Tire replacement questions. Replacing my original 37 year old tires

[Pryme]

Hi all,

My 82 big red needs new shoes(tires) and I've been holding off because they are the originals but they are pretty worn out. Plus one of the back ones has a hole and leaks air. I'm just doing the rear tires, the front will live on with the original.

I found tires called Deestone D929 for 40.00 each. Standard square lug pattern

Anyone used these? Seem like they have decent reviews. I just putt around on the trike now days so I'm sure they will be better than the stock worn out ones.

Main question: the axle bolt had a cotter pin through them, one broke coming out. Do I need to use a cotter pin or not?

Thanks

[ps2fixer]

Just replace the tires, don't bother replacing the rims. The rubber comes off the steel. Pretty much you just need to match up the tire size for it to work.

[hippyplz]

You should put something in there, keeps that nut from backing off. The seen guys use a nail or piece of wire in a pinch.

I've never used that exact tire, but I have had some failures with some pretty similar off brand tires. A lot of it just depends on the terrain, if you're not doing anything too aggressive they will probably be just fine.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[Pryme]

You should put something in there, keeps that nut from backing off. The seen guys use a nail or piece of wire in a pinch.

I've never used that exact tire, but I have had some failures with some pretty similar off brand tires. A lot of it just depends on the terrain, if you're not doing anything too aggressive they will probably be just fine.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

Thank you, so those nuts have a tendency to back off? Any idea on how many ftlbs that nut should be tightened to?

[ps2fixer]

I'll grab the specs when I get home. You should replace the cotter pin too. It's not so much that they normally back out, but it's a safety thing just encase.

[ps2fixer]

Alright, back home and on a real computer. The axle nut torque spec is 43-58 ft-lb.

As for the cotter pin, basically it's for the just encase. If the nut comes loose, it will work it's way off fairly quickly with out something stopping it from coming out. If the nut comes off all the way, the whole wheel can fall off and case a bad day. That style of nut is called a castle nut, and it's common on steering parts for cars and trucks too, it's safety for them so if the nut comes loose, you'll still be able to steer the vehicle.

Another thing to note is the splines on the hub can get worn if the nut is loose. When you move the tire, there should be no slop or free play between the tire moving and the axle moving. If there is, the splines likely won't last long due to the movement. It's not a bad idea to grease or lube up the splines to prevent rust and make taking it apart next time a bit easier.

Also, FYI, the square bolt pattern you mention isn't standardized at all. If I recall correctly it's a 4x130 bolt pattern (4 bolts, 130mm circle for the spacing). 4/110 is much more common for Honda and I know they go upto 4/150, maybe even bigger than that. Same goes for 5 lug and 6 lug for cars & trucks.

Anyway, if you're not aware, you can unbolt the 4 lug nuts that holds the rim to the hub to remove the tire. No need to touch the axle nut which holds the hub onto the axle. Walmart and pretty much any other place that sells & mounts tires can swap the tires over for you, shouldn't be expensive, maybe even free if you buy the tires from them. You could also bring the whole machine to them, but personally I'd just bring the tires to have them swapped over on the stock rims.

For the cotter pin, I would think the automotive section should have some replacements. They make different sizes, so you'll want to find one small enough to fit, but big enough to stop the nut, doesn't have to be perfect, just close.


I have no experience with that brand of tire, but when I google it, it comes up as a 22x11-8, but stock is 25x12-9. The first number is height, second is width, and 3rd is rim size all in inches. You'll likely want to match the height and rim size, width isn't quite as critical as long as it doesn't rub anything.

Some tires are heavier than others, but it sounds like you're not an extreme rider, so you probably won't notice the difference much. Long story short, the OEM 3 wheeler tires are soft and made for a real light machine, most atv tires today are made for quads and side by sides so they tend to be thicker, heavier, and stiffer riding.


Just did a quick ebay search for the cheapest new tires and the same brand comes up that you mentioned, maybe it's the same thing? it says it's 4 ply, max load 430lb per tire (860lb for the rear). Sounds like it's closer to a quad tire but probably would work fine, just maybe a tad on the stiff side.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25x12-00-9-D-929-ATV-Knobby-Tires-Tire-DS7325-25x12-9-25-12-9/391869224039?hash=item5b3d39d467:g:muMAAOSwlAZaVS5 k



Here's more of a 3 wheeler tire that's the right size, 2 ply and lighter tire which would give a better ride. If you work your machine the stiffer tire could be a benefit for you. I've had good luck with the Kenda brand.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25x12-9-Kenda-Scorpion-K290-Rear-ATV-Tire-2-Ply-25x12-25-12-9-25x12x9/372244146602?epid=209927712&hash=item56ab7ae9aa:g:FzUAAOSwAy5aouQ2


I haven't really had a real problem with cheap tires, but I don't live in the desert or have plants with big thorns etc.

[Pryme]

Alright, back home and on a real computer. The axle nut torque spec is 43-58 ft-lb.

