83 ATC 200e questions

[NlBurden]

Hi all, I am looking to ask a few questions about the atc i have purchased recently. Its in pretty good shape, i'm in the process of stripping it down a little bit to clear up some of the frame and give it a overall new coat of paint on the frame. I have two technical questions.
Firstly, I would like to replace the inner chain guard as its fairly rusty. I noticed that it looks like i need to take part of the left case cover off that houses the Hi Lo gear shifter. Can any of you provide me with some tips or some things to be aware of when removing this?
Also since this bike is chain driven, I am planning on replacing the front and rear sprocket plus the chain. The previous owner told me the rear sprocket was worn down a bit, so i'm going to replace it. Do most of you guys run Oring chains? or should i look at the standard style chain?
I always wanted a atc, and am happy with the purchase. It came with a truck full of spare parts!
-Burden

[NlBurden]

I managed to pop the chain off today. Still unsure about digging into the hi lo gear box to get access to the front sprocket. Any advice? Found a good deal on a o ring chain.

[HorseMcHorseman]

Have you downloaded the manual for it? Both my machines are shaft drive so I can’t offer any advice about your specific machine.
But the manual should be able to tell you everything about it, I have the manuals for both of mine I usually check them out and on the off chance they don’t cover something I come here

https://threewheelermanuals.com/honda
just scroll down to atc 200 repair manuals

I’ll download it later when I get home and see what it says

[NlBurden]

Have you downloaded the manual for it? Both my machines are shaft drive so I can’t offer any advice about your specific machine.
But the manual should be able to tell you everything about it, I have the manuals for both of mine I usually check them out and on the off chance they don’t cover something I come here

https://threewheelermanuals.com/honda
just scroll down to atc 200 repair manuals

I’ll download it later when I get home and see what it says

I appreciate the response, I was looking at the manual. I read through most of it the other day as im trying to get a good grasp of this atc. Based off the 200e repair manual it says i need to remove the left case cover and subtransmission ( hi low) in order to access the drive gear(page 26). I'd like to inspect this gear as i know the rear sprocket is worn. As well i'd like to remove the chain guard, however i don't see in the manual about mentioning the chain guard other then where to acess points to inspect the chain. On page 114, it goes into some details about removing the Sub transmission, however im still pretty uncomfortable doing that as it looks a little bit intimidating with the shifter fork and gears and such. I may be overthinking it, but I always am interested to do some research so I can try to prevent breaking things as I need to maintain budget of being a student.
Thanks,

Burden258541

[350for350]

If you're going to replace the rear sprocket, you might as well replace the front one too. Those and the chain all wear together. Of you mix new and used parts, the used one will make the new ones wear faster.

[Gabriel]

The 200E sub tranny is not bad. The ES is a bassturd lemme tell ya.

If you do decide to do it, pull the tank and drain the oil. Then you can pitch the whole machine up on it's side. It will make things easier.

[HorseMcHorseman]

I looked at the manual and it seems simple enough, I wouldn’t think it would all fall apart or anything when you take the cover off, but even if it did all you would have to do is put everything back in the same place it was, like it shows on page 114.
There’s also a nice internal drawing on page 10 showing how everything is arranged

[ps2fixer]

Sounds like you got things covered pretty good, one thing to add about putting the machine on it's side, when you pull the cover off, the oil in there can suck thrust washers off and the shafts, so using gravity and working slowly a lot of times you can keep things more together. I've only taken apart the 200ES sub trans for parting out which is the shaft drive version of the same base engine. Never had a 200E or 200M yet.

If your chain cover is in good shape, I'd say to clean up the chain path well while you're replacing everything, and be sure to reinstall it again after the new chain is in place. Yea it's a bit of a pain to lube the chain etc, but it keeps a ton of dust off the chain, so the chain should last so much longer, heck the one on your machine is likely the orig. My 99 350 warrior has been though something like 6 chains, but it's rode in dusty/sandy areas, and also muddy areas. I really love shaft drive because you just have to change oil once in a while and it's pretty much set and forget, kind of like a car/truck diff.

[NlBurden]

Sounds like you got things covered pretty good, one thing to add about putting the machine on it's side, when you pull the cover off, the oil in there can suck thrust washers off and the shafts, so using gravity and working slowly a lot of times you can keep things more together. I've only taken apart the 200ES sub trans for parting out which is the shaft drive version of the same base engine. Never had a 200E or 200M yet.

If your chain cover is in good shape, I'd say to clean up the chain path well while you're replacing everything, and be sure to reinstall it again after the new chain is in place. Yea it's a bit of a pain to lube the chain etc, but it keeps a ton of dust off the chain, so the chain should last so much longer, heck the one on your machine is likely the orig. My 99 350 warrior has been though something like 6 chains, but it's rode in dusty/sandy areas, and also muddy areas. I really love shaft drive because you just have to change oil once in a while and it's pretty much set and forget, kind of like a car/truck diff.
Yeah I heard the chain drives were a bit of a pain before I bought the bike, I bought it anyways because it was in decent shape for the price and it came with a truck load of spare parts. Got a new oring chain ordered. Now gonna try and track down the sprockets. If I can find a new chain guard would be nice. The chain guard on this bike is not horrible but starting to rust out on the rear

[ps2fixer]

Yea, all of the chain drives with the sub trans are a bit of a pain. I think most people replace the change with out touching the sprockets ever. If it needs them though, defo want to replace them as it kills a new chain pretty fast, I've done it before and couldn't figure out why the chain wasn't staying tight.

The 200ES also has reverse which is a nice perk. Besides that, they are very similar machines. I think the 200M I quite similar to the ES too but never owned one to really grasp exactly what's different.

Not to pitch my parts or anything, but just so you're aware, I make aftermarket ignition switches for your machine, it should have a neutral light, so that sub harness/socket I can make, and I probably stock the whole machine's bulbs as a set if any are blown out. I also make a lot of adapters for people, so you could like remove the stock AUX plug on the front rack and mount up a normal 12v aux like a car has for better access to the 12v to run like GP, Cell charger, etc. Max draw is 15 amps, but only like 20w extra power with the lights on, 70w with lights off, but over 150w can be pulled, it just will drain the battery over time even with your riding it.

[NlBurden]

Yea, all of the chain drives with the sub trans are a bit of a pain. I think most people replace the change with out touching the sprockets ever. If it needs them though, defo want to replace them as it kills a new chain pretty fast, I've done it before and couldn't figure out why the chain wasn't staying tight.

The 200ES also has reverse which is a nice perk. Besides that, they are very similar machines. I think the 200M I quite similar to the ES too but never owned one to really grasp exactly what's different.

Not to pitch my parts or anything, but just so you're aware, I make aftermarket ignition switches for your machine, it should have a neutral light, so that sub harness/socket I can make, and I probably stock the whole machine's bulbs as a set if any are blown out. I also make a lot of adapters for people, so you could like remove the stock AUX plug on the front rack and mount up a normal 12v aux like a car has for better access to the 12v to run like GP, Cell charger, etc. Max draw is 15 amps, but only like 20w extra power with the lights on, 70w with lights off, but over 150w can be pulled, it just will drain the battery over time even with your riding it.
Sounds interesting I’ll have a look at your links. Yeah I wouldn’t mind picking up a es eventually, maybe when I get back working again. For now I’m doing this e up a bit for fun. Gonna ride it all summer then I’ll probably strip it down to the frame over the fall and clean it up good. I like projects

[ps2fixer]

Sounds good, my most active area is my ebay account at https://www.ebay.com/sch/atcrider2012/m.html?_trksid=p3692

Not everything I do is listed there, out of stock on a fair bit of stuff and I make harnesses, just haven't tried the big red ones. The 82-83 harnesses I think I could make, just figured making a new one being fairly complex would be more expensive than most would be willing to spend (like $200-250 for ball park guessing). I'm fairly cheap when I'm buying parts, and if I saw something like that, I'd probably stick with used because of the price.

I really need to make a page to show case some of the projects I've done for people on my website(s) (http://atcfixer.com for basically my ebay parts, http://atvmanual.com for tech info, wire diagrams etc, work in progress, and my kind of dead project http://atvinterchange.com for interchange notes). I'm kind of thinking of making the atcfixer my store front, and all info/tech/interchange etc on the manual site.

Anyway, if the 200E is anything like the 200ES, it's still a ton of fun to ride, even though it's basically a utility machine. The ES was my first three wheeler I got and I dreamed of getting the 250es for the power/suspension. After I got some of them, then I found out about the 350x and was like o.O that's the machine for me, so I have two of them too lol. The ATC250SX is also a great machine, effectively a 250es with no racks and a bit lighter. I ride pretty hard and fast and abuse my work machines (ugliest ones I've picked up lol). Heck I'll dig up my 250es work horse/mudder do w\e with machine. Threw in a bonus pic of my old collection, under the cover is 3 250es big reds and a ton of parts etc, near left is a 250sx, and right is that 200es. Oh can't forget the 350x too, this was the first one I got, really trashed machine, I've replaced a bit on that machine since those photos, still have the bent forks and effectively no brakes though. That tire tread style is on like every 3 wheeler I buy and I hate them lol. Land in the photo is my mom & dad's place.

Not trying to flex I bought all these machines or anything like that, but if you have any questions about any of the Honda 3 wheelers, I've had nearly all models at some point. Most were in horrible shape, I went nuts buying every cheap 3 wheeler around for like 5 years lol, like that 350x was $280 "non running" aka out of gas. $400 engine later, $100 exhaust and some small parts like airbox lid, new front tire and such and it's a pretty nice rider now.

