Tri Z Complete Frustration

[redrider77x]

I have a 1986 tri z and since i got it it has had this problem where it starts up for about a minuite then dies. when i try to start it right after it fires then almost dies instantly, but if i wait i can usually get about another 30 seconds out of her.i have cleaned the carb numerous times, changed the coil, changed the cdi, cleaned the fuel tank put new fuel lines on it and it still does the same old shi*!!! PLZ HELP!!!!!!!! im to the point or tearing my hair out!!!!!!!!!!!

[a-camp]

Check my two replies for the tecate

[redrider77x]

i Have all clear fuel lines on the machine and it dosent seem to have a problem with fuel.

[mike from long island]

check the compression maybe it is low and needs a rebuild

[redrider77x]

Its got lots of compression my foot hurts from kicking the damn thing sooo much!

[a-camp]

What about the plug ?They could work til hot then die til it cools off. If its broke inside? Im fishing but this happend to me .And i tried everything but a second new plug for weeks.

[redrider77x]

ive gone through like three or four plugs and its always the same thing i even took it to a shop and they said it was the cdi but yamaha didnt make them anymore so i bought one off e bay and it still does the same shi*!

[a-camp]

I'll keep thinkin for you. Let me know how you do.

[03 ORANGE SHEE]

Take The Fuel Pump Apart And Check The Diaphrams For Tears!

[TimSr]

Take the gas line off the carb, and kick it over making sure that the fuel pump is working. It should squirt a bunch of gas each time you kick it.

[redrider77x]

ive put new diaphrams in the pump.I have also put all clear fuel lines on so i can watch the fuel flow and there is no problem with that.

[honda200]

is your carb not set right??

i dont know much bout Tri Z, so my opinions are long shot.... but i know its a ***** to tune 2 strokes

Curtis

[RideRed250R]

just cause u have top end compression doesnt mean trailprotrailpro bottom end is holding compression. also i had the same problem be4 my R blew up, mine had perfect compression when u kicked it but when it started it would loose it all. also check the reeds.
adam

[wolfspider]

this sounds like a choke problem to me, it starts ok then dies because it doesn`t need that much fuel anymore when warm.
i would take the choke lever out and clean it , maybe blow some carb cleaner and compressed air through it.
hope this works.
steve.

[TimSr]

Still sounds like gas delivery to me. While youre in the carb, go through the whole carb, pull all jets, blow out all orifices, and pay close attenting to the the float needle. If the needle sticks upward it will do exactly as you describe. Gas enters float bowl at a drip, and when its been sitting, and the float bowl is full, it works fine until runs long enough to empty the bowl.

[redrider77x]

i have bought a new choke assembly that was one of the first things that came to mind when i bought the trike. How do i check the compression in the bottom end ive never done it before?

[Wickedfinger]

i have bought a new choke assembly that was one of the first things that came to mind when i bought the trike. How do i check the compression in the bottom end ive never done it before?
You don't .... the specter of bad info is starting to roll in this thread I'm afraid. Also, bad reeds would only cause it to be difficult to start, not start then run. I'm with Tim on this one - but - just for giggles, check all of your connections and especially your grounding points for a good ground - dirt, rust and paint have played havoc with a couple of my machines grounding points in the past - especially my Z.

[redrider77x]

Dont mean to sound like an idiot but do you men where the coil is bolted to the frame if so where else?

[mike from long island]

i think what wickedfinger is suggesting is to check all conections. just pull them apart.maybe hit them with a wire bush and make sure they are clean and making good contact. i had a problem on a bike and all it needed was a good wire connection cleaning. it wouldnt hurt anyway. good luck

[a-camp]

Hey you might have a loose mufler bearing. Just kidding.All these are good logical ideas. Dont shoot any down to fast. At this point mayby try keeping it running With spaying WD-40 in the carb? Will take a friend or three hands.

[Fox250R]

Maybe it needs a good bump start!

[redrider77x]

no because it starts and i can ride it for sometimes like almost 40-50 seconds it runs but it just dies out and its not the carb because as its cuts out ive tried spraying wd-40 and i dont get another sputter out of it at all so i assume its electrical.

[TimSr]

no because it starts and i can ride it for sometimes like almost 40-50 seconds it runs but it just dies out and its not the carb because as its cuts out ive tried spraying wd-40 and i dont get another sputter out of it at all so i assume its electrical.

