SCARED to make new parts for 3 wheelers-LOOK

[Trikeaholic]

From: Snotrax@aol.com
To:
Subject: Re: ATC's!! Sno-Traxx
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Sorry in the delay for answering your e-mail.

We appreciate your inquiry about our Sno-Traxx conversion kits. Because of the liability on 3WD ATV's, we do not provide Sno-Traxx for that make of ATV.

Please continue to check our web page for further updates.

Again, thank you for inquiring about our Sno-Traxx.

Sincerely,

Doris Mack
Customer Service
SCI

This is a copy of an email I sent to "sno-traxx" concerning a snow machine conversion kit being offered again for our beloved 3 wheelers, as you can see, this is BS. Please email them, asking about 3 wheeler conversions. I WANT ONE BAD!!

[Billy Golightly]

Holic you need to write them back and ask what liability? There is none. The Consent Decree is over.

[Trikeaholic]

I did write back, asked what liability, but they wont give a rats what one person might say, nor will they make a kit for just one person. I think its time for a tri-z jim style email campaign. comon guys, take a minute to defend our rights as free men to ride trikes!!! I want a post from everyone who writes them!

[Lots_Of_Nothing]

i'm on it man, i got like 40 old e-mail addresses, i will mail them like 10 times from every one, every mail will say something different so they wont think its the same person :-D

[Macs]

i tried to email them out of my hotmail and it said the adress did not exist, is the adress correct

[Trikeaholic]

try it from the website, its a cool site, too.

[Macs]

ok i got it. i had to email them at sales@snotrax.com i will email them five times a day. keep updated on your progress :evil: :evil: :evil: :!:

[jeswinehart]

that thing looks pretty spooky to me Trikeaholic,,, widow maker comes to mind !

john

[Dynofox]

Couldn't you buy the rear track kit for a 400ex and put in on the 350x? Then you will just have to get a snowmobile ski and make a bracket for it.

[Dads]

Did you check with www.mattrack.com to see if they make them for atc's

[Rod]

By liabilty I am sure that they mean insurance. Almost every company suppling products like that by law have to have liabilty insurance. So if you but their product & get hurt they are covered. Not that you would sue but I am sure that honda didn't think that people would sue either. This insurance is EXPENSIVE. I am sorry to say, but I don't think that they could ever sell enough product to make it worth their while. If you really want one see if you could buy just the back half & have a local fabrication shop build the front for you. That's what I would do. Good luck :)

[Mike Fort Laud]

That thing just looks like an accident waiting to happen. I thing if I rode that thing it would only be in a straight line. Maybe they are trying to give you a hint. In a tight turn it looks like that front ski would just dig in and fold the forks. Although it would be neat to own and the picture should be added top 3WW's picture archive.

[Trikeaholic]

mike, you obviously live in florida! snow machines slide really easy. see the skinny tracks? they are skinny for a reason, so it will turn. they are long for flotation, you should know that, being an aircraft mechanic! I do think the front ski is a little skinny, but.......what do I know? I know that that thing would be a big HIT on the trails and at the sled bars.

[Lots_Of_Nothing]

lean a little bit and it will corner like a nascar 8)

[atc86r]

around here atvs can't ride state trails in the winter. wonder if that would get on .

[Macs]

well i sent seven emails yesterday and today. they sent me an email saying they were currently busy servicing other three wheeler kit emails so there would be a delay. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

[Rod]

Now don't take me wrong, but I am sure some people will, won't tons of e-mail about the same thing piss them off. I get ton's of calls about my long distance all the time and because of that I am not changing any thing. Would you really buy one of these kits? I am sure they would be $1500 or so. Peobably as much as a trike would be worth & I would guess that they would't be much better in the snow, although they would be heavier.l I don't want to piss anybosy off but it sure seems like a waste of time to e-mail people about somthing that they won't do any thing about. Just my .02 cents.

[Trikeaholic]

yes, I would buy a kit for $1500. It beats buying a sled around here for $7000. It also beats riding a quad, with or without the sno traxx kit.

