rare find 1988 250es???

[wolfspider]

hi
i do a few cash jobs for local farmers on there quads and three wheelers, anyway a local farmer brought me his 250es for a new seat and exhaust plus oil change.
i checked on the model plate on the headstock and its a 1988 250es, i`ve never seen one before so it must have been the last of the last three wheelers made, cool huh.
heres some pictures of it. :D
what do you think?

[Lots_Of_Nothing]

wow, thats neat, i've never seen anything 88 before.

[ScottZJ]

Hmm the only thing I could think of why it wouldl be an 1988 is maybe a frame was cracked and they got him another one, in around late 87 or early 88. I would assume that they would have stopped production in late 86 or early 87 due to the change of trike laws.

[Lots_Of_Nothing]

i thought of that too,, but i kind of doubt it, who knows, maybe it came from overseas or something? a possiblity?, or maybe he bought that sticker off ebay?, although there something about the whole bikes that looks "newer" to me for some reason.

[wolfspider]

sorry guys i forgot to mention that i`m not in the states, i`m in the uk and the 250es is a guenuine bike, its just been owned by two previous farmers.
its definateley not an ebay sticker.
maybe they sold 250es over here longer than in the states.

[atcmatt]

Gday Steve,

Thanks for posting that up, was waiting for that. Do you know if those tank stickers have been replaced ever? I ask this because they are not the stock ones for 87. The stickers on there are the same stickers that came stock standard on the trx300es quad, which i think were made from 1988-1990? Not sure but i know they have the same stickers. They look cool on there. If you look it was made in the 10 month of 87. Very Interesting.

Matt

[wolfspider]

hi matt
yeah i just noticed the tank decals are different to the 87 es, i knew something was different but couldn`t put my finger on it, its the original tank and decals, its seen better days, i`ll have to see if he`ll sell me it, then i can restore it and have a truly rare trike.
steve.

[Lots_Of_Nothing]

whatever you do, dont alert him to how rare it is, just play it out likes is an everyday wheeler, ive had situtations like this before, and i made the mistake of mentioning it was rare, then suddenly the price from the seller shot up from $400 to $2,000.

[Wickedfinger]

Thats gotta be a replacement frame.

[Wickedfinger]

.... then again, the Consent Decree is nothing more than a Federally recognised court document that the major manufacturers signed stating that they would no longer sell 3 wheeled ATV's in the USA - its not a law and it was voluntary. It only applied to the U.S.

[Billy Golightly]

Another member of the forum in the UK emailed me thumbnail of an Australian '88 250ES brochure. He's going to send me a scan of it when he gets it. Definetly seems possible. Looks like more stuff for the Quest for the 87's page. :D

[eh_tee_see]

woah thats awesome!!! so much for that 88' 300es idea wickedfinger :P. cant wait for that 250es brochure.. btw, that dash looks like the one from a 300 too. it looks light gray and a diff shape than the norm

[threewheelin-feelin]

can u say quest for the 88's page hehehehehe

[threewheelin-feelin]

maybe they sold small amounts of trail riding trikes under the table for a couple of years after the consent decree was signed. why cant u just go staight to honda and find out the hole story i know they would know if they sold any 87 250r's and 350'x and the story on the trail rider from 88.

[atcmatt]

Dang that is way cool. I really wish i had ordered a set of those stickers instead of the ones i have ordered, but i guess the ones i ordered are stock. That dash looks original to me, same as the 87, they do fade alot over the years.

Steve,

Buy that trike! I wanna see more of it.

Matt

[J.D.]

Man, what a find!

[Trikeaholic]

I have no doubt in my mind that that is a real 1988 big red. You wont see one of those in N America, thats for darn sure. Totally cool find. Mabey 88 was the last year then?? I dont think a replacement frame would have that decal on it. I also think that the replacement frame idea is far fetched. If it were a replacement frame, it would also have been built in 87. No Manufacturer would have 3 or 4 decals made up for the 3 or 4 replacement frames they MIGHT sell. Oh, its the real deal, alright. Very cool.

