I Hate Shaft Drive!!!

[bbechtel16]

I hate shaft drive! Today my friend and I went up to a local parts and/or service place, TNT Cycles. We both own a 250SX He needed a new final drive for his, due to his teeth being beat to crap. So we went out back to the imfamous parts trike, and the guy there told us $100 for the final drive. While we were there I asked about a reverse machanism and such and he said 10 bucks. Well my friend didn't have the monies for the final drive so we told him we would be back for the stuff in a couple weeks.

So we got back to my house, and we were riding for a bit. Well my SX has this problem where every-once-in-a-while when you shift gears it like doesn't "catch" and it also grinds. Well it did this to me toward the end of my ride comming up my hill. I didn't think much of it, it happens sometimes, although if I recall correctly it happened a couple times today. So my friend gets on it, and he rode it for a little, and when he was done, I guess it didn't want to go, then he driffed back a few feet, and then hit the throttle again, and it lugged like it was up against a brick wall and didn't go, and we were like, what the heck. So he shut it off and we started checkicng stuff out. Then we both noticed my output shaft assembly was in about 10 pieces, and we said "OH MY GOODNESS!!!"

So we called TNT again and I talked to the guy and he said that you have to split the case to remove the output shaft because the gears are attached to it and such, and I'm thinking, man this isn't sounding good. He also said the reason why it would break is because either the bearings went out or a gear blew. I think the latter probably happened. So hes says to us, well, the cheapest route to go here instead of me selling you the output shaft assembly from the parts trike and charging you tons of labor to put it on is to just sell you and your friend the entire trike for $250 and since this engine was a smoker, put your top end and stuff on it and use that engine in your trike.

Sounds like a good idea to me, plus I might end up with a working starter from the parts trike! And also when I'm done I could part out the rest. What do you guys think about this whole situation, the prices, and can you sell me stuff cheaper? This just hasn't been a good day for me. Somebody mowed off our mailbox too. Just needed to vent and get some advice. If these were chain drive, my friend and I might not have these two problems......

[BigRedRunner]

I've got a 250es bottom end with a broken crank if you do want to buy the final drive. I got it over seven years ago that way and I think it sat for a few years before that. So it should be low hours. I know how you feel, I didn't want to go all the trouble of changing a crank and just put another engine in. Course i was 12 at the time. After the swap, I found out my new one was a smoker too and the kickstarter slipped. So I tried to fix the kicker and didn't know what was going on. It sat for all this time until I turned 20. Now its got an overhauled top end and all kinds of good stuff.

[bbechtel16]

I've got a 250es bottom end with a broken crank if you do want to buy the final drive. I got it over seven years ago that way and I think it sat for a few years before that. So it should be low hours. I know how you feel, I didn't want to go all the trouble of changing a crank and just put another engine in. Course i was 12 at the time. After the swap, I found out my new one was a smoker too and the kickstarter slipped. So I tried to fix the kicker and didn't know what was going on. It sat for all this time until I turned 20. Now its got an overhauled top end and all kinds of good stuff.

So your saying you'll sell the bottom end and final drive? How much for each?

[BigRedRunner]

I have no idea what its worth :?: . Its pretty much good for the gears and final drive, everything has been picked clean. The right side of the case and clutches are out because thats where the end of the crank let go. Some goof had 22" tires on it when it should have 25".

[bbechtel16]

Anyone else?

:( Nothing to ride, I am sad. It's like family to me. :(

[bbechtel16]

Found out what's wrong with her today. It wasn't a bearing or tranny gear. What happened was the u joint broke on the front piece of the driveshaft, and when my friend hit the gas it just reved and then when he drifted back and he hit the gas again and it lugged down the shaft was jammed up and the weakest link gave, which sadly wasn't the clutch or more pieces of the driveshaft, but yes, the output shaft assembly. Who is to blame here: me, him, a ??%/??% split? Just give me your opinions. Also I have a question, I started it up today after i got half of the output shaft assembly off, litteraly broke in half, one gear came out with it, the other half is still attached to the engine and working. Anyway, why is that gear turning even when it's in neutral? Doesn't make any sense to me.

If it was chain drive... in a similar problem, I would be buying a new chain, instead of a parts trike and replacing a bottom end. :x

Instead of that parts trike should I buy a drive shaft and complete engine from this parted out SX on eBay: http://search.ebaymotors.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Febay motors%2Fws%2F&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&query=250sx&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&ebaytag1=ebayreg&category0=6000&s_partnerid=2%26category2%3D10063%26siteid%3D100&BasicSearch=&from=R2&catref=C3

[TimSr]

Ill just comment on your "if we had chains" comment. Over the lifespan of the vehicle your going to find that shaft drive mainetentance and repair is much, much, much, cheaper, and much more reliable than chain and sprockets. Yes, when they go, they are a royal pain, but this ATV would have likely been through 10 or 15 sets of chains and sprockets by now, and Ill bet its the first shaft drive problem, and most even last a lot longer.