[TimSr]

If it truly is an issue of them fearing liability, I dont think a letter writing campaign will be of much help. Liability is others holding you responsible for an injury that occurred while using your product. It has nothing to do with the Consent decree, or what is legal, and you dont even have to be found liable in court to suffer huge finacial losses as a result of lawsuits. Just ask "big tobacco" and the gun mfg's. The "anti's" have targeted certian industries with lawsuits to ruin them financially even though they have rarely lost a suit. Gun mfg's have NEVER lost a product liability suit, yet suffered millions in losses fighting them.
When it comes to a kit like this for a product that was banned for years, and is now no longer made, this is a dream case for ambulance chasers like the Bennett Law Firm. Even I could argue this case in front of a jury and win an award for an accident victim.
What Im saying is youre misplacing your attack by going after this company. I dont blame them. I might want to make one of these for myself, but I sure wouldnt make them to sell to the public either. Not because I think theyre unsafe, but because all I need is to sell one to a moron, who gets liquored up, rams a tree, and blames it on my product, and ruins me through the courts.
There is no easy solution or identifiable "bad guy" here other than the long term errosion of individual responsibility, when its become so easy to sue someone else for our own stupidity. For this reason I would not jump on the bandwagon of attacking these guys, however you might be able to get a lot more help from them and possibly even suggestions for a solution by asking hypothetical questions, such as "not that I would do this, but say a guy wanted to put the 400EX kit on his 350x....... would this be possible?" " If a guy just wanted a ski for his , uh er, dirt bike.....?" This puts the liability on your hands and out of theirs.

[atc86r]

how heavy are those? the ones in dirt wheels looked bigger. wondering how much top speed atc would lose.

[Ace Mon]

Not to steer the topic away from the liabuilty issue but that thing looks cool !

[Trikeaholic]

I just found out that Maier wont be making any 3 wheeler plastic anymore due to liabilty. also, no more tires in 22x11x8 by any manufacturer, it has been studied, and most of this size tire ends up on 3 wheelers and early unsuspended quads, so the tire manufacturers, in an effort to stay out of court, feel that if the oem tire is worn out, and wont hold air, the deadly machine must be retired to out behind the shed, or the junkyard, where it cannot kill or maim any more innocent people. :rolleyes: see how stupid sno-traxx's statement was now???

[Trikeaholic]

around here atvs can't ride state trails in the winter. wonder if that would get on .

the rule states "wheeled vehicles are prohibited from operating on maintained snowmobile trails" guess what?? NO WHEELS!

[Mike Fort Laud]

Could it just be the fact theat it is not worth their time or money to offer this kit in production. How many of these kits would they sell each year for 16-18 year old machines. Maybe by them using the "liability" issue,they thought it would end the issue. Could they have just retired the making of the part for the finacial reasons. I wanted a Bill's Pipe for my 250R and after calling Bill's Pipes 3 times and getting the same answer 3 times I deceided on another brand. When I told Bill's I wanted a pipe for an '85 ATC 250R I was told " Those jigs have been put away long ago" Thay did not tell me thay wont make a pipe for such a dangerous machine. Or they did not say they still cannot make a pipe. But I just took it as I owned a 17 year old bike and it is not worth their effort to pull the old ATC jig out of the back of the pile to set up and make one pipe for the average Joe making a phone call. Maybe if I was some old long time Ex-foctory sponsered racer or a company it could be possible. there could be many reasons why they wont sell the kit and maybe their "liability" reason was just their poor choice of excuses. Since 1985/1986 I am sure that they have now designed a much better and safer product for both you and your bike. Possibly through their research and development they have found out that their product will cause a 3 wheeler physical damage. and don't want people calling them every day to complain their product screwed up their 3 wheeler and if they will pay for repairs. Maybe it is just because we choose to RIDE IN THE PAST that our options are limited.

[Trikeaholic]

they could have said it was not economically feasable, but they did not. They claimed liability issues. and I adressed the economics in an earlier post. I just want to know if an EX kit will work. are the hubs the same? similar? bolt pattern the same?? Then, all I want to know is how to rig up a ski, and im happy.

