Stator Rewinding Questions, maybe a New Service I'll Offer.

[ps2fixer]

Been wanting to expand my business a bit, and stator keeps coming to mind. I looked up the rewinding process and yea I can do that stuff.

Anyway, onto the questions I have. The stator rewind wire is simple electric motor wire, not hard to source, however, the lead wires from the stator to the connectors that hook to the main harness I'm unsure of what grade of wire that is. I use GXL for my harnesses which is pretty high temp (125C) and oil resistant and such, but the OEM stuff has a fiberglass braid over it. I've found SF2 and SFF2 wire which seems similar, but I don't see where it's oil resistant and such. Any idea what grade of wire that is, or something suitable?

My other question is about the grommets, any place to get them new? If not, then this kind of forces me to jump into the plastic pour molding to make copies.


Besides that, I'm good on the winding process, directions, soldering, coating the finished product, crimping new connectors on the lead wires, etc.

I guess it's worth saying if you have junk stators, I'll take them. Preference is to know what they are from but not really super required once I build up a database of documentation of specs etc.

For now, I'm just looking to do straight OEM rewinding, but making higher output, or higher voltage should be a thing I can handle in time after I build up the experience.

[ps2fixer]

While I'm on subjects of stators here, are there any stators that are known to burn out, or hard to find? Clearly I should start with a model I have on hand, but I have ideas on how to make them new from scratch. Figure the first model I make should be something that's at least desirable. I keep thinking of a 12v ATC70 stator, but that kind of pushes me out of the OEM/stock setup lol.

Also would there be an interest in "race" stators? Basically a stator with only the exciter coil, and the rest of it as light as possible. Maybe if a known smaller sized flywheel fits the crank, I could make a smaller stator for it. I suspect I could up the raw amps and voltage of the exciter for true race machines (hottest spark possible), but I'd have to research what the upper limits would be and if it would even make a real difference, I'd assume so though.

[christph]

I've rewound stators for my own machines, Tecates and 250R. You really have to know what you are doing and it can be a process of trial and error. For example, the first time I rewound my Tecate stator I wound it the wrong direction (which changes the N-S polarity) and got massive kick back, so much that I actually broke the kick start lever. It is hard to determine how they are wound because the wire is so thin and it's encased in epoxy. Anyway, I finally got the technique down and wound a super coil that throws lightening bolts. You also have to worry about clearance issues. If you wind the coil too fat it can rub against the crank or the magnets. You also have to consider the capacity of the cdi. You don't want to burn it out with too much voltage. Finally, winding can be extremely tedious. I was shooting for 220 ohms in my Tecate stator and it took about 1 1/2 to wind using 34 gauge wire. Just offering a few thoughts before you take this on, especially if you're going to offer it as a service.

[newby200x]

Here was my experience on rewinding an 86 125M stator, as it was impossible to purchase a used one. Every time I had one tracked down, someone would sell the entire machine or the entire engine. It was a fun project though and our local electric motor repair shop had the wire on hand.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/174697-1986-Honda-ATC-125M-Stator-Rebuild

[ps2fixer]

Thanks for popping in. Yea the rewinding process is a bit mind numbing, but I don't think it will be too bad, I'm the kind of person that can keep my mind busy while doing something simple like winding a coil. I do it all the time when I'm tearing apart ignition switches to polish and lube the contacts.

I suspect clearance and such won't be a concern when sticking to the OEM winding which is why I want to get that experience first. Over winding I'd probably need a machine to test fit on or at least the stator cover. Maybe having a crank half, crank, and stator cover for desirable machines wouldn't hurt if I get into that lol.

I have super good eyes for up close work, 34 gauge wire is a tiny bit smaller than what I worked with before, I did mod chip installs using 30 gauge wire. The epoxy side of things though could be a pain to deal with. It seems like heat is always epoxy's weakness though, so I'd think baking it to heat it up and soften the epoxy might be enough to discover the winding pattern. There's only a limited number of ways it could be wound. Harder work that other people don't like to do is kind of my thing, I mean really, who likes working with electrical, and here I am making whole harnesses lol.

