carb before and after the port work)? Also (again, somebody correct me if this is wrong), I thought higher octane produced more heat than lower octane fuels, just at a slower burn rate (throw a match on 87 and on 110/higher and you'll see what I mean).
250rCRazed,
How are you reading your plugs? I've always been told to basically beat the piss out of it (whatever you're driving/riding) and shut it off immediately. This was suppose to give an accurate reading on a plug at WOT. I've always been told that idling/light driving back to pit/etc. will give you false readings. You can PM me if you want, but what kind of cost are some of you paying for these 300+ kits?

I did the plug chop after a WOT 1st-6th run and immediately killed the motor before even slowing down. The plug looked ok, but then again it was a brand new plug and only had maybe 5 minutes on it before doing the test... maybe it needed more use to give an accurate color

[hadar]

Why would cylinder port work result in more fuel flow? It's been a long time since I've had an R, and didn't really do much engine work on them when I did, so correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just not sure how porting a cylinder will increase fuel flow (given that you haven't changed anything in the carb before and after the port work)? Also (again, somebody correct me if this is wrong), I thought higher octane produced more heat than lower octane fuels, just at a slower burn rate (throw a match on 87 and on 110/higher and you'll see what I mean).


Q: What does porting do?

A: It reduces the restriction in the engine's intake and exhaust tracts. Reduce that restriction and you let more air into the cylinder. If you have more air, you can add more fuel. The result is increased horsepower.

If fuel octane is too low for a given compression ratio, the fuel prematurely and spontaneously ignites too early and the fuel charge EXPLODES rather than BURNS resulting in incomplete combustion. The effect is a loss in power and possible engine damage. This is known as detonation. Detonation is a form of abnormal combustion that results from too much heat and pressure in the combustion chamber. The fuel ignites spontaneously causing a sudden rise in cylinder pressure When this happens you hear a knocking or pinging sound.

[Jason Hall]

The first thing you need to find out Is the size of the dome In the cylinder head. If you have a small dome It will need more octane like 110 & no less. If you try to run 87 octane gas with a race gas dome It will run horrable. I ran my 310 out of gas once on the Ice & used some of my buddy's 93 with 104 octane boost & It would not rev out.

Porting makes the air cut through the cylinder much better. It can also help break the air & fuel down If you slightly rough up the Intake. Resulting In much quicker throttle response. You should notice a huge change In top end horsepower with the Pro-X jug compared to the stocker.

[Yamahondaman]

Tell em Jason !!!! i dunno what to say .... ask Billy what his 265 is going to do to the Banshee's "ON THE ROAD" !! :naughty:

[Jason Hall]

Hey billy, what's your 265 gunna do to those Banshee's on the road :wondering Probly gunna tear Em up :beer

[oldsking86]

hellz yea on the street is where those with swingers will succeed and those who are without will see the sky :w00t:

[Yamahondaman]

iv'e done the or " re-done" the Curtis Spark's 265's... they GO !!
out the "Hole" S T R E T C H E D is the way to go but.............if you spin TOO Much
the guy with the "experienced" (short bike) Clutch Hand will get ya !!

[Jason Hall]

I hear that, A little clutchin & a +6 swinger work's for me.

[oldsking86]

+12 and my weight on the back does the trick for me; ain't lost on the street yet:beer

[Yamahondaman]

HUMMMMM we need to check em on the road in Hernando on the 2nd. week of Dec. !!! i run 8 flat in the 1/8th with a 1.75 60 ft. @ 78 mph.

[oldsking86]

Haha hmmm I've never had mine timed before but I know it ain't that fast; she's just a stocker ;) But to the street I'm down for that!!

[Yamahondaman]

My freind with the 12" Stretch like your's will be there ,,, HE'S FAST !!!
He has the "87" TRX Cyl. on his "85" ATC along with the 39PWK...it's WICKED !

[oldsking86]

Not to shabby at all it's good to see 3 wheelers out there like ours and even badder!! I'm just trying to come across some paddles if not I'll have to hit the pavement then :p

[Yamahondaman]

HUMMMMM ... Iv'e got LOTS of Spares but they fit TRI-Z and Banshee...
the Cheapest Paddle Prices i have found was from PROWLER

[oldsking86]

Well I do have a set of 9" wheels... you have a set of 22" paddles that you could get rid of in good condition and for a reasonable price?