Until you actually verify fuel going into the float bowl, you cannot eliminate this as the most likely cause. I have no idea what WD40 is going to tell you, or where you are spraying it into the carb at, and I highly doubt it will run on WD40 but you have got to make sure fuel is flowing all the way through the float needle and keeping the carb bowl full. Spraying WD40 on leaks in the intake of a running motor with result in a noticeable RPM change, and it can be used to help detect intake vacuum leaks. It wont show fuel flow problems. You cant get fuel into the bowl from the fuel line if the float needle is stuck or held closed. Your transparent fuel lines will not it going from the line through the needle and into the carb bowl. On a normal bike, you can simply take the 17mm plug off the bottom of the carb, and turn the gas on and see if it pees out the bottom, but with a TriZ you have the fuel pump factor. You can either gravity feed gas into the line and see if it comes out the bowl plug at a high rate of speed instead of dripping, or you can take the carb off and visibly verify that the needle is not stuck, AND spray carb cleaner through each orrifice with that little red tube that comes with each can, to make sure they are clear all the way through. Checking these things will cost you nothing, and a periodic cleaning of the carb and verifying orrifice openings is good periodic mantenance anyways. At the very least, it will eliminate fuel flow as a problem.

You other option is to listen to a bunch of people make a wide variety of electrical part guesses at your expense. Keep in mind we, unfortuneately have many board members who are very happy and more than willing to hand out advice regardless of whether they actually know anything, because its your money they are spending. Ill tell you what theyll say in advance - replace the stator, replace the coil, replace the CDI, and a few hundred dollars later all you know is whether any of those fixed it. Its a lot less expensive to actually do a little systematic troubleshooting.

When it dies you should first immediately pull the plug and check for spark. If there is good spark, your problem is very unlikely to be electrical. If there is no spark, immmediately try a different plug. I dont care how old or new it is. It takes less than 30 seconds to foul a new plug. If spark comes back with a new plug, immediately retry the old one to make sure its a plug problem, not a wire problem.

These simple tests will cut your possibilities down to about 10% of all the ones that will be suggested in this thread.

If you have compression in the bottom end, this a problem, because vacuum is generated in the bottom end which is what drives your vacuum driven fuel pump. You get vacuum leaks in a bottom end, not compression leaks.

[3Razors]

Listen to Timsr, i agree about the fuel pump problem, the Tri-z fuel system is different than most all bikes on here.

[BIGCRIP28]

try spraying carb cleaner instead of WD-40. it works alot better

[redrider77x]

I have had the carb off and apart sooooooo many times i swerar i have never seen a cleaner carb. when it dies i have tried opening the bolt on the bowl and there is still fuel in there. and how you say to check the spark plug, thats not gonna do me any good because i know there is spark but whaen it dies if i kick it right after it will run for like a second or two so i know there will be spark then too

[TimSr]

Have you removed all jets, and blown something through each orifice and made sure it comes out somewhere else? You cannot "see" a dirty or clogged carburetor. Have you actually checked the operation of the float needle valve? Does gas not only pass through it, but pass through at a very high flow rate? Does it stop flowing when you lift up the floats? How many seconds does it take to get the bowl plug off after it dies? I ask because if your flow is restricted rather than stopped, which is what usually happens, if it takes you more than 20 or 30 seconds to get the bowl plug out, (which it does) it could fill again by that time and not tell you anthing.

What does the spark look like when it dies? What happens with a new plug (not another used one) right after it dies?

Im trying to help you, and save you a bunch of money, because believe it or not, Ive had to diagnose this exact problem once or twice in my lifetime, on this very model but if you are convinced that my methods wont determine your problem, maybe somebody else has some better ideas.

[redrider77x]

my friend has a shop and i totaly disasembled the carb let it sit overnight in varsol then blew every orifice out making shure it was clean, cleaned all the jets (i even took a pin and made shure they were totaly smooth and clean). the float valve works great everytime, no binding or sticking. when i checked for gas, as soon as it died i pulled the fuel line off then checked. i can change the plugs all i want and its still the same.

[BLAZERONE22]

Did you ever get it going???? I'm doing a little research here, seeing what I'm getting myself into. lol

[Bill X_R]

and see if it pees out the bottom,

Sr. said "pee", I thought this was a family board...lol

Sorry I have nothing to add other than my comic relief (I use that term loosly)

[atczack]

Do like the other guy said, fill a seperate container with fuel and gravity feed it into the carb, if it stays running it's something wrong with your fuel pump/vacuum hoses system, if it doesnt, it would most likely have to be carb adjustment/float probs. Plus this is a free troubleshoot deal like Tim said. Ive only been with this site a short while but it seems Tim know's what he's talking about most of the time.

[Derrick Adams]

Well, I've been watching this thread and I don't like to give advice when I'm not positive in something, especially when there are others on the board that have more knowledge at this than me, BUT this time i'm going to.

I would suggest to you that you try to run the bike with the gas cap open. I say that because i'm wondering if your vent tube is plugged. This very thing happened to me at a hare scramble and i've never forgot it. Fits all the descriptions you've mentioned, plus it's free to try.

If the tank can not draw in fresh air it should stop fuel flow.

