250sx NOT STARTING!!!

[SPECK]

Ok, so I have been riding it lately and it has been working fine. I put a new air filter (kind of homemade) in it, drained the oil and put new oil in it.

So yesterday I go out to the garage, pull it outside and go to start it....

1 kick, 2 kick, 3 kick, 15 kicks, etc...so it is not starting. After a few more kicks it backfires.

I let it sit for a few hours and went back, same thing. The neutral light is lighting up, it sounds like it is turning over and etc.

So today I go out, same thing. I pull out the spark plug, that works fine.

I do not know much about engines/cars/atvs, just what I have seen my neighbor do I have kind of remembered.

HELP ME

[Dirtcrasher]

You gotta get yourself a Clymer manual or copy an OEM one and then join the fun. Spark? Compression? Fuel? and all at the right time?? Good luck...

[SPECK]

You gotta get yourself a Clymer manual or copy an OEM one and then join the fun. Spark? Compression? Fuel? and all at the right time?? Good luck...

I honestly do not understand what you just said, lol.

Lamens terms please..lol

[firefirefire90]

For any internal combustion engine to run, you need a few things to work hand in hand. You need Spark(iginition), Compression(piston), Fuel(Carb), Air(also carb), and timing(valves/Cam). If you do not have fuel, the trike will not start, if you CDI or your pulse copacitator discharge unit does not work, your trike will not work. If your strator is not working, your trike will not work. You say the starter light is on, so therefore i guess the battery is fine and your starter is fine. What i suggest you do right now is take the sparkplug out, but still attached to the spark plug lead and crank the motor a few times. Have the spark plug close to a piece of metal and if it sparks a nice fat blue spark you are good, if not you need to get a new plug then try again, if same thing percists come back and tell us all. Next thing, timing. Your valves in conjunction with your camshaft work together so when your pistion is at TDC(top dead center) you have highest compression so your fuel/air and spark work together to create power. When your intake valve is down, air comes in to mix with fuel and spark to ignite and make the piston go down. The exhaust valve then shoots down and collects the exhaust gasses to spew them out the exhaust. Also, you say your plug is wet so that is a good sign..this means you are getting fuel from your carb. Go on www.amazon.com and buy a Clymer manual for Honda ATC 250sx or whatever year you have. Understand this all now? Good luck mate!!:TrikesOwn

[Tri-ZNate]

Ok take the spark plug out and see if it is wet. If it is your getting fuel. Then have someone hold the spark plug, if ya get zapped ya have spark. Lastly have someone hold their finger on the spark plug hole and kick it over. If their finger gets pushed off you have compression. Report back.

[firefirefire90]

just for an example...this is how a two stroke works..: http://www.rexkarz.com/ridepix/twostrokec.gif

If that is any help...thanks to Mike at RexKarz.com for the pic
EDIT: this is exactly how the engine works except without the valves and a 2 stroke uses reed induction..the reed acts as the intake valve...sorta.

[SPECK]

Ok, so I AM NOT GETTING FUEL. The spark plug was not wet, I didn't mean to type that.

I am going to try to do the "tablespoon of gas, then screw sparkplug back in and kick it" thing to see if it is the fact that I am not getting gas that is making it not start.

I am also going to try to put it on 100% choke and try to start it.

I just talked to someone on the phone and they said to do this.

If I was not getting gas, which it is looking that way, what would be stopping me from getting the gas and how would I fix it?

Thanks guys

[ClayW]

Squirt some starting fluid in the carb directly and see if it fires off for a few seconds. If it does your likely not getting fuel. Take the little bowl off the bottom of the petcock/fuel valve. Its prob full of rust. Clean it out, put it back on and try it again. That is a common problem. My 87 SX wouldnt crank. That was the culpret.

[Tri-ZNate]

I know this sounds crazy but your gas is on and you have gas in the tank right?

[SPECK]

Yes my gas is on, gas in the tank, the gas cap's "GAS" is on, etc...

I don't understand how to take off the piece you said though Clay.

Where is the fuel valve/what is it, what does it look like? And how big is the bowl piece?

More info. on the please Clay. lol

Slowly we are closing in on the problem.