As for the cotter pin, basically it's for the just encase. If the nut comes loose, it will work it's way off fairly quickly with out something stopping it from coming out. If the nut comes off all the way, the whole wheel can fall off and case a bad day. That style of nut is called a castle nut, and it's common on steering parts for cars and trucks too, it's safety for them so if the nut comes loose, you'll still be able to steer the vehicle.

Another thing to note is the splines on the hub can get worn if the nut is loose. When you move the tire, there should be no slop or free play between the tire moving and the axle moving. If there is, the splines likely won't last long due to the movement. It's not a bad idea to grease or lube up the splines to prevent rust and make taking it apart next time a bit easier.

Also, FYI, the square bolt pattern you mention isn't standardized at all. If I recall correctly it's a 4x130 bolt pattern (4 bolts, 130mm circle for the spacing). 4/110 is much more common for Honda and I know they go upto 4/150, maybe even bigger than that. Same goes for 5 lug and 6 lug for cars & trucks.

Anyway, if you're not aware, you can unbolt the 4 lug nuts that holds the rim to the hub to remove the tire. No need to touch the axle nut which holds the hub onto the axle. Walmart and pretty much any other place that sells & mounts tires can swap the tires over for you, shouldn't be expensive, maybe even free if you buy the tires from them. You could also bring the whole machine to them, but personally I'd just bring the tires to have them swapped over on the stock rims.

For the cotter pin, I would think the automotive section should have some replacements. They make different sizes, so you'll want to find one small enough to fit, but big enough to stop the nut, doesn't have to be perfect, just close.


I have no experience with that brand of tire, but when I google it, it comes up as a 22x11-8, but stock is 25x12-9. The first number is height, second is width, and 3rd is rim size all in inches. You'll likely want to match the height and rim size, width isn't quite as critical as long as it doesn't rub anything.

Some tires are heavier than others, but it sounds like you're not an extreme rider, so you probably won't notice the difference much. Long story short, the OEM 3 wheeler tires are soft and made for a real light machine, most atv tires today are made for quads and side by sides so they tend to be thicker, heavier, and stiffer riding.


Just did a quick ebay search for the cheapest new tires and the same brand comes up that you mentioned, maybe it's the same thing? it says it's 4 ply, max load 430lb per tire (860lb for the rear). Sounds like it's closer to a quad tire but probably would work fine, just maybe a tad on the stiff side.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25x12-00-9-D-929-ATV-Knobby-Tires-Tire-DS7325-25x12-9-25-12-9/391869224039?hash=item5b3d39d467:g:muMAAOSwlAZaVS5 k



Here's more of a 3 wheeler tire that's the right size, 2 ply and lighter tire which would give a better ride. If you work your machine the stiffer tire could be a benefit for you. I've had good luck with the Kenda brand.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25x12-9-Kenda-Scorpion-K290-Rear-ATV-Tire-2-Ply-25x12-25-12-9-25x12x9/372244146602?epid=209927712&hash=item56ab7ae9aa:g:FzUAAOSwAy5aouQ2


I haven't really had a real problem with cheap tires, but I don't live in the desert or have plants with big thorns etc.

Thanks for the detailed reply. The tire I ordered was in the stock size of 25x12x9. They will be here the 4th. I already took the whole wheel off. I did not know I could take those four little bolts out and the wheel comes off that way too??? I cant even picture that. How does that work??

[ps2fixer]

I added an image of the blowout chart for the rear axle assembly, hopefully that illistrates what's going on a bit more. Front wheels on cars very commonly are quite similar, there's a hub with a bearing that the wheel bolts to with a big nut in the middle for the CV axle (front wheel drive cars). The whole bearing assembly can be unbolted and removed, but in this case you can't access the bolts with out pulling the tire off first. The ATV's are the same way minus the bearing, except you can access the nut that holds the hub on.

Anyway, I jumped into the service manual, and their instructions actually say to remove the axle nut to pull the hub + wheel off at the same time. That kind of goes against everything I've done my whole life and my dad and my whole family (we have a lot of auto mechanics in the family). Maybe it's just because removing the tire on a car is required for so many things. Either case personally I'd only pull the axle nut if the hub was needed to be removed for the job. Changing just the tire I would leave it on the machine. The 4 small bolts around the outer edge of the rim are what holds the rim to the hub. I added the instructions below too as well as an image of just the hub showing the 4 studs that goes through the rim. Hopefully they visualize things for you a bit better.

FYI, I assume you don't have split rims, but if there's 8 bolts on the rim instead of 4, be sure to remove only the ones for the hub (some people install the 4 bolts that holds the rim together backwards). If you're unsure, de-pressure the tire (let the air out), so it can't cause problems. This shouldn't be the case for you since they should be stock rims and tires.

I'm kind of shocked there's effectively no videos showing a person taking off an atv tire, all the videos skip that step that I could find. Also just to note, the front wheel is bolted on the same way, but there's a bit more that has to be done to get to the lug nuts.



https://i.gyazo.com/e52485d6a03f515378f519bc1ea7a89e.png

https://i.gyazo.com/5a8ed86c618b3a5743342b011c471378.png

https://i.gyazo.com/516cfc96b6f1d6a84d796f67ed1fe8e2.jpg

[Pryme]

I took the wheel/tire off together like I would a car because I'm bringing them in to a shop to have them swapped out. I dont have tire irons and all that as I just don't use them. Yeah this trike is bone stock and has the four little nuts inside the wheel.

