Mugen Power

[KASEY]

OHHH YEAH,,,, i snatched this after being listed for 9 minutes!!!!! can you say swoooop ?????

[MTS]

*wipes drool off keybord*......is that a bigger bore or stock 250 ported to hell n back? anywhoo its sweeeet....*shwing*

[Yamahondaman]

WOW !!!! NICE !!!! does it still have the Chrome Bore ?

[Billy Golightly]

KASEY YOU MF"ER! I've been wanting one of those such a freakin long time. Your one lucky guy, thats for sure.

[Blown 331]

Post some details on that thing, I've never seen one and know nothing about it.

[3Razors]

That is an awesome cylinder setup. They come with 4 port exhaust! Great snag!

[3Razors]

Extremely rare also!

[Lomax]

Looks good, glad you got it but like some of the other members here, other than the obvious (obvious being a top-end), I dont really know what it is. Please enlighten.

[86250RZ]

Killer score Kasey (you suck man) lol j/k I have wanted one of those cylinders for years. It's none of my business but I just have to ask, how much did that cylinder set you back.

[Xowner]

kasey a steal at double the price!

[Blown 331]

I think you guys are pretending to know what this thing is.

[Billy Golightly]

Its an aftermarket Mugen topend. It has a nikasil coated cylinder like all of tdays modern MX bikes and the Tecate trikes. The port design on it is vastly different (and supieror) to the normal 250R cylinder. Those 2 pieces there make 330R big bore kit power in in the normal 246cc size. Its pretty much the holy grail of watercooled R parts.

[Blown 331]

Its an aftermarket Mugen topend. It has a nikasil coated cylinder like all of tdays modern MX bikes and the Tecate trikes. The port design on it is vastly different (and supieror) to the normal 250R cylinder. Those 2 pieces there make 330R big bore kit power in in the normal 246cc size. Its pretty much the holy grail of watercooled R parts.

So it's better than a pro-x cylinder? Seems weird that if it works so good no one still makes it being the 250R has been so popular.

[OldSchoolin86]

So it's better than a pro-x cylinder? Seems weird that if it works so good no one still makes it being the 250R has been so popular.
I agree, it won't make any more power then kits out today but it's worth it's weight in gold for being a sweet ass Mugen kit.

[Billy Golightly]

Actually I'm pretty sure the Pro-X cylinder is fairly similiar. This is just the "one that it learned from" so to speak. If you checkout the proX cylinder you'll see the expanded area over the exhaust port that allows more water to sit there and cool it (Powervalve cylinders not included). The mugen has this too. I dont know all the little intricate details, but I believe the Pro-X cylinder was made after this.

[KASEY]

the nice thing is it was a fraction of the cost of a pro-x ,,, incase you don't know the symbol on the cylinder means "NO LIMITS" IN JAPANESE,,, mugen built lotsa performance parts for honda and still do!!! i think i am going to put it on the mantle till i have a chance to build a bottom end for it,,, maybe paint it gold too,,, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :eek:

[3Razors]

The mugen cylinder is what the factory honda racers used on there trikes. Mugen was Honda's top R&D for performance. Out of the box a ProX cylinder performs so so at best... The port heights and convigurations come in a very mild state of tune. The reason is so that your motor builder can custom tailor the powerband. The Mugen cylinder came race ready and was a top end screamer.

[firefirefire90]

what? I thought honda factory was Paul Turner?

[Solid Snake]

Mugen still does high performance modding for Honda's pro race car team. Never knew they did stuff for three wheelers....all I gotta say is that thing looks sweet!!

[Blown 331]

the nice thing is it was a fraction of the cost of a pro-x ,,, incase you don't know the symbol on the cylinder means "NO LIMITS" IN JAPANESE,,, mugen built lotsa performance parts for honda and still do!!! i think i am going to put it on the mantle till i have a chance to build a bottom end for it,,, maybe paint it gold too,,, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :eek:


If I came across one I think I'd just keep it on my mantle. It would be a shame to trash such a rare top end when my engine grenades next time. :wondering :lol:

[RichinMO]

Was that cylinder actually made for the ATC or was it for a CR motorcycle? Thats the first I've heard of one for the water cooler.

[Yamahondaman]

They Made one for the ATC and the CR Dirt Bike....
Hey Billy !!!! Wanna see some pics of one we have had for awile ?
it's been re-sleeved for the Trinity 295 "72 mm piston"
that's the one i wanna work on for the Tri-Z ... i think it can be done !!

[Billy Golightly]

Heck Yeah, Ronnie, lets see that thing! I've only ever seen two of those Mugen cylinders before.

[CoeShow]

firefirefire90 is correct. The Honda ATC race team NEVER used any Mugen parts.

