HEEELPPP ! urgent !

[bigredhead]

Ok.

i'm removing the left side case cover to replace the shifter pin and the gear shift pin..

I've been able to remove the starter cover and reduction gears, removed the foot peg, foot shifter, drained the oil, and removed all the bolts that hold the casae.

Now i have to remove the cover but it's stuck on there. I've got the heat on in the garage to warm things up. got a hair blower blowing hot air into the tranny and i don't dare try to split the cases with a flat head screwdriver....

HOW THE HELL DO YOU REMOVE/UNLODGE THE COVER !!!!

I have new gaskets to replace the ones on there if they get damaged.. but i canot remove the cover... :mad:

[MTS]

light taps with a screwdriver works good, just be extremly careful not to mar up the gasket surfaces, normally there is a little ridge ontop of the case that you can tap on from the other side of the motor to knock it loose

[mad_max]

This is on your SX right?

As I recall I had to unbolt the engine and lift it up a bit to get the cover off of mine. I think the lower part of the cover will hit the frame. As MTS says above dont mar or gouge the case.

[bigredhead]

yep the SX

I've found the 2 tabs that extent past the tranny case... and i've been tapping on them lightly. like said above i DONT want to crack that cover and it seems to be thin alum..

THe manual says it can be removed witht he engine in the frame.. goona be tight tho you're right !

So that's all there is to it ?

[mad_max]

Yep, just take your time.
Heres what it looks like when you take it off and remove the shift shaft

[Mr. Sandman]

Anytime you need to remove a head, cover, split a case, etc. use a plastic mallet or a hammer with a block of hard wood, oak/maple etc. If all bolts and obstructions are removed and clear it'll come off but you might have to hit it pretty hard.

[bigredhead]

GOT IT !

I had to use a paint scraper with a rubber mallet and gently wedge it between the cases... and little by little i got it.

HOWEVER>. now like was said above, that cover will not clear the frame. i need an extra 1/8 .. even 1/16 more room.. i think i'm goint to have to loosen up the motor mounts to wiggle it outa there.

Having a hard time sliding the cover over the plines on the shifter too, but with frame clearance i think it will go.

[Wickedfinger]

I had to use a paint scraper with a rubber mallet and gently wedge it between the cases... and little by little i got it. NEVER use anything like a flathead screwdriver or a chissle or a paint scraper to take any machined surfaced part apart. You would have been able to do it with a couple of whaps from a soft mallet. Consider yourself lucky if it dosent leak.

[short4stuff]

NEVER use anything like a flathead screwdriver or a chissle or a paint scraper to take any machined surfaced part apart. You would have been able to do it with a couple of whaps from a soft mallet. Consider yourself lucky if it dosent leak.

aslong as he didnt put any gouges or deep scratches in the metal. I think he will be ok.... I am sure he was careful when he was using it, and I am sure he knew what could happen .. thats why he didnt you a screwdriver.
Even if he did put a scratch on the gasket surface, alittle silicon would fix the problem.

[Wickedfinger]

aslong as he didnt put any gouges or deep scratches in the metal. I think he will be ok.... I am sure he was careful when he was using it, and I am sure he knew what could happen .. thats why he didnt you a screwdriver.
Even if he did put a scratch on the gasket surface, alittle silicon would fix the problem. No, this is one case where you are ABSOLUTELY wrong and would never let you or anyone else let that bad information get into someones head. You do not "wedge" anything between machined surfaces, ever.

[bigredhead]

I was VERY careful using the putty knife, i got the cases mooving ever so slightly from using a rubber mallet and a socket extention by hitting the tab that extends from the cases.. one on the left and one on the right.. then with the putty knife i wiggle my way into the middle enough to get it done.

Then we had to remove the motor mounts to tilt the motor and remove the cover completely.

Found this :

[bigredhead]

1st picture, there is play in the wheel with arrows to it, should that be tight ? or does it have play ?

2nd shows the shifter pin with a 45 degree worn end.. don't seem bad tho.. but i had bought a new one, i put it in for the hell of it.

[mad_max]

1st picture, there is play in the wheel with arrows to it, should that be tight ? or does it have play ?

2nd shows the shifter pin with a 45 degree worn end.. don't seem bad tho.. but i had bought a new one, i put it in for the hell of it.

bigredhead, I never took that wheel part off my SX so I cant tell you for sure. The problem is usually either that the pin broke (the pin you have there with a worn end) or that the shift shaft has deformed, bent or broken. Heres what your shift shaft should look like (see pic) the green area is where they get messed up.

[bigredhead]

That part was fine on mine, no cracks, dents, chips, or serious wear. Thanks max !

Can anyone fill me in on that item i pictured tho ?

[Dirtcrasher]

That arm is the shift drum stopper arm. When you select a gear it sits in a detent or groove in the shift drum and that is what keeps the shift forks exactly where they need to be and the gears aligned. If there is play in the wheel then that will allow the drum to have play back and forth instead of being locked into the gear.

That shaft or stud is the one that the SX always has come loose, but if you loctite it and it breaks you will have a tough time getting it out. They are also hardened and thats why they snap and why it may also snap if you overtighten it. The stud returns the shift shaft to the rest position waiting to be shifted up or down again.

The 45 degree or bevel on the end of it has no affect on it's function, it's just a spring return shaft.

The SX being an automatic works great, but if you abuse it like powershifting or jamming it in gear with the power on you will beat it up pretty bad. I have seen lots of SX's with shifting problems.

