Need Honda 110 help!!

[250RWANTER]

Hey all, my first post. Site looks pretty sweet!
Anyways, I just picked up a Honda 110 for my niece. Its in great overall shape. Here is the deal. It hasnt been ridden in a couple of years. The last time it was being ridden it just quite, and they never messed with it. It just sat in there garage since. It had just had a new carb put on it also right before it was 'parked'
I picked it up super cheap, and tested the coil and replaced it and it started after a coupe pulls. Keep in mind this is the first time its actually been started in 3 or 4 years probably.
Now, at first the float was stuck. I would turn the gas 'on' and gas would pour out both oveflows all over the ground. I tapped the carb a few times and it stopped.
After it started up, with the choke on, it idled for a while, but would die as soon as I disengag the choke or give it gas.
So I took apart the carb somewhat and found there was a bunch of little 'rust' crap in the bowl (not messed up...just looked like it was from sitting or 3 or 4 years). I cleaned it out, and put it back together and tried it again.
Same thing. It idled a little longer this time, but still died. I would give it gas and hold it at a given rpm and it would run smooth and than sputter, almost die and then smooth out and then sputter. Then I let off completely and it would die.
Basically would only run with the choke on. After it idled for a little while, I could restart it with the choke about half way. Once it died again I would have to put the choke back on all the way. It wouldnt start or run with the choke completely off.

Anyone have any thing I could try? I am somewhat new to working on these, so any help is much appreciated.

Also, on the gas cap...there is an on and off position for sometime of vent. What does this do? What position should it be in?

What size spark plug should be in it? What gap should it be set to?

What are each of the overflow lines for?

Thanks in advance!

[jenndnn3]

Hey!!

The gas cap should be in the on position.

Sounds like you need to thoruoghly clean your carb. However something sitting a few years, might have rust coming from gas tank which may be causing you the heck you are having with the carb. You might want tolook into gas tank also. There are nice inline filter that can be bought at any hardware store for this, I had to put em on mine.

What year is your 110?

Spark for 82 and earlier is ngkd8hs or ngkd8ha gap about .3 -.4 mm

[ejc042]

The rust looking stuff you found in the carb is old fuel that has turned into turpentine. You prbably have this same mess in the jets. I would completely disassemble the carb and thoroughly clean it. jenndenn3 also has a good point about a rusty tank, if it is rusty it can clog the petcock screen on the carb.

[yater]

The 110 already has an inline filter. It's located in the petc o c k. You should check it to see if the fuel can get through. Sounds like the motor is not getting enough fuel to run right. The jets could probably use a good cleaning. Try spraying the crap out of them with carb cleaner. Also, if the gas cap valve is NOT in the on position, you will see the symtoms you describe. I would make sure that the valve is open first.

[250RWANTER]

Thanks for the replies!
Whats the best way to clean the carb. So I should COMPLETELY disassemble it? Any settings I need to worry about? Are there any mixture screws besides the idle adjustment?
Anything I need to be careful about (more than normal) when disassembling or reassebling the carb?
Thanks!
Oh and its a 1980.
Do I need a special gapper...or will a normal one I use on the truck work?

When should the vent on the gas tank be closed? When being stored?

also, whats the best way to clean out the gas tank? The bike is pretty clean, so I would guess the rust just came from it sitting for the past couple of years.

Just out of curiousity, what causes the gas to turn to turpentine?

Also what is the difference between the two plugs mentioned?
The only thing done to the bike is it does have a pipe/silencer that gives it a nice throaty sound.

Thanks!

[250RWANTER]

Where exactly are the jets located?
Where is the petcock....I didnt remember seeing one.
How do I get to the filter to make sure its clean?

Thanks!

[almac16]

Definitely make sure that the gas cap is in the on position.

Also to be sure you could take it right off and idle it and see if that works.

I know my SX sometimes would get airlocked and I woud have to take the gas cap off for a minute to let it catch up with itself. (I guess some cap was probably full of dirt)

...cleaning your carb is also a good idea.

[yater]

The 2 jets are located in the float bowl. You'll need to pull the carb out and remove the 4 screws from the bottom of the bowl (be careful--people call these "butter bolts" because they strip easily)--make sure your screw driver fits snugly and use lots of pressure. You can look at a schematic at www.bikebandit.com --go to oem parts and follow the prompts.--The petcock is the on/off fuel switch coming out of the tank. You'll see 2 phillips screws on either side of the switch. Remove those and the filter is right behind the switch

[250RWANTER]

Hey thanks for the link! Perfect!
DOAH!! Didnt think of the on off switch for the fuel being the petcock you were talking about. I was thinking you meant one on the bottom of the tank...I was thinking...uhhh, mine doesnt have one!

