still having trouble with my 250r

[3leggeddog]

well it's been hell trying to figure out what is going on with this bike.i have jetted,and rejetted,tried diffrent gases,and oil's.and still the same results.

it feels pretty good down low,but the midrange and top end feel dirty.it breaks up,and falls flat.i jetted it today,everything from a 170,to a 185 main,and 40 to 50 pilots.got the low end feelin good,but up top....BLAHHH.

any ideas on the issue would be great.right now i am running 110 octane,with amsoil mixed at 50-1.i split the 110,with 94 50/50.

could this be jetting,or is there maybe another problem?this is the 3rd top end i have installed this year!!!!the first 2 where torched by blown head gaskets.

maybe i should just put this brand new take off cylinder on it,and see what happens!!??

i have seriously considered selling the old girl.any seriuos offers will be entertained.this bike has the best of everything on it.

[3leggeddog]

replaced the left side.if the right side was bad wouldn't it pull oil through?

you may be onto something john.it seems to spit a little oil out of the exhaust,onto the grab bar and number plate.hard to say if it's premix,or crankcase oil.maybe i should replace the right side!!!

[3leggeddog]

thanks john,i think you may be onto something.if the right side seal is leaking,it would pull oil into the crankcase,and burn it.i think that would cause it run crappy.

i will replace that seal anyway.atleast for peace of mind.

[ChrisD]

Have you tested your stator? Have you checked all of your connections, including the spark plug boot to make sure everything is clean and connected solid?

Bad stators and misconnected wiring are common problems.


By the way...oil coming out of the tail pipe is common...too rich.


Why are you running 110? Did you shave the cylinder head? What is your compression? Anything under 200lbs wont need it and your bike will run stronger. Most people think that the higher the octane, the higher the performance....not true. The fuel burns slower (higher flash point), thus cooler, preventing high compression motors from melting down.


Trust me, if your crank seals go, you'll know it. Either your bike will blow a ton of smoke from trans oil or your stator will have oil inside the cover. Easy to check.

[nate b]

what is your plug gapped at, and how did it look for color while jetting it.

[Air-cooled-R]

If it is jetting, have you considered a dial-a-jet?

[DeePa]

sometimes condensation builds up underneath the stator cover. Pull it off and see if theres any water in there. It can make *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* jump all around.

just check it out, its only a few bolts to pull and the cover comes off easy

[Erics350x]

Have you checked your reeds?

[3leggeddog]

all right.so i did a compression check,and it's 175.i knew that before i bought the 110 octane,but wanted to see if that helped.

the plug is gapped at 50,and was a cardboard brown color
my reeds are almost brand new v-force.


i need to go over all the conections again.

well over the winter i replaced the stator side crankcase seal,put in a new counter balncer,and bearing/stator holder ass.
we had the jug ported,and i put on the new cool head.

first topend it blew a head gasket,roached the cylinder.so i bored it,thinking it was just a bad gasket,and flatened the head(so i thought)

well next top end it blew the head gasket or something and got hot and blew the water inlet port out of the top of the head.so i determined the head was warped.bought new rings,and the cool head,tried a different stlye of gasket.

now it acts the same as it did with the blown head gasket.just won't rev.
right now i got the needle all the way lean,a 42 pilot,and a 170 main.
it feels good down low,but surges up top.

with the a bigger main it feels real dirty,like a fouled plug.

last year i ran a 172,a 50,and the needle in the middle.

is it possible for the bike to need less fuel now that it has been ported,doesn't seem right to me.

also it is blowing water out of the hole under the waiter pump,what does that mean?compression in the cooling system?another blown head gasket.i'm so damn frustrated/confused with this thing right now.could it be the 2 base gaskets throwin off the port timing?

my uncle derrick has the same port,by the same guy,and practically the same motor,just less bore,and his bike f-n rips!!!!!!i mean the same pipe,reeds,but different carb.Wtf!!??????

well i hope this gives a bit more insight to my troubles,thanks for the help,and suggestions!!

[crackshot]

That hole on bottom of water pump is an indicator that water pump seal is bad.

[85hondaatc125m]

Could it be too high of ocatane? I am only using 87 Octane on my trike and quad, just a guess.