Thanks tons guys

[Tri-ZNate]

the petcock is the thing you turn to either turn off the gas, turn it on or turn to reserve. The bottom has a bowl that screws in, just unscrew the bottom with some vice grips and clean out the little screen in there. If thats clean time to get into the carb.

[ClayW]

Its the little valve that screws on to the bottom of the tank that has the little ear that you can turn to where it says ON/OFF. This cuts the fuel off. On the bottom of that is a rounded looking bowl. ON the very bottom center of that bowl is a nut looking head. Unscrew that badboy and see if its nasty in the bowl and look up at the pet cock valve and see how it looks. You may have to turn it to the off position and spray some carb cleaner in there then turn the fuel on and let it pour out. THen put the clean cap on and try it. Oh yeah, make sure that you didnt hit the kill switch on the handlebar. I never use that on my ES. One day a kid moved it to the off position. It took me about a hour and a half to figure it out. I had checked the world. Pulled the starter out and everything. LOL.

[SPECK]

I will go try all of this:

-Clean "bowl"
-TBSP of gas into carb.
-Full choke start

Then I'll report back....

[ClayW]

Let us know bro.

[SPECK]

Ok, so after I put the gas directly into the carb, it began rumbling a bit more/louder. I also tried it with full choke which didn't seem to do anything really.

I tried taking the bolt off n the bottom of the On/Off/Reserve knob, but when I turn the bolt, the whole assembly turns....

So I am guessing that it is not getting gas, which would mean.....

What could be wrong?

[ClayW]

Put a wrench on the nut that threads it onto the tank. Tighten it. now keep the wrench on it for back up, to keep it from spinning. Now put another wrench on the bowl and take it off. it should break free and un thread.

[firefirefire90]

Ok take your carb off completely. Take it all apart, clean everything with carb cleaner, then put it back together according to specs. Talk to DeePa about an online manual that you could refer back to. If not, get carb cleaner and just spray the hell outa the carb. This should loosen everything up. Bolt the sucker back to the engine and hook up your fuel lines. A problem might be that your petc0ck might be clogged up so check that. Another problem might be that your gas cap might be plugged so take that off and try to start it without it. Good Luck

[SPECK]

I was thinking buy a can of carb. cleaner. I don't know anything about this situation so tell me if I am wrong to do that.

[firefirefire90]

Clay...should he not emty the tank before doing this? If he does it all the gas will poop out?

EDIT: Use B12 Chemtool. This worked perfectly for me for carb cleaning.

[ClayW]

Not if the valve is in the off position off. I would try the petcock valve first.

[SPECK]

I know nothing about engines, so taking my carb. apart may be a bad idea. How is carb. cleaner applied? Anything need to be taken apart/off?

And I will try once again to remove the "petcock"
Also I will try the gas cap thing.

[ClayW]

If thats the case, you should definately pull it as a last resort.

[SPECK]

DO you need to take anything apart to use carb-cleaner?

[ClayW]

Ok im on a computer where I can type fast now. I was using a tablet PC. Anyway. Did it run before and just start having this problem. If so its rust from the tank guarenteed. Especially if it fired off with a shot of gas directly in the carb. Choke isnt going to make much of a difference at this point. Clean that pet cock out. Hold a wrench on the upper part for back up. TUrn the valve off, and put a pair of channel locks on the bowl and unscrew it. Its likely full of rust, which will not allow enough or any gas to get to the carb. Hell take the fuel line loose from the pet cock and turn the fuel valve on. See if gas comes out. That will tell you something too. Clogged or not. Hope this helps. Dont yank the carb unless you have too. Its very time consuming to say the least and you need to have an idea of what your doing.

[firefirefire90]

just open the valve on the carb and spray it in
then open the little hole on the bottom to let it all out. No fuel=carb/tank

[Tri-ZNate]

If you end up having to check the carb you wont have any trouble. Very straight forward. If you need help we are always here.

[Erics350x]

try removing the fuel hose from the on\off valve. then turn on the gas. if gas comes out you will know its the carb and not the valve/petcock. if it doesnt take the vavle off and clean it out.

[SPECK]

I called my father, the original owner of this trike.

