200x forks

[pomona51]

I just put a 200x front end on my 85 sx and am worried because the shocks compress so much and easily. When I stand on the bike and jump up and down the forks compress ALOT!!! compared to the sx front end. Is this normal?

[Huffa]

No, it should be the opposite but then again you put them on a heavier machine which would make them softer then how they felt on a 200X.

Had they been serviced at all concerning a fork oil change? The amount & weight of fork oil plays a big role in bottoming resistence. Too little or too light in oil weight and it will bottom very easily. Springs could be too soft also for your model but I'd go with checking the oil level 1st on both sides. Know how?

Also the weight percentage from F to R of both machines varies. Yours weighs more + might be putting more of that weight on the front end. Due to the fact that the X forks are probably longer I would think the opposite holds true and there is less weight on front.

[pomona51]

I changed the oil and the man at the honda dealer said to put in about 213 cc of fork oil. I think I use 10w fork oil is that the right stuff to use. I do not know how to check the fork oil so any help would be great. How do i know if my springs are to soft. And do the seals have anyting to do with this.

Thanks.

[straight pipe]

how much air pressure you got in the forks? i like 20 lbs. 40lbs makes them rock hard. my forks were soft at first too until i pumped some air in them. now they are just right.

[pomona51]

Straightpipe It says im the manual that you are only supposed to go to 10 psi max

What weight oil did you use in the forks. I am using 10w

[straight pipe]

well try more. i tried 10 and it was wayy to soft put a bit more. the bike is heavier so the shocks need more air. i don't know of any bad side effects of running 20 psi but it does ride nice though, and i have no clue about the oil. i didn't check it when i installed it. i nocked on wood and just hoped everything would work out fine and it did.but the oil weight sounds right. i read up in my service manual in case i had to replace oil and that rings a bell. i don't have the book here it is back at the shop.

[Dirtcrasher]

You should all be running at least 1" spacers on top of the springs and 15 or 20wt fork oil. I believe 200X forks take about 7oz of oil. Progressive springs are even better...

I run no air, 1.250" spacers and 20 wt oil.

[pomona51]

I looked up the in the manual and it gave the standard specs for the front shocks.
Suspension
-front fork fluid capacity- after draining 215 cc or 7.0 oz
-specified level- 200m or 8.0 in
Air pressure
-standard- 0 psi
-range- 0-10 psi

What does specified level mean and how do you check it.

straightpipe wont that psi blow your seals.

[straight pipe]

blow seals..i have no idea!! i hope not. but i rode the crap out of it for 5 hours straight last weekend and it was flawless.i guess i put lots of faith in honda. i figure there specs are playing in the real safe side. i figured what's worse bottoming out all the time of running a few pounds more.

[pomona51]

Dirt how many spacers can you use and can you get them, at your local bike shop? And 10w oil is to light. If I had spacers and 20 w oil this will make it a harder to push down.

Thanks

[Dirtcrasher]

There really isn't a whole helluva alot happening in a 200X fork. I can't say if adding an oz would do anything at all except at some point blow the seal, just like air will -there oil seals not air seals. You remove the cap and spring, colapse the upper tube into the leg and measure the oil height down from the top to the oil level. Again, spacers and viscosity give the most noticable improvement,

[Dirtcrasher]

1" PVC has to have it's OD turned or sanded down just a bit to fit in the SX fork leg. I make them out of stainless steel tubing for mine. I wouldn't use washers but rather 1 spacer.

[straight pipe]

these spacers go under the spring or at the top?

[pomona51]

Dirt I am really sorry but i am only 19 and this is the first time I have ever done anything like this before. I am kinda of Dumb at this because I am new.
So I take of the top cap and take out the spacer first then the spring. How many springs are there. I collapse the top of the fork into the lower fork and how do I meassure the oil. You said meassure from the top to the oil. What is the top i meassure form.

Sorry again and thanks

[Huffa]

Adding air to the forks is real old school. As air heats up it expands which make them even stiffer. The worst part is that air has moisture in it unless you have a compresser that takes it all out. Moisture in your forks is no good at all.

Best to get them right without air and every once in a while, with them fully extended, bleed the air out.

[pomona51]

When I am on my bike when it is turned off and I jumop REAL HARD they seem like they are going to bottom out. How do i fix this.

[TimSr]

I wouldnt "fix" a problem you dont have. Suspension should be setup as soft as you can go without excessive bottoming out. If its compressing a lot, but not bottoming out, that is a good thing, not a problem that needs fixed. If you start bottoming out a lot, you might find that the extra weight from the sx is too much for the 200x springs, in which case you need to go to a heavier spring, or an aftermarket progressive rate spring. You can preload your existing springs with spacers, but that is a bandaid, not a fix, and if you are not bottoming out, you shouldnt do it at all.