[NlBurden]

So basically the es has shaft and reverse? That’s the main difference? I seen a bunch of bikes for sale here locally. One guy has two running 200s but they don’t have reverse either. I’ve been confused with some bikes because people will have listed 200s and it will be shaft. Some people list 200s’ and they’ll be chain. Does the shaft models cause much trouble? I had a 92 300 Fourtrax and I know they’re famous for the rear ends blowing in them and not sealing properly, but not sure the similarities with the 3 wheelers. I’m only starting to get into three wheelers recently. The 250 es is hard to find around here in good shape, they’re all extremely overpriced or beat up badly and still pricey.

[ps2fixer]

You get the high prices with the "highest" models machines, 250r, 250es, and 350x. It took me about a year to find my first 350x, then like a month later I got a second in great shape for $800. Trashed riders were listed at the time for $1500.

The 200ES is the same basic core engine, just the output section goes into the high/low box, and the output is like further back and the 90 degree adapter to go to the drive shaft is in the middle of the engine. Besides that, no rear suspension, similar front suspension, dash has neutral and reverse lights, same charging system and basically the same harness minus the CDI connector changed (84-85 thing for most models). Shaft drive naturally is less efficient to put power out, so the ES would be heavier from the shaft drive setup, and a bit less power to the wheels, but maintenance wise, just keep the diff full. The ES diff is super huge, I've had like 5 of that year, and only 1 that was bad and the guy never replaced the bearings in it and was still riding it right up until he parked it under a pine tree for what looked like 20 years even though he said it was like 3 years. I have photos of that machine too on here lol.

The 250ES is a bit of a similar design to the 300 quads, I've heard about that issue with them too, I think the 250ES has the issue probably, but less people hard core mud them to really have it show up. My beater 250es has been in mud over the rear rack several times with no problems, never drained the rear axle tubes or anything like that. I just check the diff fluid once in a while. The SX has a similar design as the ES btw, I put an ES diff and axle in my cousin's SX.

A lot of people really love the 200x, which is more or less the same engine you have but higher output and some sport related changes (no hi low etc). All the ones I've been around seem to be a joke though. The 250SX is about the same speed, lot heavier since it's kind of built after a utility machine, but has the huge perk of shaft drive. I'm not sure what your riding style is, but the 250SX's around me were pretty common to see for $600-800 for a pretty nice machine when a 250es trashed was going for $1000. My 250sx was $500 and it's only problem is a cracked rear fender, small dent in the gas tank, and the carb needed to be clean. The SX is my 2nd fav machine after the 350x for it's raw power and amazing control/torque. The 250ES is 3rd and probably the 200ES 4th. I'm not a big 250r person for 2 strokes, yea they are fast but it's kind of all or nothing, not my style of riding all the time, and the 200x is like a toy vs the 350x from what I experienced across 4 different machines.

Anyway, back to the 200 series machines, there's a TON of them, 185, 185s, 200, 200E, 200ES, 200M, 200S, 200X and they go into motorcycles too like the XL200. That basic engine design has been in use for ages and ages, so really I'd half expect some parts from modern machines could be made to work on the other engines, or just cheat and do an engine swap if the mount locations are similar. All of the models above are chain drive except the ES. The E and M are chain drive with high and low. Pretty sure all of them have no reverse except the 200ES which the sub trans is where the reverse gear is located in. I don't know the history of the engine that well, but I suspect it was designed as a motorcycle engine orig and found it's way into the 3 wheelers. Not a bad engine design, seems to be reliable and built like a tank, just don't expect huge power unless you're modding things etc. The 250es/sx feels like 50% more power/torque even though on paper it's a lot less, like my 200es I'd drive around more or less floored to take off, while the 250es I only do that when I'm screwing around. The 350x you can't do that, you'll be flipped over laying on the ground if you held it floored lol (I use grippy tires, so grab and go).

Not to bash the 200 models or anything, but personally the only machines I buy for keeps are 250cc and up for 3 wheelers. They have enough power to drive hard and slide the rear end around corners via power in sand vs like my 200es where if it starts to tip, it doesn't have enough guts to spin the tires to go flat again, so you have to use the brakes. Probably sounds weird, but that's how I drive my 350x, if I don't lean enough for a corner, I just goose the gas a bit to break the back tires into a slide. Never wiped out from going around a corner on a 3 wheeler though. Only once screwing off more than I should have on my 250sx in the winter going about 30 (the 3 wheelers plant and stop now, no rolling after you like a quad, just remember to jump when it's beyond saving). All the other times I had problems was when I was still learning them on the 200es, ran up the back side of my leg a few times, hint, don't stick your leg out like a dirt bike rider would want to do, either lean or adjust to save it, or jump tuck and roll. Really depends on the situation though. I've been hurt more on quads (nothing major at all) than 3 wheelers, and I grew up on a 350 warrior since I was 12, started riding 3 wheelers around 15 or 16 and said forget the quad lol.

Learning the tipping point of a 3 wheeler is kind of a key thing if you want to push your machines for speed and such, riding around on two wheels and such should help with that if you're up for a challenge. I can throw my body weight and generally ride around a circle a time or two on 2 wheels pretty much at any time given enough space, just do it at low speeds and what you learn should translate into higher speeds just fine. I am one of the younger members here to, so I get if you're not looking to drift corners and stuff =).

I just noticed you're in Canada, I suspect you'd probably love a 250es or 250sx up there. The ES stock does have 25in tires, would help a bit in the snow, SX stock is 22in. Final gear ratio (engine rpm vs distance traveled) is the same on the two machines more or less. Putting ES parts in a SX makes it into a lower geared wheelie machine though.

Here's a vid, even has a 200es in it. Guy could use hitting higher gears more like when he tries a donut, shift in 2nd gear, rev it some and let the shifter down to get those tires cleared out lol. The 200ES guy rides more like me, but I know how to wheelie a 200es, you need 2nd or 3rd gear low range, you shift it into the gear (down, it's reverse logic, down to up shift) and let the shifter up to put power to the wheels with it rev'ed. The 250SX and wheelie on it's own by just leaning back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX5-lxi4i8Q

Short vid of someone actually doing something with a 250sx to kinda show the power

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fd6fpPcVkY

Here's a 350x to compare to =). Clearly I avoided perfectly rebuild or race machines, to give a real idea what the average one is like. This guy needs to work the carb over or learn to start the 350x though, mine starts in 2-3 kicks in winter normally. It's hard to describe a 350x, there's nothing else like one at all. The closest description I've seen and experienced is the 350x does exactly what you tell it. You want to wheelie, blip the throttle, want to flip over, hold it. It doesn't have reverse, and is a manual clutch like sports quads, but I grew up on a sports quad so wasn't a problem. Also yes they have plenty of power at idle to be in first gear and idle along just fine. Watching these vids makes me want to ride my 350x now lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY3YcSCbOCY&t=115s

Here's a 200es on cement, I was doing wheelies in loose sand though. Pretty similar, just he doesn't use the shifter trick. Doesn't seem to lean enough for the turns too, but cement riding on a 3 wheeler is way different than dirt/sand etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZtm0jJdyTU

All the 3 wheelers are a blast, I even rode around on a 1976 ATC90 for a while and an 1984 ATC70 that was like brand new. The 70 had pretty good get for being such a tiny machine, lean back just a tiny bit and it would wheelie pretty easy lol. My little sister had a blast on it till she turned a corner too fast and it flopped over in the sand. Freaked her out and she wouldn't ride it much after that. She was like 8, didn't get hurt or anything like that. She still loves riding atv's to this day, and still doesn't really get on 3 wheelers much.

[NlBurden]

Cool man, ill check those videos out this evening! I have been looking for a 250es for a long time now, usually its sold before i get the chance to look at a good one. They seem to be very popular around here. I'm not into the racey ones very much, but i do like the traditional utility style trikes. I got the oring chain on the way, but am having a hard time sourcing the front sprocket and rear sprocket around here. I was saddened to see that the local honda dealership no longer carries the sprockets and only have one outsource for getting the sprockets to me but it is pricey! Out of curiosity are the sprockets heat treated by any means? I'm learning lathes in some of my classes in college and could probably fabricate up that front sprocket, just not sure if it would last haha! I've looked at some sources from in the states to get the sprockets up to me, but i'm finding shipping costs are more then the parts themselves. Time to go poke back at the bike!

Also do you guys have a good way to tell if a sprocket is completely worn? I got a spare set of sprockets that came in my spare parts pile, one of them looks very newish but i can't tell if its worth throwing on for a while or not.

[ps2fixer]

Sprocket wear is fairly easy to see, the service manual should show it, but maybe grab and 350x or 250r one for a bit newer manual with good diagrams and such. Basically the points of the sprocket should be straight, and the tips shouldn't be sharp. If you've seen a new sprocket for the typical atv chain size, you've probably noticed how wide the flat is. I can't remember off hand if just when it's pointy is when it's considered worn out or what, but I kind of think that's the case.

Cheap/junk sprockets are likely mild steel or not treated, the quality ones seem to be hardened though. If you can do the heat treating your self (not super hard), you could heat a normal front sprocket for something and make it loose its heat treating and machine the pipe section of the sprocket and make the two go together. Might be a fun project for you to do. Not sure how hard the actual sprocket points are to machine. I suspect if you have access to the machines that do that kind of machining it should be pretty accurate.

I suspect you don't live near Michigan for an easy access into the states. I'm quite far from the Canadian boarder but could be an option if you wanted to make a vacation out of it or something.

There's a company called sprocket specialists, maybe they can get you the sprockets for a reasonable price. My dad bought their custom sprockets for a 350 warrior that we ran 28in mud tires on the back, so 1 tooth smaller front than what's available, and like a 52 tooth rear, biggest I think was 48, stock was like 13 and 40 lol. Anyway, we mud bogged and abused the snot out of the machine for years and years and they are holding up just like the OEM sprockets, we kept getting the aftermarket ones that the tips wanted to bend and the chain always came loose fast like it wasn't machined for the right chain size.