[200xalltheway]

cool!! i think its genuine.

[ATC crazy]

I also agree, Trike', that its the real deal. Thats so cool. I knew that there were 87's out there somewhere...but not '88's LOL

Was it this site...that I saw a picture of a parts manual of some sort that listed a part for an '88 250ES and everyone thought it was a typo? Coulda been another site though....but IDK.

[mad_max]

pics of something like that deserve to be in a special section (call it "rarest of the rare")

Very cool, thanks Wolfspider! :beer

[threewheelin-feelin]

well trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro i was saying when the 87 search started if the cosent decree happend in 88 there had to have been some 88 sent out in 87 to some place.so no i dont think 87 r as rare andy more.

[trikerider2oo7]

sweet...i want one

[ATCwithdrawals]

I didn,t notice a helmet holder or steering lock on the forks??/ on the other side maybe??? COOL find!!!

[atcmatt]

Yup Its defiantely an 88' for sure. I wish i had that! I was born in 88! All the rare bikes are in Aus and Uk. My first 200es was an 85, built in the 11 month of 84.

Matt

[wolfspider]

thanx for all your replies guys i`ll take some more pictures today of it, the owner is coming tonite or tommorrow to pick it up because i`ve finished my work on it.
so if you`ve got any questions or want specific pictures let me know quick.!!!
i`ll try to buy it from him but hes a sly old farmer who`ll want top money!! :D
its a shame because it`ll probably go back to being abused again :mad:
steve.

[atcmatt]

Steve go on msn, for a chat!

Matt

[atcmatt]

If not, then id appreciate a pic of the rear diff/swingarm.

Thanks Mate,

Matt

[wolfspider]

hi matt i`ll take those photos for you, sorry i can`t chat today i`ve got a lot on, but i`ll talk to soon mate. :beer
cheers steve

[wolfspider]

pictures or rear end and tank plus key console which is definately light grey with small trx 300 type key.

[trikerider2oo7]

hey matt...are you sure you mean 85 200es? it would be either 84 200es or 85 250es unless austrailia had somethin we didnt

[Jez]

Hey Guys,

Steve's right. They did do them in 1988. I received the '88 brochure I won on eBay Australia in the post yesterday, so will scan it in over the weekend and post it on the site. For you guys who can't wait, here's the link to the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43972&item=2473751422&rd=1

More importantly, what this means though is that it is almost 100% likely that Honda did actually produce the 1985 ATC500R that was spoken about on this site earlier in the year. If any of you recall, this was the post that spoke about the Owners Manuals listings on a number of OEM parts supplier's websites. To check it out, go to the interactive parts page at www.servicehonda.com and type in 31HA. What you will see is an owners manual listing containing not only the 1987 ATC250R and 1987 ATC350X (which we are now almost certain they produced), but also listings that we all dismissed as mere typos for none other than the 1988 ATC250ES (that we now know for sure existed) and more interestingly, the 1985 ATC500R.........Check it out for yourselves! Makes you wonder doesn't it??????

The disappointing thing is that all the manuals for the above mentioned bikes are listed as discontinued, so we can't even see what the 500R looked like. I guess we'll just have to wait for something to pop up on eBay which it will more than likely do at some point.

Cheers,
Jez

[Jez]

Trikerider2oo7,

Yeah, Matt's right. The 1985 ATC200ES Big Red was also produced by Honda in quite significant numbers. Over here in the UK and no doubt in Australia, they're quite numerous and are basically almost exactly the same as the 1984 models, but with silver decals similar to those on the 1985 ATC250ES. I'll scan that brochure in for everyone too.

Cheers,
Jez

[atcmatt]

Man this is cool. I reckon those bigred stickers look sweet! I have the compliance plate off that 1985 200es. And the fuel tank had those same stickers of that on the 85 bigred. You see australia is the best country! :D

I will scan that compliace sticker later and post it up.