Anyway, I'm the tech head kind of person that would build a mysql database to store the stator details as I work with different models. Over time I'd target to buy basically every model of stator from all 3 wheeler models. Eventually I'd hit the TRX market too, assuming I enjoy the mind numbing work lol. Besides that, maybe I could hire some of my family to do some of it under my business, there's plenty of people that need work that I know, so time exchanged for money could be a thing, just hate dealing with the related taxes, probably not as bad as I'm making it out in my head though. I'm just tired of buying parts from misc locations and having no control over anything about them, so I want a product I make from the ground up like the wire harnesses.


@newby200x

Thanks for the stator rebuild thread, I'll give it a read. Probably should have searched here more for those kinds of posts, I only hit google and hit a few on other sites.

As for your situation, I think I could create the core for the stator, might not be a 100% duplicate from the original, but the spacing and number of points and bore and overall size should be basically spot on. Clearly, producing anything it's cheaper (per unit) to make several instead of just 1-2.




I'm kind of thinking the 350x might be my first machine to target. I've tested the exciter coil on my machine at 80v peak at kick start rpm, basically all newer honda's spec it to be 100v. Service manual specs the alternator at 200w, but there doesn't seem to be that much wire on the stator, seems like quite a lot of room for extra wire too. As for the upper limit, that's a bit of a tricky one, I'd have to research how to find the max voltage of a capacitor and see if I can apply that logic at all to the CDI design. Internally it's basically just a diode and maybe a current limiting resister (protection) before it hits the capacitor (between green and black/red wires on Honda CDI's). If it can be done safely, maybe if/when I build a CDI tester, I could add in a detection for max voltage. All of the write ups I could find about CDI's basically universally used a 400v max capacitor though. If there's a true race CDI out there with a higher voltage cap and such, I could probably rewind to take advantage of it's capabilities.

Ironically while I was looking up this stator stuff, it kind of dawned on me, I have an old skill saw that's an 8in industrial that needs the fields rewound. Not sure if I'd be able to find that old thing or not.

I'd think this new product shouldn't take too much room up, the stator blanks might because of so many sizes etc (in time), but I'll deal with that down the road. I have an idea on how to brand the stators too so no one can mistake mine with OEM, or mix it up with someone else's work. My intention is to be reasonable priced, but I have to keep in mind what a fair rate is too. Can't even really talk money at this point until I make a few and get the hang of it.

Talking about that, I have a 250ES stator, it was soldered to the main harness, need to fix that thing some time, or tear it apart for the core template. I have misc unknown stators from Gabriel too, should be interesting to see how similar a random Yamaha one is to a Honda etc. Pretty sure they are effectively all the same, just sizes etc different.


Talking about core templates, I kind of need a junk 350x stator now. I'd really hate to tear down a good one. Speak of the devil.... there's one on ebay that has cut wires (used condition).

[Gabriel]

Fixer, I will donate a Honda 200 stator or two should you need to do some experimenting. I have a 200S and a 200ES I could donate to your cause if it helps you. If they die in the process so be it. Gotta crack eggs to make omelettes.

[ps2fixer]

I should have spare 200es one. The 200S one would probably be handy though, I have I think an 82 atc185 engine with the stator in it, so it might be the same model as the 200s stator. Yep, assuming it's 82 or newer 185, it's the same as all the 200S ones. I do need them to take apart though to check winding direction, and see how the steel core is constructed. I think that style is pretty common to find on ebay, just they aren't wired up fully. The backing plate they mount on I don't think I'd be able to make.

Kind of funny having so many machines that I generally have parts from most models that I randomly need =). I don't regret buying the 15+ 3 wheelers and not caring what model, just price xD. Ironically I was going to PM you about what stators you had from the lot of parts you bought lol.

[Gabriel]

Lemme know if you want the 200S.

If I can ever find the parts I need, a future project I have in mind could really use this when you've mastered it. A higher output alternator would be awesome.

[ps2fixer]

Just to keep you grounded, there clearly is upper limits. The 200 style stators are stupid simple though compared to the 350x style. Probably a better place to start lol. From my understanding, larger wire with the same number of wraps gives the same voltage, but more amps, more winds = more voltage. So upping the wire size some would give more output, however there's physical limits too.

Also, is the 200s a dry stator, or can oil get in there? I know the 200x one has oil path ways in that side of the engine. I think the 350x does too. Anyway, based on OEM specs, probably could get about 70w peak out of the 200 series stators, maybe a tiny bit more if I push the clearances. I didn't pull that number out of my butt either, that's what the 200ES has for rated output. I have a lot to learn on how to estimate max output and such, but the winding process shouldn't be too hard to learn =). All reality, I wouldn't be surprised if the 200ES stator would work on other 200 series engines. They are all the same basic design, just the flywheel might be a different size, not sure.