Here's their site: https://sprocketspecialists.com/

[NlBurden]

Oh cool man, learning a lot here already. That’s a good idea, I could definitely machine one with the help of my instructor. He likes projects so most likely he will help me. Also I’m far from the border, I’m basically as Far East as you can go. I know my bike calls for a 11/47 tooth set up. The 200 came with a brand new set of tires on it, they’re 25 inch bear claws. I was out poking at the bike for a while, painted some racks and stuff. I made a few observations, the chain is definitely on the worn out side as it has excessive sideways play in it. Also the rear sprocket isn’t sharp but in comparison to my other used sprockets it’s certainly worn down.
Also noticed that in order to remove the inner chain guard I got to pull the axle out of the bike. The “flanged” section of the axle close to where rear sprocket mounts wouldn’t be able to clear the guard. Bit bummed about that.
Will try the source you mentioned for the sprockets, looks like I’ll be waiting on them in the mail either way. In the mean time I’ll keep picking at the bike. At this rate I’ll probably have the whole frame painted in no time haha. I got good paint left over from my truck projects so I’m making sure it goes to good use!

[ps2fixer]

I thought you put the rear end on a jack stand, remove the left tire, pull the hub off and the back washer thing, and the axle is basically a straight shot to remove the little plate to remove the whole cover or something like that? Never had a 200E, but the 200S and a lot of 200 models had a similar design.

Below is the chain sprocket details from an atc90 manual, seems like all of them are effectively the same though. I swear I saw one that showed the different kinds of wear and good vs bad etc, must have been a Yamaha manual or something. In my thinking, as the chain wears at the sprocket, it's going to wear the front side of the teeth, so the contact surface from one tooth to the other shouldn't really change with some wear. The chain does stretch over time though, so the sprockets won't match a new chain, so best to replace as a set.

11 up front is pretty low count, I wonder why they didn't size it with a 12 and 51. The warrior smallest sprocket was 12, the custom one my dad had made was 11.

I'm pretty sure it's pretty normal for the chain to have the side to side wear, just means it has stretched a bit (wear per pin in the chain), the sprockets should have the same wear to match the chain though assuming the teeth of the sprocket are straight and still have the tips flat. I've rode machines before where the sprocket was so worn, it had tiny tips sticking up like 1/2 as high as the normal sprocket tooth, and the chain would actually skip some times under heavy take off. Kind of crazy how robust that system can be.

I suspect if you can make the front sprocket, you can make the rear one too. I'm not exactly a machinist, but I can grasp a lot of the concepts they use and the type of math used. I do a lot of programming, so I'm fairly sharp with math yet. You'll defo need the link spacing numbers to calculate the sprocket size for a given tooth count, and figure out how deep the mill cuts will be for the chain to ride on, and what size etc. Probably all the stuff your instructor would be better suited to help you with. If you do tackle the sprocket project, be sure to post your project results, or even like the steps you use. I'm sure a lot of people would love to see the process. As for hardening, I think just red/orange hot and oil dipped a couple times, then blue it should be about right, just make sure you have everything right at that point because isn't no fun drilling or tapping holes after that point. I'm not sure how the front sprocket has the power transferred to the sprocket part, I'm guessing probably splines on the shaft it rides on. That might be a bit hard to machine, but not really experienced in that area at all.

[HorseMcHorseman]

Are you by any chance anywhere near labrador? I’ll bet if there’s a good parts machine in the area with two good sprockets, the two older guys from crb would know where to find it. Last stop garage is my absolute favorite show, they fix and make things the way I would.

[NlBurden]

Are you by any chance anywhere near labrador? I’ll bet if there’s a good parts machine in the area with two good sprockets, the two older guys from crb would know where to find it. Last stop garage is my absolute favorite show, they fix and make things the way I would.
Yea pretty close to Labrador, Labrador is considered part of my province. I was looking to my spare parts again yesterday, I have one good rear sprocket but it’s a different style, the one on my bike is a sand which plate style, one of my spare sprockets has just the four mounting holes. Also noticed that my spare front sprocket looks pretty good. I’m gonna take it to shop too see about making one.
I’ll start prepping the frame today for some paint since I’m waiting on a chain and sprocket in the mail

[ps2fixer]

Hmmmm quick search came up with this listing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-ATC-200E-Big-Red-1982-1983-11-Tooth-Front-Sprocket-ATC200E/382808185141?epid=5007329308&hash=item5921255935:g:~vsAAOSwdvVcdCTu

$52.74 (USD I think it was in) total for it including shipping to Canada for just the front sprocket. The rear sprocket in the same package would probably make the costs stupid expensive, and chains are heavy too. Not trying to kill the project or anything lol. I see how it works now, with the right equipment I think it shouldn't be too hard to make one.

[NlBurden]

Hmmmm quick search came up with this listing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-ATC-200E-Big-Red-1982-1983-11-Tooth-Front-Sprocket-ATC200E/382808185141?epid=5007329308&hash=item5921255935:g:~vsAAOSwdvVcdCTu

$52.74 (USD I think it was in) total for it including shipping to Canada for just the front sprocket. The rear sprocket in the same package would probably make the costs stupid expensive, and chains are heavy too. Not trying to kill the project or anything lol. I see how it works now, with the right equipment I think it shouldn't be too hard to make one.
Yea exactly. For me it’s at least 250$ Canadian to buy it all lol. Aside from that if I bought that front sprocket id have to wait until mid July roughly to get it! Which isn’t good because I’ll be gone most of the summer. I did manage to source the rear sprocket for 60$ Canadian. With only about a week or two wait. So just gotta figure out the right plan for the front sprocket. I hope the sprockets last a while, I can’t see it being much trouble though. Mean I’ve owned motorcycles since I’ve been 15, and only had to replace one sprocket and chain

[ps2fixer]

I wished to ebay.ca instead of ebay.com and it says the total price shipped is $70.71 CAD. Doesn't seem too horrible. I guess it does add up fast though. Too bad you didn't know a couple people right on the boarder, one usa and one ca. Could ship to one, have them drive to the other, and that one ship to you domestically. Who knows if that's considered tax evasion or smuggling or whatever though, wait you don't have to pay import tax right? Just the shipping is expensive.


Sprockets last for ages if they are quality built. Like OEM ones last a really long time, just have to keep the chain tight and in spec, lubed up etc.

[NlBurden]

I wished to ebay.ca instead of ebay.com and it says the total price shipped is $70.71 CAD. Doesn't seem too horrible. I guess it does add up fast though. Too bad you didn't know a couple people right on the boarder, one usa and one ca. Could ship to one, have them drive to the other, and that one ship to you domestically. Who knows if that's considered tax evasion or smuggling or whatever though, wait you don't have to pay import tax right? Just the shipping is expensive.


Sprockets last for ages if they are quality built. Like OEM ones last a really long time, just have to keep the chain tight and in spec, lubed up etc.
Yeah pretty much most things get the extra import charges on top of the shipping costs. It does add up quick on a students salary haha! If I was working again now wouldn’t mind at all. I spotted a 86 250es for sale recently too. I’m trying my hardest not to buy it. I don’t mind spending the money either but the wait sucks. That front sprocket in the link would get here mid July. I am planning on running the 200 a few times before im gone on a work term all summer. I do like the 200’s though, mean I have 4 Rubbermaid containers full of parts. May as well stay with those models now.

[BarnBoy]

Yeah pretty much most things get the extra import charges on top of the shipping costs. It does add up quick on a students salary haha! If I was working again now wouldn’t mind at all. I spotted a 86 250es for sale recently too. I’m trying my hardest not to buy it. I don’t mind spending the money either but the wait sucks. That front sprocket in the link would get here mid July. I am planning on running the 200 a few times before im gone on a work term all summer. I do like the 200’s though, mean I have 4 Rubbermaid containers full of parts. May as well stay with those models now.

I'm sure you've probably done this, but I'd hop on Kijiji and see if you can't find a parts bike or 2. Should be pretty cheap. But I feel ya on the whole east coast deal. Used to live on Cape Breton and trikes are pretty scarce even there. And shipping is a real killer. Probably even more so on the rock though.

[NlBurden]

Found another 200 for sale haha. Only 400$ it’s a 200es might go check it out the weekend

[ps2fixer]

Lol, the 200es sovles the chain problems =). The 200cc models besides being the most models with the same basic engine, they also were the most sold machines. The 84 atc200es by far was the most common sold in the usa, something like 200k units, 350x total for usa sales was like 30-35k for both years combined. The 200E, 200S etc sold a lot too. I've had a ton of 250es's and a ton of 200es's, if you needed 200es parts, I'd likely have most of anything you'd ever need, just getting it to you isn't so easy lol.

[NlBurden]

Sounds good! I got the chain guard off yesterday. Hopefully I can find a decent replacement locally. This chain guard I basically need to replace as it’s rusting out. Further observations include seeing the front sprocket. Its worn out for sure. Teeth are worn down on the front side, almost curved. The previous owner told me it was after skipping the chain before on the rear sprocket. Additionally I ordered what the bike calls for in terms of a chain 520-90 link, how are these chains measured ? 520 pitch and 90 link, do you count each link or is it counted by the pins in the link? I counted the links on my old chain and it was 86?

[ps2fixer]

I'm not sure how the link count is exactly, I always just cut to size and add in a master link. Basically you grid off the two pins the stick up a little, vice it and punch it out, or get the correct chain tool. Just don't get it too hot to detemper.

The chain guard isn't a requirement, just if you can get one, I'm sure it really helps keep the dust and such out of the chain. I'm not sure how the 200E is, but some of the smaller models generally has a drive chain tentioner which is a nice feature.

You'll have to let us know how the 200es turns out lol. Shaft drive is a nice perk sometimes =).

[NlBurden]

I'm not sure how the link count is exactly, I always just cut to size and add in a master link. Basically you grid off the two pins the stick up a little, vice it and punch it out, or get the correct chain tool. Just don't get it too hot to detemper.

