when to adjust the valves on my 350x

[3leggeddog]

how do you know they need adjusted,and how do you do it?i am new with these darn thumpers.my 350x seems to make some noise in the valvetrain and i don't know if it's nomal,or if they need adjusted.do you check the tolerence between the rockers or something?:idea: :eek:

[Unclediezel]

It must be valve week here in trikeland-----Follow the Shop manual recommendations for clearances--Somewhere near your flywheel there will be a rubber plug on the motor- pop it off-rotate the motor until a "T" is visible in the hole-pop off your valve covers - and make sure all your rockers are free- Valves closed- if not - make one revolution until the T lines up again- you will be checking the clearance (Free Space) between rocker arm and valve tip.

Specs can be found at the front of the site -----BTW - How did your brakes turn out?

[3leggeddog]

i got em working,but i ahd to use the MC off my r.i must have air in the MC,or i rebuilt it wrong.thanks for the advice

[Unclediezel]

No prob--
As for valves---Dont sweat it---Ive been an auto mechanic for 20+ years -and when I came to 2 stroke toys -it took me forever to understand what the hell a reed valve does!

[edog]

When it starts getting hard to start.This happened to my Tri Moto.

[350Xhilaration]

I'll send a service manual and parts manual with craig if I can remember.

REMIND ME with an email...rhuel.adams@gmail.com

[3leggeddog]

your the man rhule!!!!

[SpeedBump]

The noisy topend is more than likey a stretched timing chain.. ATC350X Timing Chain (http://cgi.ebay.com/Honda-Atc-350X-TRX350-Cam-Timing-Chain-NEW_W0QQitemZ3601052825QQcategoryZ383QQssPageNameZ WD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) (the valves may need some adjusting as well. ;) )

ATC350X Timing Chain (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DID-Cam-timing-chain-ATC350X-350X-TRX350-D-350_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43977QQitemZ4588302 759QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V) I bought and used one of these DID chains in my 300EX. The BorgWarner is the OEM if I remember correctly.

ATC350X Timing Chain (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/85-86-ATC-350X-Cam-Timing-Chain_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43977QQitemZ45417 28108QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V) Another one on Ebay.

Get some :pics: of your new toy...come on already.

Service Honda Part & Price... (http://www.servicehonda.com/parts.php?partnumber=14401-HA7-671&getpart=1&getprice=Submit) Little steep eh?

[200xcellent]

Stretched timing chain? This thing still has paint on the top of the foot pegs!!!

[chris200x]

Maybe something here can help.

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=43286

I'm in the process of learning how to do this myself. The only diffrence is it's a griz 600 :naughty: But I suppose it's the same process for all motors is it not?

[chris200x]

This will do the trick. Just scroll down a bit and skip the fender removal steps. My good freind Huffa just turned me on to this one.

http://raptor.popolz.com/adjust.html

[TeamGeek6]

Stretched chain with "still having paint on the footpegs?" Maybe not, but the rubber in the tensioner guides can shrink and cause the chain to be loose. I assume it has rubber guides like many other Hondas.

Get a piece of plastic pipe or a stethescope and listen around the engine, itll be obvious where the noise is. Put the pipe against the engine case and hold your ear to the other end, the pipe will magnify the sound.

Make sure to not overtighten the valves, that caused them to burn. I always test a set (for one cylinder for example) by setting them to "book" then backing them off loose till they start rattling, to see how much difference there is.

Best thing Ive found for old Hondas is to adjust the valves with engine running and hot. That made huge differences in the Honda 4-street bikes because the clearance hot and clearance cold are never the same, and the clearances often decrease when hot.

[max]

the dude sold it. my motor is about to blooooww:lol: . i hope not budy

[350Xhilaration]

I'd have to disagree with the "adjust them hot" theory. Unless Honda ATCs have a different spec than a Honda car. (which is possible, but i doubt it). Honda car valves have always had a clearance spec that was for a cold engine. Do ATCs have the same? By the way according to Honda, Cold = <100 degrees F.

I'll look at the svc manual tonight if I remember to see if it specifies cold.

As far as backing them off a bit til they rattle, Are you talking about while the engine is running? Can't (Shouldn't, CAN do anything, but not a good idea) do it with the style of tappets Honda uses. There is a set screw and locknut on the "rocker arm".

A screwdriver or prybar will also do the same to "amplify" the noise and help pinpoint it. Put the handle end against your ear and the tip on different areas of the engine.