[NICKG]

from what you describe it is most likely one of these
floats too low
fuel petcock clogged
tank vent clogged
fuel pump not working correctly
derrick's suggestion was a good first start......bet it's fixed

[sandrooster]

Is there a tank fuel filter?

Hows the air filter and the rest of the intake system as far as air leaks go. Use water in a spray bottle around the joints while its running.

Check the head for flatness and head gasket for a good seal with no coolant leaking by. If its not perfectly flat, the gasket might leak air and/or coolant after the motor warms up.

[gasmask]

i had the same problem. as i rode my r for a few seconds it would shut off. i noticed that my on off switch had a bad connection. as the bike vibrarted alittle it would cause the switch nob to cancel out. i got something to shove under the on off nob to keep it still as i rode the devil out of it...it did not shut off... i replaced the switch. no more problems... that's just something to look at...

[BLAZERONE22]

Well I got mine to run off gravity feed this morning.lol Boy the tri z is a different animal compared to the honda. Mine was missing a couple parts off the carb. fixed that and hooked up a long fuel line to it. I idles a little high, but I think it has the wrong throttle cable on it. It has a twist and It looks to be holding up the slide a little. And there's no more adjustment. So I went to work on the fuel system, I dumped the tank and cleaned that up. Looks like my fuel pump is not pumping so I'm to the point where I should have a manual. what usually goes bad with the pump? the diaphrams look okay. but I should probally rebuild it anyway. Where's a good place to start looking for parts?

[Redrooster]

I agree with feul delivery theory. Had same problem with one of mine and i rebuilt carb after doing pump, thinking it was that, and it runs great.

[TimSr]

They rarely fail. If the diaphram is not cracked or puntured, make sure the little one way valves are clear of anyting holding them open. The most common problem is with the vacuum hose getting pinched or cracked.

[Redrooster]

I have heard that the spigot on the cyl. where vacuum line fits on can crack and also cause leak.

[Wickedfinger]

.... the clogged or pinched tank vent hose theory is not really applicable in this case because the fuel delivery system is "pressurized" by the pump and not gravity feed. I do agree, however that that could be a very real possibility on a normal machine and have seen that happen quite a few times - the most recently with my friends 500 Scrambler.

[BLAZERONE22]

Well the diaphrams all look good, no clogs anywhere. I've kicked it over with the coil wire off and the fuel line to the carb off, still no fuel to the carb. Any Idea's? Now the line from pump to the front of the motor is where the pump gets it vacuum right? that also seems to be okay. Where;s a good place to buy parts for the ole Z? Also my airbox is missing the air filter. Do I need the element guide for a uni filter?

[TimSr]

There should be a a line that goes from the pump to the base of the cylinder on the right side of it. Make sure you are getting vacuum on that hose as you kick it over, and make sure its not plugged, especially in the fitting.

You should also put a hose on the inlet of the petock, turn it on, disconnect the gas line at the carb, and you should be able to blow on the line you put on and blow through everything right out through the gas line.

You will need the plastic cage for the Uni as its a foam element. I prefer the K&N myself, which does not use it.

[Wickedfinger]

... after my Z's rebuild, I had to prime my pump by taking the vacuum tube by the mouth and "pulsed" it manually.

[YTZ250#1]

The tank vent can be a problem.a freind of mine has an 85 Z.we were out riding one day and it keep staling out.I fixed his problem by removing the tool kit he had on top of the vent hose under the seat.it ran fine after that.
If it were me having this problem with my Z,I would start with the fuel like tim said.when you are 100% sure that the pump,and carb are working rite(and carb adjusted properly) then check electrical.If you get into that,check the coil first.make sure it has a good ground,and it passes an ohm check.Good luck

[redrider77x]

I still cant get her going. I have had it with tinkering around with it and it still doing the same thing im just going to take it to my local small engine guy and say dont give it back to me until it is fixed. Ill let you know what was wrong with it when i get her back.

[xtremez]

still havent got her going,you say you have spark and got fuel,I find it hard to believe that if you have fuel in your bowl it is a fuel problem,second have you rode through water lately have you checked out your stator,magneto to make sure there isnt any water in there,i once worked on a big red that had this problem,it had water in the bottom of the stator cover,it would get spark and fuel would run for 15, 20 minutes sometimes less and just die.It drove me crazy i pulled out magneto and used fine sand paper just to clean it up so the magnets would have a cleaner surface to ride around.and never had a problem again.Let me know? what you find very interesting considering i own a z myself

[YTZ250#1]

Just wondering if you did any of the test's that were sugested?or if you just got feed up and pawned it off ? You should know how to fix it if your going to ride it.Just my 02.

[redrider77x]

No not yet its too cold to do anything to it now, im going to wait for spring.
But thanks!!

[redrider77x]

i finally dug it out of the garage today and put a test light on the orange wire from the coil. The light goes out instantly when the engine dies so it has to be the stator. what coil do i need to replace inside the flywheel?