The chain guard isn't a requirement, just if you can get one, I'm sure it really helps keep the dust and such out of the chain. I'm not sure how the 200E is, but some of the smaller models generally has a drive chain tentioner which is a nice feature.

You'll have to let us know how the 200es turns out lol. Shaft drive is a nice perk sometimes =).
Okay, i'll run without the chain guard if i can't find one. I do have a full skid plate that bolts on the bike. Someone has made up a deatachable skid for it. Will do, inquired about that 250es model i've been eyeing for a while but the owner won't drop its price low enough. It its a 4 hour drive each way to get that one, which is expensive by the time you factor in fuel and stuff. Im awaiting more details on the 200es model. in the mean time i did paint the whole frame on the 200e model today. Got it with two part industrial paint which is a very durable paint. Looking clean so far. Now just awaiting that rear sprocket and front sprocket and were off to the woods!

[NlBurden]

Well guys, will have the front sprocket tomorrow. So anywho, i went at the bike. Drained the oil out of it. Im a lil stuck, before i go any further would like some input. So i took the Hi Lo gearbox off the bike, I can see that i still need to take the left side cover off. Do i need a holder or something weird to get the bolt of that holds the stator in place? I am assuming its normal thread. How do I get this side cover off to expose that front sprocket? I really don't like how these manuals fail to advise the procedure of changing the drive sprocket / front sprocket out. I can tell without holding the crank somehow I won't be able to unbolt it.
Any advice.

[ps2fixer]

Pretty sure that cover just pops off, I recall there was a hidden bolt holding it though

Here's an ebay listing to help spot any bolt holes you might have missed pulling a bolt from.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-Honda-ATC200E-Big-Red-Stator-31120-968-415-Crankcase-Cover-11341-958-680/183401670125?hash=item2ab39765ed:g:ascAAOSweoBa9JY 6:sc:USPSPriorityFlatRateBox!48628!US!-1&frcectupt=true

Once you're sure you have the bolts out, there's normally a couple flats on the case to tap off with a soft hammer like a raw hide hammer, rubber mallet etc. A steel hammer works too, but be mindful it can break the case if you hit too hard. Once it starts moving, it should slide off fairly easy. I'm guessing one of the lower bolts is hiding or covered in dirt/grease.

[NlBurden]

Pretty sure that cover just pops off, I recall there was a hidden bolt holding it though

Here's an ebay listing to help spot any bolt holes you might have missed pulling a bolt from.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-Honda-ATC200E-Big-Red-Stator-31120-968-415-Crankcase-Cover-11341-958-680/183401670125?hash=item2ab39765ed:g:ascAAOSweoBa9JY 6:sc:USPSPriorityFlatRateBox!48628!US!-1&frcectupt=true

Once you're sure you have the bolts out, there's normally a couple flats on the case to tap off with a soft hammer like a raw hide hammer, rubber mallet etc. A steel hammer works too, but be mindful it can break the case if you hit too hard. Once it starts moving, it should slide off fairly easy. I'm guessing one of the lower bolts is hiding or covered in dirt/grease.
Appreciate the link, will try at it again tomorrow. So the stator bolt doesn’t need to come off in order to remove the cover? Additionally the Manual mentioned removing the neutral switch which has a clip on it. Mine just has like a stud sticking out in the location of the “ neutral switch and no clip to remove.

[ps2fixer]

It's been a while since I took a 200 down that far. I think normally the gear indicator has an E clip on it, but it's a pretty tight press on so if someone was in it before, maybe they lost the E clip.

Your engine looks a little different from what I'm used to, maybe the 200E is a slightly different design. This is what I'm used to seeing in the image below. Baiscally take a screw driver to stop the catch from spinning and pull that bolt out, it slides right off and remove all the case bolts to pull the cover off and the neutral indicator.

https://i.gyazo.com/2d9b09bcfbc1a0b7aa6f5517a0c8cc1a.png

Looking at the 200E manual, I see the cage is a different design. Can you reinstall the cage and still get to the nut under it? If not, maybe you happen to have some junk spare bolts around to throw in the little hub thing to use a screw driver/prybar to stop the engine from spinning. If all else fails, pull the spark plug and push in a bunch of rope to lock the engine up so you can get the nut loose. Common trick for chain saws atleast. Might want to make sure you're on the compression stroke so the valves will be shut.

Just for reference, here's the diagram from the 200e service manual that matches up to what you have.

https://i.gyazo.com/9506291610b760af9724127f3b367d33.png


I remember working on an engine with a similar design, can't recall what model it was, but I remember it was a bit of a pain. That was before I really learned about the rope trick.

[NlBurden]

Well I got the cover off, and the one under came out easily. Took your advice and took two bolts and screwed them into the holes where the pull start cup bolts in. I then put a wrench on the bolts and let it bring up against the foot peg. And it worked out perfectly. I can see the front sprocket finally. It’s actually in better shape then I thought but I’ll be putting on the new one regardless at this point. Appreciate all the help highly. I’ll touch back when I have more trouble. Also since I couldn’t find much more information about the front sprocket changeout , I’ll do a write up with the pics and videos I took. After going through this process now it seems easy!

[ps2fixer]

Not a problem at all, glad you got it all figured out. Seems that's the nature of these 3 wheelers, at first it seems like a weird design, or overly complex, but doing the work once and it's a million times easier for the next time.

A write up/guide would be handy for other owners of similar machines I'm sure.

[NlBurden]

okay guys, got some questions for you and also a few pics for observation purposes.
firstly made some comparison of the old sprocket versus the new one. New one is well worth it of course!

Now, I have a question regarding the subtransmission, I reassembled everything pretty much exact same reverse order that it came apart. With the HI LO gearbox cover off, everything shifts perfectly and it goes into hi or lo easily. Gears all turn in the same manner as previous. When I assemble the cover and screw the selector handle back on, it will be harder to shift and the selector handle will back itself off and loosen up. I noticed in the end of the shaft sticking out , it looks like a hole where a pin would go. Also on the back of the handle it has a space where it looks like a pin would go, however i didnt see any pin upon disassembly. Pictures attached. Additionally on the topic of the subtransmission, I assume this has a port that fills up through the crankcases oil.


Now a simpler question, I started to put the recoil starter pulley back on, I decided to use rtv gasketmaker on it to keep it weather proof. When I put the recoil on, I can pull the pullcord out a bit, however it seems to be refusing to recoil back in. With the unit off the bike it works as it should. I seen the shaft sticking out from the recoil portion, I assume its the neutral switch, but i don't really know how it works.
Once I figure these things , the bike should be back together in no time.

[ps2fixer]

Recoil sounds simple, sneak the rope out and generally there's a notch in the part the rope goes around, stick it in that and give it an extra turn to make the spring have more tension on the rope. It should pull enough to make the handle stick up so junk doesn't get in the recoil.

I can't really offer much on the high/low lever, just referece the part diagrams.

I don't see any pins in this one.
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/1983/atc200e-a-big-red/left-spacer-cover-sub-trans-cover

Maybe item #11 in this one?
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/1983/atc200e-a-big-red/sub-trans

The neutral safety switches I'm only really fimilar with the 250es style, basically there's a nub that sticks out, when it's pressed in, it grounds the top contact. I suspect the 200e/200es operates similar, just different mounting style and such.

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/35600-KE8-003?ref=511b1d2eb67e392424be92bfb12c1145d17e0547

The old sprocket defo wasn't too great of shape, seems like it was a good time to replace it.

[NlBurden]

Recoil sounds simple, sneak the rope out and generally there's a notch in the part the rope goes around, stick it in that and give it an extra turn to make the spring have more tension on the rope. It should pull enough to make the handle stick up so junk doesn't get in the recoil.

I can't really offer much on the high/low lever, just referece the part diagrams.

I don't see any pins in this one.
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/1983/atc200e-a-big-red/left-spacer-cover-sub-trans-cover

Maybe item #11 in this one?
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/1983/atc200e-a-big-red/sub-trans

The neutral safety switches I'm only really fimilar with the 250es style, basically there's a nub that sticks out, when it's pressed in, it grounds the top contact. I suspect the 200e/200es operates similar, just different mounting style and such.

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/35600-KE8-003?ref=511b1d2eb67e392424be92bfb12c1145d17e0547

The old sprocket defo wasn't too great of shape, seems like it was a good time to replace it.
Appreciate it highly, based on those diagrams it looks like #11 should be there. I’d reckon the pin acts like a key way similar to on a pump. That lil pin would certainly help reduce the chance of that lever slipping. I know I assembled the hi lo right cause I took videos of the disassembly.
I’ll try with the recoil again as well.
The neutral switch is basically the nub style that you’re talking about. Might be a dumb question but what actuates the neutral switch?
I need to get the electric start working on the bike too after all this is taken care of. I’m wondering if the neutral switch has to do with the electric start not working. So far I know my battery is good, starter works and solenoid clicks when I test it off a battery. Which leaves me with that starter button on the handlebar

[Gabriel]

The shift drum has a dowel pin that engages the slot in the back of the shift lever. It'll never really work right without it. The selector lever bears against it when moving back and forth from high/low range.

Find it or a suitable replacement.
The one Fixer linked is what you need.


As far as sub-tranny lube, there are two oil passageways in the engine case cover. They have O-ring seals. You should have noticed (and replaced) them when removing it to install the sprocket.

The shaft you're seeing is the mechanical neutral indicator.
The electrical neutral switch is in the engine case, has a single lead wire and makes ground contact via a brass disk located on the shift drum inside the transmission.

[ps2fixer]

For the 200E there isn't a whole lot that would stop the electric start from working, the 200ES has the annoying inhibitor switch. It's easy to test the neutral switch with a multi meter, just test the wire connection point to ground. Should show connection when in neutral, no connection when in any other gear. That ground connection is what's used for the starter solenoid for it's ground connection, and between the two is the starter switch. You'd test the starter switch the same way, should be green/red and light green/red wires. The "hot" side of the solenoid should be hot as soon as you turn the ignition switch on. A test light or multi meter can work for that test, test from yellow/red at the starter relay to a good ground point (clean frame or battery neg). If your lights work, the starter solenoid *should* have power. If no lights work then check the wire and fuse near the battery, wire diagram says it's a 7 amp fuse.

