83 185s Valve gap adjustment

[Bernard3rd]

Hello All,

I have a 1983 ATC 185s which is making some ticking sounds which I believe to be from the valves, and I had intended to do a valve gap adjustment the valve at the front of engine (which I presume is the exhaust valve) is accessible, but the back valve is tucked in too close to the frame to get to. Do I need to remove the motor to do this adjustment, or is there some easier method?

Thanks for any and all advice.

Regards,

Bernard

[350for350]

You can do this with the engine in the frame. It isn't easy, but the feeler gauge blades that you need to do this are thin enough to be flexible. Just be patient and you'll get the job done.

[floydechoes2000]

After checking the valves, check your tensioner too! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpoHh9EMhaU

[Bernard3rd]

The difficult part was getting a "screwdriver" which would work to adjust the top screw of the rear valve. I had no screwdriver which would work for that space as it is a very awkward position. I ended up using an interior door emergency key in a perpendicular orientation, and it actually worked fairly well. I think that the valves are properly adjusted, but the motor is still ticking. I wonder if it may be the timing which is off?

[Bernard3rd]

I also did adjust the timing chain tension. I am headed to Moab in a week and a half and wanted to have this sorted as it can't be a good thing to hear that ticking...

[Fullsizechevy9]

Could have possibly not been at all the way tdc i have done this before i went by the index marks on flywheel lined all that up set my valve lash and had a bad tick come to find out i wasmt at tdc i stuck a screwdriver in the sparkplug hole so i could feel where top dead center was and it was a little off from the index marks try that and see where your index marks are when you feel tdc if its a little off then you need to reset your valve lash like that

[ps2fixer]

The timing being off wouldn't cause a ticking, it just would run wrong or not at all.

Valves out of adjustment is a kind of "tick" noise, the timing chain being too stretched and slapping around is a more slap, almost like a metal to metal hitting together type of sound. They are pretty similar sounding, but maybe you can use these videos to tell the difference.

To me, this sounds like a timing chain slap, very loud and hitting hard.
https://youtu.be/ekm_mkz45RA?t=206

Valves majorly out of adjustment, guy describes it pretty well, sounds like a sewing machine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAcgWc4THsA

I was going to find a "normal" video, but the last one shows the after video too. Most Hondas sound similar and have a tiny bit of a tick in the top end, but nothing loud.

Based on what you've told us, it sounds like you might need a new timing chain. It's a bit involved, but not super bad to do yourself with basic tools.

Hopefully this helps, good luck.

[Fullsizechevy9]

When i reset my valve lash the tick got way worse come to find out my index marks werent really tdc maybe my timing chain is stretched enough for it to be a little off i had to go through the spark plug hole to find tdc and that fixed my problem

[Bernard3rd]

Here is a video of my machine prior to adjusting the valves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOPTvOmWgtc

The ticking is improved now, but not completely gone, and here is a video from after having adjusted the valves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um7VK64I0HY

My main concern is that I might do damage on my trip to Moab in a week in a half. I'll probably take a couple of 3 hr relatively easy to moderate trail rides.

Thanks for all of the help!

[ps2fixer]

When i reset my valve lash the tick got way worse come to find out my index marks werent really tdc maybe my timing chain is stretched enough for it to be a little off i had to go through the spark plug hole to find tdc and that fixed my problem

FYI, you don't need TDC on a single cylinder, you just need both valves 100% closed, so compression stroke works too =). Also there's two timing marks on the fly wheel, but since it's a 4 stroke you have to check if it's on the right cycle or not for TCD vs between exhaust and intake cycle.

In the two videos it sounds like a slight knock at the right rpm, guessing that's probably the timing chain though. Seems pretty loud and didn't change much with the valve adjustment.

I think you can take the "CDI" cover off and pull out the pulse generator and the next cover to see the cam gear and check if the chain is tight or not. Haven't really messed with that exact model of engine much though. I'd think you could put a socket on the cam bolt and move it back and forth to see the chain slack when the valves are closed (compression stroke). If all is good, there should be little to no play before the crank moves, if it's sloppy you'll want to change the timing chain. Some engines are an interference engine meaning the piston and valves can come in contact with each other, other engines are non-interference where it doesn't matter if the chain jumps timing. Guessing the engine probably is an interference engine though. You can get by for a while with a loose chain, but it's a grenade waiting to go off.

[Fullsizechevy9]

FYI, you don't need TDC on a single cylinder, you just need both valves 100% closed, so compression stroke works too =). Also there's two timing marks on the fly wheel, but since it's a 4 stroke you have to check if it's on the right cycle or not for TCD vs between exhaust and intake cycle.

In the two videos it sounds like a slight knock at the right rpm, guessing that's probably the timing chain though. Seems pretty loud and didn't change much with the valve adjustment.

I think you can take the "CDI" cover off and pull out the pulse generator and the next cover to see the cam gear and check if the chain is tight or not. Haven't really messed with that exact model of engine much though. I'd think you could put a socket on the cam bolt and move it back and forth to see the chain slack when the valves are closed (compression stroke). If all is good, there should be little to no play before the crank moves, if it's sloppy you'll want to change the timing chain. Some engines are an interference engine meaning the piston and valves can come in contact with each other, other engines are non-interference where it doesn't matter if the chain jumps timing. Guessing the engine probably is an interference engine though. You can get by for a while with a loose chain, but it's a grenade waiting to go off.I just went by what the manual said using the index marks and set the valve lash and it was off made the tick worse i checked it through spark plug hole found tdc and valves were way to loose reset them and all was good i thought it was the timing chain but took cdi off and checked it to make sure it was tight enough and that the tensioner was working which is was tight enough all i know is my piston wasnt tdc when the index marks were lined up and that threw me off when setting my valve lash lesson learned

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[ps2fixer]

Interesting, there's a T mark and F mark, the F mark is advanced and is early, the T mark should be TDC or 180 out. If not the fly wheel key might be sheered, missing and assembled with no key, or the timing chain not adjusted right. If it runs well (peppy and such) I'd leave it alone, but if it's sluggish at all, it's probably the mechanical timing being off a tooth.

[Fullsizechevy9]

Interesting, there's a T mark and F mark, the F mark is advanced and is early, the T mark should be TDC or 180 out. If not the fly wheel key might be sheered, missing and assumed with no key, of the timing chain not adjusted right. If it runs well (peppy and such) I'd leave it alone, but if it's sluggish at all, it's probably the mechanical timing being off a tooth.Key is fine i rebuilt the top end and went through all that to im thinking the timing chain is stretched enough just to make it a little off but the tensioner is working good runs good stronger than ever

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[Bernard3rd]

I noticed some knocking (for the first 4 seconds or so) upon starting, so I shot another video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXe8sKNeTQQ

Thanks for the comments so far.

[ps2fixer]

Video unavailable
This video is private.

[Bernard3rd]

Let's try again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXe8sKNeTQQ

Should work this time.

[ps2fixer]

Weird how cellphones pick up noises. After the initial start, it sounds about like normal. Probably one of those things that you pretty much have to be there to really tell what the noise is. The first fire up noise doesn't sound good, but it goes right away. My first thoughts was a wrist pin knock but it should have showed back up in the rev up and down.