Servicing Front Forks on a 200s

[DeePa]

Do you guys think its necessary to service the front forks on my 85 200s when i know it has never been done to them? The shocks still work well, and i guess they work like they should, but is there any routine maintence that should have been done to the suspension over the last 20 years? Do the forks have ATF in them? Are they hard to service, and are there any tools necessary? I figure while i have the ass end apart, and im waiting on some stuff to reassemble it, why not do other random stuff while im waiting.

Also, I'm thinking about painting/powercoating the frame, so how hard is the engine to pull from the bike? I assume i dont have to split the cases, just drain the oil and set aside until its ready to go back in. Would the Carb have to be removed from the engine? How hard is it to rebuild if you never touched one before in your life?

Sorry for all the questions, but i see all you guys with these A+ trikes and i want one to show off too.

Thanks,
Mike

[jeswinehart]

yes ,,, it might be a very good idea to change the fork oil ,,, just so you know it's been done.
tranny fluid or 10 weight fork oil is acceptable ( 3oz per side ).
the drain is not the at the bottom of the fork , but just up form the bottom on the back side.
you will need to pull the carb to remove the motor ( and one heck of alot of other things too ).
TimmSr put it into words very well awhile back ,,, whats to wear out in the carb ??? you don't get much in a carb rebuild kit ,,,, if it needs anything at all it probbly just a good cleaning out with carb cleaner will do.

hope this helps ,,, john

[Huffa]

Deepa
A good ? that not many ask about draining the forks.

The stuff in their from the factory is junk. On ANY machine that has forks it should be changed after 10-15 hours of use. You get metal particals (microscobic) from the forks breaking in which is no good what so ever + that factory oil breaks down easily and gets dirty real QUICK from break in.

Then do so every 2 years or so........just depends how much you ride.

Here is the way I do it and the 1st part is NOT easy. Here is a link http://www.windowshopnepa.com/findpartsfor/honda/atv-atc-parts.htm that has a parts diagram so you know what I am referring to. Click on OEM parts after this link, then do steps 1,2 & 3 and find the fork part skimatic which is under "FRONT CUSHION FRONT DAMPER"

1) Take the # 13 ring stopper out at top of fork (once fork is off machine). This is the hard part and you have to compress the forks a bit while at the same time getting in there with a screw driver to get that circlip off. I used brute strength to do it on my Yamaha and it is NOT easy. You may want to just run it to the dealer for this part as thay have a special tool I think. If rusted on top you'll want to clean that area as good as possible. A dremmel with a little wire wheel works great! Too dirty and you can't even see that circlip, so clean it good if needed!.

2) now simply slide #12,27,2,4 & 3 out of the fork tube, drain oil and put some kerosene in and work the fork action up & down. Drain and do it once more till clean kero comes out. Too much kero and when you pump fork down it will come out top so watch. Let fork sit up side down till all kero drains out.

3) fill with a few onces of ATF and drain that then top off with recommended ounces of fluid.

I use Valvoline Max Life Dexron 3 ATF........it is for higer milage carsand helps condition seals. I figure it might help the fork seals last longer which brings up the ? How are your fork seals? Are they weeping at all when you pump the forks? See a fine film of fluid everytime you pump them or they are fairly clean?

[DeePa]

honestly, i never check on teh fork seals in my lifetime. Im thinking about getting off of my ass and pulling the front forks now, but is it too hard to do?
Its freaking cold in the garage and it isnt heated, so i dunno. Maybe ill go give it a whirl.

Ill let you know when i check it out.

Thanks everyone by the way, you guys are the best

[chris200x]

How do you know when it is time for a change of fluids? I know when I sat on mine it sounded like a squish or something maybe it sounded like there is water or something in there?

[Huffa]

Heck no, it's simple! Dissconnect brake cable, pull the axle out (taking note how collars (axle spacers) go if there is any) and front wheel, loosen the 2 pinch bolts per side at top (red part) and they should pull right out! Might have to give a slight twist or stick a screw driver in pich slot to spread the clamp opening a hair.

When you take the fork boots off bottom you will see the dust wiper. That IS NOT the seal. The seal is below that held in by a circlip.

