Please doctors, diagnose this!

[foster]

Took my young fellow for a spin on the 185s and after awhile I turned him loose on it. For the record, he drives fast with lots of spinning roosts in the ice and snow.
Five minutes later he calls on the walkie-talkie: "Come get me, dad. The wheels have all locked up."
In fact, both rear wheels were locked tight. We tipped it and jostled it and noticed that by wiggling it back and forth, the wheels were gradually loosening again. First it would roll an inch and lock up, then two inches, then three inches, etc... Finally we got it rolling again but the pull start wouldn't pull. One of the guys on his quad jump started us and we just let the thing idle during later rest periods throughout the day. During idling time, you could hear a distinct rattle inside the pull start assembly.
Comes the time to go home and the machine starts skipping, as if the chain is slipping off every minute or so, something that got worse climbing hills. However, with the chain guard still on my machine and not wanting to get into it out in the bush we just coasted her home.
Took the pull start assembly apart and it was a mess, with bent round parts and the thing that the dogs sit inside was cracked. I've ordered a new one from Dennis Kirk.
Meanwhile, I haven't looked at the chain and sprocket just yet because I've been busy, but I suspect a loose chain is at work here.
But I'm new to this atc stuff, relatively speaking. So sorry if these questions are obvious.
-- Does that "skipping" sound like a loose chain to you?
-- Do you figure I screwed up my sprockets by riding home? Is it obvious when your sprocket is shot?
-- What happened to lock up the rear wheels? Is that related to the suspected loose chain? Same with the pull start assembly being destroyed, related to the chain coming off perhaps and seizing everything up and wrecking my starter assembly?

Thanks in advance for your insight.

[bigredhead]

How old are the rear bearings ?

Take that cover off .. or pull the plug on the side under the fender to check the chain tension.

as far as the starter goes.. hmmm don't know bout that.

[bigredhead]

Did you have rear brakes before ? i've heard of liners comming off of the brake shoes before... that would cause a mess !!!!

[foster]

Rear bearings are the originals. I don't suspect that's the problem, however, because we got it rolling again just fine, and as for the brakes, same deal, they work like they've always worked.

And I'll definitely be taking off that cover and inspecting the chain and sprocket -- just busy with work until at least Thurs. night.

I can't see how bearings or brakes would show these symptoms. But then again, I don't know squat!

The starter assembly was in pieces, literally, almost as if it had engaged as the machine was running.

I do think all these things are somehow related, because they all happened at the same time. It's just that, not knowing much about the mechanics of these things, I don't know how they could be related. But I bet someone here does!

[thefox]

The starter assembly was in pieces, literally, almost as if it had engaged as the machine was running.

That would be my guess. It sounds like the pull starter engaged when the engine was running and driving. This would lock up the engine and you would not be able to move it until the pieces unjamed by you shaking it. The sudden force of stopping the front sprocket suddenly while the back tires are still rolling would but allot of stress on the chain and sprockets. You could have stretched an already worn chain to the point that it now slips, a few sprockets or even the countershaft teeth may have also been damaged.
This is just my guess without actually inspecting the machine so don’t go ordering parts or getting too worried over my opinion. Good luck.

[foster]

Well, I appreciate your opinion. Particularly since it is what I have suspected all along. However, I cant' inspect the chain and sprockets until tomorrow night so I thought I'd post what had happened on this board and get some input until then.
Hope my chain is okay and the sprockets have lost any teeth! But we shall see in about 26 hours.
Friggin' work!
I have ordered the starter parts for a rebuild. But I needed them anyway. It's the second time in two months I've had starter problems and I want that to stop happening, like, now.

[bigredhead]

You do know that you don't have to remove the guard to inspect the chain tension !! right ?

You won't be able to check the prokets this way, but pull the rubber plug on the cover between the rear tire and front sproket aprox.. and you can check the chain tension and lube it this way quickly !

fyi !