Oh btw jez, your lucky i dident spot that brochure on aussie ebay, i woulda been at it! Much appreciated if you scan it for us all.

Have a good weekend,

Matt

[Russell 350X]

That is a kickass find! Wow i never thought they were made in '88. Cooooolness.

[atcmatt]

Well i hopped to it and scanned the compliance sticker.....some may have seen it but for those who havent here it is....

Not trying to cover your post Steve, just added fun :D

Matt

[Seabass]

That is amazing...I want one. The sad thing is Honda would of realized the end was near so they probably didn't change anything from 86-8? You'd think they'd want to sell as much of the 86,87 components as possible...It looks very similar to a 86,87. Wonder what other country's might have had different bikes than North America???

[The_dew_man]

i did a search at google "atc250esj" and this is what i got

http://www.bike-parts.fr/photo_moto2.php?ordre=Ann%C3%A9e+croissante&pays=FRANCE&debut=20

cannt read what it says but can understand the Détails. where it says Appellation courante i put in "atc" then where it says pay i enter "USA". then i clicked what i think is search and this is what i came up with. http://www.bike-parts.fr/photo_moto2.php?appellation=atc&pays=USA&ordre=Ann%C3%A9e+croissante&x=68&y=15

comes up with 25 items theres trikes that we have in the us and i see a 87 250r, 87 250es, and the 88 250es and 2 fatcats.

if someone can read what the website says it would help out alot.

[eh_tee_see]

oh, now i understand :)

[wolfspider]

jez
cheers for backing me up on this jez, i`m looking forward to your scan of the
brochure. :beer
these are the last pictures i can take as the bike is being picked up today.

[atcmatt]

Gday Steve,

Those photos are much appreciated! I wish i had oredered some of those stickers instead of the stock 85 ones. Damn, O-well, she'll be right once the tank is all done and nice. I wonder what the esj means, well the extra j anyway? Has it got any special features?

Matt

[Jez]

Dew_Man,

Superb Site you found there my friend!!!!!! I took a look round and it's available in English. Click the first item on the list on the left hand side (Not the one directly under the site logo in the thin white banner, as that will create you an account). That will take you to the home page. Then just select the British flag on the right hand side of the homepage and you're sorted. Browse at will :).

If you want to get back to the original page you posted, come back here and follow the link you posted. The site must set cookies or something, as now everytime I go back there, is defaults to English.

.................................................. ........

Hey Steve,

No worries mate :beer . Will get it sorted tomorrow. Nice find by the way!!!!

.................................................. ........

Matt,

The decals are available (and it looks like they may be the only ones still available for the '88 bike now as they're the only ones with prices listed). They're listed as 39.01 Euros on the above site, but they don't list the part numbers. Here's the fische listing for the 1988 Model.

http://www.bike-parts.fr/pieces.php?num_moto=14&reference_vue=13HA0F31&annee=1988&modele=ATC250ESJ&page=marque&liste=UNITED

It looks like you can pay 15 Euros to see the part numbers which is refunded if you order through them. I guess that's their way of keeping people from going elsewhere? I'll check with my Honda dealer in the week and see if I can come up with any part numbers for that bike.

Also, the "J" suffix is the model year identifier. A=80, B=81.........F=85, G=86, H=87 and so on and so forth.

.................................................. ........

I think this post deserves to be made sticky..........Come on Billy :D

Cheers,
Jez

[broook]

cannt read what it says but can understand the Détails. where it says Appellation courante i put in "atc" then where it says pay i enter "USA". then i clicked what i think is search and this is what i came up with.



Go to the home page and on the right you will see a half British and half USA flag. Click it and you will have the site in English.

It is a great site for all Honda`s. All the micro`s are there with the prices of parts in pounds. The cam chain tensioner for the 88 250es looks to be the same as the 87 model but the gas tank is not the same as in the pics posted on this board.

