Lowering R forks: Best way?

[DixiePlowboy]

I'm planning to lower my '85 R with an adjustable strut in the rear. Is there any best way to lower the front end other than just setting the clamps lower on the tubes? I have extra springs, can they be effectively shortened?
When I raced back in the mid 80's, I had a lot of fork tube sticking up through the clamps, and I don't want to go that route. I've seen pictures of a machine or two here that sat lower in the front end obviously acheived by some other means.

[skippy]

just pull out the short springs! out of the 2 sets!

[KASEY]

the only problem with cutting the springs is that the front end will be much lighter when you launch off the start and when you come out of the corners,,,,, it will be like you have alot of sag in the springs they will top out the forks before the weight of the sliders and tire help you out ,, i would shorten the dampen rods and make sure you have no spring sag , your not worried about travel and this way your tire won't hit the fender either,,,,,,,,,

[TimSr]

I think your first option of sliding down the tubes will work best in that you have to go down pretty far to lose any suspension travel. If suspension doesnt matter for what youve got in mind, Id agree you wouldnt want to remove or shorten springs and have the sag, and shortening the dampening rods would work but probably be costly. The only other option I can think of, but dont know what you can use that fits, is to use triple clamps and forks from one of the lower end models.

[ATC crazy]

I think your first option of sliding down the tubes will work best

Thats exactly what I was thinking. It would be the easiest way to go.

[JohnR.]

I have run ice ovals with cut front springs (no "short" spring) and stock length spring (no "short" spring) and I think it is a little better with the second setup as you need some weight on the rear end. Maybe instead of shortening the rods you could install a limiting strap like they do on drag bikes?

John

[DixiePlowboy]

How did Team Honda lower their front ends? Anyone know?

[JohnR.]

I think they slid the forks up, that is really the most effective was because you allow the forks to work in the range they were designed to. ChrisD. bought a "factory" flattrack trike back in the late 80's right after the AMA refused to allow them in any event they sanctioned. His had a Paul Turner motor in it, a flat track kit, and an extended axle just to name a few things. You can try sending him a PM. I don't think he visits the board that much anymore but he may get a e-mail notice of a PM sent to him.
John

[Curtis-Tecate3]

Look on the main page of this site under the rare/factory bikes pictures. The pics are terrible ( I know cause I took them). You can see Marty Harts factory 250R sitting on a stand, wheels off the ground and it still has very limited travel. Also notice that none of the factory bikes have the forks slid way up in the triple clamps. The same for Jimmy Whites Tecate also. These bikes had the forks internally modified with different springs and the damping rods shortened as well. Ron Baker at P.E.P. used to do Jimmy Whites suspension and still has the specs. Any competent suspension shop can modify forks for reduced travel or a lower ride height. For the do it yourselfers the easiest is to slide the forks up in the triple clamps but dont go higher than the handlebars for safety reasons.

Curtis

[Jeb]

If memory serves me correctly, according the to the 85/85 Kawasaki Tecate race-prep guide all you have to do is dissassemble the forks, add a spacer under the top-out spring, cut the main fork spring off and flatten the end to match the length of spacer you added. Of course these are Kayaba forks and not Showa.

[JohnR.]

Jeb, it is funny that you mentioned that as I was thinking about this topic today. Rather than shorten the whole rod, just put a spacer so the upper half of the forks cannot go as kigh and then cut the springs. Actually if you pop the upper spring out and make the spacer the same length as the spring you removed it should work like a charm. I now know what my "project will be for next year as the ice is basically shot at this point.

John

[Jeb]

JohnR, did you get that ebay swingarm and axle yet? I'll try to find that magazine this weekend and get that article to you about the JWR mods.

I didn't know if you could lower the Honda 250R forks that easily. I didn't know if they might be catridge forks which I understand is a little more harder to lower.

[Tecate performance]

you could swap the top out or rebound spring with the short fork spring as long as the short fork spring is longer than the top out spring.

[KASEY]

OK think about this ,,,, take the dampening rod out run down to the local machine shop have them shorten it by 3" put the forks back together ,,,hmmmm NOTHING changes!!!!!! except now your 3" lower how simple is that ,,, i am sure you can get another set of forks so swapin back and forth is a 30 minute job,,,,,,,,,,, no unsafe tubes sticking above the bars ,,,,,, even the forks won't be able to figure out what you did to them!!!!

[DixiePlowboy]

250RMAD,
That sounds simple enough. Which ever way I go, I have 4 sets of forks(2 of which have rusty/pitted sliders though) for swapping bck and forth if need be, or for parts if I need 'em.

[JohnR.]

Jeb, I got the arm ann axle, the rotor was shot and I think the carrier is for a quad, the caliper mounts are further back on the axle carrier and the "ears" that the caliper bolts to are too far apart for the '86 KXT caliper. I got the axle in for now and will put the arm on after in is polished :-D , which will be when I do the full resto this spring. 250r Mad more or less has it but if you shorten the sliders like that you'll have to shorten the springs the same amount. If you are gonna do it that way I would measure the short spring and have them shorten them by that amount. I think Tecate Performance may have had the best idea, remove the stopper spring and replace it with the top spring. I am glad you brought this topic up 'cause I am definitely gonna have mine lowered for ice racing next year again and I am gonna do it up right.

John

[DixiePlowboy]

JohnR.
Swapping springs around is what I'll try first. I've never been into a set of forks before, so I'm kinda getting a crash course in the subject here. I just knew there was a better way than sliding the tubes up through the clamps. I was a big fan of Marty Hart and the Coe Show back in the day, and I don't ever recall seeing their forks sticking up through the clamps.

[JohnR.]

Well, if you have any questions on the forks just give me a shout and I'll try my best to help. It is covered pretty well in the Clymer book, the only "special tool" you'll need is a piece of pvc pipe about 18" long that fits closely over the upper tube so you can drive the seal back into the lower tube.

John

[KASEY]

hey john if you shorten the dampening rods you do not have to cut the springs i repeat nothing changes internally ,,,,

[DixiePlowboy]

A little update for information purposes:
I took apart an extra fork today to see what I could do to lower them. I switched the top(short )fork spring for the even shorter top out spring on the bottom. I came up with a 1 3/4" shorter fork height than stock, which doesn't sound like as much as it is.
I'm still keeping in mind the idea of shortening the dampening rods if I don't get all the results I'm after, as I have several sets of rods.
Thanks again for the input, yall.

[plkmonster2]

there is a bushing on the slider that keeps the fork from sliding up too high. take it off, and add a spacer between that and the clip that keeps it from slidind too low. If you need to, shorten the spring or the dampening rod. if you just shorten the spring or the rod, when you jump, the forks will still extend to full height because nothing keeps them from doing so. i dont know about a 250r, but this is how yammie does it.

[KASEY]

sorry mr monster your wrong, if you shorten the dampening rods it won't extend to full lenght ,, cause the rods will be shorter and travel will be shorter too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[plkmonster2]

i said that is how yammie does it. the 200 that i have has no screw holding the whole assembly together, like the hondas