1984 Big Red Wont Run

[Sinbin68]

Hi guys,

So I recently acquired a 1984 Honda ATC200ES Big Red. Got it for a pretty good deal as it had been sitting for a few years. Figured it's a Honda and you can't kill a Honda. Anyhow I get it home and I start going over all the basics.

New plug, checked spark, made great spark. Check the compression, about 160 on compression. Ok move to the carb. The carb had been gunky, so I took it all apart and clean it, the jets and everything then put it back together. Next I put new fuel line on it, although its fuel line was still in really good shape. Next I cleaned the petcock and filter on its tank. Now this bike had a plastic aftermarket tank on it when i got it, so no rust in the tank. Then i put it all back together.

Now being the bike had been sitting for a few years, I figured I would put a little bit of gas down the plug hole as I normally do with bikes that turn over and have been sitting for a few years to give the motor a little extra help starting back up. Now I sat around all day trying to get the motor to run and couldn't. I checked the fuses and they're good too..

The Big Red is in really good shape and has fairly good plastics and the motor actually looks really clean. Its shaft and the bearings are tights too. Even electric start "works" as it spins the motor...

ANY HELP or ideas on where to start to try and get this thing running would be greatly appreciated...trailpro

This is just one of the Hondas in my collection, but I'd really like to get her running rather than just selling her.trailpro

I refuse to believe it doesn't want to run being its showing all these good signs.

[gimmeamidget]

I am guessing you checked all the obvious stuff like bike is in neutral? Does it pop off at all when you spray starter fluid on air filter?

[Sinbin68]

I am guessing you checked all the obvious stuff like bike is in neutral? Does it pop off at all when you spray starter fluid on air filter?

Yes it's in neutral, when I spray fluid it doesn't do anything... I'm at a loss

[SteveRoll]

If you got spark, fuel, air/ no blocked air filter , good compression then you either have a timing issue or possibly ignition system is firing 180 out. If you need further help I can make a video or something for you. Change the spark plug, and pour a small drop of fuel down in the cylinder also known as priming. If it still doesn’t go most likely it’s a timing issue.

[Sinbin68]

If you got spark, fuel, air/ no blocked air filter , good compression then you either have a timing issue or possibly ignition system is firing 180 out. If you need further help I can make a video or something for you. Change the spark plug, and pour a small drop of fuel down in the cylinder also known as priming. If it still doesn’t go most likely it’s a timing issue.

I have put fuel in with the new plug (ie priming) and it wont fire, timing is my guess, but as I said, good spark and good compression.

How do I go about adjusting timing and whatnot

[SteveRoll]

Pop off the cdi cover on the cylinder head. Take off the mechanical advancer and ensure that it is not installed upside down first. It’s easy to do, and will ensure your ignition system is timed with the camshaft. It’s hard to explain , however the notch on the camshaft should be close to the notch on the rotating assembly.
If that don’t work, you’ll need to verify the camshaft sprocket and flywheel are in synch. But before that check the mechanical advancer / pulse generator.

[Sinbin68]

Pop off the cdi cover on the cylinder head. Take off the mechanical advancer and ensure that it is not installed upside down first. It’s easy to do, and will ensure your ignition system is timed with the camshaft. It’s hard to explain , however the notch on the camshaft should be close to the notch on the rotating assembly.
If that don’t work, you’ll need to verify the camshaft sprocket and flywheel are in synch. But before that check the mechanical advancer / pulse generator.The pulse generator is that little black cube thing on the top when you pop the CDI cover on the engine correct? I'm not too familiar with this kind of stuff. Now on the little piece of metal that spins around as you pull it over, should there not be one side that has a bump or piece of metal or some sort that's kind raised so that every ti.e it makes a rotation it kinda strikes that black thing?

Sorry I hope that all made sense, I'm not familiar with this stuff...

Now if we're talking about the same thing, and on one side there should be some sort of raised metal, theres not on mine... no matter what position it's in, at no given time is it actually making contact with the black plastic thing on the top.

If that's my issue, would the one off a 185s work on my 200es Big Red?

Thanks.

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[MrConcdid]

Change the plug, get another one.
I have had plugs spark outside the cylinder but not inside the cylinder under compression.
Get a new NGK plug hook it up, lay it on the exhaust and look for spark, if yes, screw it in, it should hit then.