I remember yelling change a dirtbike tire, although that has a tube, and it was such a pain to do. The shop will use the machine wont they?

[ps2fixer]

To break the bead they will use the machine, I'm not sure if the machines go small enough to pull the tire off though, the mechanic might have to dig out a set of tire spoons and do it the old fashioned way. I suspect a location that does a lot of atv work like a Honda dealer that sells ATV's might be better equipped. I've always changed tires the manual way including breaking the bead. Tire irons work for car tires, but too thick for atv tires, tire spoons are similar but they are thinner and look more like a flat spoon. There's a ton of styles, but this is similar to the style I've had experience with.

https://www.amazon.com/Ken-Tool-34645C-Classic-Tubeless-Tire/dp/B008PV9SS6/ref=lp_15709041_1_20?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1580497411&sr=1-20


The trick to pulling the tire off is to put the bead of the tire on the opposite side into the huge gully of the rim so the other side can be pulled around the lip of the rim. The hardest part about changing a tire is generally breaking the bead, after that it's super easy to pull the tire off with the right tools (even when done manually). Using this logic, you can pretty much remove a bicycle tire by hand, atleast for the old 26in mountain bike style tires and road bike tires.

Not sure if you change tires very often, but if you don't mind the manual work involved, the modern day "manual tire machine" works pretty slick. I'd defo suggest buying some nice tire spoons for taking the actual tire off the rim though, the included one works alright for car tires, not sure if it does atv tires well or not.

https://www.amazon.com/PowerLift-Manual-Tire-Changer-8-18-1/dp/B000PTKONY/ref=asc_df_B000PTKONY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312064691975&hvpos=1o9&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4010795729737771622&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9017118&hvtargid=pla-568351612542&psc=1

Here's a good video of a guy that has experience, does it exactly the way I do it except I have a long handled tire maul (the hammer tool he used). The screwdriver looking thing is a tire core remover, got one that looks exactly the same as his, same with the tire spoons. For car tires it's stupid easy, or in his case a light truck tire. I've done old like 50's era split rim semi truck tires this way that sat for 30+ years from my grandpa's house when he sold his property. He had a stupid amount of old tires for some reason, took around a week to load up a 8x12 flat bed trailer with the rim free tires to take to the tire recycler and then afterwards hauled in the rims as non-ferrous steel to the scrap yard. The money from the rims paid to get rid of the tires. Not sure what it is about Michigan, but the property I bought had a pile of tires too, sadly very few with rims though, probably around 40 car/truck tires though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRAS1A6eEV0

[oldskool83]

Use a quick pin, they are cheaper and easier to get out. you need to lock the nut on there from comming off.

[ps2fixer]

That would be in the context of split rims, OP should have the stock single piece rim, atleast what my 200e service manual shows for photos.

I've never ran into split rims welded together, the lip on them are normally a bit taller so pulling a tire on/off them with out splitting would probably be a chore lol. I agree cleaning the rim and painting or powder coating them if it's rusty is a good preventative maintenance item to hopefully stop air leaks (rust in the bead). Since the split rims have an o-ring seal that's not normally included in o-ring kits (too big), that 76 atc90 rims I painted and put new tires on I used the orig bad O-ring coated in red RTV, let it set slightly loose to setup thicker than the gap, then tighten it down. Worked pretty well for a sealant that's not designed for use under pressure. Buying a new o-ring would have been the best route, but I was like 15 with no money so I did what I had to do with stuff available to me. The paint was old paint my dad had sitting around and the rims were pretty rusty so had to fix that up.

Anyway, I suspect the welded up split rims don't seal too well either unless the welder is actually good. It's not too easy to get an air tight weld, atleast for inexperienced welders.

[Pryme]

Here is my setup. I was happy to see grease still on the splines and I've never had the rear wheels off and I've owned this trike for 11 years. Its spent its life indoors never left outside though.261422
261423

[ps2fixer]

Yea those splines look really good. Reminds me of the honda lawn tractors, the rims on them has the hub splines built right into them. I have one I use for mowing and a few parts machines, even the worst looking machine has like perfect splines. They have a cap over the nut to help keep stuff out, plus most people store their mowers inside, so I guess it's not as impressive as an atv lol.

[Pryme]

Yeah the whole machine is pretty nice. A member here told me the original tires on it are no longer made. Sucks I have to finally replace them but the front will remain for now. The stickers get zero traction in snow now and one is punctuated. I'll hold onto the originals though
261424

[ps2fixer]

That's the best looking 200e I've seen in a long time. Those rear tires don't even look that worn lol. My 200es came with the stock tires, but they were dryrotted so bad they had tubes in them and after about a year of riding the tubes popped. The tire was falling apart so bad, I was amazing the tubes lasted that long, like I could see the tube ever few inches through the dry rot rips lol.