How about the jets...or jet. Once I take it out, how should I clean it. I would think sticking something in it would scar the inside and would screw up the flow.
Will some carb cleaner and some air do the trick?

What about adjustments....are there any besides the idle screw(how do I set that?)

I am gonna change the oil also.
Just normal 4 stroke oil?

Anything else I should adjust or check?

Thanks again!

[250RWANTER]

How are bikebandit.com's prices? I need a few little things for my 1985 200x and just dont want to pay to much.
Thanks.

[ejc042]

Idle air fuel mixture screw is the only other external adjustment. BikeBandit charges Honda prices because they are OEM parts.

[250RWANTER]

Okay, took the carb apart. There was a some crap in the filter behind the petcock. Some junk around the jets.
I soaked everything in carb cleaner and blew it all out real good. Should be alot better. Looked down in the tank and it looks really clean. Might be some stuff on the bottom from sitting, but the tank isnt all rusted out by any means. THe walls were excellent/no rust....I assume the bottom is close to the same.

One question. Next to the needle/jet holder there is another part that screws in. Looks the same as the needle/jet tub, just smaller. I cannot blow air all the way through that one from the top like I can on the bigger main jet.
Is that normal? I can blow through the little holes on the side but now all the way through to were the slotted head is.

My gapper is in inches.....what would I gap the plug to in inches? Or do I need to get one that reads mm?

One more question...for now. On the tank...there are two ports on the bottom wich allow fuel into the carb. One goes to the reserve port and the other to the normal. Does the port on the tank towards the outside of the bike go to the reserve or the other?
Thanks

[hondaATCman]

I'm not sure what you're talking about with the needle jet holder and tub but you should be able to blow through anything that has to do with the jets. I think the fuel "port" on the outside of the tank is normal and inside is reserve. BTW, did you drain the old gas out of the tank??

[250RWANTER]

yeah, drained the old gas out.
In this link look at the diagram....number 29 I cannot blow through the top down...Maybe you arent supposed to be able too.
http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/oem_schematic_view.asp?schem_dept_id=169038&section_dept_id=1&section_dept_name=OEM+%28Stock+Parts%29&dept_type_id=2&model_dept_year=1980&model_dept_mfr=Honda&model_dept_id=168577&model_dept_name=ATC110

[250RWANTER]

Okay, so after work today I go to put the carb back together after I cleaned it VERY WELL! Put it back together, put fresh gas in it, hook up the spark plug etc.

Pull it a couple times an it fires up but is idling HIGH!! REAL HIGH! and it was blowing blue smoke like crazy! I was like, wtf?! So i messed with the idle screw...it does nothing. So I put it back to where it was originally and shut it off.

I turn the gas off and check tap on the carb a few time, try it again and it doesnt want to fire. I check the plug, its soaked with gas.
I take the top of the carb where the thottle cable goes in, and put it back on., dry off the plug and try i again. It starts, but only if I am holding the throttle part way. and it still blows blue smoke. It backfires through the carb and the exhaust.

Something is wrong, its getting too much fuel, it has to be.
This is all with the choke either half way or off completely.

All i've done was replace the coil, plug and clean the carb. It ran fine a couple years ago before it just quit.

What could it be? What should try?

Also, would it matte which line is going to the 'R' side of the petcock for the gas on the carb, and which line is going to the 'O'. Is the port on the outter left side of the tank supposed to go to the 'O' side of 'R' side of the inlet on the carb?
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks.

[bigred110]

It could be the points.

[eh_tee_see]

Well for the o and the r, it says on the cock. and if you look in the tank you'll see a hose coming up from one of the ports; this is the ON port. The other one connects to the R. Okay running high idle and puffs blue smoke. The blue smoke is a faulty mixture. I dont know the factory settings but I'd say turn it in until it stops smoking blue. Now, for your idle, i'd bet my left nut that your needle became dislodged in your throttle valve. (test if it moves freely first) To fix this,take off the throttle attatchment to the carb. find the way to route the throttle cable out of the dark gray cylindrical object. The needle should fall right out along with a v clip. Take the needle and make sure the E clip is on the 2nd notch. Then insert it back in the gray thing. then stick the v clip horizontally in the bottom so that it sticks in and keeps the needle in place. then put the spring and the throttle cable back on and re-attatch the throttle cable to the carb ; problem solved! I hope that helps you man

[250RWANTER]

okay sounds like that may have been what happened. Like I said in my previous post, the first time after I put the carb back together, it started and ran at VERY HIGH RPM, then took that cap off that holds the needle and just put it back on and it brought the rpms down a little, but still woudnt run right and still smoked like crazy.

