View Full Version : Your carburetor is FINE!! Carb cleaning 101..
Dirtcrasher
07-09-2004, 07:52 PM
In case you wanted to know....
Ive had like 3 people leave me there toys lately for bad gas problems or they think they need a new carburetor - I'm no expert, feel free to add to this but I just wanted to share my experiences. Just keep your fuel clean, run an inline filter and don't leave gas in there over the winter and you will avoid most problems. Clean your trike and the carbs outside before you start removing it.I use a well lighted table away from everyone and everything - a white rag to lay everything out in order is helpful along with a manual.
Rebuild kits are generally just orings, jets sometimes, gaskets and a new air/fuel screw. These screws if overtightened do get bent at there tip and bad gas eats the brass - either one will stop them from working correctly. There are no other magic parts in a rebuild kit.
Make sure you completely remove EVERY single jet (they are all just threaded in - no cheap screwdrivers on the brass!!), needle valve, air screw etc and clean them each by themselves in gas and then carb cleaner. Then you leave the carb body immersed in gas before you go at it with the carb cleaner. If your mother yells at you for cleaning with gas, forget the gas part. Put the plastic extension on there and completely soak and squirt through every single passage etc - the carb should be naked of all moving parts and pieces. Carb cleaner in your eye really really really hurts so I'm just warning you. Compressed air is very helpful but a good can or 2 or carb cleaner blasted through also works and evaporates quickly. I use a qtip in the larges passages but even 1 strand of cotton left in any air or fuel passage will screw it up. The constant spraying of cleaner eats the most gunk. No wires or drill bits as they scratch the jets holes and this can upset the air/fuel balance - these holes are thousandths of an inch in diameter. You don't want to see one spot of anything in any inside portion of that carburetor.
When removing air or fuel screws first slowly and lightly thread them all the way until they bottom out - counting the number of turns and the original "o - clock" position they were at. Then you can back them out and clean up in there and just reinstall them and back them out to there original setting. Look in your manual just to compare that setting - 1.5 turns out actually found at 5 turns out could be part of your problem. If it does not respond correctly try the stock setting but remember that even the air box lid removed or a dirty air filter affects this setting.
Behind some screws you may find a washer, oring, spring, spacer etc etc, but just pay attention and look in there before you toss it in the bowl of gas and you see a washer fall out - at which time you panic wondering where it belongs in the carb. Jets don't get a "turns out" setting - they just thread in and tighten against the carb body or another piece of a jet or spacer etc. Jets are just hunks of brass with a bunch of holes in them - not anything like plutonium or an atom bomb.
For the most part I have never seen a worn out carb, I have seen stripped or damaged carbs but most all carbs can be saved and have no problems other than dirt, missing or damaged orings and or improper setting. Anyone buying carbs on EBAY to remedy there "broken carb" probably just needs a little TLC.
Good luck
ste-pel
07-09-2004, 08:46 PM
Good read.
We have a little jr 50 that my little sis rides around and it was't running right, so my dad took it in to get looked at. $80 later it still ran like crap. Today I took the carb off it and took it right apart and cleaned everything. I put it back together and put back on the bike and made sure everthing was sung so that there was a good seal between the carb and cylender. Started it up, did some fine ajustments and it ran just like the day we bought it, then I put the lid back on the air box and it stalled out. Another reajustment and it ran perfect.
H.M.F.I.C.
07-09-2004, 09:13 PM
I agree with you. As someone who works on quite a few on the side I have seen alot of poeple willing to spend money on what they don't need and not wanting to spend it on what they do need. Sure, put a new carb on it but don't dare touch the points, it's only been sitting three years. Anyway, I will add one thing, some carbs do wear out. Older 50, 70, 90, and 110's carbs don't have replaceble seats and if they sit long enough with water or old gas in them it will corrode the seat badly enough that the needle will not seat on it. Other than that you shouldn't ever have to replace a carb.
smokinp
07-09-2004, 10:07 PM
good read,very good information :cool:
Xowner
07-09-2004, 11:35 PM
i cant respond dude to the boobs in this thread!
Dirtcrasher
07-11-2004, 06:38 PM
I agree with you. As someone who works on quite a few on the side I have seen alot of poeple willing to spend money on what they don't need and not wanting to spend it on what they do need. Sure, put a new carb on it but don't dare touch the points, it's only been sitting three years. Anyway, I will add one thing, some carbs do wear out. Older 50, 70, 90, and 110's carbs don't have replaceble seats and if they sit long enough with water or old gas in them it will corrode the seat badly enough that the needle will not seat on it. Other than that you shouldn't ever have to replace a carb.
I actually found an old ATC90 that had ants living in the carb when I pulled the throttle valve out, and yes this time it needed a new carb!! :D
haywiremechanic
03-26-2011, 06:43 PM
It is possible to polish the non-removable inlet valve seat in these little carbs with valve grinding compound and a small pointed wooden stick.