[3leggeddog]

i was running 94 before.and just switched to the high octane this weekend to see if it helped


well i got a water pump seal in my stash,guess i need to change it

[MTS]

Your Getting a stedy Flow of fuel from your Petcock? and did you check to make sure the cap vent isnt pluged....both can cause Bad surging on top end.....Just something to check.

[3leggeddog]

well i am not sure about fuel flow.i did add a second shut off valve because the stock petcock was leaking when shut off.maybe i should take the second shut off out and see waht happens!!!

thanks thats a very good idea

[max]

Dude that is way do much. I think spec is around 28. Atleast in my books. Id bet a decent dollar that that is effecting the top end, .....too much gap my friend.
Gap your plug at 28-32 and try it.

Lower that clip one position too!!!!

And call a brother will ya!

[3leggeddog]

put a properly gapped plug in,same issue!!!

gonna drop to a 160 main,and see if that helps,or i am gonna melt the top end in the process

[atcsteve]

Taking a wild guess,but pull your silencer off,and try it!They do get plugged,and its happened to me!Also the timing plate may have a small crack.Anyway good luck!!

[3leggeddog]

brand new timing plate.i changed it this winter.could that be turned,it only seemed to fit one way.

also i repacked the silencer this winter,maybe the inner perferated tube is not correct and blocking the hole?it seems possible!!good idea,thank you i will pull it off tomorow,and really piss my neighbors off!!!

[Somekindofjerk]

It may be pulling air through the intake system or the exhaust pipe may be full of fuel/oil. Try taking the pipe off and tillting it around to see if anything comes off, and check all your intake gaskets/o-rings. Allso, is your airbox on with a good air filter?

**edit** choke sticking?

[3leggeddog]

open air filter,good k-n filter,oiled,and clean.

i got brand new intake gaskets.that was my first thought too.

[Somekindofjerk]

Hows your timing? If its even a little off it will idle smoothly but wont rev out without missing or a week fire.

[3leggeddog]

how could i have it off?

maybe i need to go over all the connections again,test the stator,and buy 10 more plugs,lol.

[Somekindofjerk]

On the stator are 2 bolts, loosen them a little and rotate the stator just a little forward to retard, and backwards to advance your timing. Best thing to do would be to get your piston at TDC and line up the timing marks on the stator, and flywheel.

[MyMistress86R]

Just sell it to me B...I got a 50 spot reserved for when you get truly frustrated...lol.

[3leggeddog]

no amount of frustration will take away from the value my friend.!!!!

sorry,add 3950 to it and we got a deal!!

[Somekindofjerk]

Did you check your timing and see if your choke was stuck on? what collor is your plug by the way?

[PWK39]

i had a cr125 do that it had a bad cdi box . do you have a spare you could swap out?

[3leggeddog]

i looked for my spare cdi,no luck,musta sold it,stupid me!!!

the plug looked great,a light cardboard color brown.i did check the timing,it's good.i checked the whole electrical system.the whole concern is the coil readings.the primary was good,but the secondary gave no reading at all.whats up with that?

also i pulled the pipe.i can see the cylinder walls have rust on them!!?another blown head gasket,or left over water in the bottom end from the previuos blown gasket?also there was a large puddle of oil at the base of the exhaust port.i'm at a loss with this thing.

o,and there was a little water in the stator cover.not antifreeze,just water.alos the flywheel had a small spot of rust on the conducter/firing thing.

[Somekindofjerk]

yeah, condensation collects in the stator flywheel area on the 250R's. Try advancing your timing just a hair or two and see if you get a more desireable run.

[3leggeddog]

what about the rust on the cylinder walls,that has me very concerned!!

also,the coil,maybe it's not givin enough spark on top end?

[Somekindofjerk]

How bad is the rust? like a little mist or a brown blanket? As long as your spark is blue and flat your good to go, if its orange no go

[3leggeddog]

the rust is light around the sides,but theres a big spot by the intake.also,it seems that i can turn the motor over,and the oil pushes the rust around.know what i mean?

[Somekindofjerk]

If there is a big spot by the intake you probably had water in your fuel. That could expalin its crappy running also. Did it smoke really bad?

[3leggeddog]

no it really hardly smoked.thats why i can't belive it would be rich,but thats how it acts.chug,a lug chug alug.you know.