I think you'll be my first customer though Gabriel, since the 200 series *should* be nice and simple. Grommets are a bit of a hickup for me, and the wire seems to be all over the place. Older ones seem to be fiberglass braid coated, but I looked at a 250es one, and it looks like just the same basic wire I use. Maybe it's silicone insulated since it is kind of soft feeling.

[BarnBoy]

Just to keep you grounded, there clearly is upper limits. The 200 style stators are stupid simple though compared to the 350x style. Probably a better place to start lol. From my understanding, larger wire with the same number of wraps gives the same voltage, but more amps, more winds = more voltage. So upping the wire size some would give more output, however there's physical limits too.

Also, is the 200s a dry stator, or can oil get in there? I know the 200x one has oil path ways in that side of the engine. I think the 350x does too. Anyway, based on OEM specs, probably could get about 70w peak out of the 200 series stators, maybe a tiny bit more if I push the clearances. I didn't pull that number out of my butt either, that's what the 200ES has for rated output. I have a lot to learn on how to estimate max output and such, but the winding process shouldn't be too hard to learn =). All reality, I wouldn't be surprised if the 200ES stator would work on other 200 series engines. They are all the same basic design, just the flywheel might be a different size, not sure.

I think you'll be my first customer though Gabriel, since the 200 series *should* be nice and simple. Grommets are a bit of a hickup for me, and the wire seems to be all over the place. Older ones seem to be fiberglass braid coated, but I looked at a 250es one, and it looks like just the same basic wire I use. Maybe it's silicone insulated since it is kind of soft feeling.

200S and all pull start 200's are dry stator behind flywheel. Electric start 200's (200M,E,ES are wet stators as they run in oil. The 200M, E, or ES stators are not compatible with any other pull start 200, but should swap between each other fine. I don't know about the 200X, but I think it would be the same as the pull start 200's.

[ps2fixer]

Thanks for the info, I'm pretty positive the 200x I had the swap the stator on had the bottom of the case open so oil got in the other cases, not submerged, just possible oil could get on the wires etc. I could be wrong though, I only did it once and ended up not a huge fan of the machine, nice riding, but needed more power, maybe I just rode 4 machines that were all worn out though (I'm spoiled with the 350x lol).

[Scootertrash]

Great idea! keep this thread updated....:beer

[ps2fixer]

Will do =)

[Gabriel]

I'm kind of thinking the 350x might be my first machine to target. .



Check your PM box. I think I found you one to vivesect.

[ps2fixer]

Pretty sure the stator is a 86-87 ATC200X stator, similar breed of 3 wheeler, but not a 350x lol. Still would be useful to have on hand though. If/when you send it, throw in the 200cc style stator too for the rewind/higher output project. I'll just be rewinding the same core and I can measure what size of wire and such yours has and a few around my yard to get an idea what size of wire I need to order.



Update for this project, doing some research I think I found the right type of wire. The new stuff just uses a cheaper style of the same wire I was looking at. The soft smooth wire must be silicone insulated, the fiberglass braid stuff is the same wire except it has the fiberglass braid to add mechanical protection (pinches, cuts etc). I think I'll make all lead wires from the fiberglass braid style due to it's better overall specs for the application. Only down side is that the stuff is pretty expensive, about $1/ft with shipping and such at low qty orders. My normal wire runs around $0.15-0.20/ft to compare, but I order 1000ft at a time.

All I should need now to rewrap existing stators is the actual coil wire, and figure out which epoxy to use to secure the coils well so they last.

[Maico]

I've got a couple of '86-'87 Tecate stators that you can have if you want to practice.

[ps2fixer]

Yea that would be awesome, not sure if there's a demand for Kawi stators, but I know the flywheels need rebuilding so I'd assume the stators can get damaged too when the magnets fall out of the flywheel (or whatever exactly happens with them). I'll shoot you a PM.

[ps2fixer]

Here's an interesting post of some stator rewind failures. Ironically, the poster didn't have any issues with the OEM units, seems like it would make more sense to run the OEM one instead of buying aftermarket due to the issues he's had.

http://www.genebitsystems.com/david/MotorcyclePrep/statorfailure.htm

I'm just reading about some DIY rewinds and such and what kind of failures they had to figure out the correct way to do it. Clearly copying OEM as close as possible seems to be ideal.

