Looking for tech help honda 70 atc

[lilatv]

Hello

I have done a search on this forum and came up with what I hope to be a good parts supplier. Before I get to that point I would like suggestions on determining why I am not getting a spark at the spark plug and I have a few other questions, be patient with me.

This is a 1979 honda 70 three wheeler-magneto no battery or starter

It has sit for the past 15 years in a barn, was my families before that, cannot recall why we stopped using it.

I recently brought it out to see if I could get it running for my nephews.

It seems to have compression, the carb is clean, and when I work the throttle pulling the string the smell of gas increases~gas also comes out the bowl relief line, so seems it is getting fuel.

I then grounded the spark plug to one of the cleaned fins, the old plug did smoke a little for some reason but no spark, the new spark plug does nothing.
When I first held the spark plug to the fin I recieved a shock through my arm, haha, so I thought that meant it should be good with a new plug but that wasn't the case.

Is there a way I can use my multimeter to determine the voltage at the plug wire when cranked? I only use the ohm setting for checking automobile sensors and wires, I am not clear on which setting to use to read voltage from a magneto, would there be a way to determine voltage at the magneto lead wire(?) when cranked, using the multimeter? I have checked all the wiring and it show no resistance.

I have done some reading on the neautral safety switch so I may look into that as well.

I did check the resistance from the wire to the coil and the plug wire end, and the resistance was 8000 ohms, I then checked the resistance from the
wire to the coil to the plug boot, on the end of the plug wire, and it was 12000 ohms of resistance. Is this good or bad? Seems acceptable for an automobile ignition but I am unsure about this atv.

I am gonna pick up a couple of longer bolts today and try and use a steering wheel puller to get the flywheel off to see if there is a great deal of rust buildup, I did look inside the flywheel openings and saw surface rust, unsure how the magneto pickups(?) look.

Another thing that seemed odd to me, when I hooked the negative multimeter wire to the wire going to the off/on/off switch and the positive to the wire coming from it, I recored 0 resistance with the switch on or off, shouldn't there have been a great deal of resistance in the off positon or am I wrong?

Any help would be appreciated, I have posted on 3 or 4 atv forums with no responses, so feel free to add anything that comes to mind. Thanks

[jenndnn3]

When you pull the Flywheel, replace your points. Good chances it is that. Another spot to check for rust, is under the on/ off switch. You basically have 3 places you lose spark on these, stator, on/off switch and coil. You can check spark out of stator easy enough by just grounding the stator wire to engine. If you have blue there then you can look at the coil, and on/switches to be culprits. If not you go into stator. If all of these test true, then look for bad ground, Good luck, By the way pulling a those flywheels after sitting a few years can be alittle stuck, just be patient. Sounds to me like you have a good handle on this and will find spark easy enough.

[lilatv]

jenndnn3

Thanks!!! I believe you saved me doing some damage that wasn't even required. I have spent the past day or so trying to get the flywheel off, when I should have left it alone. I touched the stator wire to the case and by simply pulling the string out a few inches, slowly at that, it began to spark, :Bounce first sign of life. So I have wasted some time there, I am really glad you posted. I also realize I was testing the off/on/off switch all wrong, when I stated it had no resistance regardless, duh, one end was grounded to the coil. So I disconnected the wire at the coil, then connected that wire to the ohmmeter and the other off/on/off wire to the other ohmmeter wire and it shows zero resistance in the off positions and a lot of resistance in the on. Would appear I need a new coil and plug wire boot.

So I have spark from the stator wire and the off/on/off switch appears okay and no spark at the spark plug, so it should be a faulty coil? If it were a bad ground would I get spark from the stator? Now I am wondering if its a ground or the coil.


Maybe I should be certian it is wired correctly. There was a ? able wire from the coil that was just hanging there, its black and a part of the coil, then there is a green wire from the off/on/off switch that goes to the coil. I assumed the black wire connected to the stator wire, as there was a place for it, the green wire goes to the on/off switch then to the stator wire, am I correct so far? I know it may seem crazy that I am trying to describe everything I am doing but trying to be sure there isn't a small detail that is holding me back.