I just scanned though the service manual and there's no "simplified" diagram for the starting system. Maybe I should make one as an easy reference on my atvmanual.com site.

[NlBurden]

Makes sense, so if need be I could just bypass the neutral switch to ensure it works. Also my front light works fine, however there’s no rear / taillight hooked up yet. I do have one in my spare parts, I just need to get the right light bulb connector for it. Basically I got a new tail light housing, and only two wires. So I need to track down the right connector that fits into the housing and bulb. Should be easy enough to solder.

[ps2fixer]

Tail light wires for Hondas is Green for ground, and Brown for tail light power. There's no brake light, so no 3rd wire.

[NlBurden]

Tail light wires for Hondas is Green for ground, and Brown for tail light power. There's no brake light, so no 3rd wire.
That should be easy to test for then! I have a tendency to over complicate things.. i guess it comes from school. If its just a taillight shouldnt be any trouble getting that back working. Will post some progress pics when i get it back together! I don't even have any pics before i disassembled it really other then semi stripped.

[ps2fixer]

Haha, yea, simple test, find the wire the has power when the lights are on, ground the other anywhere including the green wire =). It's a light bulb, they don't care about polarity and such unless it's LED, then it gets more complicated.

EDIT: Here's the simplified wire diagram for the electric start. I just made it black & white. Let me know if there's any mistakes on it, or if something could be represented better. You can click the image to view it full sized.

http://atvmanual.com/honda/81-atc200e/78-1982-1983-atc200e-big-red-simplified-electric-start-diagram

[NlBurden]

Appreciate the input again. Was at the bike earlier for a little while again. Filled the engine up with oil, made a little pin to fit in the hi lo lever slot, worked perfectly. Put the new battery in the bike. Started some basic troubleshooting, however I’ll review your wiring tomorrow and start really troubleshooting. Some observations, batteries good, solenoid tests to be fine. I’m having a issue on the control side of the circuit I think. I tested the momentary push button starter and there was no continuity down to the solenoid. I do know that the electric starter motor itself works. So I’m thinking there’s a break between either the push button start or maybe something to do with the neutral switch. I’d like to hook up a led neutral light so I can tell the bikes in neutral. On my 200E there’s no factory lights on the “dash”. Also I do have power to the tail light. However the previous owner has a red wire ran outside the factory harness to the headlight. He may have bypassed the original circuit. I’m hoping to have some fun on the trike before I’m gone all summer. But I’m thinking one of your harness’ would be a next upgrade for me.
Thanks

[ps2fixer]

I can't recall for sure which dash had just a neutral light, but I think it might have been the ATC125M 84-85. Most machines have a diode for the neutral/reverse lights, haven't quite figured out why, like the machines that have the safety systems tied into the CDI makes sense so the lights don't trip the safety system. In theory you should be able to tap into the yellow/red wire for power when ignition on, and the light green/red wire for the neutral switch and be good. Both connection points should be in the headlight bucket or near there. I could probably make an adapter to tie into it and the neutral bulb socket for the ATC125M style dash, I'll just have to figure out if the diode is needed or not.

Anyway, the wire diagram I made shows the parts are their most simplest form, just basic switches. You could test each part till you find an issue, or start at the solenoid and test for ground/power with all the switches closed (ignition switch on, in neutral, and starter button held in). I think it's somewhat common for the starter buttons to get dirty inside and have a hard time making a connection. Broken wires are getting more common due to the age of these machines. If I remember right, the starter button can be taken apart, it should only be a few parts including a spring.

I guess the easiest way to boil it down is, either it's one of the switches that failed, the contact in the solenoid is bad (clicks but no start), or a bad connection/broken wire somewhere between.

Btw, the service manual should have an actual test procedure for the solenoid. Generally it's test ohms between the two big lugs, no connection for normal state, and shorted connection when powered.


The red wire bypass for the headlight might be a sign. That tells me there was problems getting power to the lights, so the red wire near the battery and the fuse would be my start point. The solenoid system gets it's power from the same source, in fact it runs though the ignition switch as the same wire before it splits off at the hand bar controls. The ignition switch could be bad as well, generally they can be taken apart and cleaned if it's the OEM metal housing style. I mod Chinese switches as well if you find it bad. Not the greatest switch in the world, but I feel it's a happy medium of cost vs quality.

[NlBurden]

Well got the electric start figured out! It’s working now. The push button looks corroded internally so I’d rather replace that. However there were a few issues going on. The 7 amp fuse line was frayed and basically no connection so I’ll have to replace that. Proved the neutral switch does indeed work, it grounds as it should. Traced it back to the dark green and red wire that provides the ground for the solenoid. There was no continuity between the dark green / red wire down to the connector for the solenoid switch. I temporarily bypassed from the neutral switch down to the connector and it started to spin!
So on the current list to do
New push button start
Buy led light to indicate neutral
Get new 7 amp fuse holder.
Replace the dark green with red wire.

I’d like to get a new harness for this thing. Two bad wires in the harness running full length

[ps2fixer]

Not sure if you're wanting to keep an OEM look or not, but I'd say swap the dash out for one with the neutral light already. If you get lucky you could get one with the socket already, I have LED's that fit the sockets and to my eyes look the same as the stock light.

Here's the first one that I found, $17.50, swap your ignition switch over, and you'll need the socket off me or a used one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/84-85-Honda-ATC-125M-Dash/261456069631?hash=item3cdfff03ff:g:QaUAAOxyaTxTUId O

Here's the neutral light socket I make, I can throw in the LED light free if you want to try it out. 84 vs 85 is just wire color differences. This should match your stock harness colors. I can't think of any reason a diode would be needed, so this should work fine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-1984-ATC125M-ATC200M-Neutral-Dash-Light-Socket-Sub-Harness-WH200/202541057856?fits=Model%3AATC125M&hash=item2f28634740:g:sNIAAOSwEUdcGD6G

For the fuse holder, you'd either have to get a replacement battery cable with the fuse holder in good shape, or mod it with something from like the auto parts store or something like that. The 200es used a 10amp fused, so I'd think it would be pretty safe to oversize it if you can't find 7amp around.

Based on your description, the issue is between the starter button wire to the solenoid. I'd say do an ohms test on the harness to validate the actual wire is at fault. If the wires on the harness are stiff and/or cracking, that's a clear sign it's time to replace. I have some template harnesses that are so hard, I'm scared to touch them because the insulation just crumbles. Most of them were sold on ebay as a ready to use harness, some sellers are a joke with that stuff, but then again, it was cheaper to buy a not so good harness to base replacements on.

Talking about harnesses, I have an 82 harness, but not an 83. Maybe we can work out a deal where I discount off the new harness in exchange for keeping your old harness? The biggest thing I need to be good on it is the overall layout, generally missing wire ends here and there isn't a big deal.

Just to make sure you have an 83 harness, you should have a fuse holder that looks similar to this one, yea another product I make lol.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192053553499



I did a quick search for the cheapest harness that should work for a template, and found one with no missing connectors etc for pretty cheap, so I'll grab it. No obligations on having me make a harness or anything, this just completes my collection more, got all the 200 series big red harnesses now. Also snatched a $6 Yamaha harness too =). Only 3 more harnesses and I'll have all Honda 3 wheeler stock harnesses on hand.

[NlBurden]

I have a similar style fuse holder, it doesn’t have connector on it, someone just got a common lug on the end. The other dash would be nice that you listed.thats great that you have a template harness! I’m definitely planning on getting a new harness made up for this bike eventually. I haven’t drove it much yet, so I’m hoping to take it out a few times then work on it again. Just waiting for the rear sprocket then I can put everything back together in no time. I have a load of parts for this bike, I’ll have to dig through some of it, I bet there’s at least another harness or two there for templates as well.

As well I didn’t measure the resistance earlier when troubleshooting, I just used my multimeter with the audible continuity function, and it didn’t beep at all from behind the headlight dark green with red down to the same dark green with red at the solenoid switch.
Most of the harness wires seem moveable, however one or two wires are certainly shot. Another thing I’m not a fan of is behind the headlight, I’d like to organize the wires, it looks like a jumbled mess. With a new harness it would certainly bring some piece of mind for the ol trike. To me, I’d rather the old 200 over a new machine anyday.

[ps2fixer]

Yea the wires in the headlight bucket area always a mess lol, hard to really do much about that due to how you have to hook them up and such.

I didn't look at the wire diagrams a whole lot, but the 82 and 83 should be pretty similar layout. The extra fuse holder thing is only on the 83 and 84 200es. Heck the 200es harness might work. I just haven't compared the 3 years to know how much different they really are.

Anyway, the 3 harnesses I'm down to are a couple ATC250R years and the 87 ATC200X harness which is super close to the 86 harness, I have the notes for the differences

Good luck digging though the parts, hopefully you can find a harness to use to get some seat time on the machine =).

[NlBurden]

For sure, should have the back sprocket in another day or two! im waiting on the new muffler coming in the mail. Would it hurt the bike if i drove it a couple times without the muffler for the time being? The old muffler was rusted out.
Also I think im developing a keen interest in three wheelers already... Found a mint (collector shape) 200m for sale locally for 800$ Canadian, think i might pick it up... I really love the colors of the M with red and orange.

Burden

[Gabriel]

How close do your neighbors live? LOL!!

Only thing it might hurt if cold air rushes back in ona hot valve. Could bend it. Doubtful. If it's a concern, you could lay someting over the pipe soon as you shut it down. I wouldn't worry about it. The header pipe is plenty long to keep that from happening.