Same with adding air to the forks. Adding a couple pounds is a bandaid. They should run at 0 psi fully extended. Adding adding over ten pounds is laughable. You might as well replace the springs with a straight piece of pipe!

[straight pipe]

learn somethin new every day! i guess i am stuck in the 80's. why would honda put air inlets if they are not nessasary?

[pomona51]

Do I put the spacers below the first spring or on top.

[TimSr]

When I am on my bike when it is turned off and I jumop REAL HARD they seem like they are going to bottom out. How do i fix this.

Seeming like they are going to bottom out is a lot different than bottoming out. You dont have a problem until they ARE bottoming out, and only then if ist frequently.

[pomona51]

Straightpipe I am with you all the way. The only reason why I would think they were there would to bleed them.

[pomona51]

Tim what weight oil do you think should be in there? 20w or 15w. I have 10w and was told that it is to light.

[straight pipe]

well for me i will take some advise. i will progessively leek down the pressure until they are just about to bottom out and run.and if it still seems too soft change oil to 20 weight... sounds good thanks for the education.

[TimSr]

Straightpipe, just jack up the front of the trike, under the frame so the front wheel is off the ground, and ist fully extended, then blled teh air, or vacuum from the forks.

The oil in the forks mostly affects rebound, and has only a small effect on compression so is not the best place to "stiffen up" your front end. Something around 5w or 10w is standard, Ive got 15w in mine, but will go back to 10w when I change it. I bought progressive springs from Denniskirk, and am running the full spacer that came with them, but will cut it in half, next time I service the forks. I weight 175 lbs. Mine dont bottom any more, which means they are unnecessarily stiff.

Spacers are most easily installed on top of the springs, but putting them between the springs would make do difference in the physics of it. You want them where you can pull them back out without turning it upside down!

[pomona51]

The progressive springs you bought what are they called so I can look them up. And you said that they came with a spacer. I weigh about 215 so do you think that this will stiffen it up. Do the seals under the dirt cap in the forks have anything do do with the siffness of the bike and how do i know when to replace them.

[Huffa]

Lighter oil but a hair more oil volume will leave fork work like factory intended till the last inch or so then it will stiffen up slightly quicker then stock.

Heavier oil but a hair more oil volume will slow the whole fork motion down and stiffened up quicker also toward end of travel.

Less oil and it will take less effort at the end of travel to bottom.

Heavier oil does not stiffen it up really.......it just slows the compression and rebound down.

Too heavy and the front won't want to follow the smaller bumps, too light and it will pogo up and down over bigger ones.

[pomona51]

When do I know when I need to change the seals in the lower forks . Is there supposed to be oil on the shock when it uncompresses after they are pushed down. The part that is covered by the frok boot.

[TimSr]

The seals need replaced when they start leaking. If you dont seal oil on teh tubes, and its not running down then the tubes, your seals are fine. They have no effect on how they perform. Their purpose is to keep the oil in there.

The springs are listed as progressive rate fork springs. The way they work is that the springs gets gradually stiffer, the farther it's compressed. This means you have a nice lighter than stock spring for the first couple inches for small bumps, and a much stiffer than stock spring as they get close to full compression. You get the best of both worlds. The preload spacers basically adjust at what spring weight you will start. For your weight, I would start with the full spacers, and then trim them down, if you never bottom out on your jumps.

[pomona51]

Are yours made for any certain model

[Huffa]

The seals need replaced when they start leaking. If you dont seal oil on teh tubes, and its not running down then the tubes, your seals are fine. They have no effect on how they perform. Their purpose is to keep the oil in there.

The springs are listed as progressive rate fork springs. The way they work is that the springs gets gradually stiffer, the farther it's compressed. This means you have a nice lighter than stock spring for the first couple inches for small bumps, and a much stiffer than stock spring as they get close to full compression. You get the best of both worlds. The preload spacers basically adjust at what spring weight you will start. For your weight, I would start with the full spacers, and then trim them down, if you never bottom out on your jumps.

Well actually Tim if you really want to get technical they do have an effect on the performance. If they create too much drag or stiction it will slow down the rebound & compression performance by a hair. Not much and doubt we would notice it but I'd just thought I'd point that out to anyone that cares..

[Huffa]

To check if you using all your travel measure the travel with springs removed and leave a boot off one (if bike so equipped with them). Now put a zip tie around tube all the way down at fork seal and lightly zip ti so it's taught but can stll move. Go out and ride a bit over some good bumps or jumps (with springs back in of course :D ) or for that matter the exact kind of riding you mostly do if possible.

Come back and measure how far the zip tie went up on tube. There will be no ? whether you think :wondering you are using all the travel now. If they only go 1/2 way of full travel and your really working the front end you know it's too stiff, too thick of oil, or too much oil or 20lbs :D of air!