Thanks again

[TimSr]

99.5% of the time, when you have no spark on a model with points, your points are the problem. Its also very common for them to rust or corrode when sitting idle for extended periods of time. Even if they are badly corroded, just cleaning the contacts will make them functional. Coils rarely go bad, especially from just sitting.

I strongly suggest getting a flywheel puller, to keep on hand, especially on a model with points. They are about $10-14.

[TrikerR]

hi ive got a 110 and and sometimes while riding, the engine just dies and im pretty sure its from no spark. as you probably know it has cdi so what can i check for that.

[lilatv]

TimSr

Would I be getting spark from the grounded stator wire if the points were bad?

Thanks

[jenndnn3]

LilAtv, yes you would, or can. OR even none at all. Points control the When spark actually happens via, when engine should fire. So when you install points they are timed to engine. When they go bad, they start to spark at wrong times, or sparadic. Causing engine to fire at wrong times. You may get your 70 running, with a bad point. but it wont run well.

On the coil, you may need to sand down the ground to the frame. I am with Tim with one exception Why did it get parked in the first place. Thats the bugger.

Little Pricing for ya

points $13
coil $50
on/off switch $25 (you only need the switch not the whole thing)

[jenndnn3]

I am sorry I forgot the other question, I dont have my 70 anymore so wiring from memory here forgive me. Black should be the big daddy, it plugs into the system. Green is a ground. You should only have the black wire with the 79, out of coil or on/off switch should come your ground, that is if I am remembering correctly which is grounded at the coil. How many wires do you have coming out of the Stator? There should only be one, The black one, unlesssss you have the setup for lights.

[greenhuman]

Just because a plug is new does not mean anything. It could be a bad one. Unscew the cap off the plug lead, make sure you can see the core of the wire. Hold the end of the lead 1/8" off the head and give the starter a pull. See if you have a spark jumping across the gap. If you do, its either the plug or cap that's the problem.

[lilatv]

greenhuman

YOur right but turns out the plug is okay.


jenndnn3

I knew it was gonna end up being a small detail over looked. I believe you have it with the wiring. Actually after I switched the wiring around it fired, after I thought it over and made the reasoning as to why it fired, bigger than it really should have been, I realized, the coil isn't grounded to the frame properly. I sanded off the rust from the coil and frame, put the green wire back between the coil and frame, hooked the black coil wire and black on/off wire back into the stator harness and I have spark. I did notice that every once in a while when I crank it, it doesn't spark, I believe that is correct, otherwise it would be firing as it drew air/fuel into the cylinder. Well when I get more time I will see if I can get this thing to ignite the air/fuel mixture.

Appreciate the responses.

[lilatv]

Well I got a chance to mess with it some more, still will not fire, I had a spark at the plug at first but now it will not do it.

I was not able to get the flywheel off but I was able to clean the points, they were pretty clean to begin with and when I would turn the flywheel I could notice them opening. After I cleaned the points there was a strong spark at the spark plug, I cranked the engine a few times, no start, took the plug out and grounded it, no spark, so I grounded the stator wire and there is spark, seems like it goes little spark little spark then it pops the spark is so strong, I would unhook the spark plug ground the stator wire, spark, hook everything up ground the plug, no spark, unhook it again, ground stator wire spark. So I dunno, unless someone tells me different I am planning on getting a new coil tomorrow, seems to me thats it, I even bypassed the on/off switch just to be sure and shined up all the connections just to be sure they were all solid connections.

Would an automotive coil work just to see if its the coil, I have a duraspark II laying around?

Thanks

[lilatv]

Well I tried the automotive coil and it didn't spark but after what I am about to tell you, it may work after all.

