84 and 85 200M

[DDQ]

Hello. I have just acquired an 84 and 85 200M. They have sat in a conex box for many years. The owner has had them both for a very long time and gave me great details on them both. He said both smoked when he pulled the motors and I can see scars on the pistons. He said the 85 has slight play in the crank rod and that I should not run it like that. He says the 84 has a trans that is neutral at the top and the 85 is neutral at the bottom.
I dont mind doing a case split but I'd rather not if necessary and my plan is to make one rider out of the two.
My questions are:
Is there any reason I should spit the cases on the 85 motor and replace the crank in addition to replacing the top end? My current plan is to simply replace the top end on the 84 and pit it in the 85 chassis. Also, other than the trans being different, are all other motor parts interchangeable between the 84 and 85? Thanks!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210616/91250f19b714b5545d5b986dff4e9e57.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210616/4f32c352dab867f90dffc3d16bf508a0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210616/3898d6af5286c7b9cb87c485e11f0609.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210616/b7dcf7685232f758e8ebf60d395b7156.jpg

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[shortline10]

Check the cranks for any up and down play , side to side play is ok . Any up and down play and the rod will need replaced .
Parts should all interchange .
Honda changed to the up shift in 1985 so children couldn’t jump on the machine while running and easily shift it by standing on the shifter , dangerous.

[DDQ]

Check the cranks for any up and down play , side to side play is ok . Any up and down play and the rod will need replaced .
Parts should all interchange .
Honda changed to the up shift in 1985 so children couldn’t jump on the machine while running and easily shift it by standing on the shifter , dangerous.Interesting fact!! Thanks

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[ATC King]

Any idea what the black stenciled letters and numbers on the fuel tank are from? A motorpool? The air pressure decal seems like a motorpool thing too.

[DDQ]

Any idea what the black stenciled letters and numbers on the fuel tank are from? A motorpool? The air pressure decal seems like a motorpool thing too.I don't know but I can ask the seller. What is a motorpool?

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[350for350]

A motorpool is where they fix vehicles in the military.

[DDQ]

I want to go ahead and order a piston so I can take it to a machine shop with a cylinder for boring. Both cylinder bores measure between 64 and 65mm. Does that mean both cylinders are on the original bore and is the first step up to a 65mm piston?

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[shortline10]

Std bore on a 185cc motor is 63mm and a std bore on a 200cc is 65mm

[DDQ]

.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210621/eddd41401c28b488ce09c54bdae60f7e.jpg

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[kiser]

Lol that's a brutally honest and funny sticker!

[ATC King]

From the decal, trikes were the last hurrah for natural selection.


That makes sense why the guberment had to intervene. Can't have the useful idiots killing themselves off.

[DDQ]

I have started tearing down the 85 and I dropped off the cylinder at a machine shop for boring. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210624/dde30a75326d548d338f77ab9bc9758c.jpg

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[BarnBoy]

I have a 84 200M build thread and pictures of the engine build etc. Go check it out, May be some useful info for you. I also have a fork rebuild writeup when that time comes.

[DDQ]

I have a 84 200M build thread and pictures of the engine build etc. Go check it out, May be some useful info for you. I also have a fork rebuild writeup when that time comes.I found your fork rebuild thread but can't find the 200m build thread. Can you post the link?
Thanks!


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[DDQ]

I've got the 85 stripped down as far as I'm going to take it. I'm going to wire brush/wire wheel on a drill the frame and paint it black. It's pretty pitted around the rear.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210626/e9c4a3a6d4872a8613be5ee714d07183.jpg

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[DDQ]

.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210626/d56e259465c9eda12da090b680e03da8.jpg

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[DDQ]

Both chain/sprocket covers are rusty. Is there any reason I can't just leave them off?

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[350for350]

People do that fairly often.

[DDQ]

People do that fairly often.Cool. Unfortunately I am having a LOT of trouble removing the rear hub on the donor 200. If I am going to use the carrier like I want I am going to have to cut it off. I've already ruined it by beating it with a hammer after heating. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210627/d356c3b64f2bd396d2ba235efcc03754.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210627/fcc0d7e60b96f8a8a0152ad545874746.jpg

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[BarnBoy]

I found your fork rebuild thread but can't find the 200m build thread. Can you post the link?
Thanks!