[86waterpumper]

"I just found out that Maier wont be making any 3 wheeler plastic anymore due to liabilty. also, no more tires in 22x11x8 by any manufacturer, it has been studied, and most of this size tire ends up on 3 wheelers and early unsuspended quads, so the tire manufacturers, in an effort to stay out of court, feel that if the oem tire is worn out, and wont hold air, the deadly machine must be retired to out behind the shed, or the junkyard, where it cannot kill or maim any more innocent people. see how stupid sno-traxx's statement was now???"

who told you this maier themselves?? If this is true than that is a SERIOUS blow to us trike riders. Especially sincer Maier is the only plastic made for some bikes now, like the 200x. I guess it's time to stock up on plastic and front tires now, it will all be 500 bucks apiece on ebay before long like the tecate stuff is now...

[Billy Golightly]

"I just found out that Maier wont be making any 3 wheeler plastic anymore due to liabilty. also, no more tires in 22x11x8 by any manufacturer, it has been studied, and most of this size tire ends up on 3 wheelers and early unsuspended quads, so the tire manufacturers, in an effort to stay out of court, feel that if the oem tire is worn out, and wont hold air, the deadly machine must be retired to out behind the shed, or the junkyard, where it cannot kill or maim any more innocent people. see how stupid sno-traxx's statement was now???"

who told you this maier themselves?? If this is true than that is a SERIOUS blow to us trike riders. Especially sincer Maier is the only plastic made for some bikes now, like the 200x. I guess it's time to stock up on plastic and front tires now, it will all be 500 bucks apiece on ebay before long like the tecate stuff is now...

I took holic's post as a joke, along with the comments about the tires. I'm pretty sure it was a joke (better be)

[Trikeaholic]

yes, a joke, to illustrate the rediculous reason that sno traxx stated.

[TimSr]

hey Holic, when it comes to product liability, these are the issues to keep in mind. When you sue a MFG for product liability, you must be able to prove to the court that the product caused injury because the product was defective, or the product was designed to be defective or unsafe when used as intended. In order to go along with the consent decree, trike MFG's never had to admit that trikes were defective unsafe or designed improperly, otherwise there would have been a total recall on them, and anybody who ever got hurt on one, would have any easy case in court. Many smaller suits were successful, but they didnt have a blanket admission to make it easy. This is why suits against arms MFGs have never won. If a gun blows up in your face becuas eit was defective, you have a case. If somebody misuses it, and injures you, you dont. If you use handloaded ammo and it blows up, there is going to be a lot of arguement.
I dont think Maier has much to worry about somebody arguing that an unsafe fender design caused them to wreck and be injured on an otherwise safe machine. Tires would be a stretch, but if you remember Ford and Firestone are still battling over who is responsible for the alleged unsafe combination of a particular model of Firestone tire on Ford Explorers. You could argue that your 3 wheeler handled great and was a safe design, then you put this Dunlop tire on it, and that the Dunlop had a defective design which greatly increased the chance of an accident and sue on that basis, but I think it would be highly unlikely a jury in a civil court would swallow that, even the OJ jury! Now if they have a tire that is prone to blow out at 45 mph for no reason, then you would have a good case.
I think this Snotraxx device, even if installed properly and used as intended and directed, will ride and handle much different than a standard 3 wheeler. Considering that people have already won injury cases by arguing the 3 wheeler design was dangerous, to expand on the 3 wheeler design by making something that would be even more difficult for the inexperienced rider to handle is begging for a lawsuit. When it comes to parts and accessories, you have to prove that they make it more dangerous than it already is, and that the accident was caused by the part or accessory rather than the inherent design of the machine to begin with.

Hopefully anyone who reads this will understand that this is my interpretation of product liability law, and not my opinion on 3 wheelers. Id love to see all these things available, and that people would be bright enough to know that riding in the snow will probably result in a crash (which is why most of us do it) so wear safety gear, and do so at your own risk, like most of us do. My personal opinion on the SnoTraxx is that around here you can get a good used snowmobile for $400-$600 so why spend all this money to take your ATV out of commission (as an ATV) which wont likely handle as well as a snowmobile since it is nothing more than a conversion. (Where have we heard that argument before?) I wouldnt do it, but I think people should be able to who would like to at their own risk.

[Trikeaholic]

Tim, you are taking this too seriously. The tire remark was to "put deadly vehicles out of commission, for the common good" and same with the maier comment. It was in jest, and you needn't spell out the obvious to me, I am an educated person, even though I bang out responses on a message board, and sometimes the grammar and spelling may not really be up to standards, for example, I have about 4 michelob's in me right now................oh oh the ball and chain is home!!!!!!