Most (probably all?) of the 3 wheeler stock tires are out of production sadly. You could try to find NOS or OEM tires, but the cost will likely be out of this world for anything in better shape than what you already have. Defo keep the tires around, people that doe OEM correct restores need the OEM tires from somewhere, either NOS which is quite rare to find, or used OEM in usable shape.

You can check if parts are available or not by looking them up on partzilla.com. For example the rear tires are #4 in the diagram. Appears like there was two stock options, Ohtsu and Dunlop. Maybe one was just an alternative OEM supported model.



https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/1982/atc200e-a/rear-wheel

[Big G]

Those splines look beautiful...love seeing factory grease still on them too.

[Pryme]

Thanks guys. Yeah they are not totally bald but they are very slick and rounded over. I wonder what would happen if I rotated them so the other direction points forward? Probably ride bad. Plus one is leaking, if I inflate it it is flat in two days. I will certainly hold onto them. Finding replacements for 40.00 each sealed the deal.

[bkvette3]

Check out this video for changing ATV tires with hand tools - a lot of great tips/pointers to make the job simple. I changed tires with this technique with ease. Got all my original OEM date coded tires sitting on the shelf - now driving on replacements. Check out the kid's boots in the video - pretty cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13KkdtIz3j0

[Pryme]

Wow glad I ordered while the tires were on rollback on walmart's website. They jumped up 32.00 each now to 72.00
Should be coming tomorrow

[hippyplz]

Nice score[emoji109] my wife always complains about Walmart's online prices jumping around, that's a big jump though.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[Pryme]

Nice score[emoji109] my wife always complains about Walmart's online prices jumping around, that's a big jump though.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

Yeah it is. They probably sell things really low than raise the price way up to make some loss back. That jump is insane though.

[ps2fixer]

I doubt they are selling at a loss even at the low price lol. It's like parts stores and auto mechanical shops. It's generally accepted that there's a 30% markup from parts store to mechanic shop (the price they sell you the part for). The parts store typically delivers the part, and the only time involved for the mechanic shop is the call to order the part. The part store has easily 30% mark up from what the business pays for the part, it's probably closer to 50%-100% markup. It's just how business works, every set of hands something goes through is anothe set of hands that needs to make a profit to keep doing their work. Ideally the best price you could get is buying direct from the manufacture, but they don't normally care about single item sales, they want to sell 1000 units at once. That's how the distrubution network works, they buy in bulk, then sell in smaller quantities to stores etc that can accept say 20 units each, then the customer buys 1-2.

I've personally hit this wall myself, the connector to make the 84-85 round CDI adapters I was able to get through the guy I'm working with in the past, but his source closed up and now we have to order like 5000 qty min order. Price is a lot better per unit, but 5000 connectors for a very niche market is very very hard to invest in with out putting a huge markup on the connector value.

Anyway, the online walmart store is more like amazon, there's more than one seller, and they can choose whatever price they want. The person selling the cheap priced tires probably ran out of stock, so it's the next best price from the short list of sellers.

[Pryme]

I doubt they are selling at a loss even at the low price lol. It's like parts stores and auto mechanical shops. It's generally accepted that there's a 30% markup from parts store to mechanic shop (the price they sell you the part for). The parts store typically delivers the part, and the only time involved for the mechanic shop is the call to order the part. The part store has easily 30% mark up from what the business pays for the part, it's probably closer to 50%-100% markup. It's just how business works, every set of hands something goes through is anothe set of hands that needs to make a profit to keep doing their work. Ideally the best price you could get is buying direct from the manufacture, but they don't normally care about single item sales, they want to sell 1000 units at once. That's how the distrubution network works, they buy in bulk, then sell in smaller quantities to stores etc that can accept say 20 units each, then the customer buys 1-2.

I've personally hit this wall myself, the connector to make the 84-85 round CDI adapters I was able to get through the guy I'm working with in the past, but his source closed up and now we have to order like 5000 qty min order. Price is a lot better per unit, but 5000 connectors for a very niche market is very very hard to invest in with out putting a huge markup on the connector value.

Anyway, the online walmart store is more like amazon, there's more than one seller, and they can choose whatever price they want. The person selling the cheap priced tires probably ran out of stock, so it's the next best price from the short list of sellers.

Oh yeah no way they sold them at a loss, I meant the small loss on profit will be made up selling them for more now. But you're right it could be a different seller.

Tires came today! They seem nice even though they are all smushed in, it's like they are vacuum sealed or something. I can push them out but they go back in again I'm sure that when they are mounted and aired up they will be good. The lugs are sure better than my stockers

[Pryme]

Here they are
261449

[ps2fixer]

Yea pretty typical for tires to be smushed down as much as possible for shipping (less area = cheaper rates). Throw something between the two beads to help encourage the tire to widen back to normal, the person mounting the tire will thank you. I bought small tractor tires before to be mounted on truck rims and they shipped the same way. Was nearly impossible to get them to take air. Doesn't help the rims were wider than the tires (7in vs I think the tire was 5in wide). Those tires made my yard truck unstopable though, never got it stuck, but it sure tore up the trails just driving through them where everything else would get stuck lol.