Good find.

[atcmatt]

Way cool there Jez. Those stickers look sweet, yo ucan choose either the "bigred" or "superred" design. I have already ordered my tank stickers so i will have to just use them.

Thanks,

Matt

[petesatc]

yo steve
i thought this would be a good thread!!!!!!!
still looking for that missing link......atc250r 1987 in the UK :)
email you soon dude
pete

[petesatc]

by the way when you buy a new frame from honda it does NOT come the the model year decal......

[Jez]

OK Guys,

Here's the scans of the brochure as promised. I did it on a reasonably low quality scan to keep the size down, but it's more than adequate. If anyone wants a high quality .bmp (or any other format for that matter!), then pm me your email address and I'll sort one out for you. Scans of the '85 ATC200ES Big Red and Super Red to follow in the week. I just can't be bothered to dig through a whole pile of paperwork for them right now. The weather's just toooooo nice :cool:

Cheers,
Jez

[erussell]

On the site listed earlier it has the debut chassis as #JK400979 and the final chassis as #JK401398. Would that mean there might be only 419 of these world wide?

[atcmatt]

That bike has the same stuff on it as my 87 superred. It has that same front header cover thing on it. It has the horn, see it just under the headlight. That is a damn nicew looking bigred!

Matt

[atcmatt]

If you read the specs it says it had an automatic decompression! The thrumb throttle is on retared.... Ohhh i want one of these es'.

Matt

[marshallfester^australia]

Hello Jez, have been sitting on the side line and reading the info on the 250es that you guys have been finding and its great, but what a shock to find out you where the guy I was bidding against for the two brochures you won from paknjam on e-bay. They where great buys and well done. Regards Fester :beer

[honda_rider13]

isnt it possible that people could have ordered trikes from honda? i mean something like how service honda still makes the cr500 and gets the cr500 engines from honda even though the cr500 was discontinued after the crf450 was made. couldn't honda have done something similar after the consent decree was signed? for all we know someone could have a 1989 or even 1990!
just my 2 cents

[threewheelin-feelin]

honda rider thats what i was thinking i dont see why u couldnt order a trike today

[ClayW]

Has anyone noticed the rear mud flaps on this thing. They appear to be on the 88 Honda 250ES Add also on the other section of the site. Cool.

Clay W

[atcmatt]

What do you mean Clay?

Matt

[honda_rider13]

Someone should call up service honda and ask them.

[ClayW]

Matt,

What sorry I wasnt real clear. The rear mudflaps on this thing are huge. the wrap around from the back, all the way down and around the fender and stop near the footpegs. The honda add posted above and the others posted on here all show them. See what im talking about. The mud flaps follow the wheel well all the way around it. I also noticed that in one of the photos what seem to be metal foot racks that attach to the foot pegs. You know heel guards kinda like the 85 ATC 70 has. To keep your heel from getting sucked under the tire.

Clay

[ClayW]

Matt the first line above is a typo. I ment to say Matt, sorry I wasnt clear. Im typing on a laptop with a touch pad, and it tends to move the cursor around and moves letters. Sorry

Clay

[Yamada]

Someone should call up service honda and ask them.
very good idea!

[BIGRED_87]

hi
i do a few cash jobs for local farmers on there quads and three wheelers, anyway a local farmer brought me his 250es for a new seat and exhaust plus oil change.
i checked on the model plate on the headstock and its a 1988 250es, i`ve never seen one before so it must have been the last of the last three wheelers made, cool huh.
heres some pictures of it. :D
what do you think?

man, that's awesome! i have an 87 Big Red, and it always warmed my heart knowing (or at least i thought i knew) that 87's were the last year made and that i had the "newest" Big Red possible. now i just GOTTA get my hands on one of these!!!!!

[atcmatt]

Talk about brining something back from the dead! I said something a few months/years back about the automatic decompression on this 88 bigred, this must have been an addition to the 88 Bigred becuase im 99% sure my 85 doesnt have automatic decompression and neither does my 87 parts bike. Has anyone had any experience with the 88's since this post was last talked about?

Anyone able to fill me in on the decopmression side of things?

Thanks

Matt

[Billy Golightly]

Matt I got some email from a guy in the UK who is restoring an 88 Big Red. I'll send him another one and ask him to register.

[atcmatt]

Cheers Billy.

That would be great. I tried to contact the guy who owns the one here in Aus but have had no luck so far. Do you have his email on database somewhere on the site so that i can contact him?

Thanks

Matt

[Billy Golightly]

I sent him that email with a link to here. I'll give him some time to reply and then give you his email address. remind me in a couple days if he doesn't post :P

[BIGRED__87]

Hey I know it's been a while. Just wondering if anybody has ever found any more '88 Big Reds? Still would love to get my hands on one of those!

[petesatc]

Hey I know it's been a while. Just wondering if anybody has ever found any more '88 Big Reds? Still would love to get my hands on one of those!

Yep here's mine:D :D http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=56323

[ATC-Eric]

It seems that the 88's are only poping up out of the states. You would have to throw some SERIOUS coin down to get one to your door.

[burnoutboy]

they arent that rare guys..88 models, aka super reds are pretty common over here.

[84honda200s]

but over here its huge news man. for us some 87 trikes are huge news.

[Aussieboy1]

I have seen a 88 250 big red in Mildura Australia back in the day. My father was mates with the local honda shop owner. It was new in the shop that was late 88 early 89. I asked abotu only because l was into trikes. They sold a number aorund the area because of the vineyards.

[pudding]

thought i would post here and bring the post to the top of the forum

my 250sx is a '87, but they were still advertising them here in NZ in 1991.

they were a very cheap farm bike, and knowing what i know now i wish i had brought 10 of any of the SX or bigred es models back then!

[oscarmayer]

dudes!!! once i get some $ saved up, i'm going to buy and have one flown over here!!! i want an 88!!!!!

[Dirtcrasher]

It's odd....

Here in the states we have plenty of 87 200X's, 87 250SX's and I think a 125M or similar were also around?? could be off on that one though....

I haven't seen 88's, Honda must have had a surplus of 250CC shaft drives leftover or some sort of market in other countries.

[Twilight]

I know that like many other of the Australia members, there ARE 88 models in the land down under. The super red was used on farms a lot. The 87 250sx I had never seen, but many friends have seen them and some own them.

There are 88 350x's in Canada as a couple have been spotted. And from what I have heard, the 200x quad and 87 250r was for sale in limited quantities in Mexico. Plus remember that Honda did throw out a lot of the bikes that were already made, fenders, shrouds, frames, engines sat in the dumpsters outside of the Honda warehouse until they were all dumped or recycled. There has to be some dumpster divers out there that grabbed what they can... some of it could have been 87 and 88 parts.

[Dirtcrasher]

HUH?? You said 88 350X's?? We can't even find one 87 350X part.......

Whattchyou talkin bout Willis!! Jeuw crazy mon!!...............

Again......, we have never seen ANY 87/88 250R 350X parts for sale aside from one seat and who knows if that were a copy or an OEM seat. Regardless, it wasn't a 3WW member that bought it!

[Twilight]

I believe it was here that a 88 or maybe it was a 87 350x popped up in Canada? I'll find the post

Oh and as for the 1987 250r. I believe it was petesatc in the UK that has been finding parts.

Just because the USA dont have it, dont rule it out as everything being missing.

EDIT- I cant find it, but know they are there. They do exist, if Honda made just one, they exist. I know Honda made a snowmobile, sure only 3 were made, but they are out there in the world.

