Engine rebuilt, now a tick?!?!?!

[Yamahauler]

I just finished putting the engine together on the YTM, I went through the whole motor, put in a 20 over piston, bored it out, new rings, new valve seals, new cam chain, new gaskets.

I got it started up in about a minute, then it sounded great, no tick, or noise of any sort. I took it for a small ride to the backyard and back and it was all good.

I went back to the garage, shut it off, then the next time I started it, there was a loud tick, i shut it off and then as the engine revved down, it sounded like it was coming from the clutch cover, not from the top end.

Any idea what it could be?

[atctim]

Did you do anything to the bottom end?? Crank Bearings could be worn, and with the new fresh top end this could be putting added strain on the cranks bearings. I've seen this happen numerous times - top end rebuild, but nothing done to the bottom end, then the engine scatters. Just wondering what you did to the bottom end??

[Yamahauler]

I didnt do anything to the bottom end. Will it have screwed all the parts to my new top end?

[Yamahauler]

Well, I fixed the overflow problem on my carb and got it running first pull, the tick is still there but when you put it in first it goes away. Then when you shift it back to neutral, and rev the motor a bit, it comes back. Is this what happens when the crank bearings arte bad?

[Howdy]

The timing chain might be stretched causing the tick.
Howdy

[Yamahauler]

Hey,
The timing chain is brand new. But I never figured out how to ajust the tension on the cam chain. Maybe this is why???

Thanks

[Howdy]

Hey,
The timing chain is brand new. But I never figured out how to ajust the tension on the cam chain. Maybe this is why???

Thanks

It would be a great place to start looking. ;)
Howdy

[Yamahauler]

Could you explain it to me?

The manual makes no sense, it says, screw in the ajuster until the pushrod is flush with the ajuster, or something like that. I dont understand how you are supposed to see the pushrod since it is inside the ajuster.

[freewheel3]

Could you explain it to me?

The manual makes no sense, it says, screw in the ajuster until the pushrod is flush with the ajuster, or something like that. I dont understand how you are supposed to see the pushrod since it is inside the ajuster.
You do have the big plastic cap off of the adjuster, right?
If not, take it off & you'll see the push rod in the center of the adjuster.

[Yamahauler]

ya I have the whole tensioner assembly out, I just can figure out how to get it tensioned right. When its running, its supposed to move a little or something, thats what the manual said, but what supposed to move, I dont understand.

If someone could explain it very thouroghly, that would help a lot.

[thefox]

Ok, with the engine off you screw in the adjuster (10mm I think) until the push rod is flush with the hole that is in the center of the adjuster. Now you start the engine andlook at the end of the adjuster, you should be able to see the push rod moving just a little bit. Put you finger on the end and you should feel it too.

[freewheel3]

Just like thefox said. Except that you do the adjusting with the "T" mark on the flywheel lined up with the timing mark on the crankcase. (Inside the timing window plug)
If the push rod isn't moving a tiny bit when the engine is idling, then you are set too tight, back it off a bit. Also, don't forget to tighten the locknut on the adjuster. (22ft-lb)

[Yamahauler]

Hmm, I think I must have misplaced some parts, but I'll have to check it out tomorrow

Thanks.

[Yamahauler]

Well I figured out how to ajust it. I didn't realize there was a hole at the end of the ajuster. :rolleyes:
The tick is still there, so, it pretty much has to be the crank bearings, right?

Here is a video of the tick, notice when I put it in gear, it stops ticking. Then take it out and it goes again.

The whirring you hear is the camera, it does that for every movie I take.

[freewheel3]

Man, I don't know what to say. Is that engine taking awhile to stop rotating when you shut it off? Or is that something else that continues rotating after you shut it off? It's hard to tell on the video.
If it is the engine taking that long to come to a stop, then you have very little compression, but I'd be surprised it would even run then.
If it's something else continuing to rotate after you kill it, maybe something in the clutch?
It doesn't really sound like the usual bottom end knock to me, though.

[Yamahauler]

Im going to check the compression on it, but I'm sure it has tonnes. It starts very easy, but I'll still check.

Before I rebuild it, it took that long to come to a stop too, except there was no big knock.

[Somekindofjerk]

A friend of mine had a 110 they beat the crap out of, he had the same problem, it ended up being the clutch. Going down hills idleing it would start freewheeling, then if you pinned it it would slow down again. LOL that thing was awsome!