I think I've also picked out the grade of stator wire to use, just have to figure out what sizes to stock. 200C rated wire should be more than enough, the lead wire I've been looking at is rated between 150C-200C.

Sounds like the DIY people use epoxy like 3M makes, but OEM manufactures use a style of epoxy that cures with heat in an oven. I can buy/setup an outdoor oven for this, so if anyone knows the proper coating/sealing epoxy used for stators, it would be helpful for me. I also have to buy the fiber braid tubing too, doesn't seem like much is used, but I'm sure it's a very handy thing to have around to insulate between the coil wire and lead wire.

I'm also thinking on how to build/design a mold for the rubber grommets that I'll need. I'm kind of thinking of making them in 3D CAD and getting a hard plastic "master" made that I can sand and shape as needed to build the mold out of. Since I use tubing for my harnesses, maybe I can design it with that in mind to help seal the tubing to the grommet, but then again it would hold water if it was taken in deep mud/water. The grommet I envision will have small holes, one per wire to run though so it should be sealed quite well. Some of the OEM grommets are just a large hole with the group of wires though it with a "tail" of sorts to help keep stuff from getting in it, and probably provide strain relief.

Based on the link above, I'm almost thinking I should buy the related machine's stator cover too or case half which ever side the stator bolts to, so I can be sure none of the wire interfears with the mounting. I'd be hand winding it all, so I can control the wire pretty well point to point.

Here's another interesting read if you have an interest in this stuff. Basically details # of winds vs wire size, and wind patterns (single vs 3 phase, and delta vs Y). Knowing what I know about the 350x and the size of the regulator and such, I'm starting to think the 200w rating on it is way too high for what real world numbers would be. It's a single phase stator, wound with less wire than a 250es/sx that is 3 phase and has a regulator physically like 3 times larger. Based on the link, I should be able to take a short circuit amp reading and get an idea of peak output. Too bad it seems like the spreadsheet for that post is missing now, I see a bunch of html like tags in the post that are not processed right anymore :(.

https://advrider.com/f/threads/stators-demystified.189734/

Anyway, I'm sure it will be pretty slow progress for me to build 100% new stators, but rewinding existing stators I think I'm getting pretty close. Based on what I'm seeing costs wise, something like 90-95% of rewind costs are labor. Makes sense though, rewinding takes a lot of time, or if it's machine wound, that machine isn't cheap.

[RubberSalt]

There is a whole lot you need to take note of before starting this. On my endeavor of rewinding the Tecate stator.... A lot was learned. ChrisP broke his kick start lever and I walk with a limp.

Polarity is going to be the biggest factor out there. If it is wrong you can break engines or yourself. You need a way to check polarity before and after. Before you tear down a stator you need to document the polarity. After you build one you need to confirm polarity is correct. This can be done with a battery and a compass. You left hand and right hand coil rules will tell you how a coil is wound. News rules are associated with North and South magnetic poles.

All your pickup in trigger coils need to stay within oem spec. If you get two many windings the voltage raises too quickly and will cause the timing to be off.

There's a whole bunch of information I'm willing to share. There's even an write-up on the Tecate 3 stay here I did that covers a bunch of this and how to. There is also a specific electrical epoxy that can be used. Anything you use to coat wire needs to not cause a reaction over time. Electrical epoxy it's fairly inert. Before you epoxy you need to clean with alcohol.

You want to use 200c magnet wire, vintageconnections.com can provide connectors. Marine-grade wire is it going to be some of the best you can use. Almost all magnet wire is oil proof. Magnet wire itself is enamel coated.

[ps2fixer]

Yea, I have a potential source for enamel coated wire, 200C rated, but having other locations is good too. Connectors I order from cycleterminal.com, and when I can find the right part numbers I buy in bulk from mouser.com and other electrical supply sites. Buying Japanese branded terminals is a must, the Chinese ones are so thin and crimp like crap.

For the lead wire, I'm looking at using silicone insulated wire that has a fiberglass braid covering. It says high resistance to oil and if I remember right it's 200C rated. The "normal" wire I use is 125C rated GXL grade which uses Cross-linked Polyethylene (XLPE) insulation. Do you happen to have the specs for the marine wire? I don't see why marine wire would be high temp spec'ed though.

Polarity shouldn't be hard to figure out, the coating might be hard to see, but I'm sure figuring out which direction it's wound can't be that hard. Single phase it switches polarity every point from my understanding, 3 phase it stays the same direction but skips 2 points so every 3rd is the same coil. I didn't look to deep into the delta vs Y wiring, pretty sure it's just how the coils are hooked up though, I think the winding process is the same. Since it's AC, I wouldn't think it would make a huge difference if the whole thing was wired backwards, given the polarity pattern matches the stock config. The exciter is probably a different story though, since I'd assume the CDI uses the first peak of the wave to charge the capacitor. Having that coil wound for higher voltage should in theory give a hotter spark as long as it doesn't go above what the CDI can handle. Voltage isn't everything though.

For the heavier gauge wire (lighting coils), I suspect I can probably get an accurate wrap count to keep with OEM spec. The exciter coil on the other hand is a bit harder to measure. I'm not sure of a reliable way to keep the hair sized wire the right length besides just doing it and checking the ohms. I kind of have an idea on how to measure the length with a roller style distance measuring tool (not sure what they are called). Probably have to be a bit of trial and error, but the new wire should also give a ohms per foot spec to base the length needed on.

This reminds me, I have an 79-81 style ATC110 stator I got that's from an unknown machine. Same size physically as the 79 ATC110 stator I have, but manufactured slightly different. Guessing it's probably from a US90/ATC90, or a different year ATC110. I guess I'll make it my first target, since the wires are already pretty trashed and I see some small physical damage to the coils where the epoxy was knocked off.

[ps2fixer]

Well I started the impossible. Ohm tested the stator, and besides bad lead wires, the exciter (black wire) tested open circuit so starting with a junk stator anyway. Lighting coil tests as 0.4 ohms, same as my good atc110 stator. The epoxy Honda uses is some pretty strong stuff, but it seems every epoxy's weakness is heat. I work with soldering and such, so I have a solder rework station with a temp controlled hot air gun. Setting to about 250C seems to work well for the epoxy to get soft enough to pull the wire up. Pretty interesting only the outer layer had the epoxy on it, I thought the OEM stuff penetrated more. Anyway, lighting coil I counted 66 wraps twice (2 points used for lighting coil). Since I got the same number twice, I think I counted it right. One was clock wise and the other counter clockwise as I was guessing (I have notes which way each one was).

The exciter coil wire is a tiny bit smaller, but not much from the lighting coil in this stator. I got the first coil unwound using my hot air trick and counted 129 wraps (might have been 130 and I mis counted, not 100% sure). However, it seems I found where the wire is bad, going to the next coil it's broken off right at the next point. I get to fight that next to get it started again so I can count the wraps on at least one more point so I'm sure I'm accurate. Exciter coil is 4 points of the stator, so if the 130 number is correct, that's 520 wraps. So far it's kind of fun learning how these things are put together. Cleaning up a used stator core looks like it will be a pain though. Maybe the trick is once the wire is off, bake it in the oven at a high temp setting to burn the epoxy a little so it can flake off? Advice on that would be helpful. I'm not aware of anything that dissolves epoxy or makes it more elastic/soft for removal besides heat.

Since I have the wire sizes measured, I Probably should order the wire too. Lighting coil should be 18 gauge, and exciter 20 gauge based on my measurements (nearest gauge vs diameter measured).

Anyway, some photos for fun. Ignore the mess.

Also, if someone needs this style of stator, I don't have a machine that runs that can take it for testing, so if you don't mind the testing and possible failure (I'll rewind if it fails free) then I could sell this one for a reasonable "rebuilt" price. Shoot me a pm and we can figure out what reasonable actually is lol.

EDIT: Yep I miscounted the first time like I was thinking, 130 wraps for the next exciter coil point, so 520 total wraps for exciter, and 132 for lighting coil. The stator metal core is bare now =).

[RubberSalt]

Each stator is different, thats for sure. It's definitely good to document with photos and what not. Thats cool your able to pull it apart more gracefully. The tiny source coils used on Tecates, Tri motors, etc... Are 34-36 guage. talk about small.

