Super Hunky responds to emails sent last month

[Billy Golightly]

Mywifeknowseverything posted the transcript at .org and I couldn't find it on the Dont ask column but I finally did, heres the link:

http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/columns/editorial/3wheeler/

He made a reply to all of our emails, and I'll quote it here:




I decided to answer all the three wheeler questions, accusations, insults and such at one time. First off, some background is on order. For those who don't who I am, or what my riding experience is, here's a brief synopsis:

After riding both street and dirt for 10 years, I started Dirt Bike Magazine in 1971. During my first stint at Dirt Bike, I rode literally hundreds of different dirt bikes, from minis to four strokes.

I then went to Modern Cycle as editorial director and was in charge of Modern Cycle, Dirt Rider, Mini/BMX Action and Street Bike magazines. Again, I had the chance to ride everything from BMX bikes to MXers to road rockets, and everything in between.

Advertisement

After that, I returned to the helm of Dirt Bike for seven years. During that time, I rode the first three wheelers and Odysseys that Honda brought out. Until 1985, I tested at least one three or four wheeler per issue. When I first tested the three wheelers, something was dreadfully wrong with these creations from the git-go. More on that later.

After Dirt Bike, I took over Off-Road magazine for about four years. There I tested trucks and the occasional quad, as well as raced trucks professionally on the SCORE and HRDA circuit.

I returned to Dirt Bike a third time, this trip as Senior Editor, which allowed me to continue racing trucks for about six years. During this time, I used Quads now and then to pre-run a course. I never used a three wheeler.

Which brings us to Old Bike Journal for a few years, and eventually to Off-Road.com, which you're reading now.

Now, to the three wheeler itself.

No other off-road vehicle was ever taken off the market willingly by the manufacturers. None. Nada. Zip.

Why? Simply because they were getting sick and tired of getting sued and losing. Ever heard of an ATV leg break? It never existed until the three wheelers became popular. In the ATV leg break, the pilot rides over his own leg with rear tire, breaking it and twisting it during the snap. Then, when the leg is released, the broken bones are pulled back in placed by the stretched tendons and muscles. In the process, muscles and nerves are pinned by the broken bones, often severing and cutting them. Fixing an ATV break was a nightmare and the number of people who have a serious limp is scary.

Injuries aside, the concept of a backward triangle being propelled at speed is frightening, at the least.

Question: What's the best thing about a three wheeler?
Answer: Anybody can ride one. It takes no skill.

Question: What's the worst thing about a three wheeler?
Answer: Anybody can ride one. It takes no skill.

That, in a nutshell, is what makes the three wheeler a genuine mess. People who have no skills whatsoever take the controls and wobble into the distance. That's when the real trouble starts. While it's no problem controlling a three wheeler during slow going, when you go fast and hit a bump, all hell breaks loose.

When you ride a two wheeler, you learn to respect the bike immediately. It wobbles, won't stay upright easily and scares you. You know that if you do something stupid, you're going to get hurt. Bad. As the bike gains speed, it becomes more stable. The exact opposite of riding a three wheeler.

Yes, a three wheeler is very stable when it's at rest. A bike is not very stable at rest. But the purpose of an off-road vehicle is to move. And this is where the three wheeler has its problem. At anything over running speeds, the trike is incredibly unstable on anything that might be considered a mild obstacle for a bike. And there's the hard to shake habit of putting a leg down to save the trike and resultant run over the lower leg.

But the biggest drawback to the three wheeler, is that the jerk factor is so high. You see more newbies, irritating people, pinheads and outright assholes on trikes, buzzing campsites, spinning donuts in crowded conditions, driving wildly without helmets … or shirts … or boots … or in flip-flops.

Yep, you see the worst of the worst on trikes.

That's my opinion. I welcome yours.

I want to know where he gets off saying three-wheelers are easy to ride and that they dont scare you. ANYONE that has ever got on one and went more then 20ft and tried to turn knows they better be on their toes or they'll be on their *** instead.

And what is this?
"No other off-road vehicle was ever taken off the market willingly by the manufacturers. None. Nada. Zip."
They still making Oddy's, Pilots, Big wheels? Did I miss something?