[Rex Karz]

That sounds really bad. You could do the old screwdriver as a stethoscope to locate the knock. That's a knock, not a tap IMHO. The fact that the knock slows down or speeds up depending on when it is put in gear or not tells me it is not top end related. If so the knock would always be same frequency as the engine speed. Pull the clutch cover.... clutch(es), oil pump/rotor, You might find some "extra" parts in there. That clip helps a lot. :cry:

CAUTION: THE ABOVE ADVICE IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY (Mine)

[thefox]

Yeah that definitely isn't cam chain noise. I have to say I really don't know what it is though and it is bugging me so much :mad: , I must have watched your video at least 20 times! When I was chasing down the knocking my YTM is making I talked the mechanic at my Yamaha dealer as he said that if it was the lower bearing on the rod then the sound would quiet down or go away once a load is put on the engine. My knock ended up being the top of the rod was worn out, but that was a different noise then what yours is.

With all that said I would be taking off the clutch cover and checking everything over that is in there. It is when you shut the engine off and you can hear it knock on the wind down that has me thinking clutch. Have you tried turning it off while in gear? Does it still knock as it is winding down then?

Again, I have never had this happen to me so don't take my advice a fact.

[Yamahauler]

Ok, I just checked to see if it winded down the same when it was in gear and shutting it off, and yes it does if the wheels are off the ground, if their not, it just stops quick. When I put it on a milk crate, put it in first and gave it gas, the knock comes back, the same tone.

Thanks everyone whos been helping me out.

[Yamahauler]

I should say, the first time I started it after the rebuild, it had no knock or any noise whatsoever, I shut it off, and pushed it outside and rode it in my backyard and shut it off, The next time I started it up, it had a huge knock and thats what your hearing in the video. I would say it is coming from the clutch cover side (I havent opened that up in a long long time), but I will see if the shop I work at has a stethescope and try that.

[Rex Karz]

No more shortcuts, just pull the cover. I wouldn't run it anymore either until this is fixed.

[thefox]

Yeah I would say it is time to pop off that side cover, I couldn't tell you what to look for but that seems like the best starting spot. Anyone else have an idea?

On the plus side, your Yamahauler is looking very good. If only mine was the "E" we would have twins, knock and all lol!

[Yamahauler]

Yeah I would say it is time to pop off that side cover, I couldn't tell you what to look for but that seems like the best starting spot. Anyone else have an idea?

On the plus side, your Yamahauler is looking very good. If only mine was the "E" we would have twins, knock and all lol!
Yea, haha same decals too!

[Yamahauler]

I pulled the cover today, there were metal shavings in the oil filter :eek:
Anyways, when I got the cover off, first thing I noticed is that one of the clutch bolts (ones with the springs behind them) is loose, it was unthreaded about an 1/8".

I looked behind the secondary clutch and there was a gear and the nut holding it on was loose too.

In the pic, it shows a differant gear, is it supposed to look like that? It looks like the ends of the teeth are worn off to me.

I'm going to pull the clutchs off tonight and see what else is screwed.

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17054

[thefox]

If you mean that the gear teeth are not pointed at the ends it is suposed to be like that. It's tuff to see from that pic. but it looks ok to me.

[Yamahauler]

I got the clutchs off tonight and I think I may have found the problem.
The nut holding the gear that was loose, was sticking out far enough for the clutch basket to rub on it, the back of the basket is marked up pretty bad now.

I also noticed that the one way bearing on the primary is faulty to, you can spin it both ways and it only catches sometime going the other way.

I am going to replace these parts with the clutch from the 225DX, I checked part #'s and they match up. I will post pics of the damage when I get home, I am at the shop right now.

I hope this is it, but I guess I'll have to throw her together and see if it's still got the knock.

[freewheel3]

"If it's something else continuing to rotate after you kill it, maybe something in the clutch?"

I'm always right. :D Well....except when I'm wrong. :lol:

[Yamahauler]

Well, I just got back from the shop (3am). THE KNOCK IS GONE!!
I was quiet happy.
just got to put the plastic back on and shes ready to rip.

Derrick, you were right! It must have been a fluke that it started knocking right after I rebuilt it. I hadnt opened the clutch up for about a year.

I attached a pic of the clutch, its a little messed up. I took the one from the parts 225 to go in there, just had to clean off the rust and dirt. The one I used is on the right.

Heres a video, sounds better eh? again, that whirring is tthe camera.

Well, I'm off to bed, Thanks for all the help!!!

[freewheel3]

Now that sounds waaaayy better, you be da man Cory!! :w00t: :w00t: