350x regulator picture and location

[Cactus runner]

New to the site. Rode ATC's and everything growing up so when I had a chance to pick up a three wheeler I jumped. I bought a 1986 Honda 350x and the lights don't work. I checked the bulbs and they appear to be good. I have gone through the whole wiring harness and I don't find any breaks. I think the trike was put together to just sell and I may be missing the regulator. The manuel I downloaded has not been any help. I have a wiring diagram and it shows the two wires going to the regulator but I'm wondering if someone has a picture of what it looks like and where it is attached to the frame?:wondering

[ps2fixer]

As from the view point of sitting on the machine, its right under you butt on the left side under the fenders. I've seen the handle bar switches go bad, my first 350x had a bad brights/dim switch, brights only worked if you held in the switch. If the regulator is missing and everything else is working, your lights would work at idle, and as soon as you rev it up at all it blows all the bulbs. The regulator just sinks the excess voltage, so it's more of a protection style part in this application.

If you have a multi meter you can check a few things, but I suspect a good first step is to make sure your engine/stator has 3 connections (5 wires) hooked to the main harness. There's a bullet connection, a white 2 pin, and a red 2 pin. The white 2 pin connector is needed for the lights to work and for NOS engines it was common for the stator wires to be cut off (my replacement engine came with a stator from a NOS engine with the wires cut).

If you have that connector and it's hooked up etc, then the next spot I'd check is the handle bar controls, make sure the wire coming out of it is hooked to the main harness. A multi meter is really need to test it, so here's a quick list of tests for that part below.

With the left controls disconnected from the harness and your multi meter set in the beep setting when you touch the probes together, you should get a beep at the following wire connections and switch states:

Light switch on (the top one), dimmer switch doesn't effect this wire
white/yellow -> brown

Light switch on + dimmer switch on low/dims
white/yellow -> white

Light switch on + dimmer switch on low/dims
white/yellow -> blue

Just a wild guess, but I'd think the main lights on/off switch is bad which makes none of the lights work.

https://i.gyazo.com/e0f0f2392f03bd118ed517fd60632824.png

Here's the wire diagram for reference too.

https://i.gyazo.com/120c1a7d7ef05ef1ece1236e71bce164.png

Also here's a layout/pinout for the 350x harness.

http://atvmanual.com/honda/85-atc350x/83-1985-1986-atc350x-wire-harness-connector-layout-and-pinout


If you still need/want a photo of the regulator on a 350x, I can grab a photo for ya, but I think you should be able to find it pretty easily with the diagram above. You'll defo need the regulator to run lights if yours is missing, but the side effect will be blown bulbs instead of no lights unless the regulator is a dead short. I'd think that case would show it's self fairly quick though with the heat it'd generate.

Also, FYI, the lighting circuit and the ignition circuit are completely separate. It's possible to have a bad lighting coil in your stator as well. I don't think they fail too often but it's something I can grab the ohm specs for you to test your stator against with a multi meter.

[dirtwheels]

The regulator is on a bracket that hangs off the back of the air box. The 6mm bolt that goes that goes through the rear section of the frame to secure the air box also goes through the regulator bracket into a welded nut on the bottom of it.

Hope this helps.

[dirtwheels]

Another pic of the bracket and regulator from the internet.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-ATC350X-Rectifier-Voltage-Regulator-ATC-350X-X-1985/333296445779?hash=item4d9a042953:g:HIwAAOSwnfFdU4N 9

[Cactus runner]

New to the site. Rode ATC's and everything growing up so when I had a chance to pick up a three wheeler I jumped. I bought a 1986 Honda 350x and the lights don't work. I checked the bulbs and they appear to be good. I have gone through the whole wiring harness and I don't find any breaks. I think the trike was put together to just sell and I may be missing the regulator. The manuel I downloaded has not been any help. I have a wiring diagram and it shows the two wires going to the regulator but I'm wondering if someone has a picture of what it looks like and where it is attached to the frame?:wondering

Super helpful ps2fixe. My manual doesn't have that first diagram. I am certainly missing the regulator.

[ps2fixer]

Not sure where you got the manual from that you're using, but this one should be the same one I have.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

The first diagram is on page 214 for me which is the first page of the electrical system section.

For a replacement regulator, I'm not really sure if a good replacement besides used OEM, the alternator's spec is 200w single phase and the regulator doesn't convert to DC so it's just the two wire design. The 250r & 200x had similar regulators, but their alternator specs are a fair bit lower.

[Cactus runner]

Very helpful. I am missing that part. Hard to find! I found one on ebay with the brackets for $99.

[MrConcdid]

Does anyone know of a workable replacement for a missing 350x 2 wire voltage regulator?
Can I use a 4 wire and reconfigure it? or maybe a 2 wire off another bike or brand?
My 350x was missing the regulator.
Thanks
MrC.

[ATC King]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trail-Tech-Universal-ATV-Motorcycle-AC-Voltage-Regulator-7003-AC01/274401292626?epid=171191820&hash=item3fe3977152:g:lF0AAOSwfPFe66f6

Adjustable, if you want maximum light output over bulb life. Remember to scratch the sealer off the potentiometer before adjusting it and to put a dab of fingernail polish back on to seal it. That part isn't waterproof if bare.

There's a whole bunch of lesser AC voltage regulators for more $$.

You'll just have to fab up a simple mount for it.

The stock one looks very much like the stock one on a XL600R, bolt hole and all. I'm going to look at the part numbers...

[MrConcdid]

Thank you, ATCKing
I ordered it this morning.

Power of the Forum.
MrC.

[ps2fixer]

My only problem with the universal AC regulators is the fact they never give any real specs. The 350x puts out the highest wattage for a single phase system that I've seen so far, max 200w. At 12v that would be around 16.7 amps. Voltage regulators effective short out to bleed the voltage down with a byproduct of heat, so their cooling capacity is part of their max amps besides the raw components inside it. There's effectively no fins on it, so there isn't much surface area for cooling vs stock. If you use that one, be sure to put it where a lot of wind can hit it and hopefully it won't have a short life.

Based on the wire diagram I found, the XL600R is a 5 wire style regulator, aka it takes single phase ac and converts it to DC output. In theory should work fine, but might require a capacitor or small battery to keep the regulator stable. Also good news, with some digging I found some solid specs, the stator puts out 230w on the 83-84 XL600R so the regulator would have the capacity 100%.

Not any cheaper, but the 85 & 86 ATC250R voltage regulators look identical to the ATC350X ones, the 250r puts out a lot less wattage, but I'd guess it's the same design with similar max capacity.

I've poked around a bit to find a good aftermarket regulator, and I'm still on the hunt. I recently found a supplier that offers regulators that are direct OEM replacements for several Honda motorcycles, I just haven't dug through all of the models to see if any had no battery, had a high output stator, and was single phase like the 350x. Once I find something good, it should be solid for any no battery machine with a 2 wire stator.


Anyway, good luck with the process. If all of your bulbs blow, most likely it's the regulator that failed or isn't connected. I sell reasonably price light bulb kits on ebay since buying them one by one is generally quite expensive. Search for LK101 on ebay and my listing should be the top one.

EDIT: I looked at the service manual I found more, and it looks like the wire diagram I found was incorrect, or for a newer machine or something. The 83-84 regulator looks right to me, and the specs are in the range so should be a drop in replacement for the 350x and the 250r's as long as the wiring is made to match. Here's the pic of the regulator, sadly it looks like the wire diagram doesn't exist in this manual for some reason.

Here's the part number and interchange info. The machine I looked at has a separate voltage regulator and rectifier instead of the typical combined ones. Aka, the XL600R runs a battery so the capacitor/battery note above might be a requirement, but I think generally Honda OEM is designed well and works fine with out a battery.

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/31400-MG2-008?ref=1acf0ee94396b45fd9d22ba4f2c3a205120f202a

https://i.gyazo.com/a9e776e45cc7630df2f8f47e8a1440e4.png

[ATC King]

There's effectively no fins on it, so there isn't much surface area for cooling vs stock. If you use that one, be sure to put it where a lot of wind can hit it and hopefully it won't have a short life.
The stock one doesn't have much in the way of fins. It's mostly a block of aluminum. If that was a concern, just bolt it to a small heat sink, using a little thermal paste between the two. A three phase system has a chunk for a reg/rec and they certainly have to be out in the breeze.


Based on the wire diagram I found, the XL600R is a 5 wire style regulator, aka it takes single phase ac and converts it to DC output.


Ah, that is but one, of the two, regulators it has. You're looking at the DC side only with that one. The AC side is totally separate and only powers the headlight when the engine is running, requiring it's own AC regulator.

The XL600R was designed by a special kind of stupid when it came to the electrical system. It's a kickstart only bike, with one stator that powers three separate systems with different power requirements. An AC system for the CDI, another AC for the headlight, and a single phase system for the DC system to charge the battery that is required for the turn signals and horn to function properly, along with powering the tail and brake light when the engine isn't running (roadside safety). These three systems all share the same ground.

264703

Part #7 is the DC reg/rec, and #3 is the AC reg.

Add a flux capacitor to that, and you can go back in time and ride with Charlie Sheen.

http://www.thesmallengineshop.net/pics/the%20wraith/Charlie%20Sheen%20September%203%201965%201985%20Ho nda%20XL350R%20jpg.jpg

That's actually a XL350R, but, meh, same era. BTW, Fast and Furryus doesn't have squat on the car in that movie. The Ma-Sheen!

[ps2fixer]

Yea it looks like a bit of an odd system, if I had a wire diagram I could make more sense of it, but what you say sounds about right. I've seen a lot of scooters and such use a similar logic too. I think the regulation was something like the starting circuit has to be independent of the lighting system.

[ATC King]

The moped I own is supposed to have turn signals and a horn, but they're AC powered, without a battery. That is very uncommon in the US and I'm not even going to try to acquire the proper parts to make all the AC street legal stuff work.

The AC regulator stuff is there, but the AC horn and turn signals are missing. I've got a sealed beam headlight hooked up and run a rechargeable bicycle taillight.

It's a mess, like most other things I own. I've got to work around, convert, electrical systems to use modern lighting.

[ps2fixer]

An AC powered horn, that would be interesting to see the design of, I've only seen designs that use DC. Lights are simple, AC, DC, they don't care unless you go with like LED.

Also, FYI, most AC powered CDI's have their own dedicated AC circuit because the source voltage has to be much higher than typically used for lighting/charging. If I'm not mistakened, all of the Honda 3 wheelers are AC based CDI's and I'd count them effectively as an "analog" device. The newer design is the DC based ones which basically contains an AC CDI inside and an inverter, benefit being consistent voltages even at low rpm. The CDI working voltage is around 100-400v.

I wanted to see what I could dig up on this kind of stuff, a CT90 is probably one of the simplest motorcycles with lights I can think of that I think is road legal in the states. For it's system the stator has quite a lot of coils in it, but ultimately, the battery charging system is also the same system that runs the lights, horn, and blinkers. It is a 6v system and from 1977 for this diagram, so maybe that's older than the regulations your machine was built under. Also pretty interesting to see this wire diagram doesn't have a labeled part for a voltage regulator, and the rectifier shows the 4 diodes so I'd assume it doesn't have the voltage regulator built into it. Lights are always on, so maybe the max stator output matches the bulb sizes with a little extra room for the battery to charge. Either way, kind of interesting looking at this stuff since I rarely look at bike wire diagrams.

https://i.gyazo.com/fc011e10f6f548fe260e6156dfe489f8.jpg

On the 350x regulator, the stock one vs aftermarket is probably 2-3 times the surface area, it doesn't look like much but can make a fair effect. OEM is probably over built to last for decades.

Also just noticed an OEM regulator is on ebay for a fairly reasonable price, I've seen them selling for $100 in the past.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Honda-ATC350X-Voltage-Regulator-85-86-1986-Engine-Wire-Harness-350X-4-64/143793890597?hash=item217ac8a525:g:YfAAAOSwmfFfjGW g

The XL600 regulators are quite a lot cheaper, correct wiring, and specs should be right. I just grabbed one for $20 off ebay for a spare. I'll try it on my 350x if anyone needs more proof it works, that part is a great find for a cheaper alt.

[ATC King]

The XL600 regulators are quite a lot cheaper, correct wiring, and specs should be right. I just grabbed one for $20 off ebay for a spare. I'll try it on my 350x if anyone needs more proof it works, that part is a great find for a cheaper alt.

Good deal. I guess you bought a used one? The only new ones on Ebay are the reg/rec for the DC. There's just universal ones listed for the AC.

The OE one I took off was still good, I just wanted something adjustable. I've got a couple of those Yamaha generic ones laying around that I've use, like the one on my YTM200 right now.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Blaster-200-1988-2006-Voltage-Regulator/264731005927?hash=item3da33293e7:g:prgAAOSwFlhevb2 r

The case is aluminum. They are one wire, so the case has to be grounded.


On the AC horns and turn signals, that's mostly old European stuff, so if you see something in the US that has that, it was probably a personal or small quantity import. Not worth bothering with, kind of like 6V systems, just upgrade and be done.

Yes, most of the trikes use seperate systems for the ignition and headlight, so they have two systems, but many of them use separate coils in the stator. If the lighting portion poops out, you don't have to replace the whole stator, just that coil. That's my gripe with the XL600R and similar machines, any one of those going out requires the entire stator to be replaced.

[Shep1970]

Does anyone know of a workable replacement for a missing 350x 2 wire voltage regulator?
Can I use a 4 wire and reconfigure it? or maybe a 2 wire off another bike or brand?
My 350x was missing the regulator.
Thanks
MrC.
A quick 3 min search i found 3 oem off something else that the part# crosses too.
maybe i misunderstood what your looking for though?
264723 264724 264725 264726

shep

[MrConcdid]

Thanks shep,
I'm not sure how to take your post, but I will answer it the way it struck me,

I searched for more than 3 min, and on 4 different platforms (www.3wheelerworld.com, ebay, amazon and Honda Horders (FB))
None of those you listed say 350x,( I would have no idea if they would work properly or not) was I to just assume any Honda regulator with 2 wires would work?
None of those you listed populate when I search for the part number 31400-KG0-008 which is the part number for a 350x voltage regulator.
I searched for: 350x regulator, 350x Voltage regulator, 31400-KG0-008 and found nothing new/or any new replacement item, and none of the 3 you found came up either.
All of those you listed are used, as a general rule, I do not like to buy used electronics. (unless I really must)
I was looking for a new replacement or adaptable voltage regulator or possibly a work around to use one of the many 4 wires V.R. I already had laying around.

Thank you shep for looking for me, unless it was just to point out you "think" I didn't try looking first before asking the board.
Your searching skills are much better than mine.

MrC.

[ps2fixer]

I found a source for new regulators for the XL600R. I've been working with the dealer a bit on some questions and building up an order for him and found out he can get them. Checking prices and such but based on other things they should be quite affordable. Interesting it has the wrong terminals in the photo, but I can fix that. I'll grab a few and test them on my 350x too. If the 350x can't burn them up, then they will work for any 3 wheeler with a similar lighting system (single phase AC, no battery).

Here's a pic of it, far left one.
https://i.gyazo.com/31125ba0ff543ac53550e8920849b3df.png

I was looking up a different year for the regulator part number, didn't notice the 350x was listed along side some of the smaller bikes.

For the blaster voltage regulator, sadly the service manual doesn't give a max capacity for the stator. Most I could base it on is the bulb wattage + a little overhead which is around 100w. Also for testing, the spec is 13.5-14.1v, seems like the Honda ones generally spec a little higher for the max voltage. I've killed a few voltage regulators with my 350x testing aftermarket ones. In my case I was using regulator/rectifiers, the rectifier part still worked, just it would go to 50+ volts on the lighting system lol.

Also, yes I bought the stock/used XL600R regulator, the aftermarket/generic one can be had from China for tons cheaper I'm sure.



@MrC

Shep looked up the stock part number, found it fits the XL250/XL350 and searched for that machine. If it says 350x on it or any 3 wheeler model, the price generally is inflated a lot. Voltage regulators I wouldn't be scared of buying used, there's hardly any parts inside to go bad. The CDI's on the other hand have capacitors that don't age well. On top of being a pretty reliable part, if it doesn't function within spec, you can get a refund on ebay since they are listed as "used" which means a functioning part.

[dirtwheels]

The part 31400-KG0-008 was replaced with 31410-HA5-671. Honda released a service bulletin in July 1986 instructing dealers to replace the part as a warranty item. The replacement part is to help eliminate voltage surges which would blow headlight bulbs at high RPM's.

New ones turn up on ebay from time to time but they go for 150-200 if you find one, like this one in Europe...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Regulateurs-Regulateur-Honda-XL250R-BJ-87-XL600R-BJ-85-Neuf-A/254748459271?hash=item3b50310107:g:QLsAAOSwi4lahrG G

[dirtwheels]

The ones ps2fixer posted for the xl600r look promising and I would imagine they would be cheaper to get a hold of if his testing goes ok.

[ps2fixer]

That's interesting on the service bulletin. I just went out and checked my 350x voltage regulator... it's one of those generic square ones and it's been on there for quite a while.

I checked over the service manual, looks like the 350x spec is 13.5-14.5v, it states to just start the engine and measure and of course it has a ohms test. I'll check the numbers when I get mine and make sure it doesn't build up excess heat and such. Planning to put one of the aftermarket ones on since I have a generic one currently.

Anything else I should watch out for?

[ATC King]

It's just good some conversation and manufacturer info in this thread. Used electrical parts, are used electrical parts, and at some point, there needs to be updated, tested, information on viable new ones.

[ps2fixer]

Update from the supplier for the regulator specs.... "proprietary information and cannot be released". That doesn't seem logical to me, maybe it's more along the lines they are an exact reproduction of the OEM parts so they don't know what it's engineered to handle. I was going to buy a regulator/rectifier model too, but I'm going to hold off on it and stick with the voltage regulator I posted above.

I probably should make a thread about these so I'm not hijacking another thread. Just wanted to give an update on them. I'm grabbing 3-5 of them to test out and if they work out well, I'll sell the excess and order more. They seem reasonable to work with so I could probably get them to manufacture the terminals and wire length to my spec so I don't have to modify the part.