[Somekindofjerk]

If i were you i would tear down the topend and clean the rust out then buy a new tank of fuel, seafoam, and a good oil(Klotz or amsoil) and mix it 32 or 38:1. It sounds like you had water in your fuel.

[3leggeddog]

it was new fuel,110 i just bought from the shop fri.

thats a good possiblilty,but it has done this 3 times now.this is the 3rd top end,with the same issue.2 new pistons,and 3 sets of rings.it doesn't seem likely that it was water in the fuel.if the head gasket was leaking,it would be worse then just a little water right?

thanks for all the help by the way:beer :beer ;)

[Somekindofjerk]

Depends on how bad it blew out. it could of blown out just a little bit of the gasket. What are you torqueing the headbolts to? how much compression are you getting? will it hold the compression or leak it out>?

[3leggeddog]

compression holds good,175 pounds.i tourqe the head bolts to spec,run it through a warm up cycle,and retourqe to 17-21 ft.#'s

[Somekindofjerk]

with they high comp you might want to bump the tourque up to 35 or 40 ftlbs

[3leggeddog]

good idea.isn't stock compression 170 though?thats what i thought,i amy need to look that up!!

[Somekindofjerk]

i torque all my headbolts to 40ftlbs first, run em a bit then retorque to 45ftlbs after that. It works well and i havnt had any problems1

[3leggeddog]

i will take your advice,and do that.thanks.


maybe thats where the water got in?but the coolant level has not gone down a bit.if it was losing water,certainly it would show

[Somekindofjerk]

Probably condensation from running. Humidity and what not. But it would make more sence that theere was water in your fuel...

[3leggeddog]

yeah thats true,or maybe left over in the crankcase from the last blown head gasket.

[Somekindofjerk]

Maybe, but either way be sure to change your fuel and make sure the crank is dry when you reassemble it! lol

[BigGreenMachine]

Still sounds like electrical to me. I had the same problem and it was the coils on the stator plate.

[SpeedBump]

Yo B, get Derricks new 39 PWK, toss it on and give it a whirl. That will at least rule out fuel issues. As for the rust and water....yep, get it all cleaned out. I know that carb you have is a new take off, but try the PWK anyway. Also runnig you mix @ 32 or 40:1 will lean it out a bit. May help too.

[phil53]

depending on the ohm-meter and scale used, the secondary might not of shown a reading, if it runs it is good though.
have you done a leak down test lately? that will definitely tell you if there is a crank seal is leaking.
175 psi only needs 93 octane. i am with everyone else on fresh gas. i recommend taking the tank off and completely draining it.
is the engine/ cooling system running hot? i use a ESR temp gauge mounted between my two radiators in the crossover hose, I can look down thru the left shroud and check the temp.
do you have a good ground connection? it is in the back of the frame on the left hand side by the voltage regulator. my 350x had to have a ground wire from the frame to the engine for good spark.
probably have to re-jet for pump gas. usually leaner.
i run 2 base gaskets ( $15 port job) with no problems and 200# of compression. it REALLY pulls up top. half pump 93 and half vp c12(108) at 40:1. sea level

good luck

[Xowner]

did you ever get this figured out?

[3leggeddog]

ahhhh yes.well lets start by saying if there was a award at TF for dumbarse of the year,i would win!!!!

so i dropped the r off at jason halls house fri night around 9pm,by the way it's a 3 hour drive there.

so he called sat. morning and said it was fixed!!!!!!!great news.well it seems that some how,while my bike was tore down all winter i mixed up the cdi boxs.

some how,some way,i had put a 350x cdi on there,and it RAN!!!!!it ran like crapmbut it still ran.so it would appear that i am either a retard,or a dumbarse,either way it rips now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks to everyone who posted ideas,and advice for me!!!!!sorry my stupidity caused you sore fingers from typing 30 different reasons why it was acting up!!!,LOL

[Somekindofjerk]

what did you end up doing about the rust? did yotu put new fuel in it?>

[3leggeddog]

nope,i had just bought that fuel.i think the rust came from the bike sitting without the pipe on it,or something,not sure how it got in there.

[Xowner]

well atleast it wasnt something costly.....wait 3 hour drive with gas the way it is . lol glad to hear its running good now