[ps2fixer]

Make sure you run the engine with at least the header pipe, it will be really loud and probably run quite lean but if the exhaust was already trashed, it might be tuned a bit for that situation. Putting around shouldn't hurt anything, really romping on it could meak it get too hot. Burn exhaust valves and such can happen when it's too lean or no head pipe. Throwing on the full length pipe would probably be best insurance.

I ran a 250es with just the header pipe for a short time with no issues. I ran the same engine with no head pipe just to hear the funny sound it makes. It's worth while doing that once with a honda... or just watch a video of it.

This basically is what the 250es sounded like with the head pipe, ran like crap just like the one in the video too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIhaIEgqJ0A

Not a honda, but the same sound. It ironically runs fairly good for being so lean, almost like he tuned it to run with no exhaust or something. Defo not the best to keep reving the snot out of the engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ6GYBDPhJE

[NlBurden]

Okay guys, my collection got slightly bigger today, but thats it for me. no more purchases now haha. Picked up this 200m, shes in great condition. I ended up getting it for 600 canadian after which i think is around 400 ish american. Everything works on it, has factory toolkits with it as well

[ps2fixer]

Sounds like a deal to me, nice pickup. According to google, 600CAD = 450ish USD. You can get the conversion by typing in "600 cad to usd" and it spits out a page for the exchange rate. Kind of crazy, I remember when I was a kit CAD and USD effectively were the same value, I didn't think they were so far apart now.

FYI, your photos ended up upside down lol.

[NlBurden]

For sure, and thanks ! im quite happy with it. Having two good trikes makes things nice, now i got one to drive until the other one is back together, then eventually ill have the second one to play around with or let family/friends drive(sensibly lol).I'm gonna change the oil in the new bike and drive it a few times then check out the engine specs and she how things look like cam tensioner and stuff. I read in the manual today that it should be adjusted every 60 days or so. So i'm gonna adopt the things to check / adjust as per the manual. I managed to borrow one of the those Clydes manuals for the atc 200. Very detailed, i like them.

Yes, big difference in dollar value for sure! I always remember that its like 1.3 or 1.34 american to canadian or about 30 odd percent more. Once upon a time I got paid in US dollars, it was nice !

[dewam]

I read in the manual today that it should be adjusted every 60 days or so.

Personally I have seen many wheelers go 6 years or so without a problem. I did have to deal with a jumped chain at five years, so I am not recommending six years.

Around this neck of the woods, with a tank and seat like that it would be considered a steal. Den

[NlBurden]

What kind of oil do you guys recommend running? I know the manual calls for 10w40, I am thinking running 5w30 instead in the trikes because the weather here is usually colder all year long. We only get about 1 month or so of actually “hot weather”. I think thinner viscosity would be best

[ps2fixer]

Below is from the service manual, a lighter oil is fine, according to the manual it's just best to avoid running it in 90F+ weather. Also it has the certs you need on the oil. You need SE or SF on the donut on the back of the oil jug. Peronsally I've had good luck with Rotella T 10W45, however I think the 10W30 and 5W30 doesn't have the right certs. The 10W45 is basically oil for diesel engines instead of 10W30 for cars. Thicker oil increases oil pressure and such, as long as there's still enough flow it's not a bad thing to run, but cold it might be a bit hard starting. Going too thin can be bad, big time if there's a lot of wear causing low oil pressure.

Generally, it's good to run synthetic oil for easier starting and less wear, but it also tends to leak past oil seals easier. It's kind of one of them things to try, and if it leaks either replace the seals, or switch to standard oil again. Also don't forget to clean out the metal screen at the bottom of the engine with the big cap. That's the "oil filter" for the system.

Anyway, there's probably a lot of opinions for which oil brand etc to use, I just say to follow the service manual and pick the oil you prefer with the right certs. Worst case, even junk oil today isn't half bad, just change it often, good oils generally last quite a long time. I run Mobile Advance Full Synthetic oil in my car/truck and go 15k miles between changes with an oil filter swap out about half way though. Oil at the end is just starting to get dark. Typical dino juice oil after 4-5k is normally as dark or darker. Color doesn't mean everything on oil, but it's what I generally go by. Charcoal black means it's some nasty stuff and probably has been way too long since the last change.

https://i.gyazo.com/f400c28b133b910852a76eeeaa3bca71.png


Here's a pic from today for my 1990 Lexus LS400's oil. Defo over due for an oil change. No clue what the last owner ran, but probably not synthetic. Bought it with 218k miles, currently at 227.5k, basically 10k miles. Looks like it's about 1/5qt low, not bad for 10k miles and it had a valve cover leak when I got it. I just tightened the bolts down a little on for now to slow the leak or maybe stop it.

https://i.gyazo.com/9b1c4ff2eab60567069e42eb314eb422.png

If you want to see a charcoal black example, I'm sure one of the parts vehicles I have around would be neglected enough to be a good example.

[NlBurden]

Got the rear sprocket today! Time to install the chain and start sticking the bike back together. The chain I got is a bit long, do I just make it as snug as it can go without aid of the chain tensioner and knock the pin out at that length? Only left to the build is the muffler that I’m still waiting on !

[ps2fixer]

I guess it kind of depends how loose it is. If you can take a full link out and it's still long enough, that would probably be the best route. FYI, by full link, that means you can bunch up the chain 2 points on the sprocket tighter than normally laying the chain on it. If you end up making it too short, half links are made, but never used them myself.

The chain should have something like 1in of slop moving it up and down, err like 2.2cm. You could probably go tighter since there's no suspension effecting the tightness of it. Also, the chain will stretch pretty fast at first until it breaks in. Don't forget to buy some chain lube for it.

[NlBurden]

I guess it kind of depends how loose it is. If you can take a full link out and it's still long enough, that would probably be the best route. FYI, by full link, that means you can bunch up the chain 2 points on the sprocket tighter than normally laying the chain on it. If you end up making it too short, half links are made, but never used them myself.

The chain should have something like 1in of slop moving it up and down, err like 2.2cm. You could probably go tighter since there's no suspension effecting the tightness of it. Also, the chain will stretch pretty fast at first until it breaks in. Don't forget to buy some chain lube for it.

Appreciate it! Yeah, It seems like 3 links or so will have to come off. I never knew about half links, learn something new everyday. Some nice seeing all new chain and sprockets for the bike. I can see a Huge difference in the play as opposed to the old chain. On the old chain, if i lay the chain on a sprocket there was a lot of play, on this chain it fits perfectly. Will post up some pics once the machine is back together! Also for chain lube, I'm thinking on trying synthetic gear oil. Watched a cool youtube video comparing different chain lubes and gear oil is still one of the top picks apparently. I noticed the manual suggests 80w90 as well

[ps2fixer]

Back when I rode a chain drive machine all the time, my dad has some sort of lube in a can specifically made for atv chains. It's big thing is that it sticks to the chain really well, kind of like bar oil for a chain saw. Speaking of that, straight 30 weight (or just car oil) used to be used for bar oil which is a big no no now, so maybe things changed, let me look up a modern sport quad service manual.

Dang I fail at knowing modern machines, I thought the TRX250X/EX would be a sport quad chain driven lol. I know the TRX450R is a chain driven one so I'll look it up there. Looks like basically the same thing with the additional mention of what I just said it seems like lol.

https://i.gyazo.com/800490ef1ee93635f811cc5094bc975b.png


Oh looks like there's a bit more info about what 1 link is defined as and such. Also shows that special tool I was talking about before.

https://i.gyazo.com/01efe50922f795178d131f6a7d5d698c.png

[NlBurden]

I put the chain on tonight. First time sizing a chain to fit a bike. So when I lined up the chain, I got it pretty short by cutting off the extra links. I was afraid to take one more link because I didn’t think I’d be able to line the chain back up with the master link. I think I may need a half master link for a true fit. When I assembled everything I had to turn the chain tensioner in almost all the way to get the tension I wanted. I’m aware that a new chain will stretch, so I’m thinking I may need to remove a link if that happens.
On a side note, I was getting ready to put the tail on ( and solder the wires) and now the tail light has no power again haha. It had power the other day! Just my luck. Probably another wire that’s on the way out.

[ps2fixer]

If it's just the tail light, it's the brown wire only, it's supplied with power at the left handle bar controls and it splits up to the head light too.

The chain will last a bit, chains can run somewhat loose with out too many problems, too loose tends to bend the sprocket teeth tips though. A trick for getting a chain together when it's pretty tight already is to put the two loose ends on the rear sprocket, then work the master link into it, assuming taking a link out isn't too tight. The machine should allow for a link spare room since it has a tensioner. Maybe once it stretches, it will be long enough where one link pulled out will be fine.

With the special chain tool, you can take apart chains, and also add links back in I'm pretty sure, at least the bicycle ones work that way.

[NlBurden]

Well I got the bike together today. Fixed the tail light, tidied up everything and got the fenders back on plus the back rack and stuff like that. Only one last problem to figure out now, that pullcord assembly is still messed up. It’s rebuilt with a new rope and does its job off the bike. When I bolt it onto the bike it gets caught. It’ll be very hard to pull it virtually unable to pull it. I’ll manage to be able slowly pull the cord out then it’s stuck and won’t recoil. When I take the bolts back out it recoils instantly. I noticed the 3 bolts that holds the basket/cup on have scoring marks as if it’s being rubbed against the recoils internals. I thought the recoil was as simple as bolting it back on haha! Not sure what my issue is

[ps2fixer]

Maybe post some images? Normally the recoils bolt right on and it's good to go. I never had to rebuild one, been lucky getting ones that work fine. Well I target 250cc+ 3 wheelers, so I guess they are all kick start, but the 200es's I've bought have been good recoils. Maybe the recoil is from a different 200 series engine or something. There's a website that shows the differences for all the recoils... found the page.

https://atcvin.webs.com/RecoilInfo/

[Gabriel]

Did you put the proper gasket on? The thickness of the gasket may be difference in working or not. Not sure as I've never tried one without it.