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Yessir, here is is.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/187672-Barnboy-s-1984-ATC200M-Rebuild

[BarnBoy]

Cool. Unfortunately I am having a LOT of trouble removing the rear hub on the donor 200. If I am going to use the carrier like I want I am going to have to cut it off. I've already ruined it by beating it with a hammer after heating. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210627/d356c3b64f2bd396d2ba235efcc03754.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210627/fcc0d7e60b96f8a8a0152ad545874746.jpg

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Looks like it's welded on. Try and slice the weld and see if you can't save the axle.

[DDQ]

It wasn't welded on.
I cut it on both sides f the hub and split the cuts with a chisel. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210627/5bf87927dbfd8aa3c9b6ddda1c9c37bb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210627/f815535148a589190e71101951e52ca5.jpg

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[350for350]

The threads next to your axle nuts (beside the brake drum) look funny too. Maybe it's just an optical illusion from the picture?

[DDQ]

The threads next to your axle nuts (beside the brake drum) look funny too. Maybe it's just an optical illusion from the picture?That is an odd illusion! I didn't notice it in the pic. The nuts came off fine and the threads are straight so I don't know what that is in the pic.

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[DDQ]

I need a complete exhaust system. I noticed that the muffler between the 200s and 200m have a different part number. Is there any other machine with a compatible exhaust or do I need to buy only 200m exhaust on ebay?

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[BarnBoy]

I need a complete exhaust system. I noticed that the muffler between the 200s and 200m have a different part number. Is there any other machine with a compatible exhaust or do I need to buy only 200m exhaust on ebay?

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200E or ES exhaust will bolt right on also. Whenever I get a round tuit I'm gonna modify a 200X supertrapp to fit my 200M

[DDQ]

Rear end and new brakes are on. The hold up now is waiting on a header in the mail and the cylinder to be finished at the local machine shop. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210705/e71033fdd2c1d0ff9910fc47d91f5c16.jpg

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[DDQ]

Is there anything I can do with this front fender to get it looking a little better? It definitely doesn't need to be shiny and perfect but I'd like it to be more red on the top than it is right now. The headlight plastic too. I tried using a torch on a small test area but it did not make much difference.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210705/6f74581654a04ec63bdd2578cbbf0a98.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210705/29713f88ea6c841c16e9ae747606c4a0.jpg

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[Jim mac]

isn't there some you tube videos on sanding these things down with 400 then 600 grit?

[ATC King]

Heating the plastic won't bring it back with that much surface damage.

What I tend to do with plastic like that is sand as much of the damaged surface off as possible and work through grits until something the surface is relatively smooth, but not polished. Then I paint it. With as much UV damage as there appears to be, it'd probably be unwise to try and sand it all out because the fender would become very thin.

There are high quality automotive paints and adhesion promoters that'll stick and last well, along with looking very nice. Or, you can use the spray can plastic paints by the typical brands, like Rustoleum and Krylon. I use the cheap stuff because it holds up decently enough and I'm going to scratch it anyway, while riding in the woods. If the paint is a pretty good match for the plastic, the scratches don't show up too bad. It when getting creative, like painting all the red plastic, lime green, that the scratches show up like bloody wounds.

The paint will protect the plastic from further UV damage too. I've got some trashed fenders that were painted years ago, and they've just been sitting in the sun since replaced. They are still flexible/not brittle.

[DDQ]

Heating the plastic won't bring it back with that much surface damage.

What I tend to do with plastic like that is sand as much of the damaged surface off as possible and work through grits until something the surface is relatively smooth, but not polished. Then I paint it. With as much UV damage as there appears to be, it'd probably be unwise to try and sand it all out because the fender would become very thin.

There are high quality automotive paints and adhesion promoters that'll stick and last well, along with looking very nice. Or, you can use the spray can plastic paints by the typical brands, like Rustoleum and Krylon. I use the cheap stuff because it holds up decently enough and I'm going to scratch it anyway, while riding in the woods. If the paint is a pretty good match for the plastic, the scratches don't show up too bad. It when getting creative, like painting all the red plastic, lime green, that the scratches show up like bloody wounds.

The paint will protect the plastic from further UV damage too. I've got some trashed fenders that were painted years ago, and they've just been sitting in the sun since replaced. They are still flexible/not brittle.Thanks for the reply. I was under the impression that any spray paint on plastic will quickly crack due to amount of flexing that fenders do. Can I get the paint you are referring to at an autoparts store?