I tried the automobile coil and no spark, being a bit aggrevated I took a break. A couple hours later I went back out and cleaned all the connections, rewired it again, and tried to get a spark, sure enough it sparked at the plug. I install the plug, crank it over a few times and nothing, so I check the spark plug again, and to my suprise there was still spark, in all honesty I don't know why the ignition is working, I changed nothing just fiddled with already clean connections???, seems to have a mind of its own. After I notice I still have spark, I pull the string with force, haha, I noticed the motor seemed to turn over a couple seconds longer than it previously had. Knowing I have spark now and the compression is good, I decide to force feed it, so I get a spray bottle and put some gas in it, I mist some fuel into the intake and shut the choke, give it a couple pulls with about all the umph I have, and it seems to be turning over a few seconds longer than previously.........wait......that things running.......I forgot how quiet this thing is.....I came pretty close to walking back into the house frustrated....there was a good chance I wouldn't have known it was running. A few seconds later it quit running.....come to find out its leaking gas pretty bad at the carb.......so I put some more fuel in it.....prime it again with the spray bottle and it fired up, it stopped shortly thereafter, so I choke it and hold the throttle down and it fired right up on its own...it took a couple more tries but I worked the throttle and choke unitl I found a balance to where it would idle on its own...let it idle for about 5 minutes before it stopped...out of gas. There is a pretty bad leak on the selector switch, no big deal, I am gonna get a carb kit and replace the gaskets. See if I can get it to move under its own power... if it does... then I will put some tires on it, they are all flat, it has been a while. Then I will proceed to change the oil and clean it up. I can't believe it....15 years + spark plug + a little time messing with connections, etc. and it started. I just hope the nephews like it.

Appreciate everyones help.....thank you for your time

[jenndnn3]

Congrats!!!!!!! It is an awesome feeling to accomplish....Congrats again!

[lilatv]

Jenndnn3


Do you remember the shift pattern for your honda 70? Neautral then upshift to first second third? Thanks



Went out and it fired right up...then died...couldn't get it to fire....then I cranked it over a few times in the off position then it fired right back up...its running rich...very rich....smoky rich....ordered the carb kit so that should take care of that, once cleaned some more. I shifted it up into what I believe to be first but it didn't want to go anywhere in any hurry....the tires are flat and not repairable so that probably had something to do with it....I was able to walk beside it in a circle....I hope the clutch friction disks or whatever is in there aren't gone...oh well part of it...did you ever have to change the cluthes on your honda 70?





Anyone familliar with installing clutch disks(?), if someone has time and wants to give me a quick overview that would be appreciated. Later

[jenndnn3]

Remember the point issue,,well you may have to go in. By the way if you dont have a manual, it may be time for one. I dont remember the shift pattern but its a 3 speed. look above the recoil, there should be a white knobby with a red strip on it. next to it is an "N" thats neutral. I think they were upshift but cannot remember. Never did clutches sooo no help there.

The manual will tell ya how to adjust, change, and all that stuff. You can search on forums but it is tough to sort through. You need to check adjustment of points, clean carb, and maybe adjust your clutch. If not change out like you say.

[lilatv]

Thanks.


I wasn't sure about the shift pattern because the shift lever was broken off. I found a rod and bent it into shape and welded it to whats left of the lever....raised the rear tires off the ground... fired it up and shifted through the gears giving it throttle, shifted pretty good. The tires are litterally flat and out of shape, not to mention dry rotted. A person would think after all these years they would still be good...just kidding.

I noticed when I was looking up parts that the 110 had a clutch adjustment cover, did not mention the 70...if anyone knows if it can be adjusted lemme know...I would imagine it would require a certain amount of lbs ft of tq on a nut or bolt but thats a guess on my part. Nephew number 4 (2 year old) sit on it tonight and worked the throttle some...when I shut it off he walked over and pointed at the pull string and said pull..pull. Which reminds me I need to find a screw that'll work on the thottle switch so I can adjust it down when the little people use it.