Most pressed-in "non-removable" idle jets can be removed with a pair of vise-grip pliers and some careful twisting and pulling. Just drive it back in after you clean it.
Always remove the needle valve seat even if it looks perfect and clean the crud out from behind it, or that crud will eventually come loose and cause more trouble.
briano
03-26-2011, 08:40 PM
I just had a carb off of a chinese 110 motor that was so gummed up that carb cleaner wouldn't touch it. I soaked it in sea foam, then blew it out with air, then carb cleaner, with no luck. I went and bought one of the one gallon dip cans of carb cleaner with the parts basket in it, 3 hours in there then rinse with water it is like new inside and out. I removed everything from the carb that could be removed and put it all in the basket and dipped it all.
Ironbnder
03-26-2011, 09:36 PM
I have an air nozzle that I replaced the screw in tip with an old fassion BIC pen body. Pull the ink and tip out, pop the back off, put a couple of wraps around the end with electrical tape and it screws right in the end of the nozzle. It gives you that extra reach to get up in the bodys and the small tip gives that extra pressure and precision to blow up into the small holes. It is a must have when I do carbs.
camoweasel
03-27-2011, 01:03 AM
Dirtcrasher,
In your opinon, would it be safe to say ethenol is causing or at least accelerating the problems you see with the carberators coming into your shop?? Even though the user manuals did mention ethenol being safe to use at less then 10% back in the day, I still think today's modern fuels are the root cause of all the driveability issues we read about on forums like this.
Dirtcrasher
03-27-2011, 01:23 AM
Ethanol is certainly causing issues; And guys with multiple gas powered machines are finding it impossible to keep up. Fuel stabilizer doesn't seem to help anymore?
It seems that if I don't keep using up the fuel, I have stumbling issues all carb/ carb cleaning related.
No worries, 93 octane will be approaching the cost of race gas in the near future :(
tri again
03-27-2011, 01:39 AM
I guess they did say some ethanol was ok but
hard to understand how they could know what 25 years of it would do
to plastic and aluminum.
It;s about as comforting as buying some of that 'new' 50 year caulking compound.
How do they know?
We can still find non ethanol gas and I try to keep my tanks full of that stuff.
I guess marinas, like boat gas docks have it too.
matt86200x
03-27-2011, 10:49 AM
Very nice detailed write up Dirtcrasher
leevarnado
03-27-2011, 11:20 AM
also if the carb cleaner doesnt work,boiling the carb will diff get the gum out.
tanks350x
03-27-2011, 11:59 AM
If you all don't want ethanol gas, go to your local speedway, and get some racing fuel. Yes, it's $9 a gallon but, it's well worth it... 112 octane minimally. I get it for Dirt Crasher whenever he needs it...
aldochina
03-27-2011, 11:28 PM
i have a ton of carb kits, that just sit around on the shelves. After i get into them, 9 times out of 10 all the interior parts are fine with the exception of maybe the float bowl gasket. Dont be scared guys!
RubberSalt
03-28-2011, 04:40 AM
The only issue i've had on rebuilding carbs was for my dirtbike, 1978 honda xl250s. The accelerater pump nearly fell apart, fortunatly, my dad had a spare with another carb he didn't need. The pumps arn't common in kits nor on trikes as far as im aware ;)
Also, a tip for cleaning the seat; qtip and toothpaste, just like lapping a valve.
sixpackrt
06-15-2011, 08:11 PM
I use this.
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/sixpackrt/crest-1.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/sixpackrt/crest4.jpg
skidoo99
06-15-2011, 09:02 PM
i have a ton of carb kits, that just sit around on the shelves. After i get into them, 9 times out of 10 all the interior parts are fine with the exception of maybe the float bowl gasket. Dont be scared guys!
i clean carbs all the time and extremely rarely use a rebuild kit. all it takes is some TLC
sixpackrt
06-15-2011, 09:41 PM
video
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/sixpackrt/th_007.jpg (http://s757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/sixpackrt/?action=view¤t=007.mp4)
250rRoostmaster
06-16-2011, 02:42 PM
Thats a pretty good idea!! Gonna have to try it!!
I have an air nozzle that I replaced the screw in tip with an old fassion BIC pen body. Pull the ink and tip out, pop the back off, put a couple of wraps around the end with electrical tape and it screws right in the end of the nozzle. It gives you that extra reach to get up in the bodys and the small tip gives that extra pressure and precision to blow up into the small holes. It is a must have when I do carbs.
