Br 250es or quad?

[zachpen]

Hey guys.
I’m new here and was wondering if you could give me some advice. I live in southern ontario. I now own a 1998 big bear 350 special edition. I was thinking about selling it and getting a big red 250. My first machine was a 83’ 200e and I want to get back into the trikes. I can really only afford one machine, and was wondering what to get.

My choices are a 300 to 450cc 4x4 quad, or a 250 big red? Not many of the big reds around, but I love em. Only thing is, in the winter, I want to be able to drive often, and with my buddies running around on bigger machines, I was wondering how good the 250es does in the snow. My 200e was terrible for power in anything over 4 inches. I frequently have a couple months of a good foot of snow.

At the same time, I want a machine that is good in the mud, and with some 27’s or something and a nice exhaust, possibly a snorkel, the big red would be so fun. Quads are a lot more moving parts in the front end.
What do you think I should do?
How powerful are the big reds in a good foot or more of powder?
How easy is it to get more power out of a big red without building the motor? I want the possibilities of running 28s or so?
My quad at the moment has 26’ mud lites, and is great in the snow, with a foot of powder it hits 50km or so.
The 200e hit like.... 15 or 20km.
Advice would be well appreciated.

[dustrunner]

My big red with 6 " of snow and decent tires is not the best choice for transportation in snow for me . kinda heavy ( me and the es ) although I love it and have 4 of them ...lol MY .02 $

[zachpen]

thanks dustrunner. im thinking of just keeping the big bear for the time being and maybe getting a decent 250 when i have the extra $

[ps2fixer]

4wd vs 2wd, generally speaking the 2wd will get through more stuff. I did out perform in the mud with my 250es with 25in outlaws vs some 300cc 4x4 with stock tires. The guy with the quad was trying to find a spot to get me suck but failed. Had water over the rear rack putting around the mud lol.

Same tires in the snow it did pretty good but bottomed out fairly easily once the snow is 9in or so deep. I'd say around 27in outlaws would be about perfect size, since they basically turn into 25in tires in the snow (1 1/8in tread). I had a 350 warrior with 28in outlaw tires and it was very hard to get the 2wd sports machine stuck. My parents house has a mud trail called "hell trail" because it's hell to get down, and that warrior went down it several times in it's life.

Below are the tires from the warrior on a project blaster.


Power wise.... the 250es is pretty much what you'd expect, a 250cc with drive line losses and quite a lot of weight. If it was made as a 350 it would feel more like a 450-500ish quad power wise, stock I'd say it feels around a 300-350cc for a quad since it is lighter than a quad.

3 wheeler vs 4 wheeler in the snow both 2wd, the 3 wheeler easily is better in most situations given similar tires etc, but when you throw a 4x4 in the mix, pretty sure the 4x4 will out perform the 3 wheeler unless there's a major tire advantage.

Assuming you don't really use your machine for work or need racks, I'd say try a 250sx out. It's the same thing as a 250es but smaller tires and the whole thing is something like 100lbs lighter. Both machines get effected quite a lot with bigger tires, you can throw the 250es engine in the 250sx and swap the rear diff's to get the 250es gearing on the 250sx machine. Beyond that is major mods like primary gear swapping and such. There's also an engine or two that can be swapped in or a 300cc top end swap.

The 250es/sx were made more for utility, so they don't exactly rev out super fast, but they are still a blast to ride. I think you would be better off saving up and getting one as a second machine, worst case you could always sell the quad if the 3 wheeler meets all your wants/needs.

FYI, I live in Mid Michigan, so I have somewhat similar weather to southern Canada

Also, you could always throw a ski on the front of the 250es/sx and have an atv style snowmobile, probably works better with tracks though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUCHg4CuSLw

Here's a 200 with tracks + ski and waist high or deeper snow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0RRgU4WHt4

[zachpen]

thanks for the info ps2fixer, ive been doing some research just rode my buddies 200es, love doing wheelies. Definitely have to start saving. Im a 250es kind of guy. sx isnt bad, but i just like the es. Besides, i like the gearing, and i would use the front rack as well as the rear a lot. Ive grounded my 350 bear pretty bad before, in rack deep water, and my 200e did good in the ruts. Only thing was the snow, it sucked, so sloow.

[zachpen]

you do anything to that warrior to get it to turn 28"? or it turned them stock?!!?

[ps2fixer]

Regeared the warrior, 11 front and I think my dad had a custom sprocket around 52 teeth rear. It was still way too high geared, it was wheelie or stall, no middle ground. Was a blast in the snow through, I "plowed" through a snow drift about 5-6ft deep, took a few attempts but it cleared the snow all the way down to the icy ground. I've NEVER had the warrior stuck, my dad has!

FYI, the pic of the outlaws is of a blaster, my dad did an engine swap in it with the goal of keeping it looking nearly stock, which meant the tall engine had to move down + it's a tight fit so he made the whole engine drop out kind of like a FWD car with a K frame. The engine is a 1973 TX500 twin Yamaha bike engine, pretty powerful for stock from what I've seen, 49hp, but I have to make a harness with no reference material and haven't really sat down and draw up the lengths etc that I'll need. It's a points engine so the harness shouldn't be too complicated, just has two coils. The 350 warrior was a 1999, we bought the machine new, I think the stock gearing was 12 or 13 front and 40 rear with 22in tires. He regeared it for 25in and that's how I grew up riding it, then he slapped the 28's on and had to regear again lol. That machine was put through hell and back with the only issue was the starter, which was an issue since day one. Had to replace rear axle bearings, swing arm bearings, front hub bearings, and the main harness. Main harness went bad because of sally ... something like this but much much older and I think it was a bit longer - http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads22/Heater1386520105.jpg

As for the 250es gearing vs 250sx, stock to stock, the gearing is very very close to being the same. The difference in tire size is made up in the gearing. I haven't ran the numbers myself but read in a few posts, I probably should validate the claim some day just for sanity sake. Maybe that's the next thing to compile on my site, final gear ratios like engine rpm vs rear axle rpm type of ratio and maybe another number to indicate travel distance per rev of the engine in highest gear.