what does an 85r need to run with the new 450's?

[monster 84r]

all of my friends have the new 450's. im dreaming of someday owning an 85r, so i started thinking, can simple mods such as pipe, port, reeds etc make a 250r atc run with the trx450r?

ive ridden way longer than these guys so if i do get an 85, il have experiance over them. what good combo's of performance parts could give the r a good rippy torque through the powerband, but also run with the big bores?

id like to do woods and trails, but run with the guys once in a while too. suggestions?

[Dammit!]

Well, with 2-strokes, when you gain something you usually lose something. If you mod it for screaming top end, you'll lose low end and vice versa (unless you powervalve it but that's big $$$). There are no cheap bolt-on mods that give you an equal boost throughout the entire powerband. 2-strokes just don't work that way. Powervalved top ends are the only way you can have your cake and eat it too.

But to run with/beat a 450 in a straight line 300ft drag won't take anything too outrageous. A good pipe like a Paul Turner high rev or an ESR, 38 or 39mm carb, good reeds and air filter and a good port job would probably do it. I haven't straight up raced any 450's but I've ridden with them. Seemed pretty well matched though. Those mods would put the emphasis squarely on the top end (depending on how the port job is done). Not really the best setup for trail riding. For trails, a stock carb and pipe is actually better.

Oh yeah, tires. All that power won't do you much good if you're spinning excessively or the tires are too heavy and costing you some hp. New paddles are on my list now and I need a mohawk for the front. The sand sharks aren't cutting it. They're kinda heavy and even though they're supposed to be 20's, they're 22 inches tall. The front knobby is causing some drag too.

In hard pack, I was surprised at how well stock tires off a 400ex hook up in a straight line. They don't slide the best, however. I'll probably end up with some holeshots at some point.

[dovesprings250R]

I know with a skilled rider an 85 or 86 R will run with a 450 trx in desert riding conditions. To keep up with a good rider on a trx you would need what dammit suggested. pipe, silencer reeds bigger carb and porting. I'm going with the esr 310cc kit in one of mine soon, My friend Jessie has an 05 trx 450R he rides ok but I can take him out in the desert riding. he kills me in long drag races though. Be sure to get the suspension set up to handle the extra power:beer

[BigGreenMachine]

I know its fun to win races but like was said to make power in the top end to run with the 450's you will be killing all the meat of the low end powerband and making woods riding a bit of a chore. I say ride for you, don't worry about the 450R, with stock gearing it should be close in short drags and you will easily keep up in top speed.

[monster 84r]

yeah, im not too concerned with them. i dont ever have a chance to ride any wide open areas. since all i do is woods and dirt roads anyway, im not going to loose sleep over it.

i was thinking of stuff id like to do when i get my 85, whats a good low-top pipe? for a setup i was thinking power reeds, 36mm flatside, and a descent pipe? plus filter and maybe head milling.

[BigGreenMachine]

I hear the FMF is a great all around pipe for the R. Everything else sounds good, head milling affects mainly the bottem end correct? Also raises the operating temp so it may not be real wize for tight trails.

[Dammit!]

FMF's are decent. Most noticable change is how the power hits in the mid range. It's a much smoother transition from low to mid with a stock pipe. With the FMF, you lose some low end, gain some mid and top and it hits much harder when you hit the mids.

[NOS_350X]

A good running R witha pipe can run all day long with stock 450's. You throw a radvalve reedchage, esr5 pipe, little bit bigger carb, and airbox eliminator and youll be cookin. No need to do the fancy stuff when the basic things will get you set in the winning trac. If you set it up for low rpm power you probably wont have a chance, if you set it up for high reving power youll blow there pants off.

[OldSchoolin86]

I hear the FMF is a great all around pipe for the R. Everything else sounds good, head milling affects mainly the bottem end correct? Also raises the operating temp so it may not be real wize for tight trails.
Milling helps everything.

[250rsteve]

I havent run a 450r but I have ran a yfz. Mine only has an fmf pipe and silencer , head milled, boysen reeds with stock cage and I outrun the yfz.(plus I am 60lbs heavier than the guy riding the yfz) I dont think the 450r is faster than the yfz so it shouldnt take much.

[monster 84r]

this is good, for the past couple months ive heard so much about the 450's that i thought they were simply untouchable. if its feasable to have an r run with them like you guys say, then im going for it.

anyone in az with a cheap 250r drop me a line. im trying to sell my 84r first though.

[hondatrikesrule22]

this is good, for the past couple months ive heard so much about the 450's that i thought they were simply untouchable. if its feasable to have an r run with them like you guys say, then im going for it.

anyone in az with a cheap 250r drop me a line. im trying to sell my 84r first though.