Timing may be off, if the above dosen't fix it. set the timing, also look for the 2 light weight springs behind the rotor. they must be there or it will kick back and snatch the rope out your hand when you try to start it. Also if the battery is weak or a bad connection it will turn the engine over slowly, or not fast enough to start. I had a 200m, slow starter, wouldn't start at all, pull cord busted right off every time. got a new battery . that fixed it.

MrC

[Sinbin68]

Change the plug, get another one.
I have had plugs spark outside the cylinder but not inside the cylinder under compression.
Get a new NGK plug hook it up, lay it on the exhaust and look for spark, if yes, screw it in, it should hit then.

Timing may be off, if the above dosen't fix it. set the timing, also look for the 2 light weight springs behind the rotor. they must be there or it will kick back and snatch the rope out your hand when you try to start it. Also if the battery is weak or a bad connection it will turn the engine over slowly, or not fast enough to start. I had a 200m, slow starter, wouldn't start at all, pull cord busted right off every time. got a new battery . that fixed it.

MrCNot those things, unfortunately I have already tried these things and no luck

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[Sinbin68]

Not those things, unfortunately I have already tried these things and no luck

Sent from my SM-G975W using TapatalkThe timing also seems to be perfect so I'm at a loss right now.

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[shortline10]

Make sure the mechanical advancer isn’t 180 degrees out , their are alignment dots on it .

[Sinbin68]

Make sure the mechanical advancer isn’t 180 degrees out , their are alignment dots on it .Not sure what this is or how to access it... any pics or diagrams or video links that explain it?

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[shortline10]

Their are alignment dots on the advancer , the center part that rotates pulls out and can be installed 180 degrees out . Check the alignment dots to make sure they line up .






Not sure what this is or how to access it... any pics or diagrams or video links that explain it?

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[MrConcdid]

While your in there double check the dowel pin in the advancer shaft, if that fell out, it will never hold time.
removed the 10mm bolt holding the magnet advancer ( clean it while its off) remover the 2 Phillips screws holding the pick up ( little black box/silver ring) pull the entire spinning weight assembly out.
there should be 2 small spring holding 2 weights just like a HEI in a car distributor, that assembles rides on the same shaft as the advancer. there is a tiny little dowel or pin stuck in the shaft. I have to use needle nose pliers to remove and install it. make sure it is in place clean all parts removed and reinstall..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPZIjUF0OdM

If your not sure of how to set the timing how can you be sure it is in time?
MrC.

[SteveRoll]

Send me a few pics or attach them here of what your pulse generator looks like. Also I want to see the gap if you have feeler gauges. I’ll make a video for you to help

[MrConcdid]

Watch the video I posted, he goes through all the steps very good.
you will learn a lot from it.
MrC.

[ps2fixer]

Shocked no one linked you to the service manual, it gives all the info you need plus more.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

Anyway, I'm on the boat that either spark is weak or bad timing based on your compression test and assuming the carb cleaning and dumping fuel down the spark plug didn't foul the plug. For the spark to test good while not under compression, it needs to jump around a 1/4in gap, could take a junk spark plug and try to gap it that wide, or buy a proper spark tester like a PET-4000 (spec is generally 6mm).

As for the timing, here's a screen shot of the pages from the service manual. The center part is the rotar or also called a spark advancer, it's mechanically advancing the ignition timing with a couple weights on it and a couple springs. You should be able to rotate the advancer in one direction and it moves pretty freely and snaps back from the spring load. New springs can be bought if they are rusted out or broken if the rotor is overall good. The black box part is the pickup coil or as Honda likes to call it, the pulse generator. It sends the signal to the CDI when to spark. The gap betwen the rotor and pulse generator needs to be within spec too kind of like the spark plug gap and of course the rotor has to be on correctly (not 180 degrees off), and the timing adjustment needs to be lined up to the fly wheel "F" mark.

https://i.gyazo.com/1f521a6a19f52408a4106e4ba8535dd5.png

https://i.gyazo.com/b33c3f5b33a48ab5979bc1b74c5addb9.png


That's all from around page 75 in the service manual pdf.

[MrConcdid]

Show-off

Nice post Ps2
MrC.

[patriot1]

Did you get it going?