Notice how he totally sidesteps my main concern, which is how he was effecting our efforts to try and convince people that they are NOT dangerous, and how by him doing that he is also shooting himself in the foot.

http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/columns/editorial/freekstyle.html

In this article, Rick writes about how a commercial for a video game depicts off-roaders as setting forest fires and roosting mud all over cute animals, and the reprecussions of it. A quote from that article:


Is there anyone in your company with common sense? I've been in the editorial end of this business for over 30 years (Editor/founder of Dirt Bike Magazine, Editor Modern Cycle, Editor Off-Road, Editor Old Bike Journal, etc., and have worked hard to salvage something of the image of off-roaders. And here you are, in one outrageous ad, blowing all of our work out of the water. You're glorifying the punks and scum of the sport, and tossing fuel on the fire to start a stampede of public opinion against all the "normal" riders out there.

Holy trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro, That sounds awfully familar! Could it be, That we are in the exact same shoes as him now, and he's acting as EA?



More on this later, I've got alot of trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro going on between now and next weekend, but He'll be getting another letter.

[Yamahammer490]

I saw the article on Monday and sent him a very polite reply pointing out a bunch of flaws in his logic. I'm curious what he will say, if anything.

I've read his stuff for 25+ years now and he's never changed his tune on trikes, so I'm guessing our arguments will be to no avail but maybe we can change the minds of the public.

Or, maybe he'll just correct my grammar...

[TimSr]

Sadly, the intelligent, respectful, well thought-out arguments will be forever masked by those who chose to make us all like like morons by throwing a bunch of name calling and profanity at him instead of making a logical argument and rebuttal to the facts. To the impartial reader, this guy comes out looking rational while we come across looking like a bunch of hot headed juvenile morons. I thank those who bothered to think, but some of the responses made by "trike supporters" are an embarassment, and did a lot more damage than they did to convince anybody of anything.

[bigredhead]

Bwaaahhh... hahahaahaha... reverse triangle...LOL.. ain't that a screwup in words !

I ride my trike responsibly, and i wear my helmet and shoes and shirt, there are idiots in all walks of life, 2 , 3, 4 or more wheels.

I'm actually writing Honda an e-mail right now regarding obsolete parts ! ( after being told by my local honda dealer that i can't order a brake drum for my sx.. )

He also chose to post the more " colourfull " e-mails he received.. looks kinda bad on all our behalf..... :cry:

[Billy Golightly]

Yes, so either write something constructive and correct or dont write it at all.

[NICKG]

well is he really saying something untrue? not really, are 3 wheelers inherently unstable? yes, of course they are. the problem is that some of us are so narrow minded on this. the big issue that caused the demise of the three wjhellers was thefact that ANYONE could ride it...by this i am saying that it takes no skill, no training...but fact is that it takes a lot of skill to ride a three wheeler, by design it is less stable than a 4 wheeler and has more weight than a motorcycle (and the ballon tires are not suspension btw) the very physics of the triangle make it less stable than a quad...how many triangle shaped cars are there? i will point out a few things here, three wheelers are cool, but they are dangerous. the vast majority of all sever injury is cause by sheer stupidity, look at the guys who proudly post pictures of themselves wheeling there atv's(3 or 4 wheeler) with no helmet? look at the fools who ride in shorts, no proper boots(don't tell me you can't afford them...you can afford the atv can't you?) seriously, didn't we as a community bring this on ourselves? you bet. the trikes are gone for a reason, 4 wheelers were taking off and the advertising was correct, they ARE inherently safer than 3 wheelers. if you can't see it, you are pig headed. I have raced all formes of dirt bike, trikes and quads(some at the same track on the same day in all 3 classes) i can tell you that if you learn on a motorcycle, you have a tendency to use your feet as outriggers to maintain balance, and that IS dangerous on a trike as you need to have the inside wheel slip to turn. as an experiment to show you what i mean, ride a quad then a trike then a motorcycle somewher that has really good grip like a parking lot or street. get gouing about 20 mph and try to turn...the trike is by far the hardest to do so with out lifting a wheel off the ground ...it takes a lot more skill than the average person realizes. now think about this, who taught you to turn it, what was the first impression of it? how did that change when you just tried to turn on the road at 20mph? bottom line is that it is OUR responsibility to let others know when we see them riding with no helmet, no prper gear and in a stupid manner that it is not cool and is unacceptable. I agree with super hunky , I always did because it is the truth. if you cannot swallow this, it is a shame. as far as the other things like the bw and the odessys ...they stopped making them because of poor sales.....how many oddesys did they really sell? not many bw? they did not sell well either or the pilots or the fatcats. think of how many you see of them and rethink your statement closely, if they sold in droves, there would be tons around used still example. honda made 20,000 85/86 250r's....not many considering they make 125,000 ttr 125's a year is it and like 35,000 blasters and they are all over the place. kawasaki made less than 7500 85 tecates btw... cannondale 6000 units in 5 years, they are around. looks like history will agree with them not selling well

[3Razors]

Good post NICKG

[Jeb]

As I've said before I always enjoyed Super Hunky's editorials in DirtBike.

