1983 Honda 200e bogs/dies on full throttle from stop

[JohnKimble]

Hello,

First post and hoping I can find some insight. I tried searching for related issues but did not have any lucking using the methods I've found.

I recently acquired a 1983 atc 200e. It's in great shape and runs well with the exception of full throttle from a stop. If I'm rolling 3-4mph and go WOT it gets up and goes no problem. I've adjusted the needle and have tried all 5 positions with no luck. It barely runs with the needle in the #1 lean position. It runs best in the position it was in, which was right in the middle.

I've tinkered with the idle speed and fuel mixture screw and it does not have any effect in the bogging situation. The previous owner kept it stock and garaged and hardly used it at all, so I have no reason to believe the jet has been changed. New plug, air filter, fuel filter and battery.

I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks!

[Powerlifter123]

Probably take off your carb and clean it top to bottom. Main jet or slow jet could be clogged somewhat. I have tiny drill bit set for a welding rod that cleans the tip. Works perfect for cleaning jets/holes

[350for350]

I hope you can get this figured out pretty soon. It sounds like you've got a pretty nice trike.

[JohnKimble]

Thanks. I will pull the carb this weekend and give it a good cleaning.

[Tri-Z 250]

Run Non-Ethanol fuel...I will never run Ethanol in any of my small engine equipment or my off-road bikes. It really makes my machines store and run better.

[JohnKimble]

Run Non-Ethanol fuel...I will never run it in any of my small engine equipment or my off-road bikes. It really makes my machines store and run better.

I'll try that too. Here's a picture.

https://i.ibb.co/FqS9fXD/20200823-152601.jpg

[ironchop]

This question is a bit hard to answer without establishing what you are doing to the throttle from a dead stop.

Are you stabbing it to WOT like you're drag race launching, or do you kinda roll on it hard? Your definition of "WOT right off idle" maybe different than what the next guy thinks

I've never seen a stock ATC200 that I couldn't get it to stumble some on takeoff if I stabbed the throttle hard and wide open. This is one of the reasons for accelerator pumps or thunderjet kits (or "squirters" on a Holley four barrel carb) on some machine carbs because it allows enough fuel to be shot into the throttle opening so that you don't lean it out fast and hard by opening the airway in the carb throat really fast, before the air can siphon fuel up thru the needle jet tube. Your pilot jet supplies off-idle fuel flow to the motor, but once that slide is cracked all the way open quickly on a carb with no accelerator pump, the main jet which feeds the motor from 1/4 throttle and up, cant siphon fuel fast enough to "catch up" without stumbling off idle when you stab it WOT on a slow revving four stroke ATC.

So you get a giant "gulp" of air immediately with a very low ratio of fuel vapor in it for just a split second. Accel pumps, squirter's, thunderjets are made to over-richen the low end of the throttle position to make up for the sudden increase of air volume from a quick throttle smash

Just something to consider

[BarnBoy]

I'll try that too. Here's a picture.

https://i.ibb.co/FqS9fXD/20200823-152601.jpg

Nice bike! I grew up on a 83 200E. Run only no-eth fuel. Change oil regularly. Regarding your bogging issue, pull the carb, clean it, and install a shindy rebuild kit. There are videos online on how to do this. D-Ray Smiths being a good one. You may not need the kit but the o rings are likely old and hard so you may as well have new ones on hand.

[JohnKimble]

This question is a bit hard to answer without establishing what you are doing to the throttle from a dead stop.

Are you stabbing it to WOT like you're drag race launching, or do you kinda roll on it hard? Your definition of "WOT right off idle" maybe different than what the next guy thinks

I've never seen a stock ATC200 that I couldn't get it to stumble some on takeoff if I stabbed the throttle hard and wide open. This is one of the reasons for accelerator pumps or thunderjet kits (or "squirters" on a Holley four barrel carb) on some machine carbs because it allows enough fuel to be shot into the throttle opening so that you don't lean it out fast and hard by opening the airway in the carb throat really fast, before the air can siphon fuel up thru the needle jet tube. Your pilot jet supplies off-idle fuel flow to the motor, but once that slide is cracked all the way open quickly on a carb with no accelerator pump, the main jet which feeds the motor from 1/4 throttle and up, cant siphon fuel fast enough to "catch up" without stumbling off idle when you stab it WOT on a slow revving four stroke ATC.

Just something to consider

Thanks for the reply. I'm totally fine if that's just how it is. By WOT I mean while at a complete stand still and brakes off, I stab the throttle to 100%. If I hold it to 100% for a second or more, it will die. Once I hear it stumble I can release the throttle and it can recover and go back to idling fine.

[ironchop]

Yeah my sister's 200ES does that if I stab it all the way open from all the way closed

However, if I have the throttle cracked about 1/8 and hold the brake, stab it and let off the brake simultaneously, it will rev up great. I'm pretty sure it's because with a partial throttle opening, the airflow is already siphoning through the needle jet emulator tube (the "main"), so the fuel flow is already in process and the instant vacuum increase from a throttle stab can catch up much better, whereas with a closed slide, almost all the fuel is coming in the carb thru the pilot circuit and not from the slide needle/main jet. However the pilot is more constant rate and can only supply so much fuel.

If you're used to modern quads, dirtbikes, etc with wicked good throttle response off idle, alot of it is because they are running carbs with accelerator pumps (like a Keihin FCR carb does) or they are fuel injection, which eliminates that stumble common in the old round slide carbs that we are running, you'll find the older design carbs lacking in that respect. In a faster revving two-stroke, you don't notice any stumble as much, but that's got alot to do with the faster and higher revving design

[JohnKimble]

Thanks for the reply. I ordered the shindy carb rebuild kit as suggested so we will see how that goes. I'm not trying to compare it to anything else, since I've never had anything else to compare to.

[ironchop]

No problem. Nice trike, btw

[JustEnough]

Original carburetor was PD55A look on the side by the bowl seam to see if yours matches. Main jet is 95 unless rejetted for altitude. What is your altitude?

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5019/5467500970_2fbfc676cd_b.jpg

[JohnKimble]

Altitude is 1500 feet. I will check on the carb in the morning. Thank you.

[JustEnough]

Stock jet #95 is used below 5000 feet. A high altitude jet would run lean and bog when the throttle opens...so would a clogged jet.

I used to swap carbs around until I found that chart and saw that they really do run best when clean and match the chart.

[JohnKimble]

I confirmed the main jet is #95 and the pilot jet is #38. The carburetor itself is a PD55A. So far I have rebuilt the original carb and cleaned everything, no change. I've rebuilt the original carb with the shindy carb kit, no change. I even bought a replacement carb from Amazon, no change. I've tried every combination of idle mixture setting, idle speed and needle clip positions with no change except for the needle in position #3 runs the best.

Maybe up the idle jet size?

[JohnKimble]

I upped the idle jet to a 42 and the issue is much better. I'm gonna leave it and call it good. Thanks for everyone's help.

[JustEnough]

Is the carb making a good seal to the manifold and manifold to the head? Maybe put a coat of RTV at each to be sure.

Check the rubber gasket at the slide cap to make sure it makes a good seal also.