2Tim215
06-16-2011, 03:51 PM
The ethanol issue isn't well known to most consumers. Ethanol is compressed into the gasoline and starts to separate in some cases after a few weeks. The shelf life according to most sources suggest it is only 90 days. What happens at the separation point is you end up with alcohol that is eating up certain plastics, rubber, and fiberglass. Ethanol mix has been banned for use at some Marina's after to many boats with fiberglass tanks burned up. In New York we are forced to use ethanol in are vehicles despite the danger to older equipment such as Farm Tractors, Vehicles, Garden Equipment, and other gasoline driven machines. Our local Yamaha Dealer has a container on their counter where you can see the separation. Yamaha Dealers will no longer warranty ANY fuel problem issues due to ethanol. In NY our pumps had warning labels on them that read, "Contains up to 10% Ethanol", which has now been changed to, "Contains 10% Ethanol". They are also pushing for 15% in NY now! Non-ethanol fuel is difficult to find and many Fuel Stations aware of the problems now carry special Fuel Treatment at approx. 10.00 per bottle. Problem is the treatment doesn't stop the separation! Okay, so what is the solution? As mentioned above be sure to use fresh fuel and on top of that I suggest if you live a mandated state for the ethanol mix make sure you purchase your fuel from a Station that has a good turn over with a lot of business so you avoid buying fuel that may have started the separation phase. Hope this helps!
jr315rn
06-16-2011, 05:16 PM
what is that machine called?
Billyboy34
06-16-2011, 05:44 PM
It’s an ultrasonic cleaner. You can pick one up at Harbor Freight for about $30, granted it is not as nearly nice looking as the one above.
bobotech
06-16-2011, 07:19 PM
Excellent read and very true on not normally ever needing a new carb.
One thing to keep in mind about idle screws and stuff. If a screw is to be turned in and then backed out, it will have a spring. It will also have a washer and a rubber o-ring. So if you got confused and ended up with a left over o-ring or washer, look at the jets/screws that have a spring on them. They will usually be setup like this, screw/jet then spring then washer then o-ring if the o-ring doesn't have a groove to live in. If it has a groove to live in, then there might not be a washer.
leevarnado
06-16-2011, 08:58 PM
i just recently started sand blasting my carbs with ultra fine glass beads,i usually let the carb soak for about 24 hours in carb cleaner before i blast them.looks and works like a new one when i finish.
carbs are easy. Mikunis are a great carb, easy to clean. Stabil is making ethanol treatment now and I heard about a new product called Startron that is supposed to prevent Phase Separation in ethanol gas. in just 60 days, ethanol will separate and if its in a 2 stroke, hello burndown and or hole in a piston. been thru it with my sled. after running it for a few minutes with stabil, all gas is now siphoned out after sled season and dumped in my car.
2fiftyR
06-16-2011, 09:12 PM
Hoppes #9 gun cleaner will make jets look like new after soaking for a while. You have to rinse them with MEK or other suitable solvent before installing because the hoppes will solidify if you let it sit a long time.I use the stuff to clean aircraft piston engine injector nozzles all the time,works great
BTW, Ethanol is a solvent.
2fiftyR
06-16-2011, 09:44 PM
Arent you kinda splitting hairs Tuff?My point is you need to get the residue out of the jets with a solvent that isnt suspended in another solution,but you probrably could soak them in gas, its just not the procedure where I work
Billyboy34
06-17-2011, 10:21 AM
i just recently started sand blasting my carbs with ultra fine glass beads,i usually let the carb soak for about 24 hours in carb cleaner before i blast them.looks and works like a new one when i finish.
Soda blasting works great too. One key aspect is baking soda will dissolve in water, so after you blast the carb just soak it in some hot water for a few minutes. Therefore no material will be left/stuck in any nooks and crannies; whereas any other material could potentially get lodged in the carb. It is also a very mild abrasive. It does a hell of a just removing dirt and grime without tearing into the aluminum.
jr315rn
06-17-2011, 12:41 PM
can anyone get me a link to that ultra sonic cleaner im going to get one for my birthday
200SXRIDER
06-17-2011, 12:56 PM
THIS IS THE HARBOR FREIGHT ONE FOR YOU.
http://www.harborfreight.com/ultrasonic-cleaner-3305.html
or this one is a bit more expensive and larger. your choice
http://www.harborfreight.com/25-liter-ultrasonic-cleaner-95563.html
Inexpensive. You might want to make a 1/4" mesh basket like he uses to keep the big parts contained.
Billyboy34
06-17-2011, 01:00 PM
can anyone get me a link to that ultra sonic cleaner im going to get one for my birthday
A new CREST Ultrasonic cleaner will run you about $500 or more. Unless you are cleaning carbs on a daily bases, I would look at Harbor Freight ($30-$70).
JustEnough
06-17-2011, 04:31 PM
Will an ATC carb fit in the small Harbor Freight cleaner? It says PINT capacity, that is pretty small. If it will fit a 185 carb, I wonder if it would fit a 250ES carb?
sixpackrt
06-17-2011, 06:21 PM
I got mine off Craigslist for $200 used you want a heated one the ones without heat don't do as a good job. plus the cleaning solution you need to get is a big help and isn't cheap $65 a gallon.
Here is one on ebay now $335 http://cgi.ebay.com/VWR-Aquasonic-Cleaner-150D-Heated-Ultrasonic-1-5Gal-/150612701389?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23113770cd
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