I still think he doesn't give 3-wheelers as off road machines a fair shake. Nobody can question his background, he's got quite an off-road resume. I know he's got to respect the skill involved with the men who used to race 3-wheelers in 80s even though he may not like three wheel ATVs personally. He's not the only dirt-biker in history to despise "those guys on 3-wheelers". Truth be known, the 3-wheeler's past popularity with the inexperienced was and still is it's greatest downfall. The man makes some points when it comes to the human factors involved.

Some of our fellow "enthusiasts" really shot our cause in the foot. It's the jack-@SSes and morons he spoke of that sure don't help. And sounds like they came out in force to champion our cause. Thanks for nothing.

[Billy Golightly]

Rick,

Billy Golightly here again, just got done reading your reply to my/others emails.


In my previous letter, when asked what models you had rode I was trying to point out the differences between the years and the evolution that they had experienced. You said you rode at least one per issue up until '85. 1985 was the turning point for trikes when they became more advanced, and as a result more stable.

In 1985, Honda released the ATC350X, and re-made the ATC250R. Both trikes featured full suspension that is just as good as motocross bikes from the same era, and it continued into other models, and even different manufactures. In fact, the ATC250R was the breeding ground for Honda's "Pro-Link" suspension that is STILL used on today's high performance quads 20 years later. Can't be that bad. Rick I think you had a bad experience with an early non-suspension model, and haven't felt the difference between the different stages of evolution. You don't want to go hauling across some whoops on an ATC90 without suspension, and I don't want to do it on an vintage bike from the 1960's that has suspension travel akin to riding a brick with iron wheels between it and the ground.

You admit that the problem with running over your own leg is when you put it down while turning, a dirtbike riding habit. This is the riders problem, not the machines. If I open the door to my truck and stick my leg out while going down the road and fall out, is it the trucks fault?

Yes, there are people who ride three-wheelers who are blatantly dis-respectful to all things, but you know just as well as I do there are dirtbike riders that do the same thing. There are some of those in every group. My group is the group that takes pride in restoring these machines, and teaching other people who have been warped by the media and stories of them "Being illegal" that they are not the baby killers they are made out to be. Statistics consistently show that the people who are injured or killed are riding drunk and without any kind of gear: http://www.epi.hss.state.ak.us/bulletins/docs/b1985_07.htm

"Blood alcohol levels were measured in 11 individuals who survived less than 4 hours following injury. In 8 individuals, the BAC exceeded 100mg%, the level of intoxication. Two others had blood alcohol detected, but at levels below 100mg%. "

If I'm reading this correctly, one person out of 10 had not been drinking when they had an accident and were killed? Thats a pretty hardcore showing of rider error vs machine.

"The most frequent contributing factors cited by police were alcohol (20.3%), speeding (16.2%), driver inexperience (12.6%), and driver inattention (11.3%). "



In your article you wrote back in 02, about the "Freekstyle" video game ad for the playstation you had this to say in one of your letters:

"I've been in the editorial end of this business for over 30 years (Editor/founder of Dirt Bike Magazine, Editor Modern Cycle, Editor Off-Road, Editor Old Bike Journal, etc., and have worked hard to salvage something of the image of off-readers. And here you are, in one outrageous ad, blowing all of our work out of the water. You're glorifying the punks and scum of the sport, and tossing fuel on the fire to start a stampede of public opinion against all the "normal" riders out there."

And this is exactly what we feel like is being done to us. What was your reaction to seeing that clip from your editorial on the Bennet lawfirm website? Did it at all anger you, like the video game advertisement? Or did you laugh and scoff at it like the people who read your complaint letter? Your resume is undoubtly lengthy compared to anyone else in the industry, Why have you made such a crusade against three-wheelers alone?


Billy

[Billy Golightly]

There is my letter. I will probably be sending it tonight.

[Quickonstep]

it seems talking to that guy "Super Hunky" is like clapping with one hand, its impossible.