[3leggeddog]

it just seems like i can hear the valves int he pipe.like they are tinging or rattiling in the pipe.maybe it's just the dg pipe?

[slothminx]

Best thing Ive found for old Hondas is to adjust the valves with engine running and hot. That made huge differences in the Honda 4-street bikes because the clearance hot and clearance cold are never the same, and the clearances often decrease when hot.

How are you suggesting he gets the feeler guage under the rocker while the thing is running. dude would have to be magic lol. of course there smaller when hot. the valve heats up and exaspands in length, expsecially that exaust valve.

Will

[350Xhilaration]

I just pulled three pages from the manual...Click here for download (http://www.350xriders.com/350x_valve_adjustment.pdf)

Cold = < 95 Degrees F

Hope this helps Brandon. Any other sections you need pulled lemme know. Might be quicker and easier until Craig gets out there.

[TravEX]

I never set the valves on it. It always had a slight ticking, but so does my 400EX, I know on the 400EX it's normal to hear a little ticking up front. Hope you get it adjusted right.

[grundlegrabber]

When Geek says do it while running, he's not talking about using a feeler gauge, he's doing it "freehand". The object, when adjusting valve clearances, is to obtain as little clearance as possible, while ensuring that the valve will not be held open at all. The clearance specs set by the manufacturer are the numbers that the engineers came up with to meet these criteria. By leaving some looseness, there is room for thermal expansion and such.
If you are unsure, it is better to be on the safe side and leave them looser rather than tighter. If a valve is set too tight and hangs open, even slightly, the motor will lose compression and the valve could "burn" (they heat up and the metal of the valve face actually burns away). This normally happens to the exhaust valve. Then it's time for a valve job.
As far as when to adjust them, a good maintanance schedule is the best way. I do mine once a season. If you don't know when it's been done last, it's time to do it now. As the valve faces wear, the face seats further in the head, which moves the stem up toward the rocker arm, creating a tighter clearance. I have revived several Hondas that were low on compression and given up for dead, simply by loosening up the vavle clearances because it had never been done.
Oh well, that's just my take on it. My hands are tired and I'm going to bed now....

[3leggeddog]

yeah i am gonna adjust them soon.even if they are pefect i gotta check em.i just don't want to throw the timming chain or something cause i didn't check things out.thanks for all the help.

craig i hope your ready to work on the beast when you get here,and eat some pumpkin pie at dinner sat. night.time you meet the family,lol,!!!!!!!!!!!

[SpeedBump]

Should I bring handcleaner? Heck, I can wrench on it a bit I guess. As for the PumpkinPie...gotta pass...hate pumpkin pie (I am sure if I liked it, YOURS would be great) LOL

What family are we talkin bout? Do they also think I am a serial killer? ;) :lol: :lol:

Do me a favor...shoot me your addy again. I wanna Mapquest it. I plan on leaving between 10-12 Saturday morning. Should make it there in about 5 hours. No trailer so I can make better time. Is there anything you need me to bring along? I will have my camera & Camcorder so I hope somebody is there to use them as we race. I will be giving you a call sometime Friday evening to chat some. GET SOME :pics: OF THAT X POSTED UP!
L8R

[3leggeddog]

i don't have any way to post pics. without getting uncle d down here.

well as for sat. i got thanksgiving with my dads side,very cool people,all layed back and easy going.but that should be done before you get here.i thought you were coming earlier.

no hand cleaner needed on this bike,plus i got some anyway.is it hard to adjust the valves?i dunno that they need adjusted.you get here and we'll figure it out.

no pumpkin pie?dude are you in the taliban?

[200xcellent]

Dont forget my cameras DR. Bump!

[TeamGeek6]

When Geek says do it while running, he's not talking about using a feeler gauge, he's doing it "freehand". The object, when adjusting valve clearances, is to obtain as little clearance as possible, while ensuring that the valve will not be held open at all. The clearance specs set by the manufacturer are the numbers that the engineers came up with to meet these criteria. By leaving some looseness, there is room for thermal expansion and such.
.

Exactly, except when I mention " while running," it is with a feeler gauge. There was a marked power increase in my 550 and 750 Honda 4's between "factory" procedure and setting them hot. Its not hard to do with a little practice if you dont mind a little oil splash. Well, OK, its a royal PITA, but worth it.


The engine spends most of its time running while hot, not cold so why adjust them cold?

Yes, specs are set by engineers for new vehicles, that all changes with age and its a matter of experimentation to find where they are in an old engine.