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[DDQ]

Sorry for the 3 week delay. I was waiting on the cylinder to be bored. I picked it up tonight.
Ring gap is 0.011"https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210727/b99882ae5a624c2bcfcee826c4f6d543.jpg

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[DDQ]

.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210727/27fe053cdaec955c21f2dfbbc374f9cb.jpg

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[DDQ]

Still 'grinding' away on this buildhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210801/41793d7acf9294ecc9b99c333b140c30.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210801/73d74da30399a35c356b168c979e57ce.jpg

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[DDQ]

One of the valves was very worn so I ordered a new pair from Shindy. After installing them I've run in to a problem getting the last dowel in to place. I tried more than one dowel but can't get any to even start. I don't see any damage or any reason for the dowel to not go in the hole. Any suggestions? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210809/6a46e9d629a0df97420f5c7c8591d9ef.jpg

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[DDQ]

I made alot of progress today. I am close to trying to start it. I need to get the rusty exhaust bolts off the donor bike so I can get the muffler.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210819/04fe42254f97b8cf3ad361085639bfd3.jpg

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[DDQ]

I finished putting it together. It runs and rides great but unfortunately it is leaking oil from the base gasket and also the top bolt hole for the pull start cover. I used a new oring when putting the new base gasket in just like the manual said so I'm very disheartened.
I have no clue why oil would be coming out of this bolt hole either.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210822/201316ac3764f1114194715574e2c99a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210822/4732f7bc67662fbd3ca8e09b7fb95c6f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210822/de244b9883c3d0ef3ea9dd656b105130.jpg

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[ironchop]

I've had that happen on a different machine, but I started putting a dab of sealant on my base gaskets where they meet the seam between the cases and I've never had that issue again. Sometimes I'll lightly diamond file the seam beforehand too

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[DDQ]

I've had that happen on a different machine, but I started putting a dab of sealant on my base gaskets where they meet the seam between the cases and I've never had that issue again. Sometimes I'll lightly diamond file the seam beforehand too

Sent from my motorola one 5G ace using TapatalkThanks for that idea. I snugged up the head nuts and will see if that stops the leak first, before pulling the motor again.
For the recoil cover bolt hole leak, should a new stator cover gasket fix that?

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[shortline10]

The stator bolt leak is probably from someone putting to long of a bolt and blew out the back of the case .
A new gasket and a 6mm copper crush washer on that bolt should fix the problem .
Or a cheap fix is to clean the threads on the bolt and case and use a sealant when you bolt the case back together .

[DDQ]

The stator bolt leak is probably from someone putting to long of a bolt and blew out the back of the case .
A new gasket and a 6mm copper crush washer on that bolt should fix the problem .
Or a cheap fix is to clean the threads on the bolt and case and use a sealant when you bolt the case back together .Thanks for the tip. My new gasket should be in Friday. I'll pull the cover and have a look this weekend

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[DDQ]

Here is the cause of the leak...the case is cracked. I REALLY don't want to tear this down and swap cases. :(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210829/52d45bf0ec5724012e29a3e3c7f2db43.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210829/7f3a45f39f2a5ffcdad02d1d5c1e8076.jpg

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[DDQ]

What if I clean the surface of the cracks really well and cover with jb weld?

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[ironchop]

Not sure on cracks. I bet it's dependent on whether or not JB Weld expands at the same rate as aluminum cases. I've only used the stuff in the past to fill case holes from chain derails on motors I considered clapped out, but running good but not worth messing with, so I could keep riding.

I'm much older now and more OCD about my stuff, so it would get sold or torn down

I guess you have to decide if you want to patch it or tear it down and fix it forever.

The other thing to consider is that the crack being in a bolt hole will open that hole up a little and make it easier to strip out from working on the machine. Most fasteners, best case, make about 70%-ish contact between the threads at that interface between bolt and bolt hole. Just something to consider

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[DDQ]

Not sure on cracks. I bet it's dependent on whether or not JB Weld expands at the same rate as aluminum cases. I've only used the stuff in the past to fill case holes from chain derails on motors I considered clapped out, but running good but not worth messing with, so I could keep riding.

I'm much older now and more OCD about my stuff, so it would get sold or torn down

I guess you have to decide if you want to patch it or tear it down and fix it forever.

The other thing to consider is that the crack being in a bolt hole will open that hole up a little and make it easier to strip out from working on the machine. Most fasteners, best case, make about 70%-ish contact between the threads at that interface between bolt and bolt hole. Just something to consider

Sent from my motorola one 5G ace using TapatalkAfter further inspection it looks like this hole was stripped and someone tried to force a larger sae bolt in to it.
I do have a spare motor ith a bad crank with good cases but I want that to be a last resort.