Jesse

[Jeb]

Billy, the ProLink's breeding ground was on Honda MX bikes in the late 70s. You might change it to read something along the lines of "Honda's adaptation of the MX-bred Pro-Link to the ATC250R layed the foundation for ATV rear suspension designs for years to come." Or something to that effect.

[Billy Golightly]

Oops, thats kind of what I meant but your right that'll come out the wrong way and I'll get jumped onto for it :P

[Yamahammer490]

Wait a second, NickG. Rick takes lot of liberties with the facts and his opinions. For example, he states that trikes are the only off-road product to be voluntarily taken off the market. Without getting hung up on "off road" lets just hear him agree that lots of products were voluntarily taken off the market even though they were selling well. It hapens to consumer products all the time and is often more due to political pressure then recognition of a truly flawed product.

Secondly, darned near every consumer product is sold with some known flaws and design compromises. He often makes it sound as though the manufacturers had some conspiracy to try and sell "dangerous" vehicles to a pure, innocent, unsuspecting public. Bullcrap. Any vehicle is dangerous as hell when misused. Yes, quads are more stable but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have the opportunity to purchase less stable vehicles if we want. Following that logic maybe the CPSC should voluntarily call for the auto manufacturers to stop all sports car production because they are aren't as safe as four-door sedans.

Next, he alway points out the "jerk factor" and blames trikes. Truth is, trikes were the first widely available vehicle that could be driven by somebody while paying little or no attention to the piloting task. You can't ride a dirtbike to any degree while holding a beer in one hand while balancing your baby daughter over the tank. Trikes allowed such irresponsible behavior and he's blaming the trike instead of the user. It's the same argument as saying that guns kill people, SUVs cause accidents and keyboards cause spelling errors.

That been said, I agree with the balance of your assessment. We should criticize those that ride recklessly and cause harm to others. We should be hard on those that wreck it for the rest of us. I just wish he'd do it without blaming the machine as much as the operator.

Man, I gotta switch to decaf... :D

[NICKG]

well let me interject this....you are trying to explain to a guy that loves his apples(dirbikes) that oranges(atv's) are better. how many of us here learned to ride on 3 wheelers? how many on quads? how many like me, on motorcycles? how many her think twist throttle is stupid? how many here like me feel that thumb throttle is stupid? how many here can use both? not many, i know i can but not well till i get used to it. I learned on bmw and then motorcycles, when i got my first trike gues what it was? a tecate, did i run my leg over? absolutely, in fact i still have the scars. does anyone here think that the hrottle systems ny have played any effect on people losing control?
i do, i have only seriously hurt my self once, i got off my kx80 and got on my freinds alt 125. i rode it down the same trail i rode my 80 on at wot, at first i figured this was cool, so i hopped on and proceeded down the same trail, mind you an alt is a ballon tired machine, so i go down 100 feet and bounce out of control and fly headlong into a tree, breaking my left hip and leg at the hip joint. was it suzuki's fault? no. it was mine for not thinking. how many guys here think that it is hard to ride a motorcycle? i bet the guys who learned on atv's do. the biggest issue i see that contributed to a lot of three wheeler accidents is the ballon tires and lack of suspension. by saying 85 was a turning point you are copping out. it takes a minimum of 18-24 months to see a major redesign on major manufactured items to get the designs and tooling made. the 85/86 trikes were all designed knowing that the quads were coming and that the trikes were being phased out...look at todays 4 strokes, you think it was cheaper to make them than a 2 stroke? no way, the laws banning 2 strokes are on the books for 2006.
86 was a stop gap for the change over to quads, 87 was just a filler too to make up for the lack of smaller utility models .

[Jeb]

There's another problem with this that goes way past the handling characteristics of a small off-road vehicle.

The government got involved to protect us from ourselves. Can a nation truly be free when "Big Brother" decides John Q. Public doesn't have sense enough to get through every day life let alone operate an off-road recreation vehicle??

Where does it end? 4-wheeler riders beware!

[NICKG]

Wait a second, NickG. Rick takes lot of liberties with the facts and his opinions. For example, he states that trikes are the only off-road product to be voluntarily taken off the market. Without getting hung up on "off road" lets just hear him agree that lots of products were voluntarily taken off the market even though they were selling well. It hapens to consumer products all the time and is often more due to political pressure then recognition of a truly flawed product.