Too bad I got the truck with a bad frame, and the mud etc didn't help matters. About half of it went to the scrap yard, and the other half got sold on ebay, those Toyota truck parts are like the best selling vehicle parts I know of. I've thought about putting the tires off and putting them on atv rims and run them on a beater big red or something similar but they are 30in so a bit large for that with out some re-gearing mods. BTW, that truck was sold to me as a ready to drive down the road vehicle, some people just don't know what they have, clearly wasn't ready for the road ever, the wiring was hacked up really bad (carb'ed body with an EFI engine). It had a nice interior which was worth the price of the whole truck plus I got to use it for a few years. I got like 1/2 my money back out of the aftermarket box too (fiberglass bed sides are desirable).

EDIT:

Oh those tires aren't bad at all, the tires I had were completely flat lol, the two beads were touching each other at rest. Those tires should mount up super easy. The air pressure will push the tread out.

https://i.gyazo.com/37f19b19773dd5e77268d5523b7742e8.jpg

[Pryme]

I have a soft spot for old yotas. I've had two.
261451
261452

[ps2fixer]

Ahh, I see you like the generation before the ones I had, 78-83 if I recall correctly. The ones I have had were always 86-87, never got lucky to find a 84-85 with the solid front axle. Very few are in good shape here because of the road salts but I've bought a ton of parts machines lol. If you need anything for the 84-88 generation or 89-95 generation, shoot me a pm. Also if you have any wiring/pig tails needed, send me a photo of what you need. I slowly got into making wiring related parts for these trucks.

I had a 96 Tacoma, but sadly got hit with the frame rot problem got it for a steal in great shape for $2000, asking price was $3600 but had some rust starting on the body. One year later the frame is busted through at the driver's side leaf spring, no sign till it just broke one day. Could have plated and welded it up, ended up just selling it and another parts truck I had with a really bad frame but a great low miles engine/trans for $1900 together to cut my losses.

I love the newer engines, but I really like the build style/quality of the older trucks. The big mixed up model to get that desired effect is the 95-98 T100. The frame, suspension etc is the same as the old mini trucks, just wider, but the engine and rear diff is the newer style that ultimately ended up in the Tacoma, 4Runners etc. Love my 98 T100 SR5, but sadly has a miss right now, I think I've narrowed it down to a bad injector. Handy to have a collection of parts vehicles to swap parts around to make troubleshooting easier and cheaper =). Sadly the T100 is hit hard with being a Michigan vehicle all it's life, so the body is pretty shot, but surprise, the frame is holding up just fine. Front lower control arms are started to get pretty rusted, so I'll have to swap them out before too long.

I also have a couple first gen Tundra's (what the T100 turned into), and man the build quality dropped really badly. The door pins on both parts vehicles I have are completely shot, while every toyota I've owned that's older the door pins are great on including a truck with 512k miles. Seems like around 2000 is when quality dropped for Toyota :(. Same story for the corolla, 97 was a great car, 98+ i'm not so sure, every one I find needs a lot of work. Camry is similar, started off with the 92-96 body style, my parents moved to the nicer looking 97-2002 style, but the body is thinner, more clunks and bangs, they rust out sooner, etc. Can't bash toyota too hard though, effectively every one I've drove I've got it past 300k miles no problem not counting the Tacoma. The T100 might be the second one I don't get past 300k miles but it's from rust more than real issues like engine/transmission etc (it's also a work truck, so it hauls wood every year, scrap metal, etc whatever I need to move).

BTW, the pick of the 86 above doesn't show the rust, the frame was bad way before I bought it, last owner put like 60+ chain saw bars on the frame to plate it with bubble gum welds (falls off with a hammer). The floor board is just gone, the cab mount there does nothing as it wasn't even connected to the cab any more lol. Rear cab mount wasn't any better. Right behind the cam the frame was broke in two, the passenger side is what held the truck up. After pulling the box off and stripping the parts out all that was left was the cab, frame, axles, engine & trans. Car dollying it to my dad's place to pull the engine, trans, and axles the truck was so falling apart I had to come along the front of the frame down to the dolly so the truck didn't break in half. Amazing I used it for a year or two like that. I think I drove 15-20mph all the way lol.

[Pryme]

Both my brother and brother in law have T100 4x4s. One is a reg cab long bed manual the other is a ext cab short ced auto. Great trucks. I have a 16 Tundra now.

[ps2fixer]

Cool stuff, does the reb cab have the 2.7L 3RZ engine? What kind of MPG does it get? According to a couple different people I met, they get around 27mpg. The 4x4 v6 3.4L 5vz gets around 20-22mpg unless you hyper-mile it, I've gotten near 25mpg. The 2wd 86 extra cab long box I drove for a few months was getting 30-35mpg and the carb floods over at idle so I have the idle set high, and the front right caliper hangs up after braking. I could probably pull 35-40mpg out of that truck lol. Oh it has like 270k miles on it too xD.