[straight pipe]

eeeeyoowzers there is more to these front ends than i thought.you guys have trikes branded in your brains and that is exactly why i joined.got to lie down now got to let all this new info soak in....phew!!

[Huffa]

eeeeyoowzers there is more to these front ends than i thought.you guys have trikes branded in your brains and that is exactly why i joined.got to lie down now got to let all this new info soak in....phew!!

To confuse you even more if you preload the rear end more that will have a direct effect on the front end and so will adjusting the chain but there is no need to get that technical I guess but then again......Why the heck not? :D

You can also run a different weight spring in each fork. Both springs do not have to be the same weight.

[pomona51]

huffa so sre you saying that it is good to have front shocks that are eaisly compressed when puhed on. If not how would you fix the problem?

[Huffa]

huffa so sre you saying that it is good to have front shocks that are eaisly compressed when puhed on. If not how would you fix the problem?

Good only if your an old man that drives it around in the yard for chores! :D..........seriously if it's just used for that you want to use it all up in the yard. Why have 5 " of travel and only use 3 and suffer a crappier ride? So for that old man they will work just fine being super plush!

Not that I'm a fork pro because I'm faaaar from it but the 1st thing is to check the level of the oil with springs out and fully compressed. Stick a tape measure or anything down the tube till you just see it hit the oil then take reading at top (easier if 2 do this). While springs are out measure and check the standard length they should be. If they are much shorter then standard specs you know they are in need of new ones.

Try heavier oil or raising the level an 1/8 to no more then a 1/4 " at a time (or a combo of both). Takes veeeery little oil to raise it. The more oil, the less air space, the sooner they stiffen up.

Could be other internal problems too but thats where I would start.

I actually put less oil in my 225 then book calls for as they "seem" too stiff to me but can't tell for sure till I ride it.

[350x'inNY]

I swear by Progressive Fork Springs. They have different ones for different trikes (diameter differences etc) The "original" kits didn't use a spacer, the later kits are for use with more and more models, so they come with PVC spacers. They come with a washer to place between the spring and the pvc. You got to figure the 'k' value of the OEM springs has to give after 20 years of riding!

I do NOT run air pressure in my forks. I bleed the pressure off periodically. I use 20Wt oil. I'm 6'5" ~260 lbs ... so I need the resistance!

[Huffa]

I swear by Progressive Fork Springs. They have different ones for different trikes (diameter differences etc) The "original" kits didn't use a spacer, the later kits are for use with more and more models, so they come with PVC spacers. They come with a washer to place between the spring and the pvc. You got to figure the 'k' value of the OEM springs has to give after 20 years of riding!

I do NOT run air pressure in my forks. I bleed the pressure off periodically. I use 20Wt oil. I'm 6'5" ~260 lbs ... so I need the resistance!

You run taller bars and a thicker seat too then? You must make that 350 look like a mini 3 wheeler?

Hey, wait a minute now :wondering Aren't you the guy I emailed about riding? If so, and I'm quite sure you are, ya never got back to me.

[350x'inNY]

I'm sure I pm'ed you back.... load'em up and lets ride! I'm about an hour from the PA border at route 15 south of Corning NY

Actually, it's the 82R that looks like an ATC90 when I get on it. That's the one that I put the Hi-Flite seat on.

[shudup]

my honda sevice manual says to use atf 211.5 - 216.5 cc ( 7.15 -7.31 ozs )
and 0 - 10 psi of air

[Huffa]

I'm sure I pm'ed you back.... load'em up and lets ride! I'm about an hour from the PA border at route 15 south of Corning NY

Actually, it's the 82R that looks like an ATC90 when I get on it. That's the one that I put the Hi-Flite seat on.

Before I load em up, I got to finish em up! :D Honestly I got back into 3 wheeling by luck and not by choice and am enjoying every minute of rebuilding them even though I didn't ride yet at all. So if I remember correct isn't that up by Miles Mountain the motoxtrack? I have ridden there on mx bike end of last season andd also checked out Rocky Roost but have not ridden due to, well lets just say it wasn't quite what I had expected.

[350x'inNY]

I'm south of Rochester.... more Western NY than Central NY. 2 hrs West from Binghamton and 2 hrs East of Jamestown

[Dirtcrasher]

Dirt I am really sorry but i am only 19 and this is the first time I have ever done anything like this before. I am kinda of Dumb at this because I am new.
So I take of the top cap and take out the spacer first then the spring. How many springs are there. I collapse the top of the fork into the lower fork and how do I meassure the oil. You said meassure from the top to the oil. What is the top i meassure form.

