84 Hinda ATC200S Carb Question (long)

[knubutknotdum]

Howdy all, first time here, did a little looking around and it seems this is the best chance site for me to get a good answer to a question. You guys seem to know your sheet. TIA for being out there for those of us that are New But Not Dumb.

84 200 Honda, carb # 85CAVLY, The "A" has a box around it, the "V, L and Y" are all stamped deeper than the first 4 digits, and the "Y" has more of a cursive/oriental slant to it. It's a Keihin, which I'm sure you knew already, but nonetheless...

Wheeler given to me two weekends ago by original owner. Has always worked till parked 6-10 months ago. Now needs to have choke on full, warm or cold, then runs fine/acceptably, but ONLY if choke on full, not sure what this thing is capable of if properly running.

Have had carb apart several times. Not many pieces, except it still runs the same. Now to my question...finally.

Looking at the bottom of the carb with the bottom of the bowl off, it looks essentially like a home plate for a baseball diamond, laid on it's side with the base point pointing to the left. There is a row of items heading off to the right, the first being the inlet needle/seat. It allows flow when the float drops, prevents it when the float is up, and the float doesn't appear to be binding anywhere. Peachy there. Next is a long/deep jet that feeds the main circuit apparently, since it is right below the barrel slide/needle that is attached to your thumb lever, and if you look up through it into the light, it goes right into that circuit. Imagine that. :w00t: Opens and closes, lets the wheeler speed up and slow down if you run the thing with the choke on full. Appears to be doing everything it's supposed to, even will adjust idle speed if you turn the screw on the side of the barrel of the carb. Next is the pesky "Unknown" jet, possibly a transfer circuit, possibly idle, don't know. When installed, it looks like a plain hole on a brass tube. Once removed, you find 8 small holes on the outside of the barrel of the tube which sit inside that air horn of the carb, they are on the same jet but the opposite end, below the screw threads, technically above, I suppose, since the carb is now on the bench. This jet has a "35" stamped into the side of it, I assume that's .35 mm jet that should go from one end of the jet to the other? (I should have brought home some metric wire hole gauges from work) Currently, I can't get the smallest wire I have, which is so small it tips itself over when you pick it up out of the index, to fit through this jet. I'm tempted to drill a .35 mm hole through it and see what happens, but don't want to do anything I'll regret later.

Lastly is a screw/jet that lives on the OUTSIDE of the float bowl, not sure what it is either, but when the wheeler's running and you turn this screw, it does/doesn't effect much. Dang it. Now I forgot what that dang screw did two weeks ago when I was working on this thing the first time.

Anyway... sooo... if anyone can tell me if this .35 jet should or should NOT have a hole fully through it the long way, I'd appreciate it. Or for sure what the outside screw is, I assume idle mixture. So would my 5 yr old daughter, she want's to get out ice fishing, and the old man doesn't feel all that excited about lugging around alll the stuff by hand/human mule. Getting the wheeler running sounds MUCH BETTER!!!!

Thanks for any ideas,

Craig

yeah, I know.....:crazy:

[knubutknotdum]

BTY...... Is there anyway to change "Hinda" to "Honda" ??

Thanks, moderators go ahead if you can. My Bad.

[thedeatons]

Hello... welcome.... there is a wealth of useless knowledge in this forum so you're in luck!! I referred to www.bikebandit.com for this one, here is the exact link:

http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/oem_schematic_view~schem_dept_id~190914~section_de pt_id~1~section_dept_name~OEM+%28Stock%29+Parts~de pt_type_id~2~model_dept_year~1984~model_dept_mfr~H onda~model_dept_id~190798~model_dept_name~ATC200S. asp

You are referring to the slow jet in this case. Here is a website detailing instructions for the jets:

http://www.speedandsport.com/jet.html

The outside screw you are referring to is most likely the overflow drain for the bowl, but I am not 100% on that.... If I were you I would elect for A) a new gasket kit to rebuild the carb, since you have it off anyway, and B) a new needle and set of jets, because of the age. Needles begin to thin out over time, because of the chore of sliding in and out of the needle jet, making metal to metal contact. You will also get buildup in the jets blocking the passages over time.... It will not cost you very much, and you can use www.bikebandit.com to order the parts... This rebuild will be super easy since tyou already have the carb off... Good luck!
P.S. You can edit your post's title by clicking the "Edit Post" button.