[foster]

Yup! Thanks!
My little rubber plug is missing anyway, har har. I want to have a real good look in there, though, and adjust everything if it isn't outright busted up.
Do many folks drive their 185s without the chain guard? Any danger in that? (Just wondering.)
I got a feeling the chain was slipping off as I was riding it back to the trailer, and the chain guard was allowing it to bounce back on again. Or something. . .

[bigredhead]

If your plug is missing.. i wonder if something got IN there thru that hole !!!... that would suck big time !!!!

Just about everyone i know removes those guards as soon as possible ( On the rare occasion that they are still there !! ).... specially if you do alot of mudding.. they fill up with grid and wear your chains out !

Some people like them tho.. but i don't.

[rob0781]

Yup! Thanks!
My little rubber plug is missing anyway, har har. I want to have a real good look in there, though, and adjust everything if it isn't outright busted up.
Do many folks drive their 185s without the chain guard? Any danger in that? (Just wondering.)
I got a feeling the chain was slipping off as I was riding it back to the trailer, and the chain guard was allowing it to bounce back on again. Or something. . .


My old 185S had the guard when i bought it but it was filling up with dirt and mud and killing my chain i took it off and it actually did better i would just lube the chain after every ride...

[TrikerR]

yep, defiantely a good thing to take it of, cause the seal dosent last 20 years, so every things gets in there.

[foster]

Never thought of that. I figured I was doing a good thing leaving it on. I'll take it off when I do my sprocket and chain inspection.
Thanks for the advice!
I never got around to it last night. Man, I'm busy. This weekend though I'm going over it with a fine-toothed comb. Should get my new starter rebuild parts on Monday (maybe today if I'm lucky but I'm never lucky) and I'll be mobile again.

If anyone else wants to chime in with advice or a diagnosis, I'm all ears.

[bigredhead]

Put that guard on E-bay and it should pay for your starter parts !!! LOL..

[sandpuppi101]

I had something similar happen before ,I think.Does the rear end move freely with the recoil off.If so I had it before where the seat where the dawgs siit in the recoil were wore just enough to let one of em pop out and the dawg itself got lodged in there.If you can't move the atc with the recoil off you better take it apart and start inspecting it all out!

[foster]

Naw, she's rolling fine. See the initial post. We got it rolling and jump started it; rode around for a few hours and then rode it back to the trailer. (After finnagling with it.) Never tried it since -- mostly because the starter is sitting in a grocery bag in 10,000 pieces. Still never got my new starter parts from Dennis Kirk, so there's no rush to get on it. Thanks for your input though.
Any others? I'd especially like to hear any dissenting opinions on what happened to cause this in the first place.

[foster]

Oh, just to add that among those pieces is a spring busted at both ends, a housing bent all around the rim here and there, a cracked thingie-bopper where the dogs sit in; retainer springs that have all the retaining capacity of a newborn baby, a washer from the outside of the friction plate that has a groove warn almost right across it etc.. . etc...

[83185s]

wow...when you said he called on the walky talky it sounds to me like the engine locked up..same thing mine did when i was on the road..locked up the back 2 tires and i had to push it home...anyway.,.gladly that didnt happen..i have a rebuild kit for the 185-200cc honda pullstarters...its the one with the pawls and springs and washers and little metal cover plate...also i have an extra pullstart casing if you need them 20 shipped its yours..the rebuild kit is brand new and in the package

[83185s]

o shat..i shouldve read the other posts..uhm..the starters get to hot sometimes when your engine gets a little to hot..mine has also done this wich is y i have the rebuild kit and extra casing..anyway..i think that mine got to hot one day cause i was givin it hell the whole day and i guess it was payback for me from it but thats not the point..they get to hot the metal expands and befoer you know it your starters in pieces..thats what i have gathered with mine and seems as tho yours may have done that 2...just dont run it in the snow or water without the pullstart case cause you will burn out your stator if it gets wet...ive done that a few times also