Secondly, darned near every consumer product is sold with some known flaws and design compromises. He often makes it sound as though the manufacturers had some conspiracy to try and sell "dangerous" vehicles to a pure, innocent, unsuspecting public. Bullcrap. Any vehicle is dangerous as hell when misused. Yes, quads are more stable but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have the opportunity to purchase less stable vehicles if we want. Following that logic maybe the CPSC should voluntarily call for the auto manufacturers to stop all sports car production because they are aren't as safe as four-door sedans.

Next, he alway points out the "jerk factor" and blames trikes. Truth is, trikes were the first widely available vehicle that could be driven by somebody while paying little or no attention to the piloting task. You can't ride a dirtbike to any degree while holding a beer in one hand while balancing your baby daughter over the tank. Trikes allowed such irresponsible behavior and he's blaming the trike instead of the user. It's the same argument as saying that guns kill people, SUVs cause accidents and keyboards cause spelling errors.

That been said, I agree with the balance of your assessment. We should criticize those that ride recklessly and cause harm to others. We should be hard on those that wreck it for the rest of us. I just wish he'd do it without blaming the machine as much as the operator.

Man, I gotta switch to decaf... :D
you assume too much. i will elaborate.
ever been to glamis? i have, back in the time frame he is referenceing? i have. go watch a nice tears for fears video (everybody wants to rule the world) look at the trikers...no helmets the whole bit. he is calling ALL atv riders out on that, as it is usually the them who cause the trouble. example our local high school has a great sports feild system, recently it was destroyed by a kid on a blaster doing dounuts and stuff. now for years i have ridden there on my bikes and quads and even stopped to watch the games or talk to the custodians. not anymore. as far as being able to choose to buy a "dangerous trike new" sure , and every lawyer in the country would have an orgasm if that was true...listen to the radio ads from lawyers..."if you have been hurt by, if you have been injured due to defective products" I am glad they stopped, if thay hadn't we would not any atv's or motorcycles anymore. how many educated consumers are there really? have you ever bought a defective item? sure, how about one that will kill you? probably not. if you as a new to atv's consumer be upset that you were not informed that the 3 wheeler you just bought is inherently unsafe? heck yes...if yopu had the choice of a 4 wheeler or a trike knowing the stability or having a sales man guide you to the correct machine still buy a trike? heck no, how would that impact the sale of the tries? devastatingly, i suggest you look at the muscle car era of the 60's...see the parrallels? also note we are in the real muscle era now, cars with 600 hp(real not bhp not sae gross hp crap) look at your argument again closley....
for god sake look at cigarettes, people sue those companies all the time, were they forced to smike? it even says they are dangerous on the pack! point here is that because we live in such a liberal self centered society where we as individuals seek to put blame on anything but ourselves, we need the cpsc and the willingness to change products and progress technology. also, consider this invention.... "the six pack rack"...really says it all about how responsible we atv'ers are doesn't it?



oh, the auto manufactures did stop making cnvertables specifically because the csps found them dangerous in roll over collisions....

[3Razors]

Before long were all going to be stuck sitting in rocking chairs because the government thinks everything is too dangerous for the public. In my mind "usually anything that is too safe isn't very fun." Meaning there is a risk involved in anything and it's up to you to decide what your limitations and capabilities are.

[NICKG]

There's another problem with this that goes way past the handling characteristics of a small off-road vehicle.

The government got involved to protect us from ourselves. Can a nation truly be free when "Big Brother" decides John Q. Public doesn't have sense enough to get through every day life let alone operate an off-road recreation vehicle??

Where does it end? 4-wheeler riders beware!

again coonsider the fact that in today's society, we the individual are never prepared to take the responsibility or our actions, simply put, its never my fault. most people today can't understand that. we look to blame others or things for our misfortune. look at how many lawyers are advertising to sue about Viox, think about it, ever wonder why it cost 500 for a prescription? it's not becaues of he plastic bottles, its because of lwasuits and things in addition to research. that is the bigger issue, not the government, untill we as people understand that each one of us needs to consider how stupid actions impact us, we will only sink further....the 4 wheeler hunt is already underway..from the environmentalists to the lawyers suing honda over paralyzed kids(who didn't remember put a helmet on) and many other fronts

[NICKG]

Before long were all going to be stuck sitting in rocking chairs because the government thinks everything is too dangerous for the public. In my mind "usually anything that is too safe isn't very fun." Meaning there is a risk involved in anything and it's up to you to decide what your limitations and capabilities are.
that my freind is the way it looks to be headed, and we have no one to blame but ourselves for it

[Yamahammer490]

NickG, I think we both misunderstood each other. Reading your later posts I agree with you. (Which again reinforces my point that email is so much less effective for communication than hanging over a back fence with a beer in your hand.)