[bbechtel16]

Ill just comment on your "if we had chains" comment. Over the lifespan of the vehicle your going to find that shaft drive mainetentance and repair is much, much, much, cheaper, and much more reliable than chain and sprockets. Yes, when they go, they are a royal pain, but this ATV would have likely been through 10 or 15 sets of chains and sprockets by now, and Ill bet its the first shaft drive problem, and most even last a lot longer.

I guess your probably right, but I needed to gripe/put blame on something. But as you said, they are a huge pain when they go and to work on. Of course there's also the weight, still can't believe the shaft borke... It was so easy though to get the chain off the KLT, I don't even know how you disconect the driveshaft.

[ATC crazy]

I had an '87 sx too. Never had a problem w/ it either. You should have seen some of the things it pulled and jumped over. I think its one of the toughest trikes Honda ever made. 8)

[bbechtel16]

I had an '87 sx too. Never had a problem w/ it either. You should have seen some of the things it pulled and jumped over. I think its one of the toughest trikes Honda ever made. 8)

Yeah I've pulled some beefy stuff with mine, there was always enough power! Although sometimes not enough traction.

Foreman S huh? I like them, good pick.

[Dirtcrasher]

I would pay 250$ for a parts trike anyday. Add up what people are getting on EBAY for these items and you'll see thats a fair price.
As far as the friend oweing you money for this. Did he ride as much as you and wear it out 50% of the time? Did he abuse it or damage it hitting something? Or did it just fail while he was on it? I would'nt lose a friend over it.
Last word, I don't know about other automatics but my SX if it is in too high of a gear will bog and the gears will start smacking around. I don't believe it is a mechanical problem but just that too high of a gear and too much throttle don't mix. I immediately downshift when this happens. And when people ride it I tell them to make sure there in a low enough gear.

[bbechtel16]

I would pay 250$ for a parts trike anyday. Add up what people are getting on EBAY for these items and you'll see thats a fair price.
As far as the friend oweing you money for this. Did he ride as much as you and wear it out 50% of the time? Did he abuse it or damage it hitting something? Or did it just fail while he was on it? I would'nt lose a friend over it.
Last word, I don't know about other automatics but my SX if it is in too high of a gear will bog and the gears will start smacking around. I don't believe it is a mechanical problem but just that too high of a gear and too much throttle don't mix. I immediately downshift when this happens. And when people ride it I tell them to make sure there in a low enough gear.

The clucking/smacking/griding whatever seems to be random, doesnt matter what type of shift I make, just happens sometimes. Trust me, I'm not afraid to wind it out either. :-D

Don't worry I'm not gonna put this on my friend after I thought about it and talked to people. But I do think he hit the gas harder than he should have when it wouldn't go, oh well.

[mxc495]

Hey, Just wanted to let you know I'm selling my 85 250SX for $750. Comes with extra parts and I'm located in western Pa.

[Dirtcrasher]

I wind my SX to the moon, power shift it and absolutely beat the living hell out of it. Other than the suspension it is bulletproof!

[ATC crazy]

They are bulletproof. Between my brothers owning it and me, I'd bet my Foreman that there are close to 95,000 miles on the sx. My friend has it now and doesn't ride it as much as I did. :(

[Dirtcrasher]

They are bulletproof. Between my brothers owning it and me, I'd bet my Foreman that there are close to 95,000 miles on the sx. My friend has it now and doesn't ride it as much as I did. :(
You just made me laugh my ass off, Thank You!!

[PowerTrike]

95k! sure about that? personally i like shaft drive/but replacing is a pain in the ar$e WHEN you have to do it (if ya beat on it or just bent an axle like me)

[als250]