In 85 and 86 it was Paul Turner stuff all the way. The sad part was that Paul Turners stuff wasn't that good. There were other Tuners making significantly more power than what Turner was selling. The only reason his stuff was so popular is because Team Honda used it. (we HAD to). My DG prepared ATC250R made more power than any Paul Turner junk. Selvy's, Harry Klemm, FMF, Eddie Sanders, and others all had more power.

It just goes to show that even if you have the most power available, you still have to RIDE it as fast as possible too. Like today, Ricky Carmichael will win on any thing he mounts. It's the rider more than the machine that will win races.

Believe me, I know first hand................ I could have won MORE races if my 3 wheeler was as fast as the competition's. I only ever had 1 Paul Turner set up that ran great.

And before I could race it, Steve Carter (Marty Hart's mechanic) ruined it!! This was the biggest fiasco in my tenure with Honda. What a sham!!

[crackshot]

And it looks like Paul Turner is still making his junk.

[Huffa]

While you guys are on the Mugen subject I have just recently seen :naughty: a Mugen expansion chamber for a 81-83 250R but it's for the 360 Mugen cylinder.

Brand new and it's 50 bucks, isn't that dirt cheap?

How much rear wheel horsepower you guys think a 360 kit will make?

I know the answer (real close anyway) and just want you to take a wild guess at it. Maybe you know already though?

[Billy Golightly]

Huffa, Sudco? Sold out a long time ago from what I understand.

[Huffa]

Huffa, Sudco? Sold out a long time ago from what I understand.

Yea your right. They should take it off their web site then.

[86250RZ]

There was a guy on 3wheeler.org that had a Mugen kit installed on a super clean 250R and thats the only other one I've ever seen. He bought the whole trike for like $900.00 and the only problem it had was a hole in the piston. I'll see if I can find a pic of it. Well, all I could find was the engine without the trike.

[willcamach]

i saw an old add for that mugen kit the 360 and couldnt beleive it was only about $300.00 back in the day with the pipe and all.... i think its a shame that the prices for pipes, pistons, mods etc has risen to the level they are now. i wont even touch the price of the new quads its crazy

[Dammit!]

The only Paul Turner parts I've ever used on my R was the high rev pipe (and that pipe kicked ass).

[Yamahondaman]

For the ATC ....Paul Turner HIGH REV !!!!! BEST PIPE !!!!!
Hey Billy .... Here's our 295 Trinity "MUGEN"

[Yamahondaman]

i'll try again ........ "MUGEN"

[Billy Golightly]

Mugen pictures for Ronnie. These things are sweet...Hopefully I can find one some day.

[AZ250R]

Mugen pictures for Ronnie. These things are sweet...Hopefully I can find one some day.
That would make this like the "Centerfold of Centerfolds in Trike Porn" eh!?!? :naughty:
Now I kinda want one... damn tha hunt it on... :mad:
So then one of them ESR kits won't be as good as this MUGEN setup?

[3Razors]

The esr and other kits can make the same and much more power than the mugen setup. Its all in the porting and headwork done on the cylinder. If you just order one of esr's econo kit 265 or 310 cylinders the power is decent and all, but you will have that "something is missing for the amount of $$$ spent" feeling. The fully ported setups are much better and worth the extra $$$ which will get you at the power level of the mugen. The mugen was ahead of its time, and is kind of a nostalgic showpiece.

[HRC1]

firefirefire90 is correct. The Honda ATC race team NEVER used any Mugen parts.

In 85 and 86 it was Paul Turner stuff all the way. The sad part was that Paul Turners stuff wasn't that good. There were other Tuners making significantly more power than what Turner was selling. The only reason his stuff was so popular is because Team Honda used it. (we HAD to). My DG prepared ATC250R made more power than any Paul Turner junk. Selvy's, Harry Klemm, FMF, Eddie Sanders, and others all had more power.

It just goes to show that even if you have the most power available, you still have to RIDE it as fast as possible too. Like today, Ricky Carmichael will win on any thing he mounts. It's the rider more than the machine that will win races.

Believe me, I know first hand................ I could have won MORE races if my 3 wheeler was as fast as the competition's. I only ever had 1 Paul Turner set up that ran great.

And before I could race it, Steve Carter (Marty Hart's mechanic) ruined it!! This was the biggest fiasco in my tenure with Honda. What a sham!!
What were some of the engine mods that factory bikes ran on the track? Any info on factory bikes is good info.

[HRC1]

Any chance of getting pics of the ports of that jug?

[keithmart]

Anyone know what brand (other than Mugen) head will bolt on to the Mugen jug.