As for baking, I'd be against it. The iron laminates for the stator have tiny dividers (plastic, lacquer, etc). The need to remain electrically isolated. The flat electrical steel is designed to control eddy currents. I've never been able to source electrical steel sheet or plates. A material that has a higher magnetic permeability will generate more power in the windings. There are a few things out there better than the electrical steel used in stator plates. Getting a hold of them is a pain. Think of it as a magnet sticking to sheet metal vs a block of iron.

This chart sheds light on the permeability of materials. 99.8% pure iron is 25% better. 99.95% pure iron annealed in hydrogen is 4000% better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_(electromagnetism)

[ps2fixer]

Yea, this is from a points engine, so probably a pretty big difference there for the exciter coil. I've worked with 30 gauge wire before, fairly strong stuff but I'm not sure if it would hold up even to the heat trick or not. Counting like 500 wraps all in one go would be a pain lol.

So the stator iron cores are not just basic steel? I figured I could CAD up the design and weld up my own with the top/bottom plates having an overlap that I bend at a 90 degree angle as a keeper. Reading a bit more from that wiki and related pages seems to really suggest standard steel would work, but create a lot of heat and be inefficient :(. Thanks for the heads up on that one.

What's the typical cleanup job for rewinding stators? I kind of want to remove all the old epoxy so I can coat it with all new. Degreasing it and such shouldn't be too hard, I can setup a tub to bath it and scrub if needed.

I found this company that specializes in prototypeing stators (low to med production volume). I'll have to come up with a CAD drawing of the stator and see how much they'd charge for a low production run of it. Based on the place that linked to the site, it said a single one can cost $100s, but it didn't say anything about higher quantities. Maybe 100 qty would drop the price to like $10-30 each core (wishful thinking right? lol)

http://www.protolam.com/

Defo interesting read, not sure if I'll be able to make 100% new stators or not now. Rewinding doesn't seem that bad though, just have to pay attention to details.

[christph]

Yea that would be awesome, not sure if there's a demand for Kawi stators, but I know the flywheels need rebuilding so I'd assume the stators can get damaged too when the magnets fall out of the flywheel (or whatever exactly happens with them). I'll shoot you a PM.

Actually, Tecate stators burn out all the time. If a Tecate isn't running that's often the reason. Mine burnt out so often--usually at maximum distance from my truck--that I started rewinding them myself. Since then I haven't had a problem. I used 34 gauge wire because I wanted to wind more loops and there's not much space. In fact, I couldn't get the number of loops I wanted even using 33 gauge. You're also correct about the flywheels. 30 year old glue tends to give away at 9000 rpm.

[ps2fixer]

Yea, I heard about the flywheel problems before, I had a "core buying list" type of post ages back, but it seems no one ever used it, at least I didn't have anyone contact me about cores.

Do you know the stock wind count for the tecates? I'm assuming taking the ohm reading and stock gauge size wire ohms per 1000ft spec would give you a good idea for total feet wound. I'm just wondering how much more winds you got with the smaller gauge wire (estimates).

Either case it seems like pretty easy work, I just don't think I can make rewound stators look like new too easily besides the fresh epoxy and new lead wires. I know appearance sells for the general population.

Have any photos of your rewound stators? A before and after photo would be awesome just to compare other's work with my own. I have very little reference to measure my "performance" against besides companies that do this type of work in bulk and has machines to do half or more of the work for them.


I've seen Essex branded coil wire seems to be commonly used for rewinding stators, I saw one site that does this service mention they use their brand as well. Not sure which spec to get though, a couple seem to meet the stator application needs. This one seems to be more overkill for specs, maybe the best suitable wire?

https://essexwire.com/sites/essexwire.com/files/2018-05/essex-wire-datasheet-amide-imide-en.pdf

This seems more of the typical used stuff

https://essexwire.com/sites/essexwire.com/files/2017-08/Essex-Wire-Datasheet-Ultrashield-Plus-EN.pdf

Here's lower temp stuff, 155C seems to be on the low end of what can be used though.

https://essexwire.com/sites/essexwire.com/files/2017-08/Essex-Wire-Datasheet-Soderon-FS-155-EN.pdf

The site that mentioned they use their wire mentioned it's enamel is double coated (heavy) and rated 200C, but I don't see anything with that same spec on their site.

Did some shopping around, ironically, best deal I can find for small qty (1-5lbs) is on ebay. I have 5lbs coming, 1lb of 20 gauge, and 4lb of 18 gauge. Getting closer to having everything I need =).

