what to make a mudder from?? [Archive]

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shudup

07-02-2005, 02:18 PM

im thinking of a project and would like to make a 3 wheeler mudder
thought of a sx but id like to be able to change gearing and not sure if it would be able to be done
but the shaft drive would be great as far as being that mud may eat up chains
any ideas??

bigredhead

07-02-2005, 02:41 PM

Stick with the SX or big red ES.. tire size will provide some gearing change. but the 1st gear will turn the wheels no matter what.. and if you're making a mudder. top speed won't really be the 1st priority so stick with the SX ... tho the ES has better mud protection !! for the clean driver in you !

nouseforaname90

07-02-2005, 03:12 PM

I have a 250SX with more mud-worthy tires on it than the stock tires, and it works great for mudding. I have woods below my house, and when it rains, it fills with water down there and then it turns to mud (because its like a valley where the water can't get out of), so I always go down and mud around. I can put it in second gear and press the throttle and it will spin.. I've never tried third, but it has quite a bit of power and very good traction for mudding.. I'd go with the SX..

Blown 331

07-02-2005, 04:30 PM

I don't know if I'm just weird but unless you have the whole rear end pretty much restored on a shaft drive. New bearings, seals, races and the surfaces which the seals ride on such as the axle it seems like an older shaft drive gear box will fill up with water, mud sand, same with the drum brake. I would use a chain drive with a disc brake but that's just me. I swear a chain and sprokets last almost as long as a shaft drive rear end and cost a small fraction to replace comparted to shaft drive. I hardly know of any shaft drive atv's that are older than 15 year which get plenty of use that the rear hasn't went out on.

When I bought both my 225DX's the rear was full of water. My dad's and my buddy's 250SX's were full of water and didn't sound good, both had to be replaced. My buddy had a moto 4 100 brand new when he was a kid, that went out. Then he got a brand new moto 4 350, that is currently out. Another buddy has moto 4 225 with a bad rear. I had a 200E Yamaha with a bad rear, my 225X is making noise. The list goes on.
When I was a kid I rode ATC200's. I couldn't keep water out of the rear drum for anything and went through pads like crazy.
I bought a 1984 XR500R in 1997, Put about 15,000 miles on it, plenty of off roading and mud. I just had to replace the chain and sprockets this year. They lasted me 8 years and I got them used, that out lasted the rear in my buddy's Moto 4 350, in this case the chain out lasted shaft drive. And my bike has WAY more use than that 4-wheeler. Chain and sprocket are less than $100 for an o-ring chain. You're talking $1000 most times for shaft drive. I'm not a big fan of shaft drive plus you're stuck with the same gear ratio. Other than swaping 250SX to 250EX gears or something like that.

freewheel3

07-02-2005, 04:33 PM

I think an 83 185s is the best, because it is light and has lots of power. My son has one and he beats me when we go muddin'. I think your better off with a185s and some good aggresive mud tires.

Kintore

07-02-2005, 05:04 PM

freewheel is right, I use my ATC200 to go mudding. Works awesome and light to.

BIGCRIP28

07-02-2005, 06:14 PM

on shaft drive models you definitely need to make sure all seals are good that rubber boot up front also.
seen many big red 250s destroyed from this.

Tri-ZNate

07-02-2005, 06:17 PM

SXs are awesome in mud. I throw it in second and those knobbies pull ya right through that 2 feet of mud.

bigredhead

07-02-2005, 06:21 PM

Know your machine.

My SX had water in the diff when i got it.. but the bearings and seals were shot.

Blown has a very good point.. even tho i've replaced all the bearings and seals in the rear, it still takes on water.. not alot but it does.

KNOWING this.. i empty and refill my diff frequently.. i remove my right wheel and clean the drum after every few rides, and i'm fine so far.

Do you guys ever throw chains while IN the hole ? of if tight enough is this simply not a problem ?.. i've seen many a bike throw the chain in a foot or 2 of mud and be pulled out by shafters...... sorry. Could be their setup tho. .mileage may vary.

bigredhead

07-02-2005, 06:23 PM

OH.. and in case you wanted to know.. all seals and bearings.. swingarm included if you go with honda parts.. = 250 $.. canadian.

Aftermarket.. half or less.. depends on the grade you choose and availability.

yater

07-02-2005, 06:32 PM

shudup

07-02-2005, 07:32 PM

ya if i used the shaft drive id have to keep up maintenance
but rev. would be nice

ATC crazy

07-02-2005, 07:37 PM

350X

You need to spin the tires fast enough to clean them out. The X definately has the power to do this....as well as being able to spin 27"+ tires in the deep stuff, since you can change the gearing according to tires and mud conditions.

bigredhead

07-02-2005, 08:32 PM

Now having the 350x with autoclutch would be nice in mud.. lots of power... but the hand clutch can suck the big one when you have to get off and pull/push.. tie ropes etc.... No reverse is not a good thing.

Tranny oil is cheap.. i'm sure with a bit of engineering one could seal up the rear or allow it to drain easily. I still rather have shaft in muck.

Tho chainers float better !! an SX with 2 ply tires and maybe ITP aluminum rims..

250r'en +TCB

07-02-2005, 08:45 PM

hey I've got a wonderful idea!!! How about a 500R??? Think about it, you can't get stuck in the mud if your soaring over it! ha ha ha!

MTS

07-02-2005, 09:15 PM

What me and my friends did with our honda' 200's for muddin was just take the rear brakes out ,drum and all, then put grease zirks and geasably carrier bearings in it, leave the chain guard on to keep rocks and sticks out, go all day give it a quick pressure wash then greasd the hell out of the bearings and lubed up the chain good...........o-ring chain works best cause it wont sieze together with rust so quickly......just my 02. cents if your gona mud...and 25x12x9 mudlites.....

Maine_Triker

07-02-2005, 11:43 PM

82-83 Big Red 200E with 25" mud lites on the rear, 25" knoby on the front. You'll have the high/low range which is a bonus, and it's a very light machine compared to the 250ES. If you want you can regear it. The only disadvantage would be no reverse.

Howdy

07-03-2005, 08:11 AM

None of the chain drives have reverse....which is a big deal in the mud. That said, I'd STILL rather mud with a 200e big red than anything else...just for the simplicity of it. I've never seen a chain driven trike or quad throw a chain in the mud. Keep it adjusted and you'll be fine.

Not true! The 86-87 125m's are chain drive and they do have reverse ( and electric start ). With a little engine work you can get the 125m to really wake up. You will end up with a light weight mudder with electric start and reverse. And yes it's chain drive. ;)
Howdy

jenndnn3

07-03-2005, 12:12 PM

I have just figured out a way to make your 200x with reverse, and have electric start. Oh and they have chain drive too....

The problem, the engine is harder to come by. But it is possible.

Tri-ZNate

07-03-2005, 12:35 PM

I have just figured out a way to make your 200x with reverse, and have electric start. Oh and they have chain drive too....

The problem, the engine is harder to come by. But it is possible.

What, like a '87 200x?

Oldshell4481

07-03-2005, 12:35 PM

what engine is that??

jenndnn3

07-03-2005, 12:37 PM

;) :cool: Yes it is the 86-87 engine. Now have fun.

bassman

07-03-2005, 02:22 PM

I'd go with none other than 200x. My 200x is pretty damn good in the mud, if I do say so my self. Along with creeks. And you don't have to worry about drums, because they are disc brakes.

Do you guys ever throw chains while IN the hole ? of if tight enough is this simply not a problem ?.. i've seen many a bike throw the chain in a foot or 2 of mud and be pulled out by shafters'

I've had my chain comeoff in the middle of a hole before. I just put it in nuetral, hop off, and put halkf the chain on the rear sprocket and push the trike so the rest gets back on. No biggie. Beats replacing rearends.

shudup

07-03-2005, 02:45 PM

I'd go with none other than 200x. My 200x is pretty damn good in the mud, if I do say so my self. Along with creeks. And you don't have to worry about drums, because they are disc brakes.

I do have 2 200x frames one motor that needs verry little work, a frontend just need electrical and compleat rear end
alot cheaper probley than a new compleat trike.
wonder what it would look like with taller mud tires or if i should stick with 22 inch ones?? more ground clearance would be a plus id think. I can always gear it down to make up for the tire size
probley wouldn't run rear plastic. part of the fun of muddin is gitting it on you. :)

short4stuff

07-03-2005, 11:49 PM

;) :cool: Yes it is the 86-87 engine. Now have fun.

trx200??...

jenndnn3

07-04-2005, 09:49 AM

Yes short, The trx200sx, non-shaft (Shaft(thankyou bigredhead) is like that of the earlier 200x's). So you need the chain drive. It is a pull start, electric start, 5 speed w/reverse. Shift pattern, 1down is reverse, 1/2click up is neutral, rest up starting with 1st on up. Topend exactly like that of the 86-87 200x. The thing is the 86-87 200x is very hard to come by, trx just as hard,. But I think a swap of this nature would be extremely easy, and fun. I just figured I toss it out there for you all to try.....
Maybe someday I will do it to my 86. But the interest is not that strong for me.

Pistonhead

07-04-2005, 10:12 PM

I agree with Kintore I've got the same Big Red that he does, sweet for mud. If you freshen up the valvetrain and rings on an 82-83 Big Red you'll have no problem and they are light like a dirtbike.

Blown 331

07-05-2005, 08:31 AM