The dust wiper (bing real careful not to scaratch tube!!!!!) can be carefully pried up with a screw driver. Best to use the dullest driver you have and pry at a few locations. Clean underneath wiper and inside fork where seal is and pump up and down. Thats the best way to check and see if they are leaking. Once wiper is up you should see the circlip and seal down there.

[Huffa]

How do you know when it is time for a change of fluids? I know when I sat on mine it sounded like a squish or something maybe it sounded like there is water or something in there?

:D I figured you never changed yours!! The fluid is so cheap there is no reason not to change it every year! 3 bucks or so for a quart and yours probably holds 8,10 ounces or so per leg! Depending how much you put in you can change the characteristics of the fork action. A heavier weight (thats for you Chris!) will suit a heavier rider also. Stock as they are they are probably waaaaay to soft.

Next time you come down I'll show you how. When I did my yamaha I actually put less oil in then recommended. They felt too stiff to me but won't know for sure till I ride the thing.

Those circlips at top absolutly BLOW! Usually the use a threaded collar that just screws in on top. I think your X is that way. Much nicer set up!

[chris200x]

Hey,Hey,Hey now easy on the heavy jokes! i did not notice that squish noise until I put it all back together (after the rebuild) and sat on it. Maybe that's something we should consider? Is it really necassary? I'm not trying to sound cheap! But how much can it really affect handling?

Deepa I'm sorry for interrupting your thread but this is a topic that I've not seen on 3WW in a while.

[dblshockpower]

Now that I've finished the rear end I'm going into the front forks and repait/repaint..but on a '84 200es I don't think there's any oil inside is there?? mine are seized open and I don't have a clue how to go about freeing them up, I see ne dampers are $41.00ea. any thoughts?

[Huffa]

I'm more concerned about the parts wearing out inside. The handling is 2nd. If your into jumping then the oil comes much more into play for fine tuning the forks. Hope you don't mind my jokes......all in fun! :D

[Huffa]

Now that I've finished the rear end I'm going into the front forks and repait/repaint..but on a '84 200es I don't think there's any oil inside is there?? mine are seized open and I don't have a clue how to go about freeing them up, I see ne dampers are $41.00ea. any thoughts?

I'm confused. What exactly is seized open? You have an S or an ES. You 1st said S. Not sure if that makes any difference though.

[dblshockpower]

Have an ES, and the dampers don't move at all.

[Huffa]

Seals can be done anytime but if they start weeping and run down the side of the legs it gets on the brake shoes sometimes. They get too saturated with oil then they are shot too.

Draining them from top you won't get any leaks. They are not like brakes where you have to bleed. Flush em out, dump some in, your done! .............and thats another reason why I don't drain from the bottom drain holes as they don't leave as much cude out with the small opening .

[Huffa]

Have an ES, and the dampers don't move at all.

Now I'm really confused! Do you guys have actual forks on them and if so you say they don't move?

[Huffa]

OK, I see you have forks.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/zHonda1984adsBigRedFull1.shtml

If they don't move a hair there is something wrong with the internals of them and your getting a rather rough ride towards how it should be!

TV time now for me :D Yeungling for you Chris!

[DeePa]

ok, got both dust seals out, but it seems that the inner most part of them broke off, so it isnt sealing too well.

The fork seals seem to be good, and do not leak at all. They seem good and firm.

I haver no problem with you guys asking q's im my thread, because it helps me and everyone else here too.

So its basically just a drain, cleaning, and a flush? And im done?

I have the fork with me here, so if i do it now ill let you know how it turns out

[dblshockpower]

Yep '84 200es has a front fork that moves and it's different than the 200s or m or x in that it has an internal shock (damper) inside the fork tubes and mine are seized..I'm going to take them apart in the next week or so and was looking for advice or tips from someone familure with big red's fork.

[DeePa]

i cannot get #13 off...i assume thats teh main seal correct? I punctured it with a screw driver, so now its leaking. I planned on ordering 2 new complete seal sets anyways, so its not a big deal. The ring was easy to get off, but i cant get this seal off for the life of me. Do I have to compress while trying to get this seal out? If so, i quit lol. This is really starting to piss me off.