[Twilight]

Here it is; http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=24897

[Tri-ZNate]

'88 BR are in europe and OZ
as for '87 250R, I wont believe it till you show me an OEM frame tag
There is a 200x quad in PA, and its legit
And there is a '87 350X motor in a '86 frame in PA :cool:

[Atc GuY]

http://www.m3racing.com/garagesale/hondasnowmobile.html

[R Watson]

Hello there first 1988 i have ever seen nice don't now if you can help i am looking for 350x frame not bothered about condition also 350x engine or part engine also 200x 1983/84 engine or parts if you can help or know anybody how has one or any of the parts let me know my email is mrmwat@msn.com my name is Richard many thanks.

[atctim]

R Watson - wrong forum

Thumb this down guys!

[BIGRED__87]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Honda-ATC250es-Big-Red-Trike-Atc-/110530831786?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CartsParts_Vehicles_ATVQuad_Trike_Parts_Acce ssories_SM&hash=item19bc26a5aa

Is this an '88? The guy has it listed as an '85, but look at that rear fender. The gas tank decal doesn't seem to be an '88 either, but still! Anyway, I just thought I'd bring it up here and ask. Thanks!

[Thorpe]

Looks like half an 85 decal... And some real gay looking mudflaps...

[haggard 2hundie]

wonder if that farmer has any idea of the relevance of that machine or the fire it lit on this site ?

[350xRules]

1 odd thing I have noticed is the sharp pointed starter gear area on some of the later 87 and 88 big reds. I dont think I have ever seen this on the 85 or 86's. If you look close, where the electric starter engages the left engine side case that houses the starter gears, the top of the casting is much more pointed then on the earlier units. I have a 1987 big red I got from a dealer. He was in the process of parting it out, already sold the whole rear end. This thing was trashed too! Basically I got a motor with a damaged head, a frame, the wheels, tires and forks. The tank is wrong, the plastics are pretty messed up, the racks are pretty banged up too, but... Its an 87 non the less!! Paid $250 for it. I think I got a fair deal

[jonathandexter]

:crazy:

I just spent the last 2 years looking over seas for one of the 3000 Honda 250Rs that were actually sold there.

This is what I have found. In Austrialia, Europe, Asia, and JAPAN of all places. Actually sold 1987 and even 1988 3wheelers. Can you guess why???
Because there not a bunch of fear mongering crybaby pussies, who live their lives by what the facking 20/20, Date line, and whom ever is out there being controlled by right wing christian media groups!!! That have Highjacked our feedom or lack there of!!!

Yeah I am biased. A bunch if chicken trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro pussies, have ruined it for all of us. And that is the way it is in AMERICA!
Jonathan

[Xavier Lange]

do they still sale three wheelers in japain cuse jupain is the ones who invented the three wheeler atv and then they shiped it to the us and the after like 17 to 18 years they baned them. Do they have them in jupain still.

[remofire]

I was hoping to hear the farmers response when he offered to buy it from him!

[Xpress]

I would go out and buy a brand spankin new utility quad and offer it to the farmer in trade for that 88 :naughty:

[wolfspider]

hi update on this thread,sorry its been so long but i have not been able to acsess the site till today:) i did buy the 88 es, i just waited till the engne died on him then offered to buy it. here are the pictures of it lately. its had an engine rebuild but thats about all.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u56/wolfspider22/june10093.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u56/wolfspider22/hols09005.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u56/wolfspider22/hols09003.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u56/wolfspider22/june10109.jpg

[Thorpe]

Rear fenders and side covers are different than the 85-87's...

[Jason125m]

What did you pay for it?

[wolfspider]

i paid 250 uk pounds, but i had to put in a new piston, rings and cam chain, runs like a clock now though:)

[wolfspider]

i paid 250 uk pounds, but i had to put in a new piston, rings and cam chain, runs like a clock now though:)

[Sick200x]

cool, good deal! You've got some awesome looking property there too!

[swifty]

is someone in the states gona throw out a offer on this 88? lets get it over here even if it is $1,500 to ship it

[wolfspider]

cool, good deal! You've got some awesome looking property there too!

thanks for the compliment, we love it too!!