What is that gray cylinder called, just out of curiousity?

Also, the throttle cable should just seperate from that and the needle? And what do you mean by 'check to see if it moves freely first'

Anyone know what how many turns out the factory setting is on the idle screw? That should at least give me a starting point.

Thanks! I am new to working on these things, but its fun learning! Thanks for the help!

[jenndnn3]

What he means is push the throttle, it should be a fluid push, same consistancy throughout the pushing of the throttle. If it changes then you jet needle is hanging up, causing the high rpms. Based on what you are saying you still may have a hangup somewhere on your throttle cable to the needle..

your settings for "pilot" screw are about 1&1/8 ti 1&3/8 turns out from seating.
set at 1700 rpm for tick over,

The idle is then set from there.

Good job on getting it cleaned up

[250RWANTER]

THanks for the help!
I'm gonna try it here in a while when I go to lunch.

Where are the points located and how do I check them and know if they are bad or not? Would that be causing the backfiring? Or could that be related to the excess of fuel also?

[250RWANTER]

Okay, I just went and tried doing what you said was the needle. I took it out (it was just as you described, thanks, it made it easier to know what to look for).

I noticed there or about 5 (didnt count them) grooves for the E clip to go. It was on the first one, or the lowest groove towards the point/bottom. I moved it up one, which would be the second one....is that correct? I assume you meant second one from the bottom?

I also put the idle screw about 1 3/8 turns out from seating.

Dried the plug off (AGAIN) and tried to start it. Couple pulls and it did start with the choke on. NO SMOKE!! WOOHOO!!

BUT, it would not stay running. It ran for about 40 seconds or so. The only way it would start after that was with me holding the throttle part way, didint matter if the choke was on or off. As I was holding the throttle and it was running, it was still backfireing through the carb. And it wasnt running smooth......it would be smooth and then cut out......smoooooooooth...cut out, cut out....smoooooooooothhhhh. Get the idea, ? :D

Any ideas?

[jenndnn3]

Once you made sure your carb settings are correct then I would move to the points.

Your needle should be the very middle groove, or 3rd notch down. That is stock setting. If it ran fine with this before I would leave it there. So your throttle is now a nice fluid push same consistancy all the way around? I really hate to move to points until you get the carb completely down correctly. But then some symptoms do point to points so....tough call.

Do you have a manual? You need one at this point. I will describe the best I can how to check your points but that manual is very needed.

You ready,
On the head is a side cover, should be black, pull it. Your points are there. you also need to pull your recoil, and the recoil basket attached to flywheel. You can see the f and T marks on flywheel. Ok now rotate engine useing flywheel, watching points until the are fulley open. Measure this, the gap should be inbetween .03 - .04mm (.012-.016 in) IF it is larger replace points they are done.. IF not we will move on to setting em.

[250RWANTER]

Okay, when I pulled the carb apart...it was on the very bottom groove...the farthers one towards the bottom of the carb. I moved it to the second notch up (as suggested by someone else) and it did help, but still backfires and wont stay running.

So know...you are saying the middle notch or 3rd notch down....from the top? So where the throttle cable comes into the carb from the top of the bike...count 3 down and put the E clip there? Easy enough. =) I just wanna make sure when you guys are saying 2nd or 3rd one 'down' we are talking about the same 'down' :D

Yes, thottle is consistent all the way through. When I did pull the needle out from the cylinder...it didnt just 'fall out' I had to give it a push...maybe was a problem too? I didnt think to take that apart...but did now, and it slid right in.

I dont have a manual. I guess I should order one up from the dealer...or look for one in the classifieds or ebay.

I appreciate the help.

I understand about what you are saying about removing the cover on the head and all. What exactly is the recoil? Remove that?

Now on the points....I'll check them. I am sure the local dealership wont have them in stock anyways right? probably have to order them.

Also on the spark plug....what was the specified gap again? In inches and mm?
I need to get a good gapper...

What is causing the plug to still get wet? The needle being out of adjustment?