Any advice, please give

Thanks,
Mike

[Huffa]

i cannot get #13 off...i assume thats teh main seal correct? I punctured it with a screw driver, so now its leaking. I planned on ordering 2 new complete seal sets anyways, so its not a big deal. The ring was easy to get off, but i cant get this seal off for the life of me. Do I have to compress while trying to get this seal out? If so, i quit lol. This is really starting to piss me off.

Any advice, please give

Thanks,
Mike

On the top of the fork tube is #13 which is the SNAP RING and above that might possibly just be a rubber cap which only serves as a dust cap.

I never explained to you how to do the fork seals at all yet which isn't up at the top at all. All I did is tell you how to pry the dust seal off that is at the top of the fork slider (lower leg) and then stated you can see the clip and main fork seal.

I thought your main goal was just to replace the oil?

Back up a hair and explain exactly what you did so far.

From what you are saying it sounds like you got the dust seal off at lower leg and are now trying to get the seal out with the fork tube still in the lower leg. You can't do it that way!

[Huffa]

Here is a picture of your set up. (200S) # 1 is the dust seal, #2 the circlip and #3 the fork seal. Is that (#3) what you are trying to pry out?

[DeePa]

lol yeah im trying to pry # 3 out...

no wonder it wasnt working to well...

how the hell do i get it out? Do i need to get it out? I need to on one of them because its leaking now lol.

Thanks again,
Mike

[chris200x]

I think your best bet would be is to get a repair manual. Or go to a web site like BikeBandit of partsfish and use there mirofische I sometimes find those more helpful than the books. Or just do what the 4500 other member do on this bouard and ask questions. I'm sure someboady will eventually give you the advise you seek. Good luck

[Wickedfinger]

While I have to commend most of you guys who are trying to help him out and I think its great that you are all trying - I do have to say that most obvious piece of advice that should have been given to him at the very first post was "You need to go buy yourself a Workshop Manual" especially when he made statements like
Do the forks have ATF in them? and
How hard is it to rebuild if you never touched one before in your life? so, thats what I'm going to recommend.

[dblshockpower]

What a mess.

[Huffa]

What a mess.

Not a mess at all really but I agree everyone should 1st read the shop manual, then ask when you get to a point in the directions that aren't quite clear to you.

I don't mind trying to explain it though which I WILL accomplish at this point now that I finally know what the heck he's doing. :rolleyes:

I was that exact way when I was a kid......I remember well. :D........try to fix, do more damage then you started out with, then finally take it to the shop and pay double because you screwed up! :D

[Huffa]

Here is a picture of your set up. (200S) # 1 is the dust seal, #2 the circlip and #3 the fork seal. Is that (#3) what you are trying to pry out?

OK, here is the exact way to do the fork seal replacement

Clean all areas to as well as possible before working on them!!!!!!!!

WEAR SAFTEY GLASSES!!!!!

1) Take the very bottom bolt out of the #4 fork slider. It is a allen bolt and not like it shows in the picture. To do so you might be able to get it by hand but possibly need to jerk it out with an air impact.
2) Now take the Snap ring out on top of #8 fork slider. You MUST press in slightly # 14 (fork cap) so you can pop the circlip out. Not easy but I always did it myself. Just have it CLEAN so you can veiw the circlip good!
3) Now carefully pop the fork cap out unless it already did go flying. :D
4) Now you can slide the springs and all the upper internals right out or leave in and just slide the whole upper slider out. That's why you do step 1............because the allen holds the #11 damper rod in place. The damper rod slides down through the #8 slider .
5) Then you simply pop the #3 clip out and with a dull screw driver pop the seal out. MARK THE EXACT SEAL HEIGTH ON THE INNER PART SO YOU KNOW JUST HOW FAR THE NEW ONES SHOULD GO IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6) While all this is being done you should have the new seals in the freezer for a good 20 minutes or so. This shrinks it ever so slightly so they will go in a bit easier. You install them by either using the old seals on top and tapping lightly around the seal or can use the right diameter PCV tubing to bump it in. Put a light coat of grease around the inner lip of seal and around the outside for installation ease of seal and sliding the upper slider tube back through.
7) Just reverse the procedure to finish it up.

Not capable of the job - go to the dealer or see if a memeber lives close by that will help.

[dblshockpower]

Very nice job Huffa...now if I could only get that out of someone who's done an 84 200es.