Toyota makes one of the best automatic transmissions, but there's still something about driving a stick that I really like. Really wish they made something with the 1UZ v8 engine that had a stick factory. Might be throwing one of those in my T100 once I find a better cab for the frame. It's basically the power of a super charged 3.4L, but NA 4.0L that weighs less than the v6 and should pull about the same mpg. The same team that designed the 2JZ engine (the supra tuner engine) designed the 1UZ. It's known to last 400-500k miles if taken care of.

[Pryme]

Both the T100's have the 3.4 in them. The reg cab is a 95 I believe which I think was the last year made in Japan

[Pryme]

Here's a pic
261453

[ps2fixer]

Nope pretty sure all T100's are Japanese built, my 98 is a JT vin. Starting with the 2000 Tundra they were made in Texas (5T) and Tacoma was made I think it was Ohio for 4T. My corolla is a 4T, Camry 4T (some Camry's are JT), I think it was all 4Runners are Japanese, All or most of Lexus models are Japanese, and pretty sure Landcruiser is Japanese built too. Pretty much anything premium and/or a world wide model is made in Japan and imported on a boat, anything else is american/canadaian built (for the US market) and some of the most common models in usa are built here like the Tundra I suspect is more of a USA model than Europe.

Interesting about the 3.4L reg cap, I think most reg cabs are 2.7L unless maybe the 4x4 model, but I've never seen a reg cab 4x4 95+, all the ones I've seen are 93-94 except I think one posted on a forum. I guess it's kind of like the early Trundras, 2wd got the 3.4L while 4x4 and I think extended cabs got the 2UZ v8.

Kind of funny this turned into a Toyota thread lol.

[Pryme]

Tires are on.
Tech at the tire shop said one was good and the other the tire and wheel were basically rusted together inside and he told me he had to grind the wheel on the inside. One tire was all brown inside and the other was fine, all black.

Kept the original tires of course.

The one with the rust inside had a plug in the tire I wonder if it let just a hair bit of moisture inside because that plug pre dates me owning the trike (11yrs) and that tire has been going flat for about a year and i just pump it up when i use it.
I put a generous amount of new grease on the splines and a tad bit of copper antiseeze on the actual threads.
I used a hitch/hair pin in place of a cotter pin, same type of pin that holds rc car bodies on.

Here she is now.
261466

[ps2fixer]

The R clip should be fine for the axle nut, just needs to be able to stop the nut from coming off from vibration and such.

Hopefully the tech cleaned up the rim for you, ideally repainted the sanded down rim to prevent future rust. Just a guess but the machine could have sat for a bit or something and got water in the tire with the hole in it if it sat flat. If it was always aired up, I don't really see how water could sneak it's way in that route. Of course if the tire was low often, the bead pulls back and can let junk get in from that direction which I'd guess is the main source of the problem and would make the bead leak worse.

+1 for the grease and anti seize =).

Looks like the tires match up quite well.

[Pryme]

The R clip should be fine for the axle nut, just needs to be able to stop the nut from coming off from vibration and such.

Hopefully the tech cleaned up the rim for you, ideally repainted the sanded down rim to prevent future rust. Just a guess but the machine could have sat for a bit or something and got water in the tire with the hole in it if it sat flat. If it was always aired up, I don't really see how water could sneak it's way in that route. Of course if the tire was low often, the bead pulls back and can let junk get in from that direction which I'd guess is the main source of the problem and would make the bead leak worse.

+1 for the grease and anti seize =).

Looks like the tires match up quite well.

It could be due to riding it in snow low on air and sometimes I'd power slide it around pretty hard in the snow. He said he did sand it down and used bead sealer too. So hope it's good. I'm sure these tires will be on for a very long time.

[ps2fixer]

Should be another 37 years based on the first set of tires =). Generally speaking, tires have gotten better over time. That's assuming your ride and storage characteristics stay the same.

The snow could be a pretty valid cause. Normally when a tire leaks, it's best to troubleshoot where the leak is (soapy water) and get it fixed. It's not just to stop the annoyance of airing the tire up all the time =).

[Pryme]

I'll be an old dude in 37 years, if I make it that long. The grandkids will have to tell me how the tires still do then ha

[ps2fixer]

That's the great thing about these machines, if taken care of, it's likely they will last another 30+ years =).

[Dirtcrasher]

In 1989 I bought a white standard cab Toyota 4 x 4 for 9600$. In one month I had rolled it over and destroyed both axles. I beat the hell out of it.

Then I bought 33" tires and a 3" lift and beat on it some more, destroying the standard transmission in the process. Toyota fixed it 2X.

Then I cranked the torsion bars and added rear blocks for 36" Dick Cepek Fun Country tires, it was INSANE!! It climbed anything I threw at it, Chevys, Fords, Dodge with 44" tires couldn't out climb the standard 4 cylinder Yota :lol: I got 17 years out of that 9600$ 4x4.

Then I bought a 94 with a V6 and extra cab for 4K, and I was older so I stopped ruining it. I did some work on it but overall it was bulletproof. It blew a headgasket at around 150K because I loved to redline it and all the local machine shops had closed; And I needed a vehicle ASAP!

So, I grabbed a 2003 with 48K miles on it for 13K about 10 years ago and I still drive it today. Great truck, has a lift and 33" BFG's but it struggles to pull my 21' Toy Hauler so I hope to find a Tundra this year...

[ps2fixer]

The "3.slow" people claim has a major head gasket problem. I know a guy that had a friend that bought a high miles 4runner, head gasket went out at 300k miles, he got rid of it around 700k miles. He was so impressed he also bought a 4runner, same year and color and the documentation said it also had the head gasket replaced at 300k miles, he scrapped it at 680k because the hatch was rusting out. I've bought around 8 toyota trucks with that engine, only one with a blown head gasket, rest were dead because of other reasons, one of the trucks has 512k miles, ecu was bad due to rust hole in wheel well and salt water from winter getting into the computer.

As for a tundra, the first gens had frame rot problems like the tacomas, not sure if the recall new frame replacement trucks are a solid pick or not if you want to go older. The newer ones (like 2006+ish?) shouldn't have the frame problems, but I don't look at new stuff often, too much plastic and electronics for me. The 4.7L does ok, but if you want good power, grab the 5.7L but say goodbye to the gas mileage. I'm hoping to swap a spare 1UZ 4.0L v8 into my T100, similar power to the 4.7L 2UZ, but it's more of a race spec engine (6 bolt main, all al block, high compression (90+ octane), extremely smooth running, etc. The 4.7L beats it on the torque spec a fair bit, but hp is similar.

Check your 2003 owner's manual, my 98 T100 says min octane is 87, but ideal is 90 or 91. Might get a little extra power out of it that you didn't know it had. Also, there is a TRD supercharger for the 3.4L, it might be worth it if your engine is still healthy. It's not much boost, but it increases the hp quite a lot over stock. I think they run somewhere around $2-3k used and are bolt on if I recall correctly. Research it out though, I know there was some years of the 3.4L that it didn't work on, like limitations of the ECU or something, could repin and swap ecus though if that's a problem.


Anyway, I have a thing for numbers and cost of living etc. In total you paid $26,600 for the vehicles (I suspect that doesn't count repairs, tires etc). From 1989-2020 that's 31 years, so under $1000 per year average which is quite good. Don't show that number to the people leasing their vehicles thinking they somehow are saving in the long run on repairs.

I'll run thought my numbers real quick to see where I stand, I buy and fix old junkers though. Including my 96 tacoma that had a bad frame after a year ($1000 loss overall) and including the $1500ish in parts for my LS400 I haven't installed yet to get the engine up to spec (no maintenance on it for something like 20 years before I got it). I'm sitting at a similar figure. I'd have to look up my title transfers but I started driving Toyota about 10 years ago, $6450 total including repairs (off the top of my head atleast, doesn't count parts vehicles but most I've made a profit selling parts off them), so my vehicle ownership is around $645/year average. Buying newer might be a pretty good option long term investment wise since I have quite a lot of time wrapped up in repairs, but I seem to find the worst machines to fix up lol. Really interesting numbers though.

If I don't count the trucks since they were work vehicles, not commute vehicles, my corolla and camry I have about $2800 into and the Camry was the first vehicle I was driving when I switched to Toyota, and the Corolla replace it when I had a brake line go out and found out ALL of the lines are original and rusted out, gas line went bad like a month later just moving the vehicle around the yard. Got 60k out of the Camry and 80k out of the corolla, both at 300k miles. Didn't count my lexus in the mix, I've had it about a year, $600 initial cost, about $350 for getting the rear wheel bearing done (paid my dad to do it, pain job and required a press). With the Lexus it's $3750. Really love the Lexus, miss the corolla's gas mileage though lol. Wish there was a high quality high mpg little car like the corolla but built to lexus standards (minus the extra unneeded features).

For fun here's some pics of it. The pic of it clean was right around the time I bought it. I live on a dirt road, and it's never been garage kept that I know of. Added photos of the rust, not bad at all for a 1990, big time for living it's whole life in Michigan. Clearly the rear passenger tire area was in some sort of wreck, you can see where the bondo was used. Also ignore the spare tire, I have to get a new set of tires for it soon, also the rear struts are getting weak (sagging pretty bad). Talking about suspention, I can't find the spec on it, but the rear wheels have a crazy amount of wheel travel for a car (atleast from that time era). My dad's high lift jack all the way up can only get the rear tires off the ground about an inch and the lift point isn't *that* high up in the body. I have a parts car that would be really neat to build some sort of dune buggy out of, if I ever do that, the rear suspension will be from the parts LS400.

FYI, under the car is effectively rust free, it's only around the wheel wells that you can see in the pic where there's rust, atleast all that I've been able to find. Both of my parts cars are exactly the same way with the exception of the rear ended one having some light surface rust starting where the metal was bent. Those cars have THICK paint, I'm talking like 3 times thicker than the paint job on any other car, maybe even thicker. Some day I'll have to measure the thickness some time of a flake, but it's roughly twice as thick as a fingernail (going from memory, fair chances I might remember it thicker than it was lol).