Our problem is that nobody takes any personal responsibility and everybody's looking to be a victim.

[Jeb]

Boy, you guys have attacked it all! Personal insults about his weight, the spelling of his last name, etc... etc...

If he would have gotten 100 posts like Billy's he might have changed his tune. You guys made it easy for him to further discredit trikes and the people who enjoy them. Now I'm sure he thinks nothings changed since the 80s. Perhaps trikers are worse now.

I'd like to know, is Billy's the only post he got that didn't attack him personally for being a dumb-@$$, fat, ignorant jerk whose named after a bodily fluid?????????

Whether he deserves that or not is irrelevant. You could lay out your arguments in a more positve manner for the good of the sport and not resort to personal attacks. :rolleyes: I mean, you know since that stuff is posted on PUBLIC forums.

[Billy Golightly]

I split some posts off here. I'm telling EVERYONE who reads this thread once and once only.


Stay on topic, a refrain from anything that is not constructive. If your going to post here and call Super Hunky an asshole or whatever else your fancy is, you will be having a Christmas vacation from the forum. If you have something that is worth reading and perhaps commenting on, then OK. Just keep the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro to yourselves. :mad:

[markdb420]

Well, Nick it'd be hard to prove him wrong. I honestly don't think he'd listen and then let alone admit that his opinion is incorrect. My 250r is very stable at high speeds, more so than on a dirt bike, and by that extension I do feel more stable on a quad. If it was true evolution as you say then the 3 wheeler was an evolution on the low speed instability of the dirt bike. I mean, now there is a ride that doesn't require the rider to put his feet down on the ground for stability! That right there is an improvement right? It stands to reason if you can stay on the vehicle without having to put your feet on the ground to hold the machine upright then that is safer. Why is it that motorcyclists on the highway are allowed to ride Harleys when they are far more unstable than cars and trucks. That seems inherently unsafe, yet we still allow it, why?

I am being totally sarcastic, because I'd never want to take away anyones right to their personal leisure activities. I just would like to have my right to pursue my leisure activities respected. I just think that Mr Hunky is a traitor to the sport of off roading. When we get on the slippery slope of oulawing one form of off roading, he should have stood up with us as we would support dirt bikers rights. Its people like him that have aided and abetted the screwy lawyers and negligent riders in their lawsuits. I bet his very words on 3 wheelers have been quoted in some lawyers argument and he has been quoted as a reputable source, which simply isn't the case. He is a traitor and while I'd never want to see dirt bikes banned, I'd have to laugh at Mr Hunky if it happened. He helped seal our fates on 3 wheelers and he keeps fueling the fire.

[TimSr]

well let me interject this....you are trying to explain to a guy that loves his apples(dirbikes) that oranges(atv's) are better.


This pretty well sums it up. Whatever you send him is your representation to the reading public of trike riders. Its not to convince him that he should become a trike fan. He wont. Its for the public to see the "other side" of the dispute. He makes a lot of valid points concerning the idiot factor. Maybe he got some of them right off this message board from posts about riding through the streets, running from the cops, riding stolen trikes, drunk people with no riding experience riding double, putting little kids on adult ATVs, bragging about not wearing safety equipment, looking for the loudest pipe, tearing up lawns of neighbors who dont like your loud pipe or otherwise vandalizing their property, etc., etc. etc. Need I go on?

Everything you say and do in the name of riding a trike or any other ATV gives the public an impression. The same people who go the greatest lengths to give the public the worst possible impression, are the same ones who whine the most that the public has a bad impression. This was a golden opportunity that he gave us to show oursleves to the public in a positive light by publishing those letters. Instead we did littlemore than give him waht he needed to back up his claims. Again I say, the way most of the letters portrayed us was a lot worse than anything he said.

[markdb420]

Tim Sr, you are right as usual. I just cannot stand that guy and we'll never convince him that he is wrong. He has it in for us and our 3 wheelers, and without any good reason. He just lumps us together as yahoos and guess what I know yahoos that ride dirt bikes. They act like retards and you'd never get him to admit it.