[NlBurden]

No, didn't put a gasket on it just gasket maker. Didn't realize the gasket would affect it that much. That could be the issue though for sure. So I took some pictures, im pretty stumped of whats going on. Few things im now skeptical about, do i need a gasket as mentioned? Also that neutral stub i don't have anything on it, does it require some type of cover? Here are some pictures of whats going on. Its a 200e, but it does have a 200m tank on it.

Just got some fuel in the bike and got it running by the electric start, and when i turned the key to the off position the bike wouldnt shut off.. ps2fixer whats the chances of you making up a ignition switch and a full harness for this bike? The 200m is gonna be my collector toy and the 200e will be my use it whenever type of bike. Also i think i put the gear shifter too low when i installed it, tried sticking it in gear and couldn't get her down to first gear. The 200e has all down for gears.

[ps2fixer]

Hmm looks like there might be some rubbing going on.

Not to bring more bad news, but the next cover in probably should have a gasket too. I think there's like 3 covers between the center case to the recoil, so that could add up to a fair distance. You could probably cheat and buy two recoil gaskets to stack to get the thickness, but probably better to get both/all that are missing. I've noticed the Japanese machines are made to a tight tolerance, like the 250ES starter gear cover which just holds the pins for the gears also has to have the gasket or it binds.

For the ignition switch, already made =), harness wise, I can make it, just not sure how long it would take me. I think it's a fairly complicated harness, so I'll have to see how much time it takes me to make one, but I'd expect it to be a bit more on the pricey side. Kind of why I never focused on the big red/250sx models even though I'm sure there's some out there that would love a new harness regardless of price.

Here's a link for the ignition switch, I also have them listed on ebay, but the 3ww shop supports the site with the seller fees.

http://shop.3wheelerworld.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=304_307_315&product_id=329

Anyway I personally don't like to just throw parts at things with out testing to be sure. You can test the ignition switch by checking for connection between the green & black/white wires. Off they should be shorted together, On should be no connection. Makes sense that it could be the problem if the internals are corroded or sometimes don't make connection. The kill switch on the left handle bar controls should work to kill the engine, if that doesn't work too, might be a bad wire. I've had to repair handle bar control wires before, can be a pain to find where it's at though. Worst case... I also mod newer Honda handle bar controls to work on your machine too. They are $75 since I'm paying Honda full price and such. If you have any interest in that too, let me know and I'll make the last one I have on hand for your machine, else I'll make it for an atc350x to restock my ebay listing.

[NlBurden]

Okay, if you come up with a price for a 200E harness let me know. I’d be interested in one. Also just drove the bike around the yard. The new sprockets are great. I didn’t realize how easy these things are to do wheelies on, brought the front wheel up unintentionally. Also neither turning the ignition off nor the engine killswitch is working at the moment. Maybe it’s because I ran a new ground wire for the push button start. I’ll have to go back through the wiring

[Gabriel]

Gaskets can ABSOLUTELY made the difference. When rebuilding a 200ES engine, I took the sub-trans apart and assembled it several times until I understood how it worked....It will lock up bigger than Ssht without the proper thickness gasket. Base gaskets "CHANGE" things when they aren't to spec.
I would certainly get the right gasket for it.

When you put on a pull rope gasket, I have found using a gasket cement or sealer on the pull rope housing side only works great. If/when you have to pull it, you don't have to deal with it, it stays put.

[ps2fixer]

Yep, 3 wheelers have a nice power to weight ratio. Front ends are very light compared to a quad so they are beastly wheelie machines.

If you're new to the whole 3 wheeler riding setup, make sure if you have motorcycle experience, to resist putting the foot out when tipping. With your machine, you might not have enough power to gun it to flatten the rear out in a tip, so you'll have to learn to really lean to keep from going over the point of no return. Also remember if you can, you can steer out of a tip given the room/trail space. A small adjustment sometimes is all you need. If you ride hard like me, about a few years of riding you'd really get a good hang of 3 wheelers and you'll be able to fly down the trails fast. I can generally keep up with my dad on his 680 Rincon in the woods, which is both faster accelerating machine, and also has a rider that knows how to push the limits with out going over them. My dad is nuts on a dirt bike, he's way more experienced on 2 wheels than I am for sure, he's pretty quick on the Rincon too, clearly he'd be faster on an actual sport quad than a sport utility.

Both kill switches not working is defo not right. The kill switch operation is to short the black/white wire to green wire (aka ground). The starter switch wires don't touch the direct grown wire at all, so that wouldn't have an effect. I just pulled up the service manual, the kill wire is solid black, newer machines use black/white lol. Anyway, either you have a bad wire/connect between the CDI to the splice point in the main harness, both switches are bad (unlikely), or you have some strange issue with your ground wire (green), that wire runs to just about everything..... Ignition Switch, Engine Kill switch, CDI, Regulator, Lights, Ignition Coil and Pickup/Pulse Generator Coil. I'd say to set your multi meter to beep when you touch the probes together, put one on the coil bolt where the green wire is bolted to it, and check each of the parts if they have connection or not. If you have a broken ground wire, then replacing the harness would probably be the best option for you. Same test for the Black kill wire, start at the CDI connector and test connection at the ignition switch and engine kill switch. Basically it's just a matter of following the circuit on the wire diagram to find where you don't have connection when you should.

FYI, inside the headlight housing there's a 3 way connection for the green wire. Probably worth while making sure everythign is plugged in (headlight, ignition switch, and engine kill switch). I suspect that is the likely spot the wire could break/get cut to cause your issues too.

[NlBurden]

They’re fun as hell for sure! I’m a ex sport biker. Got sick of tickets and speeding around so got into off-roading years ago. Not a big fan of quads and didn’t want a dirt bike really. Blend that in with nostalgia and I found trikes lol! And yes definitely something weird going on. I’ll start troubleshooting at some point tomorrow. But I’d love to get a new harness in this bike eventually. Feel free to send a pm if you need with how much it’ll be.ill probably strip the harness coming this fall. I like to take care of what I own generally and it runs great. Yea it was funny earlier, neither switch worked so I just had to pop the ignition cap off to shut it off. The headlight still functions when I turn the key. I probably misunderstood the ground when I bypassed the old broken wire. I’ll go back through the diagrams and go from there. I have somewhat of a technical background, however I try to learn everywhere I go

[ps2fixer]

Another interesting machine you might like is a Fat Cat, basically a motorcycle with atv tires.

https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/1987_honda_tr200_fatcat_1555087620ae1452bf903cb826 31987_honda_tr200_fatcat_155504343649a9127ea5be5ab eIMG_1291-1-940x705.jpg

[Jd110]

Well I got the bike together today. Fixed the tail light, tidied up everything and got the fenders back on plus the back rack and stuff like that. Only one last problem to figure out now, that pullcord assembly is still messed up. It’s rebuilt with a new rope and does its job off the bike. When I bolt it onto the bike it gets caught. It’ll be very hard to pull it virtually unable to pull it. I’ll manage to be able slowly pull the cord out then it’s stuck and won’t recoil. When I take the bolts back out it recoils instantly. I noticed the 3 bolts that holds the basket/cup on have scoring marks as if it’s being rubbed against the recoils internals. I thought the recoil was as simple as bolting it back on haha! Not sure what my issue is

Not sure what’s up with the binding- mine works fine without a gasket.
Might be good idea, when the recoil is taken off the machine, to periodically open it to clean, inspect and grease ratchets and ratchet springs. Reset the recoil starter spring and I’d do a new rope. The manual through this site has helped me, tremendously!
There should be a decompression lever on your machine to be used with the pull starter, also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jd110]

Looking back further in the thread, it appears you have the wrong pulley installed in the correct housing.
Possibly find out what model it’s for and try the appropriate basket.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NlBurden]

Looking back further in the thread, it appears you have the wrong pulley installed in the correct housing.
Possibly find out what model it’s for and try the appropriate basket.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Appreciate the reply! Been busy with life past few weeks. I figured out what’s going on with the pullcord. It may have the wrong pullcord on the bike. When I bought the bike it came with a load of spare parts, wouldn’t surprise me if the previous owner just used parts off a different model. I needed to shim the pullcord Out with a thick gasket. Works good now!
Had the bike out for my first real spin on it. Was not a very good one.
I either had a electric issue or something going on still.

First off the bike ignition switch nor killswitch is working still.So I couldn’t shut the bike off.
I got a new ignition switch ordered, but still don’t know why the killswitch isn’t working either.
I took the bike up some local trails, it was dying on me. It kept trying to die and was losing power. If she’s warmed up and sitting on idle it sounds okay, but when I drive it , it dies down and shuts off. When I restart the bike after cranking for a while, sometimes it won’t start unless I pull the throttle all the way in. I tried going up a hill and he’ll I had to keep it in first gear and even that was pushing it. I’m thinking it’s a spark / ignition issue or could be a carb/ fuel issue

[ps2fixer]

Sounds to me like a carb issue, i'd guess lean and the carb needs cleaned out. The 200E isn't the most powerful machine in the world, but it can handle hills fine, not normal for first gear only.

Does it make kind of a bog noise when you give it more throttle? Any popping in the intake/exhaust? Also, pull out the spark plug and take a photo of it. Normal should be a light brown color, lean is white powder, and rich is black soot.

The ignition switch not working and kill switch suggests to me there's a bad/cut wire after it combines. Somewhere in the main harness between the kill switches and the CDI box. If you can't find any area's the wiring has been modified, cut, or touched, check over the CDI connector wires, maybe one of them is broken. If I recall correctly, the kill wire is solid black. When you kill the engine, it shorts that wire to green (ground) to kill the engine, the action of killing the engine is performed at the CDI. It's quite unlikely both kill switch and ignition switch failed at the same time, but you can test them with a multi meter in ohms/beep mode. Between the Black and green wire should have connection when switched off, and when switched on, the other two wires should be shorted (I think the colors are Red and Yellow/Red for that machine, didn't look it up).