@ATCcrazy-95,000 coool, means I got 90,000+++ left on mine!lol @bbechtel16-As for the shaft drive, it's not that bad. Buy a Clymers manual (a must for me).When I got my '85sx, the rubber boot covering the u-joint was torn allowing water into final drive.Had to pull entire swingarm to change.Went smooth and I got to check bearings and gears while I had everything apart. Got to learn alot about my trike! @Dirtcrasher-As for suspension, :rolleyes: (guess it wasn't made for jumping)but hell it's fast enough and tough enough, why not? I don't get "big air" but I still like to jump :twisted: , so i've put a 200x frt. end on it (better rebound, seems to be lighter, wheelies easier, and I like the hydraulic frt. brake,looks cool too!) and have just now purchased a 350x shock, off e-bay, for the back!!! Not even sure if it will fit :? ,but with a welder, torch, grinder and a little imagination it might work :idea: @Powertrike-bent you're axle? BIG AIR or what, those axles are pretty well protected, where did it bend and how ? Just curious,so I don't do the same thing(or maybe something I can do to beef mine up?) Thanks

well, that's about my .04 worth :arrow: :Beerchug


Al

[als250]

thought I'd add some pics! :D

Al

[jeswinehart]

nice pics als250 ! badlands was a great trip, i never noticed your front end conversion. clean swap, nice.

having had to pull my es motor a couple of times i found the shaft drive to be a real pain in the butt to dis-engage + re-engage. i thought it would be easier to drop the rear end after i got motor back in, put shaft on and then rear end. i just kept fighting it the way clymers manual said too and finnaly got it. not as easy as the book say's it to be.

other then that i don't have any troubles with my shaft drive on big red or the sx i used to have.
thanks als250,,, now i am missing the sx i sold,,, had a blast on it !

john

[Dirtcrasher]

NICE PICS! Funny but I too have a bent rear end on my SX and I got it that way. I tore it down when I bought it to grease and check everything, when I popped off the drive side hub with the bearings the axle was not centered? When I reinstalled it, the bearings were forcing the axle to go where it didn't want to, so I shimmed that hub with spacers with three spacers on one bolt and 1.5 spacers on the adjacent bolts thus cocking it to mate the axle. It slid together very well and has lasted 4 yrs. , I assume the swingarm itself got tweaked when a tire hit a tree or something. Now a word on shaft drives - if the gears are set correctly and the fluid is changed and kept full and no water enters the system, they will last a hell of a long time. My splines are dying in the axle to the ring gear hub area. Ever take something apart that presses or splines together and there's rust under it? Well make sure you put some good waterproof grease under that area to prevent it from happening again. I have something called Moly Paste I use it on all spline set ups, it is like tar and never displaces. One dot on your elbow and you will contaminate your entire vehicle and clothing! It is also called Open Gear Compound and adds years to assemblies. It creates a barrier preventing metal to metal contact and laughs at water.
You guys gotta understand that if you don't take it apart maintain it and inspect it, you WILL have a failure. I don't care if its the dam rear brake pedal, if it gets muddy clean it and grease it as soon as you can.

[Dirtcrasher]

@ATCcrazy-95,000 coool, means I got 90,000+++ left on mine!lol @bbechtel16-As for the shaft drive, it's not that bad. Buy a Clymers manual (a must for me).When I got my '85sx, the rubber boot covering the u-joint was torn allowing water into final drive.Had to pull entire swingarm to change.Went smooth and I got to check bearings and gears while I had everything apart. Got to learn alot about my trike! @Dirtcrasher-As for suspension, :rolleyes: (guess it wasn't made for jumping)but hell it's fast enough and tough enough, why not? I don't get "big air" but I still like to jump :twisted: , so i've put a 200x frt. end on it (better rebound, seems to be lighter, wheelies easier, and I like the hydraulic frt. brake,looks cool too!) and have just now purchased a 350x shock, off e-bay, for the back!!! Not even sure if it will fit :? ,but with a welder, torch, grinder and a little imagination it might work :idea: @Powertrike-bent you're axle? BIG AIR or what, those axles are pretty well protected, where did it bend and how ? Just curious,so I don't do the same thing(or maybe something I can do to beef mine up?) Thanks

well, that's about my .04 worth :arrow: :Beerchug

Nope the shocks not gonna fit BUT you have the right idea! I don't know how much trave the 350X has. I too wanted better rear suspension for the SX I got an 200X shock made a new lower mount and ground away material on the top mount for the nitrogen hose. Also had to move the battery back with brackets I machined one inch. Now learn from my mistakes - first off just to look at a 200X shock it seems to have like no travel I need to find a linkless shock witk some travel. Hmmm son of a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro! my Blaster shock looks like it would work! Coincedentally I bought one yesterday on ebay for 18$!! This time I will mount it more on the same angle as the Blaster. I'm gonna try and duplicate the same points as if it were one big triangle as the Blaster has. This is the weak point of my SX so I have to come up with something. Bear in mind that the battery box has a lot of room back there and can be moved back and up alot. And don't make it too high when your done or you'll overextend the driveshafts proper running angles. I'll keep ya posted and try to send pics as I do this. Oh for the record the 200x setup sucked it just had no travel and I didn't try to duplicate distances and angles, I just wanted it on there!!
Al