[ChrisD]

I have a set of Skat Trak Hauler 20x10x10-10 paddle for $150 (plus shipping) if you want them. The tires are like new, the rims are dull on the inside from the sand, but I have only used them for 2 - 1 week trips to the dunes. I can send you pics of them if you send me your email.

[oldsking86]

I have a set of Skat Trak Hauler 20x10x10-10 paddle for $150 (plus shipping) if you want them. The tires are like new, the rims are dull on the inside from the sand, but I have only used them for 2 - 1 week trips to the dunes. I can send you pics of them if you send me your email.

Yea send me some pics man... lilcuban38@yahoo.com

[502SS]

Q: What does porting do?

A: It reduces the restriction in the engine's intake and exhaust tracts. Reduce that restriction and you let more air into the cylinder. If you have more air, you can add more fuel. The result is increased horsepower.

If fuel octane is too low for a given compression ratio, the fuel prematurely and spontaneously ignites too early and the fuel charge EXPLODES rather than BURNS resulting in incomplete combustion. The effect is a loss in power and possible engine damage. This is known as detonation. Detonation is a form of abnormal combustion that results from too much heat and pressure in the combustion chamber. The fuel ignites spontaneously causing a sudden rise in cylinder pressure When this happens you hear a knocking or pinging sound.

Yes, but.... you said the porting alone will cause more fuel flow ;)
The point was, if your particular motor does not require high octane fuel, DON'T run it. I'm sure most everybody here is well aware of what detonation is ;)
On a side note, if anybody mixes gas (premium+110, or any other mixture), I have a little Excel sheet that will calculate what octane rating your mixture is going to provide. You just factor in the octane rating of both fuels you're using, how many gallons of each, and this will calculate the ending octane rating. If interested, just PM me with an email I can send it to.

[Pete]

I'd like to try the pavement sometime. I have these pics on my hard drive of a trike built by a guy in Florida who built an engine for me, its too bad I've lost contact with him in the last few years.... I believe it took out its share of Banshee's and other bikes :D

The ESR 310 should run pretty decent. If you still can't get out of it what you'd like, I'd try a different pipe. Yes, the PT is well known to work well on a stock cylinder, but that doesn't always carry over to aftermarket cylinders.

I would definitely check compression. Honestly, if the 310 is setup to run pump fuel, it won't be the scary fast motor you are expecting. Put some compression into it with some good fuel and up the port timings a bit, and it will scream.

I would also recommend doing a leakdown test on the motor. If it is leaking air that could certainly be affecting performance as well.

[Jason Hall]

Wow I bet that baby run's :pics: That Is what you call direct Injection :beer

[250rCRazed]

The ESR 310 should run pretty decent. If you still can't get out of it what you'd like, I'd try a different pipe. Yes, the PT is well known to work well on a stock cylinder, but that doesn't always carry over to aftermarket cylinders.

I would definitely check compression. Honestly, if the 310 is setup to run pump fuel, it won't be the scary fast motor you are expecting. Put some compression into it with some good fuel and up the port timings a bit, and it will scream.

I would also recommend doing a leakdown test on the motor. If it is leaking air that could certainly be affecting performance as well.

Ran a compression test tonight.... got 170psi both times, but it took about 4-5 kicks each time to get it there. The bike is breaking up under WOT in 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd, then 4th 5th and 6th clear out nicely and pull pretty hard. 4th and 5th will stand right up on me while 3rd hardly ever does :confused: I changed my main jet from a 185 to a 180, and the plug chop came out pretty damn white, so I'm going to put the 185 back in there and maybe try playing with the air screw and pilot circuit. To whoever recommended the B8EG, I put one in and didn't notice a difference, nor did I notice any difference with the K&N I just put in.

[NOS_350X]

AT 170 psi its important to run race gas.

Also you might want to try diffrent needles, Doc86R had a hell of a time getting his 38mm airstryker (from esr) running right, turned out he started swtiching needles and fianly got it dialed in.

I was the one that recommended a B8EG, and that really suprizes me you didnt notice a diffrence, BUT i gess every bike is diffrent. I just know on my banshee its a night and day diffrence.

[Pete]

if the bike is 'breaking up' it sounds like the mainjet is too rich. It's hard to determine sounds while on a computer, but if it sounds like the bike is running out of fuel, its lean, if its burbling and smoking its too rich. I would try a 172 or 175 main and see if its better. If its not, try a 190. Whichever way works you can dial in more from there.