Thanks, I REALLY appreciate it!!
Like I said, I can do the work, I just gotta get some guidance as I havent worked on bikes before. :beer

[jenndnn3]

My dealer had points in stock, so you may be lucky...

3rd notch down or up doesnt matter, it is the middle one. you may need to adjust either way depending.

If your plug is wet, that is too much gas.

I want to mention airbox at this point...Is it clean and properly lubricated? (no mice nest are there?) This is just as important as the carb and points. You be surprised how much the airbox really effects things, if not maintianed itself.

Spark gap is .6-.7mm or .024- .028 inches

The recoil is the pull thing to start your trike. Under here is your flywheel..Flywheel is used in all timing issues.

I mention manual just so you understand exactly what we are talking about, helps to reference this stuff. Plus all your settings are in it.

I think you have a great understanding even if first time working on this bike. Im impressed.

[jenndnn3]

Here is a nice jet chart so that you can understand how each jets effect the carb....
http://www.keihin-us.com/img/calchart.gif

[250RWANTER]

Thanks for the compliments. I'm trying! I figure its better to ask and learn right the first time, rather than screw it up more and make a bigger mess out of it :D

Okay, the airbox, it doesnt have one right now. Its just an air filter (UNI) attached to the end of the carb. Dont think lack of induction is a problem. I got it that way, is that bad? Not good for water...easier to suck it in...but I'll get an airbox for it eventually. I think I found one last night.

now, on the carb. How do I know if I need to drop the needle more or less? As stated in another post....moving the E clip up will deliver less fuel into the main jet, correct?
When do you know if you need to drop it more....color of the plug maybe? But would the size of the jet determine the fuel input also? Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself....we'll stick to this problem first. its got an 85 for a jet....I think I read somewhere that is the stock size.


Okay now on the plug gap...so gap is at .6-.7 mm.....not .3 to .4? I was rereading all of this post and I think somewhere it was mentioned it was supposed to be .3-.4.....I just wanna make sure I get it right. Or maybe it was the points gap that was supposed to be .3-.4....okay, I'll have to go through the post again :D

Thanks!

[250RWANTER]

so how many jets are in this carb? the main jet and??? if the smaller one next to the main jet is also a jet...I could not blow all the way through it from the top down. only through the bottom and then it came out all the little holes.

That chart will take some looking at, as I'm not familiar with all of those terms yet, but I appreicate it!!

[hondaATCman]

Ok, I think i found your problem. #29 on the parts diagram you linked me to is the pilot jet. If you cannot blow through it, it is clogged and that of course is not good. Take a piece of small wire and run through the jet and spray down real good with carb cleaner or wd-40 or something similiar.

Put the clip on the needle somewhere in the middle. The needle jet controls gas flow from 1/4 to 3/4 throttle (and on a sidenote the pilot jet,which is clogged up,controls fuel from an idle to 1/4 throttle, and the main jet controls fuel from 3/4 to W.O.T., or wide open throttle) The clip position is mostly a fine tuning device to jet it just right, it is not a major problem right now, just put it in the middle.

Welp, clean your pilot jet and reinstall into the carb and tell us what it does.

[250RWANTER]

Hey thanks for the reply! Thats gotta be part of this problem! Escpecially if the pilot jet is the one controlling idle to 1/4 throttle, cause that is where this problem seems to be!

I havent gotten a chance to clean out that jet yet, but I will shortly.
Yesterday, I moved the clip to the middle position (this was before the reply on the pilot jet) and reinstalled it. Put a new plug in it at the correct gap and fired it up with the choke on. It ran for about a minute at a higher rpm (like normal choke rpm) and then died once I started taking the choke off it died. I restarted it and it would only start while giving it gas. once it did start, it ran smokeless for a few seconds, then it started with the blue smoke again!! :Evil

In a while, I'll go take the carb apart again and clean it out again (pilot jet incuded) and give it a shot and see what happens.

Question on the checking the gap in the points (forgive me, I'm new to points and dont have a manual as of yet).
I pulled the cover off the head and the recoil and all. I see the points but where do I measure from?
http://community.webshots.com/photo/80502944/147037184dXoxiI
http://community.webshots.com/photo/80502944/147037238bIdnLk
http://community.webshots.com/photo/80502944/147037726ITwHHg

Is it the in between the two 'chrome contacts' towards the top of the unit or the bottom part of the points unit where it comes in contact with the 'cylinder' sticking out from the middle.
Wack description, but from the top pick you can see what I am talking about.

Thanks!