My favorite is when people remove that right angle output shaft to get the motor out or the swingarm off and then when reinstalled they lose a thin thrust washer located past first gear into the cases. Even though it is possible to get that shaft out and back in through all the gears that washer slips down and many guys miss it. It may work for awhile but then you'll lose 1st gear and wear out the entire drum and a few other goodies. It is possible to get the thrust washer back in there correctly but most guys don't even know that it happened.

What was the reason you tore into this in the first place??

[bigredhead]

The main reason i did was for a shifting problem, specially between 2nd and 3rd, ( it also does it on other gears, but more noticable on 2 and 3 ) you pull up on the shifter and you can hear a " CLACk clack clack "like the gears are not rengaging... most times you let off and pull it again and it engages, but the hair on my neck stands when that happens and i gotta fix it....

DADS on .org suggested checking under the cover for that pin and while in there i noticed this shifter arm wheel being loose... so before i re-assemble the thing i'll replace it.

That " Right angle output shaft... " can you elaborate please ? do you mean the shift shaft that the foot lever mounts to ?

Would you have any suggestions as to what else i should check while i'm at it !

[Dirtcrasher]

Yep, as I said that wheel will allow the drum to rotate and forks to move a bit preventing proper full gear engagement so that should be the problem. However, I'm willing to be that if it's been clanking around for awhile that you may have some shift drum and or fork pin problems because that wheel allowed them to smack around. Those parts are unfortunately inside the SX center cases. All you can do is try....

The output shaft is the part that the swingarm driveshaft attatches to and has the rubber boot. Lots of guys pull it out to take the motor off or to access the swingarm and then a small thrustwasher falls down and you have a similar clanking, clackity problem as your missing a .030 thick washer on the countershaft or right angle output shaft.

I bought an SX with no 1st gear and clackity noise. Found the washer in the bottom of the case but the damage was done and the drum and forks were junk. The previous owner admitted to removing that countershaft.

After many previous hours of investigating that problem I can now split an SX case and throw it all in a box and get it back together no sweat. The SX has to have the most crap in that motor of any cases I have ever split!! :w00t:

[bigredhead]

Cool. thanks for the info ! much apreciated !

BTW, i had to remove the frame mounting bolts fro mthe engine, except the very bottom one ( it was in there good !!!!! VERY good ! ) the nut came off the the pin was wedged in there harder than the tools i would have needed ! ( impact gun ?? )

So all but one bolt came out , we tilted the motor a 1/8 " and got the cover off. The Drive shaft was left in place , boot , and all.

( Considering opening up boot to check for thurst washer !! ) But not right now !... LOL

[Dirtcrasher]

That thrust washer will never be seen again unless the cases are split. Nothing is in the rubber boot except for a driveshaft.

That whole thing unbolts from the motor and out comes a 6" long countershaft. Then there is a big hole in the motor in which you can see all your gears and forks etc. It's actually a good way to sneak a peak in there but ONLY if you know what your doing.

Again, I only mentioned it - that thrust washer may be in there just fine. Especially if the problem started while you were the owner and you never touched that housing.

[bigredhead]

Good point.

I've e-mailed the previous owner and he says he never had shifting problems before... and i don't recall 100 % but i seem to recall this only starting a few rides after i got it. so .

I"m going to call Honda tomorrow and ask their service dept what they think of all this, the play in that wheel is aprox 1 to 2 mm's, but only in one direction ( you can spin the wheel and the play is still only on the 2 same sides. )

The swing arm bearings have a small amount of play in them as well, so i'm replacing them too, along with the entire set of 5 for the axle bearings, to go with the new brake drum and shoes.

That will take care of the entire rear end for quite a while ! and i'll know what i'm riding on ! ;)

[bigredhead]

oh.. hey a few quick questions on putting this back together properly.

I have new gaskets to put in , the old ones are obviously shot. Any tricks to removing baked on gaskets without harming the machined surfaces ? I've tried carb cleaner and a plastic scraper, but man.. they're stuck on good !

Should the new gasket be put on dry, or should it be oiled or prepped in any way ?

And once i do get it all back together.. should i lock-tite the case bolts ? or simply put them in dry ?

The frame mounting bolts were full of white aluminum oxide dust.. i'm cleaning them out and plan to grease them up good.. any suggestions or things i should know ? lock-tite on this too ?

sooo many questions.. so little time.. ugh. :p

[Trikeaholic]

be generous with gasket sealant called "aviation gasket" by loc-tite or permatex. Its like a sealing glue that will hold the gasket in place and not harden like silicone that could find its way into oil passages and starve a part of the motor. Loc-tite threadlocker is not necessary for the case bolts, definatley anti-sieze the thru bolts that hold your motor in the frame! Just tourque down the case bolts correctly little by little in the proper sequence! and you will have no problem.

[bigredhead]

Update :

Ok. Was up a bit late last night but finally got it fixed up.

Problem was indeed the shift stopper arm, that top riveted wheel needs to be tight and mine had about 1/16 th play in it.

Had a HELL of a !@%@%% time getting the spring in place ( that red arrow ) for anyone who ever has to do this, thread the bolt abut 1/2 way and with a pair of needle-nose you can. after 10 tries.. yeah clymer you joke of an instruction manual... argh.. then thread it in all the way.


The 2 spring loaded arms on the gear shift cam were a pain to get in place as well. but i managed, almost lost a spring in the tranny.. -phew.