[christph]

Usually service manuals will list the acceptable ohm range for a good source coil, and I wind it towards the higher number. I wind my Tecate coils to 220 to 230 ohms, which is about 1000ft for 34 gauge wire. I wind by hand because it gives you more control and tighter coils. My technique is to measure out 10 ft., pulling the wire off the spoil, wind it back to the spool, repeat. I thread the wire through a stiff straw (actually the core of an ink pen) to wind; it's much faster than just using your fingers and offers more control. I also put a little weight (another straw) on the wire to keep tension on it. 10 ft. of thin gauge wire will turn into a knotted ball if you don't keep tension on it. I use the wire rated at 200C. Tecate coils get very hot and the epoxy breaking down is one of the reasons they fail. I provided a link to the company I get my wire from. They have a wide selection and fast shipping. For protecting the coil, I use red insulating varnish from MG chemicals. Since I put more loops in the coil, I had to wind it to an hourglass shape so it won't rub on the crank. Here are some pictures.

258683258684

https://www.remingtonindustries.com/

[ps2fixer]

Based on the page I found for the insulating varnish, it's rated for 180C, pretty much the heat range I've been targeting (200C+ ideally).

Ohm spec is probably a bit of a catch 22. Say the OEM wire is smaller, the ohms per foot is higher, so realistically if you use larger wire the ohm spec would be a little lower for the same distance. Winding 1000ft of that tiny wire is pretty impressive, must have taken what 2-3 hours to wind? I suspect a drill setup could be faster, but like you said, harder to control. The pen core and tension ideas sound like good ideas to me. I've done kind of similar respooling 1000ft wire spools (well the spool can hold something like 5-10k feet), and put it on 250ft spools to be easier to handle. It's really hard to make it even though, but I was using a spool holder I made and a drill.

Either case, looks like your work came out quite clean looking. Did you do much to prep the core, sand blasting or anything like that?

[christph]

The core is from burnt out stators. Cutting away the old epoxied wire is a real pain, especially without damaging the core. I use a Dremel tool with a diamond cutting wheel. After that, I wrap the core with cloth electrical tape so the hard edges don't wear through the wire and short it out. At the ends, I use thin strips of copper about 4mm wide (cut from a sheet) for connecting the magnet wire with the leads. That gives a more sturdy connection between gauges that are so different in size. Yes, it takes a long time to wind. Since I'm only doing my own it's not too bad. If I was offering it as a service I would definitely consider a more automated technique.

[ps2fixer]

I've seen the small wire gauge be wrapped around the larger size, then soldered pretty often. Sounds like copper tabs would work well too, but I'd think it would be a bit of a fight trying to solder 3 things together instead of 2, maybe it gives better strain relief though.

The Honda core I pulled apart has some sort of thick coating that was between the coil and the metal core. I see no damage to it, so in this case I'm thinking about leaving it alone. The other stator I have on hand that's from 79 ATC110 had junk lead wires, super stiff and dry rotted. After I rewind this unknown stator to it's orig spec as it came off, I'll have to decide if I want to rewrap this second one, or just replace the lead wires on it. It tests good on both wires.

Also the grommet that came from this first one is in pretty good shape, just stiff, once I build up more funds I'll have to give making a new grommet a shot since it's nice and small and pretty simple shape. Wish I could just find a place that sells grommets that are already the right shape and such for my needs lol.

[christph]

Using thin copper sheet also allows you to keep the stator thin and provide a solid mount for the leads. I bend them like an "L" so they stick out the ends (see picture), and that way they provide a solid mount for the leads. I wind the magnet wire around them to keep them secure.

[ps2fixer]

Quick update on this, I got some of the supplies in. I put the 350x and atc110 stators in the pic for a size reference. The wire in the back I'm 90% sure is the right stuff that a lot of the older machines came with. I'll have to setup a glass jar sometime and put some used engine oil in and let a stick of the wire bathe in it for like 6 months, and check if anything changes once a month or something. Most of the time the lead wires aren't bathed in oil, just a little gets on them when it's running. I guess the other option would be to rewind the 350x stator, and put it in my 350x and ride the snot out of it.

Don't mind the mess in the background, all the work in progress harnesses I'm working on lol.

I should have enough stator wire to do a lot of stators, at least for the ones with the larger wire size.