Cracks in case! What can I do?

[lisnup65]

I have a 86 250R motor that runs good and strong, but its been leaking oil on me. The motor is new to me and was redone by someone else less than 4 hours of run time ago. They did repaint the motor when they went through it so I did not see their was damage. I thought the oil leak was due to a stripped drain plug as is the case with so many that I have seen in the past.

Well I rethreaded the drain plug and installed a Fram sure drain to make sure the plug thread will remain in tack. I then put about 10 minutes of ride time on the machine to heat the oil a bit. I parked it for the night and the next morning I did not have the small puddle under it, so I thought the leak was solved. A few days later I then noticed some oil build up in the motor skid plate again! :mad:
I then flipped it back up and studied the case halves. Under layers of paint I found a crack on each halve. At 1 point the motor must of broke a rod or it was over tightened to hell on reassembly.

So what can I do besides part the motor of buy new halves. Is their a way I could make a repair?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/lisnup65/Motorcycles/03bb1432.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/lisnup65/Motorcycles/940affb7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/lisnup65/Motorcycles/4384a156.jpg

[chris200x]

Oh man...I thought I had problems. You could try JB weld that should hold her for about 12 minutes. Probably gonna have to replace them.

[hrc85250r]

if thats all there is for cracks, pull the motor apart and have the crack TIG welded and have the little edge "surface ground" so its flat, it doesnt look like those are any load bearing parts of the cases, so its no big deal to get them welded up...if you take your time with the welding and grinding you could take dremel or something to the outside surface of the halves and they would look factpry with a good paint job....

[chris200x]

On that one picture I think I see many smaller cracks Like it's starting to spider or fracture. Cast aluminum is not the strongest metal in the world and it breaks very easily. I can't really tell though. If that is indeed the case I would replace them.

[lisnup65]

if thats all there is for cracks, pull the motor apart and have the crack TIG welded and have the little edge "surface ground" so its flat, it doesnt look like those are any load bearing parts of the cases, so its no big deal to get them welded up...if you take your time with the welding and grinding you could take dremel or something to the outside surface of the halves and they would look factpry with a good paint job....

That is what I was thinking. :Bounce When I do get her apart I will know of what damage is done on the interior.

[max]

you cant weld it cause it has magnesium in it. i put some jb weld on mine. that stuff worked wonders. i got the jb stick. make sure your in room temp. apply the stuff on and let it cure for a few hours. the just sand it to where you want it the paint it. try this out before your go spending 1000 dollars to fix this. the jb is only about 5 dollars. good luck budy
max

[lisnup65]

On that one picture I think I see many smaller cracks Like it's starting to spider or fracture. Cast aluminum is not the strongest metal in the world and it breaks very easily. I can't really tell though. If that is indeed the case I would replace them.

It appears its only the 2 larger ones. The dark picture shows them the best. The oher stuff you are seeing is mostly the paint and the poor job I did removing it with my scotchbrite pad. I really does not seem to be weak or spider cracking.
I just cannot tell at this point if the damage was from the inside or over torque on reassembly.

[Billy Golightly]

Eh...temporary fix? get some real course sand paper (like 80 grit) and work on it, and go over with acetone, and then JB weld it.

The best fix is to pull the motor, split the cases, and have the cracks TIG welded. You can weld the cases but is pretty dang tedious work.

[x.system]

That looks like a skirt break to me. When they break and get lodged in the crank area thats usually what happens to the case halves. If it was from torque it would be around the bolt holes. They are repairable, I've had a couple done before and they hold fine. Just make sure you have the surface ground like HRC said. Good time to check out the tranny to while you have it apart. I would also look for more cracks internaly in the crank journal, I bet theres more. The last set I had done had about 3 cracks in each case half.

Hit up HondaATC, hes got the tools and know how to repair those. :D

[x.system]

Eh...temporary fix? get some real course sand paper (like 80 grit) and work on it, and go over with acetone, and then JB weld it.

The best fix is to pull the motor, split the cases, and have the cracks TIG welded. You can weld the cases but is pretty dang tedious work.


Hows that case half coming? Wheres the finished product? Pics?

[Billy Golightly]

lol x.system I did a little bit on your case, but I wanted to get an output shaft to put in both cases so I could make sure that the broke out peice was welded in straight and square with everything else. While welding up a sidecase I ran into a problem with the arc not being clean and I haven't fixed that so I haven't did much else on them. It seemed to start right after I did some steel welding. I'm not sure whether something is screwed up on the welder or what. I've changed the tungsten and it still does it. Its real erratic, its weird. Hopefully I can get it figured out and get back to work on them.

[sblt500r]

lol x.system I did a little bit on your case, but I wanted to get an output shaft to put in both cases so I could make sure that the broke out peice was welded in straight and square with everything else. While welding up a sidecase I ran into a problem with the arc not being clean and I haven't fixed that so I haven't did much else on them. It seemed to start right after I did some steel welding. I'm not sure whether something is screwed up on the welder or what. I've changed the tungsten and it still does it. Its real erratic, its weird. Hopefully I can get it figured out and get back to work on them.


i'm new hear and was looking through some of these and saw this. i have tig welder and do alot of case fixes. what kind of welder do you have? is it on the ac setting? are you stepping on the pedal enough? you need alot of power to weld aluminum right.
shawn

[x.system]

i'm new hear and was looking through some of these and saw this. i have tig welder and do alot of case fixes. what kind of welder do you have? is it on the ac setting? are you stepping on the pedal enough? you need alot of power to weld aluminum right.
shawn

How hard is it to learn how to weld aluminum? I have an aluminum welder available I want to learn on.