[Louis Mielke]

Nothing will. Good luck selling that one. :-P

[250rfan]

Nothing will. Good luck selling that one. :-P



Damn Louis, why did you say that,

I was pinning all my hopes on a message from ebay stating - new items from your favorite sellers - KEITHMART complete Mugen cylinder BIN -$2500.00, :lol: :lol:



Holy crap,,,,,i just got a message from ebay stating exactly what i just said,,,, minus the BIN,wtf, thats spooky,,,better go and click watch this item,,:naughty: :naughty:

[Louis Mielke]

i'm a kill joy what can I say. lol

[CoeShow]

The best and most powerful cylinders we had were cast in Japan with significantly altered transfer/auxillary exhaust ports and were ALL nikasill plated. I used to call them "Puff" cylinders as the transfer ports were visually larger and different from the stockers. They were more similar to Kawasaki KX cylinders by comparison.

These cylinders worked VERY well and I know there are probably a few still floating around out there. I have 0 pictures. I also know this. Curtis Sparks has some of the fastest Honda 250's available. Not sure if he offers any bigger cc stuff

Eddie Sanders is also very knowledgeable with these engines. I know Eddies stuff is fast because his 3 wheelers were ALWAYS faster than my Paul Turner equipped trikes. Get this! We once had a National at a race track in California at a place called Porterville. The track was an awesome TT track built into a very nice 1/2 mile dirt oval.

Eddie Sanders would tease us factory Honda guys! We would be all tucked in like we were racing Daytona or Bonneville, 6th gear, pinned throttle, when Eddie would come Blowing by us, sitting upright, and then shifting gears!

That was a VERY humiliating situation. I got into the worst crash in my career that night. I got off BIG TIME! My trike was completely totaled. Somehow my mechanic (Now MANAGER of Team Honda Racing!!) Chuck Miller bolted together another race worthy trike.

I think I won the last chance qualifiyer and ended up finishing somehow on the podium. I was suffering from some significant injuries (seperated shoulder, compressed knuckle joint, tempoary loss of vision) from the crash but was somehow able to put in a good ride in the main event.

I think Sanders crashed out or broke, I don't recall his finish, but his trike was the FASTEST that day, no question! Like I said before. Many guys had faster trikes than Team Honda! The fact is, Team Honda had most of the best riders. On top of that, we were typically in better shape than most other 3 wheel racers of that era.

I HAD to be in superior shape! My trikes were never as fast as most of my main competiton after Paul Turner was hired to provide our top end's and exhaust systems.

If Honda had used somebody other than Paul Turner, say, Harry Klemm, Bassanni, D.G., Selvy's, Pellegi, or a host of other fine tuners, Team Honda REALLY would have been untouchable!

The fact is, winning creates sales. Most every one wants to run what winners are running, right? The reality was, after purchasing a Paul Turner cylinder and pipe, most felt that what they purchased was not the same as what Team Honda used because in many instances their trikes were now SLOWER than before! The reality was they WERE getting the same stuff because ours were slow too!

The biggest difference was we at Team Honda just rode the wheels off our trikes!

Same with the Ohtsu tires. Outsu never made a tire HALF as good as any Hoosier tire. But since Team Honda was winning with them, people bought them up........ Go figure!

Good luck and ride safely.

[PLJ.]

Thanks Coe again for the comments, history and insight on the glory "factory" racing days of our beloved sport. I still cant believe or fathom that amatuer builders, tuners and riders like ourselves can connect, converse and hear the "real" stories from the racing days from an icon like yourself. You and only a handful of others are the true "legends" of our sport. Thank you again for watching these posts, poping in from time to time and setting the stories straight. Thanks again.

[250rfan]

Thanks Coe again for the comments, history and insight on the glory "factory" racing days of our beloved sport. I still cant believe or fathom that amatuer builders, tuners and riders like ourselves can connect, converse and hear the "real" stories from the racing days from an icon like yourself. You and only a handful of others are the true "legends" of our sport. Thank you again for watching these posts, poping in from time to time and setting the stories straight. Thanks again.





Ditto........:beer :beer

[BenSchlimme]

The best and most powerful cylinders we had were cast in Japan with significantly altered transfer/auxillary exhaust ports and were ALL nikasill plated. I used to call them "Puff" cylinders as the transfer ports were visually larger and different from the stockers. They were more similar to Kawasaki KX cylinders by comparison.

These cylinders worked VERY well and I know there are probably a few still floating around out there. I have 0 pictures. I also know this. Curtis Sparks has some of the fastest Honda 250's available. Not sure if he offers any bigger cc stuff



I've got an old Paul Turner version of what I think is the type of cylinder you are talking about Mike, although it does not have the nikasil plated and was just done off a 1985 stock ATC cylinder.

Paul welded up the outside of the cylinder on the front transfer port I believe then epoxied the heck out of the internals and reshaped the port.

Worked pretty good but not nearly as good as the CR cylinder Paul did the next year for me.

I can snap some pictures of it if I still have it and can find it in the shop if anyone is interested in seeing.