Sorry again and thanks


Don't be sorry, being 19 you have life by the balls... There is no stock spacer on top of the spring. All the spacer I suggest does is put a bit more pressure onto the spring and that lifts the front end up. The spacer could be on the bottom or the top of the spring, doesn't matter. If you really need some I'll mail you a couple made from PVC that will fit right in. I changed mine from PVC to stainless when I got a lathe. Screw measuing the oil, If you've drained the old oil just dump in 7OZ and your all set. Best if you take them apart and clean them etc etc but just draining them is fine. Oil height may be critical in other aplications but I don't think in the SX with the X forks it will do much at all. Just use thicker oil.... Progo's are nice but 80$ or whatever shipped. You'll be fine with spacers and oil.

[shudup]

It may not be real good way to do it but I used a old baby bottle to get 7 oz when i did mine cuz I didnt have anything better :)

[Huffa]

If they were never drained I'd flush them out with kerosene also. You won't believe how much black gunk comes out of them. I always drain mine from the top.

[pomona51]

Dirt where can I get spacers around here to save you the time and the money. What size sapcer to need.?

Thanks so much . I have spring break next week so I really want this bike finished.

What are the stock length for the springs so I can check and see if need to replace them. If I order new springs I should get the bottom long springs right.

[350x'inNY]

Someone with a 200X service manual should have your length measurement for the tolerance. If you replace them, replace them with Progressive Fork springs. BikeBandit had a special on them last summer for $62. Those springs will replace BOTH of the springs in each Fork.

Bruce

[Huffa]

Someone with a 200X service manual should have your length measurement for the tolerance. If you replace them, replace them with Progressive Fork springs. BikeBandit had a special on them last summer for $62. Those springs will replace BOTH of the springs in each Fork.

Bruce

Hold on, I got a manual...........be back in a bit.

Top spring - no less then 5.7"

Bottom spring - no less then 15.4"

Should be a spring seat washer between the two when removing them.

[pomona51]

350xinNY are the springs that replace the olds just one long spring. I looked on bikebandit and it just shows one spring for the 200x replacement. And do these come with the spacers that I need

[Dirtcrasher]

350xinNY are the springs that replace the olds just one long spring. I looked on bikebandit and it just shows one spring for the 200x replacement. And do these come with the spacers that I need


New stock springs won't solve the problem. New progressive springs will solve the problem and don't need a spacer to work just fine. Or you can take your springs and just add a size 1" PVC spacer about 1.250 to 1.500 inches long and put it on top of your spring and be good to go. In hardware store form the 1" PVC is a bit to tight on the outside diameter and originally I used a sanding disc to sand it down a bit to fit inside the tube.

[pomona51]

So you think I will be fine for now if I just change my oil to a bigger weight because I am 215 lbs, say 15w or 20w. Then add a 1.5 inch spacer on top of the springs. Why wont new stock springs help out.

[pomona51]

Are these seals the right ones to get

Brand: LeMans
standard fork seals
$6.95
Model: 200x

From: www.Denniskirk.com

[pomona51]

Any help with the fork seals?

[pomona51]

I bought the progressive springs form bikebandit. When I get them all I have to do is take out the old ones and put these in? Do I have to put in any spacers or washers?

[Dirtcrasher]

I don't think the 200X stock has any spacers etc. Just pop them in and your good to go.They ought to be a great improvement. But you need to totally disassemble those forks to replace the seals. A thorough cleaning and checking of all the parts for wear and lots of times, slightly bent upper tubes. Unlesss you owned it since it was ne, chances are good that someone clocked a tree and you can't even see it until you loosen the fork in the triple clamps and spin it around.

[350x'inNY]

I always buy HONDA OEM fork seals... they come with new dust seals too. A "set" only does one fork though.... so buy 2.

Take the ring clip out and take the forks apart and do a thorough inspection/cleaning. Kerosene to flush... then parts/brake cleaner after. Check the bushing on the end of the fork tube. If you see the brass from the wear, you'll need to replace it.

I have a series of pics taken when rebuilding my 350X forks awhile back. Let me know if you'd like a copy of them

The Progressive springs will tell you what to do about spacers for each application. The 350X kits came with PVC spacers... I don't think the 82 R kit did.... if it requires spacers for the 200X, it will come with it. You might have to cut the length down if anything.

Bruce

[83185s]

im not lookin at paying that right now since im quitting my job..when i get a new job tho ill definetly pay that..i just want them to work..they work fine but the air bubbles i dont like hearing..it makes me nervous for some reason so ill replace the oil for now and change the springs later

[pomona51]

350 if you want to send pics that would be great.

[pomona51]

Huffa, When I pulled out my springs the top one was a little over 3 inches and the bottom one was over 19 inches. Compared to the specs that you gave me this does not sound right at all.