[Pryme]

The LS400 is an excellent car.

Good old toyota truck discussion. No toyota 4x4s get best in class mileage so when I decided to buy a full size I didn't even look at anything else and bought a Tundra. Been a great truck had it four years. Hauling car seats and family in the small trucks doesnt work well, when it was just me they were perfect though. The 5.7 is an animal. Tows like a dream, 6k pounds is unnoticeable on the freeway. No sway at all either. Real world its maybe 2mpg freeway less than others but it also is the only half ton with a 4.30 in it, makes a huge difference when towing but hits mileage a bit. Not having to visit the dealer all the time is worth 2mpg to me any day. And it doesnt use gimmicks to try and increase mileage like start stop or cylinder deactivation etc. All complex stuff. Basically the polar opposite of a big red trike haha

[ps2fixer]

Wow there's more Toyota people here than I thought. The big red trike comparison isn't fair, atleast electric start, aux power, racks, etc is all desired features by a sizable number of owners =). Also you can convert a big red to be the same setup as like a atc200s, but you need 200w worth of lights to not need the regulator and drop the battery/electric start option and remove a bunch of wiring related to the battery/charging/electric start systems.

Did you know there was an "emissions" computer even for the carb'ed 22r trucks, atleast for 1986? How many vehicles can you say has a computer tied to their carb'ed vehicles. Never researched exactly what it does, I don't recall an O2 sensor, so not sure what it was reading, and the output must have just been dash lights. I do have an 86 wiring diagram book, probably should check into that some day, might have been a California only thing.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5575566262&toolid=10001&campid=5338648541&customid=&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FFederal-Emission-Control-Module-Computer-fits-84-88-Toyota-Pickup-Truck-22R%2F174081544748

[Pryme]

Wow there's more Toyota people here than I thought. The big red trike comparison isn't fair, atleast electric start, aux power, racks, etc is all desired features by a sizable number of owners =). Also you can convert a big red to be the same setup as like a atc200s, but you need 200w worth of lights to not need the regulator and drop the battery/electric start option and remove a bunch of wiring related to the battery/charging/electric start systems.

Did you know there was an "emissions" computer even for the carb'ed 22r trucks, atleast for 1986? How many vehicles can you say has a computer tied to their carb'ed vehicles. Never researched exactly what it does, I don't recall an O2 sensor, so not sure what it was reading, and the output must have just been dash lights. I do have an 86 wiring diagram book, probably should check into that some day, might have been a California only thing.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5575566262&toolid=10001&campid=5338648541&customid=&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FFederal-Emission-Control-Module-Computer-fits-84-88-Toyota-Pickup-Truck-22R%2F174081544748

The 82 big red has no aux power. That came in 83.

The first gen Toyota trucks had no computer like that. 79-83

[ps2fixer]

FYI, the usa first gen was the 3rd gen for Japan =).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux

Around the late 70's and early 80's I see there was a lot of VIN's for the 3 wheelers for different areas of the US, seems like there were regulation updates around that time, might have effected the pickups around that time too. I have a wire diagram for the 83 pickups, but sadly it's not as detailed as the later books.

Alright, pulled out my 86 book and I found the Emission control computer. It was for Federal (all of usa I guess), and canadian markets. Oh next page has california spec, lot more sensors being read there including a o2 sensor. It read a fair few number of sensors, I'll list them below.


Water thermo switch
speed sensor
vacuum switch
igniter (I suspect for rpm signal)



Outputs (atleast in my mind)

fuel cut solenoid
vacuum switch, it's labeled for Evapo
choke heater
CMH relay (google says cmh = cold mix heater)



Humm checked the 83 EWD book (ideally the same back to 79 but I don't have those books), it also has the emission control computer.

It's job is a few things, according to the testing info


choke heater is on when the engine is running
cmh relay has power with ign switch on
cmh relay has ground when engine running and water temp > 131f
evap system activated with ign switch on, water temp > 131f, and speed is > 16mph
fuel cut off not activated with ign switch off, or engine above 2200rpm and vacuum switch open ( > 15.75 in. hg.) - I suspect this is an early decceleration fuel cut off, but it's carb'ed so there's still fuel in the float bowl, in newer vehicles it just disables the injectors




Overall, don't really like the name of it, but it seems like pretty much all good things. The fuel cutoff I'm not sure about. I don't think it works on my one 86 truck, acts like it's stuck open (it drains the float bowl when off). It also floods the engine at idle, but the fuel level in the carb is too high so probably can fix that with adjustment. Besides that, the 2wd truck gets 30-35mpg with over sized tires, 5 speed. The 4 speeds were ironically higher geared, atleast for the rear axle ratio + transmission highest gear ratio.

Also, the 83 California spec truck does show an o2 sensor. No mention of an EGR valve or anything like that, only extra thing I really see on the CA version is 2 temp sensors, and an idle control (EACV)

Encase you don't believe me... here's the 86

https://i.gyazo.com/32431a8af048812c390b2ae1f51fc34e.png

and here's the 83

https://i.gyazo.com/46fcd3a2a004bfc81362333c23489810.jpg