I'll get a repair manual one of these days.

I noticed that when I put the selector switch in the off position it runs a lot smoother and not as rich...until the carb runs dry of course...which makes me think the float isn't working correctly causing it to run rich. hmmm


Thanks again for the response

[lilatv]

Well I figured out why it was so rich, the air filter is gone and apparently it was drawing in way too much fuel to compensate for the added air? Did not make any sense to me, but if I choked the intake until the butterfly was almost closed, it ran like it was new. Then I gave the tires some fix a flat, two held pretty well, for a minute or two, and the other one was shot but I managed to put some air in it. Jumped on it, put it in first and off I went, here I am a grown man smilling like I was 5 years old on christmas morning. The wife thought I was nuts, so I had here get on it, there she was with a big old grin on her face, funny thing was, a couple of hours ago she didn't car if I loaded it up and took it to the dump, I told here she'd like it. If that thing can drag my butt around it won't be a problem for the nephews.

I managed to get the old tires off, the first tire took 30 minutes to cut the old tire, and slowly cut the bead with wire cutters until it dropped down. Second about 20 minutes and the third maybe 5, I realized I was doing it all wrong, all I had to do was go around the edge with a screwdriver and hammer and it slowly dropped down, seperate the two halves and it was off. Found a local tire shop that has new tires for $20 a piece, I think that was pretty good, they are cooper tires if anyone is familliar with them.

Oh well, hopefully the tires will come in tomorrow and I can get that done and see how it runs with air in the tires.

I posted a question about oil type and amount it holds, if someone has any ideas, please lemme know something...I will get a manual here shortly, so please be patient.

Thanks

[joeyson]

HELP... I pulled my 1983 Honda 70 atv out of storage.. It won't start... replaced gas...won't start.. to see if I had a carb problem I put gas in the cylinder and it starts for a few seconds...so I cleaned the carb and messed with the adjustement screws... Still no go.. even after putting it in 4th gear and riding it down a hill... do you know what the mixture screws are set at. There appears to be 2 screws..

[lilatv]

facing the left side of the carb there are two screws, turn them all the way in, then turn the left one, one turn out and the right one is 1 3/4 (just short of 2 full turns) turns out. You may have to adjust yours a little either way.


One way I was able to prime mine, is take the air filter off and puts some gas in a cheap spray bottle, as somone cranked the engine, I would mist the gas into the carb, it worked but if there are carb problems then whether it runs on its own after that is another story.


I pulled ours out yesterday to see what it would do and no fire, cleaned the spark plug and when I reinstalled it, it would turn and turn, the threads stripped.. :mad: thats no good. good luck with your atc70

[joeyson]

No luck turned the screws to your settings... there is also a tube that is not connected that comes from below the seat... I think its a vent tube... but it doesn't fit the carb fitting... Is this necessary to have plugged in?

Also, with the screw settings where do you have your choke set? Do you push it all the way down to start?

Thanks for your help. :welcome:

[lilatv]

I am not certain, I needed to choke it sometimes, sometimes not, either way it would start.

Something that happened to mine and you may wanna check this, is the choke after time was worn out and even though it appeared the choke was open it was closed. Open the choke and feel inside the carb opening and check to see if the choke butterfly is in the open position.

Are you getting spark? Unsure? Take the spark plug out, then reinstall it in the spark plug boot, and hold the spark plug boot with a pair of pliers with rubber handles or you could get shocked, ground it to a clean spot on the engine, have a friend/spouse crank the engine over, you should see a spark.

The thing at the bottom of the carb bowl you speak of lets the fuel out, if you feel its flooded or something, turn the gas petcock off, then turn the screw out until the excess fuel comes out of the carb, tighten it back up, turn the gas on and start over.

Good luck

[lilatv]

Alrighty........but what does that mean.......... :confused: ???? I take it the three wheeler is running now.