He said:

Pull off the line from the petcock and then turn the petcock to the ON position and if fuel comes out then that is not clogged. If it does not come out, then take off the bowl underneath and clean it.

If the petcock isn't the problem, do this:

Buy carb cleaner. Remove the same line as above, spray it into that line. Hook the line back up and kick-start it 2-3 times then let it sit for 15 minutes.


He said it is 1 of these 2 problems he can almost guaruntee.

Thanks again for your help guys and I will report to you again tommorow. It is 11:20 PM here in The Great Northern Michigan so I am done for the night.

Dave

[SPECK]

Ok, so I purchased the GUM-OUT carb. cleaner and will apply that AFTER I try the petcock, I just got back from town and am now able to do it.

We'll see how it goes.

[nouseforaname90]

How much gas is in your tank? I had the same problem you did, and I could not figure out why it wasn't starting. I shook the bike, and gas sloshed in the tank, so I figured that it was not a "low/no gas" problem. Checked everything I could.. no go. I was stumped. Finally, on a whim, I decided to turn the petcock to "Reserve" and see what happened. Well.. she started right up after that. So even if it seems like there is gas in your tank.. there may not be enough to go into the tube on the petcock.
Put some more gas in the tank before you do anything else.. sometimes the simplest things are the most overlooked.

[SPECK]

I pulled the hose off and turned on the gas and it flowed out of the petcock very fast and steady. So it is not the tank, petcock, gas cap, or anything related to that.

I then took the carb cleaner and sprayed it down the hose that goes from the petcock to the carb and kicked it a few times. I was told to do this by experienced people, so I am assuming it is correct.

So I am waiting 15 mins, then going to try and start it.

In the meantime I am taking a shower to get the stuff off of me.

[SPECK]

Ok...so I go out and kick it like 10 times and it doesn't start...

This is after the carb. cleaner has had about 45 mins to sit.

I am not sure what to do now..I guess I will try again and maybe use carb. cleaner again too.

Suggestions? Comments? Questions? HELP?!?!?

Dave...(the trike-less man...:()

[Tri-ZNate]

I really doubt using carb cleaner like that will do anything. What you have to do is take the carb off and clean it. Plain and simple. Its very straight forward when you do it. Just make sure you tilt it and pull it out the exhaust side.

[Dirtcrasher]

Carb cleaner doesn't work when just sprayed inside the carb. The real intention is to remove the carb and entirely disassemble every single piece then cleaning everything spotless and reassembling it. I can say that sometimes it does help and it is worth a shot to merely spray it in there and if you don't know how to take everything apart, your hands are tied. The SX carb is not only a hard carb to get apart but it has a few more pieces than your average carburetor. Even reinstalling it can be a huge pain, the back rubber boot is very uncooperative and if that boot falls off the airbox or carb then your motor will be breathing dirt.

[SPECK]

Well I think I will just have my father/someone who knows what they are doing take a look.

I kindof made my own airfilter, I wrapped foam (pretty thick) around the old metal filter part. I then held the foam on with rubber bands. I just thought I would throw that out there. Don't think it has anything to do with it though.


Thanks guys

Dave

[Dirtcrasher]

Making your own air filter is a very bad thing. Do you realize that for every drop of air that comes out your exhaust a similar amount is pulled through that air filter you made?? Any imperfections that allow dirt inside will clog your carburetor and then ruin your motor. Spend the 20$ and get the right filter. Clean oil, fuel and air are all necessary for a long lasting motor.

[SPECK]

Really? I had no idea, I should probably buy one then.

[SPECK]

Ok, I bought a new air-filter on eBay.

I just went out and kicked it a few times, nothing...


This is very frustrating.

[SPECK]

Well I don't have any starter fluid right now, but my neighbor will be home tonight, within the next 2 hours, and he knows a TON about this.

The only reason I haven't asked him and his son is because they left the day my 3-wheeler stopped working. The night before they left we were riding it a ton, then it stopped when they left.

Hopefully he can fix it....

Dave

[SPECK]

My neighbor is having the same problem with their 185s and once he finds out, which should be very soon, he is going to fix mine.