The reason the bike runs ok in 4th and 5th is because there is more load and heat in the engine in these gears which makes it easier to burn off excess fuel. I'm betting you're too rich.

[jenndnn3]

I would also interject something as well. One thing to remember, is the actual carb size. A 34 mm will only allow so much air versus a 38 mm. These in turn will change what size jets you need to the air mixture itself. So on a 38 mm your running, you may need that jet the 185 because you have that much air, but the engine may be saying hey dude, way to much, or not enough. You mentioned velocity from the beginning.

[deathman53]

I use a 170 on my atc250r, 310pv, 39pwk, cr igniton, pt hi-rev, and cr reeds. Strangely, I have a 178 in a stock ported clyinder w/ cr igntion, 38 a/s, esr atc 5, v-force reeds. I think the needle has a part with that too. I recently sold that 38 a/s to a friend of mine, he is using a 150 and he is running rich, I know that carb had a rich needle.

[Red Rider]

I use a 170 on my atc250r, 310pv, 39pwk, cr igniton, pt hi-rev, and cr reeds. Strangely, I have a 178 in a stock ported clyinder w/ cr igntion, 38 a/s, esr atc 5, v-force reeds. I think the needle has a part with that too. I recently sold that 38 a/s to a friend of mine, he is using a 150 and he is running rich, I know that carb had a rich needle.Keep in mind that jet sizes aren't always what they say they are. I don't know if these are brand new jets you're all using, but I've seen several instances where someone has drilled out a jet to make it a bigger size. Talk about jetting frustration when one of those is thrown into the mix. :(

[250rCRazed]

Well, I'm using all brand new jets, and I went from the 14/39 gearing that was in there to 15/36 gearing and I think it def. helped a little in the 1st 3 gears... as far as the breaking up in 1st-3rd was concerned, I opened the air screw up about 1 1/2 extra turns which probably means my pilot is too big, but it made the bike clear out in those 1st 3 gears and also when I rev it in neutral now it revs cleaner. The 185 main jet seems to be the right jet, not sure why I have to use a 185 when you guys are using 170's with similar setup but who knows. Its been about 50 degrees here though, at very low elevation, and I'm mixing at 32:1... those could all effect that I guess. Ran my buddy's HMF Piped YFZ450 on pavement and gave him about a 50 foot head start, and by about 4th or 5th gear I passed him pretty hard. I'm also running 18" tires in back. BTW do you guys think that an ignition setup would really help much? Or would I just notice mainly a more responsiveness. I dont want to run the CR setup because I like having my lights.

[deathman53]

I am using new jets. As for the ignition, Ricky Stator sells a lightened flywheel, its something like 200 grams lighter than the stock one is. I also thing they use a 88/89 flywheel as a mold that the timing is advanced 2 degrees. Also you can put a different counter balance holder that has a dial to advance/retard the timing about 4 degrees each way. More power is to be had from a very advanced timing, but race gas is kinda needed then. Retarding the timing makes the motor lazy, but very tractable in slippery conditions. If you are using a 86 wire harness you can get a trx250r aftermarket box, that might help some too.

[Pete]

I don't think its your ignition. You're undergeared running 14/39 with 18 inch tires. I would gear up to 15/39 or even 15/37 using the small tires.

Dave Moore does flywheel lightening at a very reasonable price. He can also alter the pickup on the flywheel to advance the timing more than you could get with just running a stand alone timing advancer.

http://www.DaveMooreRacing.com

[max]

Great oldy thread with a lot of well respected and missed members. I just got the Esr 310 pv kit
Esr reeds/complete pipe
38as carb 185 main
Uni in airbox with drilled lid
Seems to be close during break in thus far. Will update after!!
13-39 gear to steep. Stepping up to 14 in front. Currently have 18" tires.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Yeah, I would say stock gearing really takes the legs away from it with 18" tires.

I'm running stock gearing with my 350, but with 20" tires. Seems to have alot all over. But I am considering bumping up to a 14t on the countershaft....

[max]

Yeah, I would say stock gearing really takes the legs away from it with 18" tires.

I'm running stock gearing with my 350, but with 20" tires. Seems to have alot all over. But I am considering bumping up to a 14t on the countershaft....

Yea ridered. I think you'll get a noticeable difference more. Shouldn't even have to mess with chain!!