Yeah, sell your 84', and get an 85' Then drop in a 99 or newer cr 250 engine. Then let the ass whipping begin.:w00t:

[monster 84r]

i just looked at a 250r on ebay with a conversion like that. the guys selling it because it has too much power for what he needs.

il have a hard enough time trying to get an 85, but il think more about those 450's when i get there. how much are 85's going for these days? does 1100$ sound too tight of a budget?

[dovesprings250R]

I got mine for $1500.00 each and I thought that was a good deal. I see 86 250R's out here(LA area) for around $1500 to $2500 for a clean one.

[KASEY]

you might pick one up for that,,,, it might not be much,,, and you won't know what shape it is on the inside,,,, kinda get what you pay for when you go cheap,,,,

[markdb420]

Well I have a mostly stock 86R and built 85R and in short drags neither can hang with 450r's. I kill them on long runs with my 85R with the big bore. When I hit 5th gear it is like "see Ya!" When I am in 6th I steadily pull away fom YFZ's and the 450Rs. I bet in the desert my 85 is set up to slay the 450s. I own the R's a well as the 450R.

[peeweesp]

i would take an R over a 450 anyday, i just would love to see the looks you get when you are passing the an 05 450, and thinking about it you could proboboly pick up a decent R for what 1200? fix it and put alot into it and still not spend what you would on a 450. ahhh makes me happy thinking about it.:lol:

[tkm]

Do folks forget that the 450R can be modded as well? All this talk of 250R with this and that will outrun a 450R...well, the 450 can bolt on parts too.

Not to mention that the 06 450R is a better motor than the 04-05 model.

[monster 84r]

yeah, my only delemna (sp) is getting the 85. im hoping i can sell my 84 for something descent, try to get some cash, and buy an 85 by x-mas.

i agree though, id feel great to pass some of the new 450's.

[250r'en +TCB]

Dammit! had all the things that would let you keep up with the 450's, maybe even beat them. But buy a CT racing or ESR 310 kit if you want to smoke them!!!!

[Blown 331]

I was getting pretty close with my 85 250R. I had a fresh .060 Wiseco, running just one thin layer of the head gasket, ESR ATC-5 pipe, 36mm flat slide, UNI filter, no air box lid and Boyesen rad valve. My buddy has an 2004 450R with the HRC kit and Curtis Sparks exhaust. He would kill me off the line but if we went from a 3rd gear roll it was pretty close till about 5th then he'd still get me. In 3rd and 4th the 250R would actully get a bit out front.

[TeamGeek6]

A good running R witha pipe can run all day long with stock 450's..


yep, tune it right and no problem. Realize a 2 stroke produces twice the number of power strokes as a 4 stroke. If you get it tuned perfectly, youll discover the "powerband" disappears. I had a "low end powerband problem" till I fixed the way too rich jetting on transfer and now it screams from just off idle. I could get the stock PJ to tune OK on high end or low end, but not both. Sound familiar???

But all the work I had to do to the PJ was not worth it, would have been far better off with a 38 PWK.

New (or used) Turner or other good pipe and a better carb is where Id start, the stock PJ is OK for putting around, but its not a racing carb. 38 mm is good. And make sure the ignition is up to snuff or its all a waste of time.

[monster 84r]

what are some ways to beef up the ignition? i havent really heard of anything that upgrades ignition, except a better stator, what would you suggest?

[deathman53]

I have a cr250r igniton on mine, its way better than stock.

[monster 84r]

what did it consist of? how hard to install? any other ignition hop ups?

[deathman53]

its a conversion plate, stator, flywheel, harness, coil and cdi. it has two leads to the kill switch. there is no provision for lights, i'm not sure if its even possbile on the trx/atc motor, it is possible on the cr motor.

http://www.esr250.com/250r_various.htm#ignition

[markdb420]

Dynatek makes a programable ignition for the 250r and all that is required is the 86 ATC 250r wiri ng harness as the 85 willnot fit. These are far less costly than the ESR CR 250 ignition and still allow for running lights. THis is a far better way to go! Don't pay for the over priced ESR stuff!

[deathman53]

one thing to think about, the cr ignition uses a flywheel thats easily half the size and weight of the stock 250r one, what you are paying for the OEM 01 cr250r ingition and adapter plate. the dynatek still uses your old stuff, the cr is a whole new unit. all the parts minus the adapter plate and coil mount come to $425 per service honda, I don't call that ripping people off, $100 for the billit adapter and billet coil mount doesn't sound too bad. also the cr is a modern digital ignition, where as the 250r is a 20 year old analong unit. I love mine, it does stall out easier, but when you learn the new limits of it, you rarley stall it.