I hope this ends soon, very frusterating when we finally get 70 degree weather, she dies.

Dave

[SPECK]

HOLY MOLY SHE RUNS!!!

I went out to the garage and kicked it and heard a rumble....could it be..

So I pulled it out and after about 20 kicks..."vroommmmmmm..vroooommm...YES!"

Thanks for all of your help guys, I guess I just had to let the carb. cleaner sit overnight and have it's way with the varnish/gunk.

Dave

[ClayW]

Do your self a favor since you dont have the ability to tear it down and clean it. Go to the parts store and get a good bottle of carb and throttle body cleaner and dump the whole dang thing in the tank and mix it up good. Then ride it. It will clean a lot of the other crap out of there. Dont go and buy one of those .99 cent bottles of STP garbage either. Spend $6 to $10 on a good bottle. If you dont do this, you will likely have the same dang problem a few weeks or months down the road.

Clay

[SPECK]

what about GUMOUT carb/throttle cleaner?

The spray-can kind..I spray the whole thing into my gas tank....?

[Somekindofjerk]

Its a bottled fuel additive. It cleans out your carb and makes your trike run b etter in the long run!

[SPECK]

So will spraying a whole bottle of GUMOUT: Carb and Throttle cleaner or whatever into my gas tank work?

Thanks

P.S. - My PRM-ATV Standard Grab Bar looks great, got it yesterday in the mail.

[bigredhead]

No... don't use the spray can stuff.......

[ClayW]

NO, it wont do a thing.:wondering Go and buy a bottle of cleaner. If you cant afford it, you really have picked up the wrong hobby. Riding and maintaining a bike cost money.:wondering As far as the bottle of cleaner goes, It will have a lid that you can unscrew and pour its entire contents into the gas tank. Pour it in there and rock the bike back and forth real good to mix it up. That way you wont have a concentrated pocket of cleaner. Man.

[SPECK]

Alright, I will do that.

As far as being able to afford this hobby, I definatley can, I just wasn't sure about which cleaner to use.

If you think ATV's are an expensive hobby, try paintball. And not "play in the woods behind your house with a Tippmann 98 Custom" paintball. I am talking speedball as in go play indoor (sometimes) and spend $60 for a case of paint and $15 to get in and $10 for all-day-air. Plus $1500 on my setup/gear.

EDIT: Just so you know, this isn't a rant/flame/arguing/whatever, just made me think about it. Also made me think about, many times, laying off paintball to do more 3-wheeling.

Actually, does anybody on here play paintball?

Thanks again Clay, I will definatly do the cleaner and anything else you guys recommend. I just got my UNI-filter in the mail and installed it. And am buying the cleaner/oil for it.

Dave

[Dirtcrasher]

Dave, you really have got to get some help with this. Many an ATC is ruined by something as simple as an air filter clamp left loose, the wrong oil, level of oil too low etc. etc. etc. I know you want to ride and I know your not sure how to fix it and believe me, once that SX is maintained and running right it will last years with just a simple air filter cleaning and an oil change. But you gotta get it to that point first, or you may lose it all together. Maybe someone on this board is close to you? This board is great help but if your starting from complete scratch your gonna need some help.

[nouseforaname90]

Alright, I will do that.

As far as being able to afford this hobby, I definatley can, I just wasn't sure about which cleaner to use.

If you think ATV's are an expensive hobby, try paintball. And not "play in the woods behind your house with a Tippmann 98 Custom" paintball. I am talking speedball as in go play indoor (sometimes) and spend $60 for a case of paint and $15 to get in and $10 for all-day-air. Plus $1500 on my setup/gear.

EDIT: Just so you know, this isn't a rant/flame/arguing/whatever, just made me think about it. Also made me think about, many times, laying off paintball to do more 3-wheeling.

Actually, does anybody on here play paintball?

Thanks again Clay, I will definatly do the cleaner and anything else you guys recommend. I just got my UNI-filter in the mail and installed it. And am buying the cleaner/oil for it.

Dave


I know what you mean by paintball being expensive. I used to be REALLY big into paintball before I got into 3 wheelers (as in playing 2 times a week), and I would be spending around $150-$200 a week on it. It was insane, and that doesn't even include the price of my gear. But I have to say.. 3 wheeling can add up just as fast as paintball.