[knubutknotdum]

Thanks for the quick and informative reply.

I've got a good feel for the metal on metal wear, gasket sealing characteristics, etc, of a carb, there are few guys in a 1-200 mile radius that I know of here in MOBFE, MN that will even work on carbs anymore, I've been doing them for 30 plus years. Not little ones like this, but Mukunis, Rochestor, Holly, Keihin, Solex, Carter, Motorcraft, Weber, and a bunch of others I don't want to think about., all on cars and trucks, with and without computer controls for the mixture solenoids/needles.

I haven't checked the links yet, figure they might take a while, but am curious, do kits for these things come with all new jets? Gaskets/o-rings have no leaks, other jets are open, almost seems like a piece of metal or something got stuck in this one jet, but I'm just not sure if it should flow from top clear to bottom or not. I'll check the links and get back to you in the AM, thanks for the steerage.

Craig

[thedeatons]

If you do drill the slow jet, you should have a machinist do it on his machine after finding exact center. I would not trust either a regular drill press or a hand drill to give you a hole that precise in a piece of brass that small....

[DeePa]

id say buy a carb rebuild kit, they are only like 15 bucks shipped to your door. also, if you want the service manual for the 200s, go to http:\\deepa.recongamer.com and grab it from there.

[twoodward15]

I just rebuilt the carb on my 185S. The same carb basically. Yes the new kit comes with all of the new seals and jets and screws and needle and seat you need. It has pretty much everything except the actual float. If your seal are good then I'd take everything apart and clean and reassemble. Make sure you take the piece out that has the hex head under the main jet! That has all of the little holes in it that are clogged and causing your problem. It just needs a good cleaning. Be sure to put some vaseline or chapstick on the seals when you reassemble.
DO NOT DRILL ANYTHING. You are looking at this wrong. It already ranjust fine. It has to be a dirty carb not letting enough fuel into the motor. Skip the cleaning with a wire game and go buy some carb cleaner. You NEED to clean it properly and this will get it done quickly and is the cleanest best way possible to do the job. There isn't anything wrong other than the carb being dirty I would assume.
If you look back a couple pages I was having the same problem you are. I rebuilt the carb and still need to make one final adjustment today before I go riding. You should have it cleaned and reassembled in about 45 minutes and be riding all your gear out on the lake later this morning!

[wheelie king]

Ditto on the kit. Do not waste time and energy drilling. Also, buy a marine grade carburetor cleaner, like Mercury PowerTune. That stuff is incredible and definitely worth the 7 bucks a can. It is much better than the autozone 99 cent stuff. Disassemble the carb, soak it down in that stuff and re assemble with a carb kit. You should be all set. Good luck.

[knubutknotdum]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I didn't like the idea of drilling either, it seemed like it was a lot more than just something stuck down in the middle of the jet, but it's down a small hole, so tough to see. Way too small for a boroscope, did try some different light flow tricks, not even a peep. I'm at work now, carb's at home, will bring it in tmrw and soak it for the morning in our carb tank, the solvent's only a couple months old so should clean anything up really quick. Not to worry, the numbered drill bits are safely back in the box. :lol:

It's possible I didn't find ALL the jets to pull, but thought I'd given it a pretty good once over, I'll check again. Seals are all still nice and soft, (and still sealing) float has no fuel in it, I'm sure this'll work out fine if I get the innards nice and sparkly, even without buying a kit. Not that I'm cheap, but if I don't need anything to make it work, what the hey?

Thanks again, I'll let you know what happens, might be a bit as my folks are showing up from TX tonight, staying till next week, not sure when I'll have time to play with this, but will let you know when I do. They were going to come this Friday, but something about only granddaughter, 2000 miles away, not since last July, I just stopped listening and gave in. :rolleyes: