It's been a long 6 months!

[Blown 331]

Well thanks to a deal on some parts from 250RNUT my 250R runs again! I haven't really rode it yet. I need a water pump gasket and a CR head gasket, other than that its ready to go! I painted the engine heat resistant black, looks really nice. The rest of the bike is in great original shape as well.
Its an 87 TRX motor with a .040 Wiesco, rad valve, 36mm flat slide, ESR exhaust, open air box and I have 18's on back. The carb had a 138 main in it and I had a 175 laying around so I put that in, I think it may be a bit big though. I will hopefully get it tuned on Sunday.
If so it already has a challenge lined up. My buddy's 450R! He as the HRC kit, Curtis Sparks exhaust and a K&N. Including the rider I should have about a 110 pound weight advantage so that should help. And to make it just a little interesting we be $30. lol. I think I mite be losing $30 but we will see! :TrikesOwn

[Xowner]

pics?

if you can get off the line on him you sould take him

[Blown 331]

I should be able to get some pics tonight and post them tomorrow. As long as I can find a head gasket I should have the thing all back together tonight. It's a sharp looking bike for being unrestored. My buddy has a TRX250R with a lot more mods than my ATC. The 250 can usually take a 450 in first and maybe second but it gets demolished after that so I'm not too confident. If he beats me I guess I'll just need more mods!

[Aussieboy1]

never give up until its over mate !!!!!!!! Be positive and you will kick his 4 wheelen arse

[AZ250R]

My buddy has a TRX250R with a lot more mods than my ATC. The 250 can usually take a 450 in first and maybe second but it gets demolished after that so I'm not too confident. If he beats me I guess I'll just need more mods!
3rd gear clutch dump was what I's think'n, but I've only done it a couple of times & won't anymore. Just too harsh on the ride IMO. Plus don't go race'n anybody till ya get a few hours of normal wear on that new top-end. Then TAKE HIM, that "fat-bastage" will miss a shift anyway! ;) :beer :rolleyes:

[Blown 331]

I got it finished up last night. Took it for a ride and I was pretty impressed. Pulls the tire in 6th gear only using the throttle.
A freind that I hadn't seen in over a year stopped by. He had never seen a 450R (there are 2 at my house). It started to rain but I let him ride mine and I rode the 250R. We went down the road. He has no expience on a 450R at all but after a couple minutes we lined them up. He beat me by half a bike lenght. At this point I was very happy with my 250R. I still have to tune it!
We went back to my house and he said he had to let off 4 times because the tires were braking loose. I thought, yeah right but it was raining. Well we lined up 3 more times and I'd say he was beating me by 5 to 10 bikes and riding wheelies passed me! WTF?
My buddy with the 450 that I'm racing for money told me to just give him the money and he will spare me the embarassment, probably not a bad idea.

What am I doing wrong here? I know the CRF competes with 2005 CR250R's and should have a problem making light work of a 1985 CR250R but this is getting rediculous. This is my 4th attempt (different engines/combinations) to beat a 450R with a 250R and it's always the same out come. I'm very frusterated.

I guess I will try messing with the jetting. It runs really good though. I think it should pull harder up top though. Is it possible the 18's on back are hurting me? I would like to gear it up, its a little low for my likings. Anyone with in a couple hundred miles on St. Louis that can tune a 250R? I will come to you and pay good money. We have a TRX250R with tons of mods that gets smoked by the 450's that you can tune also. :( I guess I will call ESR, they build both bikes so they should know what this is gonna take.

Here is a pic I took with my camera phone to so quality isn't the best.

[chris200x]

Stick a cr500 motor in that puppy and you should take him. lol I guess somethings are just not meant to be.

[Blown 331]

I'm on a hunt to find out what is going on here and if this thread is correct I have my answer. What do you guys think? I think all the numbers look correct to me. The guy who started the thread is asking the stock HP of a Quadzilla. The guy whose name is 86ATC250R is stating rear wheel HP numbers.
http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4378&st=0

I bet my 450R is putting 15 horse more to the wheels than my 250R. I'd say that will do it.

I started this thread.

http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=8896

[cool_racer]

you 18s are defently hurting you. go up 1 tooth in the front and drop a few in the rear and you will have pleanty of top end. the 1 in the front should bring it back to about a stock ratio. but if you keep the 18s i suggest you pin the the throttle and dump the clutch in 2nd

[Dynofox]

Its hard to believe it gets smoked by a 450r that bad. The trike weighs almost 70lbs less than the 450 and isn't down much hp. Not doubting you, it just doesn't seem to make sense. Maybe once you get the carb tuned correctly and your gearing right it'll be a different story.

[Blown 331]

Its hard to believe it gets smoked by a 450r that bad. The trike weighs almost 70lbs less than the 450 and isn't down much hp. Not doubting you, it just doesn't seem to make sense.

That's what I'm saying. I don't understand it. I think I need someone else to tune these things or something. My buddy did have his 250R tuned at K&B in Troy IL and they build and race 250R's. Both 250R's seem to run great and have a really snappy powerband, they feel really fast but I don't think they pull up top like they should. I'm at my wits end with these things.

[Dammit!]

18's will definitely hurt you in a drag race. What gearing are you running? And what happens when you guys trade bikes? Same result?

My advice, get it jetted right, put some 20's on it that have an aggressive tread so it'll hook up real good and run at least 13/39 (stock) gearing. I'm running 13/38 but one tooth in the back doesn't make much of a difference. If you're running a wide open drag race instead of a fixed distance you might want to run 14/36.

I rode with a 450R at the dunes and while we never lined up officially, we did go blasting around next to each other a few times and he didn't seem to have any real advantage over me. It probably would have been a good race if we had done it.

[Dammit!]

That's what I'm saying. I don't understand it. I think I need someone else to tune these things or something. My buddy did have his 250R tuned at K&B in Troy IL and they build and race 250R's. Both 250R's seem to run great and have a really snappy powerband, they feel really fast but I don't think they pull up top like they should. I'm at my wits end with these things.

If you really want to wake it up, have it ported for top end power and hang on. :Bounce

[Blown 331]

Thanks for the input, this is what I'm looking for. I have stock gearing, I'm pretty sure it's the factory chain and sprockets. I was thinking about going up on the front sprocket, I started another thread on that. Yeah we didn't have a fixed distance we were racing. Just lined up and went. I have the stock rear rims and tires I can put back on the 3-wheeler so maybe I'll try that. I do need to re-gear it for sure. I'm liking the sound of 14/36 if a 15 front is a bad idea.
If it's geared to low will that make it feel like it quits pulling up top? The 4 wheeler feels like that too so it almost makes me think that's a charactaristic of the motor and it's not a problem. The 4-wheeler has stock gearing and 20's on back.

My buddy's TRX250R does have a professionally ported cylinder, that still doesn't do it. Also if the 450 you rode with didn't have a pipe and HRC kit it was no where near it's potential. It's a joke how choked off they are from Honda.

[RideRed250R]

iam going to cherp in on this. he blown i own a 85 atc250R and ride with 450's, raptors,banshees the works, my freind and i ussaully will drag together. He owns a TRX250R with a PT eliminator top-end with high rev pipe, 38mm carb, a PTR head with 21cc on 110 octane, the thing moves out! i as of this moment have a basically stock R all it has is FMF pipe and silencer, and i had to rebuild the carb and lost the jets that trinity jetted for AHHHHHHH! anways about 3 weeks ago we went to glamis. i rode the trx in several drag races, few on the flats and a few up olds, every time the out come was about the same, if it was hrc and just piped and jetted i ussaully was a few bike lengths a head on the flats, on the hill it would scream, i would just pinn it and hit the whoops as hard as i could and would just cake walk up the hill, the eliminator kit screamed in high rpms. Then i rode my atc, yes they did beat me but i never got the chance to race a stock one, and i dont count fmf as a pipe anymore... i rode a stock atc250R about a week ago and it felt almost i dentical. I raced a trx450R on my 250R till 4th gear we agreed, first one to 4th then let off, 1st 2nd and half third i was with him like neck and neck about revvin out 3rd he would start to walk and when he hit 4th he would be about 2 bike lenghts infront, i raced the yfz a stock one and a piped one the stock one was mayb a half a bike length faster then the 450R but i was very unimpressed with it. i thought they were these monsters who would eat up ** two-stroke and make fun of *... well the people at the drags were cheering me on and when i pulled over for vidoe tape i had a guy come over and say for a out dated dinosaur i hung on pretty good. i was happy with that and smiled and said thanks, and we started talkin and crap but iam gettin off track. everytime i draged i had to let off in first and 2nd a stock R with straight paddle haulers just wants to throw * at a 55 degree wheelie and * have to let off, i have down what iam going to do to my r to at least level the playing feild. iam defently looking into extend my swing arm. i say the 450's are fast but look they are highly modded from factory. i say a good esr310 kit, 38mm carb TRX11 or 9 port, v-force reeds, and a paul turner high rev pipe.... i say its all over from there, the 250R will be back, i mean if a 380 trx thats been guesseted and stuff can beat a 450R the atc should have it in the bag.
i say go 20 inch tires stock gearing and * should be able to beat a 450R, i think tire spin and shorter gears are your problem
adam

[RideRed250R]

i also want to state that i fthey missed a gear or shifted wrong or i got them off the line, it was then a VERY CLOSE race and i even one a couple against the 450's, but like i said it wanted to wheelie like crazy and * had to let off in crushall gears.
adam

[Blown 331]

Well guys I think I about have it straightened out! A 14 tooth sprocket wouldn't fit, my chain wasn't long enough. So I put my stock rims and tires on the back and what a difference that was! It still didnt pull up top like I thought it should though.
I pulled the intake boot off the back of the carb and when I reved it up a slight mist of gas was coming out the back of the carb! I lowered the float level and all I have to say is wow! This thing rips! It runs sooooo good, I can't even believe it. I think I have a ligitimate shot at the 450. I'm thinking the 250 is actually faster! I'm gonna have my brother take a pic of the end of the race and I'll post it.
I am having a problem getting it to idle though. I accidently lowered the float level too far and it would idle then so it's flooding on idle for some reason. I've tried adjusting everything. I'm not too worried about it right now.
I just let my brother ride it and he said his Tecate is no comparion to this thing.
Now I just have to figure out that TRX250R, it does't run like it should either.

[250rAL]

I think your jetting on the main might be a bit rich. I run a 175 in the winter but drop to a 170 in the summer. I've got 20" tires but my stock gearing is too low. The next time I get new sprockets and chain, I'm going to go 13/37. Those new fofittys got us in top speed and that's difficult to overcome without regearing.

[Dammit!]

Anybody know what the 450's top out at with stock gearing?

Back to porting for a second, you can have your top end ported for different applications. Kinda like how there's different pipes for low end, mid range and top end power.

That 14 tooth sprocket should fit with a stock chain. Sometimes it's a pain to get the chain loosened up enough though. Try putting it on a lift and have a friend put some pressure on the adjuster to make sure it's as loose as it can go while you're trying to put it on. Sometimes it's easier to put the chain on the sprocket while the sprocket isn't on the shaft, then putting the sprocket on. If you get it on there make sure you have at least 1 inch of slack in the chain once everything is back together.

If you have the cash you can always go crazy and get a power valved top end like the 310 that deathman got recently (I think 310 is the biggest you can go without changing the stroke). A 36mm carb would probably be holding it back a bit though so you might want to get a 39mm along with it. With something like that and getting everything geared and jetted right, you shouldn't have any problems dusting a HRC equipped 450 (or damn near anything else for that matter) and you'd still be way under the cost of a new quad.

[Blown 331]

I've clocked my 450 at 80 no problem. Scary part is, at this speed you can let off, the pull up on the bars and hammer the gas and pull the front end up and ride as long as you want. Sounds hard to believe but anyone around St. Louis come on by and I'll show you. I was gonna show MO350X but it was way, way to windy and it would just blow me off the road. Here is a chart of top speeds from dirt wheels. Looks like you can get them to do almost 90 with some gearing/tire changes. And keep in mind this is with no HRC kit or pipe which adds a ton of power. I bet 100 mph wouldn't bee all that tought to acheive. I plan on a 500cc hi comp piston and a worked head for mine. http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4624

Yeah I was thinking the 175 for mine is a bit rich, runs like it too. I know I have a 170 somewhere but I can't find it. I want to change that before I run my buddy's 450R.

[Blown 331]

Well I just called ESR. I told them my goal. I told them I wanted to beat the 450 for cheap as possible and I wanted to send them my cylinder for porting. He went and talked to someone and if I want to beat the 450 and stay on pump gas I should get the econo 310 kit for $800. The other way is to have them port the cylinder and oring the top of it to eliminate the head gasket for massive compression.
Then I got to talking to them about the 450 and they have a 12.5 to 1 480cc piston kit for $447. Thats the whole kit. I think I'm doing that instead. I can't imagine that thing with an extra 30cc and 2 points on the compression ratio! Still runs on 93 octane too!

[Dammit!]

Was that 310 econo kit power valved?

[KASEY]

LOL!!!!!!! I LOVE THESE THREADS,,,
http://health.yahoo.co.jp/images/topics_f/20011121/big_laugh.gif

[Fox250R]

MY R eats 450s all day! I dont know what your bikes prob is.....

[3Razors]

The tuning is absolutely the most important step on a 2 stroke! Fine tune the jetting. When everything is tuned just right ie jetting, pipe design, porting, that is where the big power comes in. Its like making a great batch of cookies, all the ingredients have to be perfect or else things come out bland....