[85hondaatc125m]

I am just taking a guess at this too, but you say you put a new filter in it, might be time to rejet then or to adjust the air/fuel mixture screw. To rejet, you need to take the carb apart:( but the air/fuel mixture screw, all you do is find the screw on the side of the carb and turn it/ just play with the screw for a while, turn it in, turn it out, just play with it. I am not sure where this screw is on the 250sx' but someone here can tell you.

[Dirtcrasher]

I am just taking a guess at this too, but you say you put a new filter in it, might be time to rejet then or to adjust the air/fuel mixture screw. To rejet, you need to take the carb apart:( but the air/fuel mixture screw, all you do is find the screw on the side of the carb and turn it/ just play with the screw for a while, turn it in, turn it out, just play with it. I am not sure where this screw is on the 250sx' but someone here can tell you.


Are you kidding me?? He's tring to spray carb cleaner in his tank!!!!! This person knows very little about how an engine and carburetor works and you want him to possibly rejet and play with his airscrew?? It won't start... It's not that he changed the af and now it's missing or not idling smooth. Suggesting playing with things and offering advice to people who don't even know how to remove the carburetor or what each jets function is, is not helpful. His whole carb needs to be removed, every jet removed and cleaned spotless. Then the airscrew on the bottom of the carb needs to be lightly bottomed out and backed out about 1.5 turns for starters. Everything must be spotless and the airscrew/spring/washer/oring order must be correct.

[Russell 350X]

Buy a can of SeaFoam. That stuff works awsome, pour it right into the tank, slosh it around, and ride it for a little bit if it will start, you will notice a good defference.

[SPECK]

Don't worry, I am not going to mess with anything. I will have my father look at all of it and make sure it is all correct.

He is coming up here tommorow to look at it and make sure everything is 100% correct, etc..

And you're right Dirtcrasher, I most definatly do not know anything about this. That is why I am having someone who is experienced, not 16 years old and knows exactly what he is doing, take a look at it.

Thanks for everything you guys have done so far and I really appreciate it.

Dave

[MG200x]

Wow, hah...looks like me and you had the same problem, only mine was on a 200x. The day before i drove it around perfectly fine. Next day, tried starting it about 50 times and nothing, than maybe the 60th time it backfired on me. So i took the carb out cleaned it one last time, put choke half way, changed my spark plug and it turned on like nothing ever happend.

[YTM200BOY]

im trying the exact same thing *Edited* did change oil put new plug in and clean out carb overnight and ill let *Edited* know if my popular ytm200ek lives...

[85hondaatc125m]

Are you kidding me?? He's tring to spray carb cleaner in his tank!!!!! This person knows very little about how an engine and carburetor works and you want him to possibly rejet and play with his airscrew?? It won't start... It's not that he changed the af and now it's missing or not idling smooth. Suggesting playing with things and offering advice to people who don't even know how to remove the carburetor or what each jets function is, is not helpful. His whole carb needs to be removed, every jet removed and cleaned spotless. Then the airscrew on the bottom of the carb needs to be lightly bottomed out and backed out about 1.5 turns for starters. Everything must be spotless and the airscrew/spring/washer/oring order must be correct.
If he has put a new air filter on this may work, it worked for me, I got a new air filter, and then it just wouldnt start, my dad said turn the air/fuel mixture screw out 1 turn, and sure enough, it started. So try not to get to angry:mad: , im just trying to help like everyone else.oh, and turning the air/fuel mixture screw isnt hard, you dont have to take anything apart, it is on the outside of the carb.

[SPECK]

I have the new Uni-Filter in, new PRM-ATV Standard Grab Bar, new battery, GUMOUT (pour in cleaner, just like you guys said, it was $6) and a few cool stickers.

I also Armor-All'ed the whole body, lights, seat, etc...

It is all very clean now and the electric start works great, everything is in 100% working order and it has been checked over by the original owner (father).

So I will have pics. up soon, I am having the gas tank re-painted and new decals put on.

Thanks guys

Dave