This noise may not be valves if youre hearing it in the exhaust pipe, it may be afterburn, which is fuel burning when the exhaust valve opens. The thin wall, hollow exhaust pipe will ring when the fuel goes off. This isnt so noticeable in a car because the manifolds are thicker.

The early horizontal 4 Goldwings were bad for this because of weak ignition. "Valves out of adjustment" is blamed when thats impossible, they use hydraulic lifters.

Listen to the exhaust pipes with a pipe or stethescope, you may hear them ringing. If so, and it is afterburn, itll wipe out the exhaust valves pretty quickly.

[TeamGeek6]

How are you suggesting he gets the feeler guage under the rocker while the thing is running. dude would have to be magic lol. of course there smaller when hot. the valve heats up and exaspands in length, expsecially that exaust valve.

Will

Hi Will, havent forgotton about you. No, its not hard to feel a moving valve, the gauge slips right in because of teh oil on the surfaces. Tryit and C.

[slothminx]

Hi Will, havent forgotton about you. No, its not hard to feel a moving valve, the gauge slips right in because of teh oil on the surfaces. Tryit and C.

Hey, i think will give it a try then, i would have thought that the rocker would be moving too fast for me to get the feelerguage in and then if i did it would take the feeler guage with it and in that small hole would bend the feeler! but i got some old feelers around and an engine with rockers so ill give it a try.

Will

[TeamGeek6]

The feeler usually has to be bent to get it in, at least Ive always had to. Form it into position with the engine off, then roughly adjust the cold clearance with engine off. Then practice setting the clearance while the engine is running cold. Once youve got that perfected (and after youve thrown every tool you own across the yard and cursed a blue streak) then try it hot. youll probably get both yourself and the engine soaked with oil and burn a finger or two, but the results really are worth the trouble, especially if they are set too tight to start with.

This is how all the drag racers *used to do it* on high performace engines (or still do), thats why they sold (or may still sell) oil deflectors for the engine to keep oil from spraying all over the garage when setting the mechanical valve clearance.
Last auto engine I built would squirt oil 3 feet through the air onto the garage wall when it ran without the valve cover! he he he heh

The old auto engines used to have specs for both cold and hot settings.

[OldSchoolin86]

This is how all the drag racers *used to do it* on high performace engines (or still do), thats why they sold (or may still sell) oil deflectors for the engine to keep oil from spraying all over the garage when setting the mechanical valve clearance.
Last auto engine I built would squirt oil 3 feet through the air onto the garage wall when it ran without the valve cover! he he he heh

LMAO, ya but when you do this to a V8 the item you are turning in and out isn't moving at a high speed, it's stationary. This is great if it works for you but it's totally unnecessary on a trike.:lol:

[Blown 331]

I don't agree with adjusting valves on a V8 like that either. Why not get each cylinder on top dead center and adjust the lifter preload like you are supposed to? I bulilt my Mustang with studded roller rockers with poly lock adjustments. You couldn't adjust the valves like that on this car if you wanted to. It's EFI and the intake is over the top of the valve covers. My Mustang buddies call adjusting valves with the engine running Chevy man style. lol.
Oh if you're refering to solid lifters then get each cylinder on top dead center compression stroke and set them with a feeler gauge, really easy if you know anything about cylinder running mates, just get it's mate in over lap.

[Mosh]

hey 3 legdog,if you can hear a tinggy rattle noise in the pipe, it sounds like the timing chain is worn.my 250x has the same problem.be sure to check your valves.but when you hold it at a steady throttle and it tings in the pipe,that sounds like a chain stretched.if that is the case,as long as the guides are good,just replace the chain.and be sure to check the tensioner on the cylinder jug.those go bad a lot.i would just replace that when you do the chain.usually the cause is because the motor was run low on oil at some point.the top of the chain is the last place to get oil when running and if it was run low,it is the first part that suffers damage. service honda has about the best prices i have found for those.70 for the chain and 70 for the tensioner.welcome to 4 strokes.they are expensive for engine parts

[Unclediezel]

Guys- Logically- THINK-
What is an intake valve doing while the exhaust valve is open?????

Simple- Its sitting around FAT ,DUMB, and HAPPY in a CLOSED position. OVERLAP??Hogwash- if there was enough overlap to hold a valve open - the motor would blow the muffler clean off - or send your carby into orbit.
Engine running?????How do you set a gap when what you are adjusting moves from "REST" to "COMPRESSED" at a rate of 4 times per second?????- And- How do you NOT hold a valve open with the added width of the feeler gauge??????