[rustbucket]

Hey guys you have all made good arguments about trikes not being the cuase of accidents and so on. But Rick Sieman is still a **** no two ways about hes a dirtbiker like me, In my opinion fourwheelers are the worst of the off road vehicles since most of them are used to tear up the trails far worst than a bike or a trike would, I had a four wheeler four two weeks. 1985 honda 125 no suspension(like a trike) balloon tires almost broke my head open because I was climbing hills in reverse just plain stupid but I learned not to do that kind of like putting your legs down. I learned to trike on a 200x I rolled it and crashed it and all the other stuff never ended up with any thing mor than a scratch. I also caught a lip on the edge of a paved road with my bike and wipped out and got some severe road rash If you look at it in physics a bike is the most unstable thing (less wheels) but they still make them. Why. Because untill we can make a one wheeler they are still exciting. So super hunky doesn't like trikes big deal that just more trikes for us

[Lots_Of_Nothing]

I didnt read ALL the replies to this, Because i'm sure i've read the arguement many times before.. I just wanted to comment that i'm a little upset with all the ignorant e-mails to him. It gave him an excuse to side step around some questions in Billy's e-mail. I was really looking forward to hearing what he had to say in return to Billy. If he would have only got Bill's and a couple other smart ones, I think he would of been cornered and probably wouldnt even of replied. But when its mixed in with those "your a dumba$$ fat ****" e-mails, its just kind of like a example of what he was saying (trike riders being punks basically)

Bill, I think the new e-mail sounds good, and I look forward to hearing him actually try to reply to your questions... other people please don't e-mail him with insults and other BS, it just ruins it.

[Lots_Of_Nothing]

Sadly, the intelligent, respectful, well thought-out arguments will be forever masked by those who chose to make us all like like morons by throwing a bunch of name calling and profanity at him instead of making a logical argument and rebuttal to the facts. To the impartial reader, this guy comes out looking rational while we come across looking like a bunch of hot headed juvenile morons. I thank those who bothered to think, but some of the responses made by "trike supporters" are an embarassment, and did a lot more damage than they did to convince anybody of anything.


Woops.. Skipped over that on accident. exactly Tim, that's what I was trying to say, You put it in better words though :p .

[Mr. Sandman]

other people please don't e-mail him with insults and other BS, it just ruins it.
I agree, all the insults and other BS just add fuel to his fire. Everyone already knows his opinion and you won't change that. Keep up the personal attacks and name calling and were all branded as the unintelligent, careless idiots he's talking about. I for one believe that I am the complete opposite of the (I only care about myself and don't respect anyone else) punks he's talking about and I'm sure 99% of everyone else does too.

Remember that this is a PUBLIC forum and anyone with access to the net can read your lame comments and it could very well be edited, manipulated and used against us.

[Billy Golightly]

Actually he gained a little respect from me by even replying at all. I was expecting it to go on deaf ears, like most everything else. I'm intertested in seeing what his reply is to my second letter.

[Blown 331]

A backwards triangle? I'm sorry but that's hilarious. New site name? www.backwardstriagleworld.com

I'm all about the 3-wheeler and if Honda would make us a ATC450R I'd buy one for sure, it'd be a nice complement to my TRX450R. One thing I don't agree with that some of you said is that 3-wheelers are more stable than bikes. No way. I've been 140 mph on my old FZR Yamaha and there is no way I'd go that fast on 3-wheels.

[Yamahammer490]

I will also join in asking that when/if anyone replies to him to please keep your language appropriate. Also keep in mind that he is highly respected in the off road world at large and taking shots at him just makes all of us look like uneducated, temperamental idiots. We need good PR.

I'd also ask that we not get into the trikes-are-better-than-bikes (or quads) argument. From an physics perspective they are NOT. Bikes may be less stable as a vehicle by themselves BUT the rider has the ability to counteract dynamic forces by leaning the entire vehicle/rider combination. On a trike (or quad, for that matter) the rider is left to counteract forces by leaning himself, getting no help from the vehicle. Plus, even if this weren't true, and as many of you have stated, Super Hunky likes bikes and you're not about to change his mind.

I'm very curious what response we'll see at off-road.com on December 1st...

[83200e]

I'm very curious what response we'll see at off-road.com on December 1st...[/QUOTE]

I'd be suprised if he responds at all.

[Billy Golightly]

? Its December 9th now. You mean January? I really hope he does reply, That would make my day.

[Yamahammer490]

? Its December 9th now. You mean January? I really hope he does reply, That would make my day.

Uhhh... sorry... I meant January. :o Sometimes complicated things like calendars really screw me up... :D