[Billy Golightly]

i'm new hear and was looking through some of these and saw this. i have tig welder and do alot of case fixes. what kind of welder do you have? is it on the ac setting? are you stepping on the pedal enough? you need alot of power to weld aluminum right.
shawn


Its a miller dialarc 300amp. It is on AC, high frequency. And yup, the pedal is open enough, to burn a hole if your not careful :p Whats happening is arc isn't like even. Its like making arc in some places and not others, and then it gets black and makes these little holes and ****. Its weird. My dad keeps saying its not clean, and he may be right but how much cleaner can you get then using a 40 grit flap disk on the pnuematic die grinder?

[hrc85250r]

you cant weld it cause it has magnesium in it. i put some jb weld on mine. that stuff worked wonders. i got the jb stick. make sure your in room temp. apply the stuff on and let it cure for a few hours. the just sand it to where you want it the paint it. try this out before your go spending 1000 dollars to fix this. the jb is only about 5 dollars. good luck budy
max


uhhhh, im 100% sure there is no magnesium in the R's cases, even if it did you can go to a professional welding place and they can do it, it just has to be welded in a vaccuum chamber... i would never J
B cases, it is the most horrific thing you can do, and i doubt if there is any internal damage....just bring it to a welding shop have it TIG'ed and be done with it, no problem....

[sblt500r]

is the gas on? are you using gas? argon gas

[sblt500r]

aluminum is wierd. has to be real clean. make sure you get all the oil off of it.
don't burn holes in somebody alses cases !!

[sblt500r]

How hard is it to learn how to weld aluminum? I have an aluminum welder available I want to learn on.

not that hard if you have the right equipment and you have welded before.

[x.system]

aluminum is wierd. has to be real clean. make sure you get all the oil off of it.
don't burn holes in somebody alses cases !!

YEA! Don't be putting no holes in that mint case half :D

[sblt500r]

YEA! Don't be putting no holes in that mint case half :D

HA HA HA thats funny

[x.system]

not that hard if you have the right equipment and you have welded before.

I will get the specs on that welder tomorrow and maybe you can help me figure out how to set it up right and which settings to set it at.

[skippy]

pry marks?? and cracked it? good luck w those!!

[Billy Golightly]

is the gas on? are you using gas? argon gas


Yup, straight argon at about 25cfm or so.

[sblt500r]

Yup, straight argon at about 25cfm or so.
sounds like your using a flow gauge, i use guages at 10 to 11 pounds. holes are cause by unclean aluminum, too much air pressure, and the angle of the torch. the tungsten should only stick out as far as the openig of the hole of the ceramic cup. if you get aluminum on the tungsten it does that too. tungsten has to be clean and ground to a point.

[Billy Golightly]

sounds like your using a flow gauge, i use guages at 10 to 11 pounds. holes are cause by unclean aluminum, too much air pressure, and the angle of the torch. the tungsten should only stick out as far as the openig of the hole of the ceramic cup. if you get aluminum on the tungsten it does that too. tungsten has to be clean and ground to a point.


Hmmm...I'll try changing the tungsten again and setting the flow down a little bit and see what happens. Thanks for the advice.

[lisnup65]

I guess I am gonna rip her apart this weekend. I am assuming that I have more internal damage than external damage. The area that the cracks are is under the crank which would be suspect to a broken skirt at some point. The problem is that the trans oil is leaking from it from that point when full. That would tell me their is cracks internally allowing oil to seep into the crank area which I would assume is not good!!!! ???
Its amazing that this engine runs so strong with this issue. I do not notice a lean condition as the plug looks good, and I am not building any pressure in the trans area as I have no build up on the new vent hoses.
I guess its time to look for new cases or see if these can be welded. Anyone have a spare set they want to part with? This machine is most likely going to be parted on Ebay as I will not drop $600.00 in new cases.

[x.system]

Check your cases before you give up on it. I will bet they are more than repairable. I've seen some really bad cases repaired before in the crank journal and when its done right they are just as good as new. You still got a steal when you got that R, I wouldn't give up on it yet. I've sold cases in your condition for big money to so you can go that way to, then you wouldn't have as much into new cases. There are alot of guys on ebay that would buy those case halfs and repair them. I think I got about $200 out of my last set I sold and they had cracks in the crank areas. You can get new case halfs at service honda for $472.54 plus shipping

[lisnup65]

Check your cases before you give up on it. I will bet they are more than repairable. I've seen some really bad cases repaired before in the crank journal and when its done right they are just as good as new. You still got a steal when you got that R, I wouldn't give up on it yet. I've sold cases in your condition for big money to so you can go that way to, then you wouldn't have as much into new cases. There are alot of guys on ebay that would buy those case halfs and repair them. I think I got about $200 out of my last set I sold and they had cracks in the crank areas. You can get new case halfs at service honda for $472.54 plus shipping


Im gonna see what they look like when I get it apart. The machine was a good deal and I know I could easily get out of it what I have in it. I need new front calipers now as my brake issue is caused by excessive movement that cannot be compensated for. I was actually able to flex 4-4" C-clamps when testing the system. All is good, but when mounted up, they are hardly there. I replaced the slide pivots and all seals again. Same thing, so there is another $100.00 for an unknown, hopefully good used set.