The things I am considering are:

1. Cleaning the hole with brake cleaner, filling the hole with JB weld drilling/tapping it for the correct bolt.
2. JB weld over the cracks then drill the hole and install a helicoil.
3. Taking the machine to a welder who can do cast aluminum, have him weld the cracks then drill and install helicoil.

Any thoughts on those?


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[ironchop]

Ok,

1) personally I would weld up the hole or swap cases, but I'm very OCD. I've never liked helicoils. We use thread certs at work in those situations which are more stable than helicoils. That would be a very small helicoil, and a pain in the ass to install I would think, but I'm impatient and easily irritated

2) there is a product that we use occasionally in situations like this where a customer plant can't afford to tear down a production line long enough to do a proper repair, so we have to do patch work. For something like that where the fastener isn't torqued much at all anyway, we used a product called Pig Putty. It's a two-part epoxy putty. They make several different kinds for several applications, so visit the website for the correct one. We have drilled and tapped the stuff with success in the past. The stuff is kind of expensive though. Metal impregnated. Works good in a pinch. I can't tell you how long those repairs lasted, but we haven't been called back to fix it again, yet

The thing about drilling and tapping JB weld, is that JB is very hard so it chips/shatters under stress. So when you tap that, your threads are actually brittle and will break off easier if stressed, in our experience(yours may vary). The pig putty hardens very well and quickly, like JB, but not as brittle for threads, which is why we use the Pig or a similar product like Alumabond or Lab Metal(which are cheaper than Pig, fyi)

JB Weld may even make a metalized product for this application that I'm not aware of. I'm just not experienced with anything they make other than the general use epoxy.

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[DDQ]

Thanks for the advice. I am going to try this product for filling the hole and drilling and tapping. If it does not hold I will drill the material out and have it welded.
I was not crazy about using a 1 part epoxy but it is rated 6000 psi compared to the similar JB weld product which is only rated around 900 psi. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210829/506398c84904830a547dc3d39ded8e24.jpg

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[DDQ]

I filled the hole and the cracks with quicksteel. I'll try to drill and tap it tomorrow. After referring to the manual, this damage part is not attached to the case permanently, it is the case spacer. If this does not work I can swap in the one off my parts motor without having to split the cases which is a relief.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210830/f420904198470be20dfce20221292bec.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210830/0b9f14bc229fdb52934a6b4f8141e9da.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210830/4d8c08ec4fec892fd58647b47d221cc5.jpg

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[rettespeedup]

How did it go? Have you managed to fix the issue?

[DDQ]

I decided to abandon the repair and replace the case spacer. I have the new spacer on but unfortunately ordered gaskets for a 200es which are different than the one I need. So, I'll be waiting another week to reassemble.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210901/019831ffb59190b31f20e8aac2d51ece.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210901/57306c10ee34e6f9423846162fe351c0.jpg

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[BarnBoy]

For future reference if you end up in a situation where you need to repair a crack like that, make sure you drill the ends of the crack to "end" it. Relieves the stress and the crack won't continue to spread. Otherwise it'll spread past and crack your repair.

[DDQ]

For future reference if you end up in a situation where you need to repair a crack like that, make sure you drill the ends of the crack to "end" it. Relieves the stress and the crack won't continue to spread. Otherwise it'll spread past and crack your repair.Ah, just like I do with cracks in plastic. I didn't think about doing it with metal. Thanks.

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[DDQ]

I replaced the case spacer and that issue is fixed. However, after snugging up the head nuts the base gasket is still leaking. I'll be pulling the motor out and taking the top end off. Again.
I plan to use rtv on both sides of the gasket this time. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210910/e08d77c9a40ecbca00944ed6b21ff8bf.jpg

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[DDQ]

The leak appears to have been at the seam where the cases meet. My razor blade got hung up there so I don't think it was perfectly flat. I hope the rtv I used will seal it. Tomorrow I just need to install the ignition then put the motor back in.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210911/c6e4cded9a85643c971ec628c548be63.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210911/bbf934a66c30f97c41b105107fceda3d.jpg

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[DDQ]

Back together and no leak. I'm done with it!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210911/e8c2dbaf389599d6e39c50bc7a72ddc7.jpg

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[350for350]

So now it's time to ride, ride, ride.:w00t:

[jasong_10]

Not to change the subject, but that seat on the 350x has to be the tallest I've ever seen, lol.