Another thing to mention are the spark advancer springs under the "CDI" cover on the engine head. They can get rusty or break with age/use, so if they are damaged, grab a new pair off the 3ww shop or ebay, I can link you if you want. These wouldn't make the machine run as bad as you describe, but it would make it lower hp and slow to rev.

These machines are not exaclty perfect condition, your machine should run atleast as good as these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5Dq0-8-0dA

[NlBurden]

What exactly are the spark advancer springs ? I never noticed them before. The bike is running badly. When I give it throttle, it would pop and try to die. If i kept the ride engine speed and rpm it would be fine. It was letting out some backfires and sounded like the ignition was not hitting right. I have a brand new carb in the box that I bought a while back, are they typically set up good to go ? Like if I bolt the new carb on it should be fine ? I’ll take a video of the bike tomorrow. I used to have a old Skidoo 2 cylinder, when that thing popped or spoiled a plug it would run like dirt. I plan on replacing the ignition coil, switches, carb,
Eventually harness!
So In a note: bikes losing power when giving it throttle( while driving / under load), back firing and popping a bit. Frequently stalling if not touching the throttle, and being a bit troublesome to start. I had one plug foul with black fuel earlier, replaced it and fouled again.

[ps2fixer]

Interesting, to me the back firing and such suggests lean condition. Maybe the pilot jet is way too big, and the main jet is way too small making idle super rich, and mid to high rpm too lean. The carb that's on it, is it the stock carb? The stock carb is marked PD55A for 82-83 ATC200E, stock main jet is #95 and there isn't a spec for pilot so maybe non-removable. It says Pilot screw should be at 1 1/8 turns out, and the main jet is on 2nd slot.

Jumping over to partzilla to look up part numbers and based on their site, the pilot jet is #38

Main - https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/99101-393-0950?ref=43a5e62fb6df25a82324363656efbb72df8728e3
Pilot/Slow - https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/99103-440-0380?ref=43a5e62fb6df25a82324363656efbb72df8728e3

If your carb isn't stock, starting with those jets should get you in the ball park. Practically everything effects the jetting, including if the exhaust is rusted out, your elevation, etc. The stock jetting ideally should be a tiny bit on the rich side to account for worst case scenario, but that's not always the case.

Since you mention a new carb, I'm taking a wild guess it's a china carb, people have hit or miss luck with them for being good/junk. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for. I've heard people say the China carbs came way too rich, and I've also read t hey came way too lean. The one my uncle bought about 6 years ago for a 200S worked out of the box pretty well and just needed minor adjustments to dial in.

For the spark advancer, there's a pickup coil that Honda called a pulse generator. That device tells the CDI when to fire the engine. The advancer part of it has the chunk of steel in it that the pulse generator senses, and it has weights that fly open as the rpm increases, which advances the timing. If the springs are weak or missing, ignition timing will advance too fast, if it's rusted/stuck it likely will be set at the base timing and you won't get any advancement out of it.

Here's a diagram of it. Part #3 has the springs, the springs were not sold separately on that model, but based on the same idea/logic/engine design, a more modern version of the engine has them sold separately.

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/1983/atc200e-a-big-red/pulse-generator

Here's kind of an unrelated video, but he shows how the spark advancer should move. Also wouldn't hurt to check your ignition timing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHeIXalJ9N8

For the most part, the ignition coils generally don't fail, but it's always possible. Weak spark, incorrect pulse generator gap, ignition timing, carb tuning can all make kind of similar issues, kind of have to run though them one by one to fix the issue. My wild guess would be carb tuning, then ignition timing. The engine doesn't have a heavy tick noise when running does it? The timing chain could be loose and jumped timing, a worn out timing chain makes kind of a tick/metal taping noise.

Here's a video a bit about timing, it's good to help show the parts, but follow the service manual because he doesn't seem to know a whole lot about what he's talking about. The small section of the video I watched he called the pulse generator a CDI lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx6I3V5qXmw

At about 6:08 he shows the mechanical advancement part and you can see his springs are junk and it seems it was damaged quite a bit. The whole assembly is sold yet from Honda, here's the part number/image for reference.

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/30220-427-164?ref=88404f20a76d5bb48b75c057e0d3964e90cfa28b


One of the parts on your list I can help with though, I make the main harnesses =). Probably won't help too much with this situation unless it's somehow a poor connection causing the issue.

[NlBurden]

The engine sounds healthy, like no out of ordinary chain sounds or valve sounds. Now the bike is Loud of course cause i am waiting on the new muffler in the mail still. Yes, I intend on getting one of your harness' lol. Its a cool little bike, this one is going to be the one I use most frequently as the other one the 200m is in great shape, and im trying to keep it that way! I'll check out the links posted. And shoot over a video of the bike when I get it running tomorrow. Yes, I bought one of those china carbs after watching a youtube video saying that they can last a few years. I figured i'd keep it on hand as a spare ready to go. I like having new parts on hand. The other day, I had a wheel bearing go out in the truck, I had one in the garage ready to bolt in haha. Mechanic at heart.I know this bike definitely will need a new harness.I am looking forward to having a few new parts on it, that way I can be more certain of less break downs.

Also these three wheelers are funny, I tried to get up over a half steep bank earlier. I got stuck the first time, then the bike rolled backwards down the hill. Tried with more throttle the second time and it wheelied up the bank! haha... The new chain I got on is loose already as well, So I guess time to remove a link. It seems to have broken in /stretched quickly/

[ps2fixer]

Ahh yea, running with just an open header it's going to run like crap unless the carb was retuned for it. I wouldn't worry a ton about it till you get an exhaust on it. Still never hurts to check the mechanical timing and double check the pulse generator/mechanical advancer parts. Pretty easy to get to and is normally clear if it's good or has issues.

Yep, 3 wheelers can be a blast, a huge perk for them is power to weight ratio is quite high vs a quad, and the weight savings is in the front end, so they tend to wheelie very easy. Once you get a hang of the machine more, leaning forward and such can counter the wheelies some. Like when I drag raced my 350x at trike fest for run, I laid as far forward over the handle bars as I could, and it still wheelied in 1st-3rd gear, but I had really grippy tires too.

The chain will probably continue to stretch for a while. It's kind of crazy how they break in. Also I think brand makes a huge difference too. Like the one on my 350x is old as hell, rusty as can be, but it hasn't stretched enough to need adjusting in years, granted I haven't rode it *that* much. My 350 warrior on the other hand, it was like every month it needed the chain adjusted, guessing we just were buying junk chains or the sprockets were wearing to the chains a bit too much.

[NlBurden]

Well I was gonna take a video of the trike running, however it won’t start now. Probably the ignition switch that’s giving me the no start as the headlight isn’t turning on now. I’m going to be getting a new ignition switch. In the mean time for testing, I can just connect the wires together for the “ on “ position right ? Bonus ! Got the new muffler in today so guess what my project is today!
Additionally it’s quite hilarious the 200e won’t start, I tried my 200m earlier and literally like half a pull and it ran perfect! Fregging e lol

[ps2fixer]

For ignition, just unplug the ignition switch, it will have spark but no lights. I grabbed up the service manual, if you want lights + electric start to work, you'd connect Red and Yellow/Red together which happens to be the right terminals to just connect together. It's almost like Honda designed it to be easy to remove the ignition switch.

[NlBurden]

Well I was in looking at the wires. I unplugged the switch and connected the red with yellow wire and not getting any headlight now. The wires are a horrible mess and I’m a bit lost at what to do with it. I think I need to strip the bike down again as the chain is slack, the carb is probably fouled cause my plug is fouled again, and now I have no headlight. Bikes back to being undriveable.

[ps2fixer]

Interesting, the red wire should always have battery voltage at it, if not you have a broken wire or blown fuse.

Man I hate hacked up harnesses, and on top of that you're missing some insulators. That red wire defo needs to be isolated so it can't hit metal/ground/green wire. Same with the black wire since it would kill the engine if it shorted to ground. I also see why your electric start doesn't work, green/red wire is cut in the pic, that's part of the starter circuit.

You can see the spark plug electrode is wet, likely with gas. The Black soot around it is the sign of being rich. Another possible thing that could be causing the rich condition, does your carb flood if you leave the gas valve on? Until you fix the problem, you could reuse the spark plug until you get the exhaust on and such. I'd think it would go more rich with the exhaust installed though. Anyway, to make the spark plug usable again, set it on a junk of scrap metal and use a portable torch on the electrode. You should see a little bit of yellow flame from the gas burning off. It's a bit of a art but you want to do it long enough to dry it out, but not too long that you over heat the metal. It shouldn't glow at all when you take the torch off. Too much heat will crack the porcelain. Once you think you've fixed the issue, throw a new plug in and see what happens.

I think I linked this before, but I find myself using my created diagrams more and more lol, need to make more of them. You can see the red wire is always hot and runs though a 7 amp fuse. Pretty sure you should be able to follow the battery cable and where it splits off is where the fuse is at.

http://atvmanual.com/honda/81-atc200e/78-1982-1983-atc200e-big-red-simplified-electric-start-diagram

[NlBurden]

Yea you’re right the fuse is probably blown. Yeah a lot of the connections were taped together. Bit bummed out, I thought it was a good thing buying the bike off a older man, but it seems like when things broke he just ran another wire rather then fix it properly. And yes the green w/ red wire for the starter push button is not connected. When I was troubleshooting it originally I found that there was continuity from behind the headlight down to the solenoid. The wire is broken somewhere internally otherwise I should have got a beep. I’m quite discouraged with it currently. I head out for my work term in a few days so project will have to sit for now. Literally my plan with the bike now is get one of your reproduction harnesses that way I can ensure everything’s together the way it should be. And then I’m installing a new ignition switch,ignition coil,the new carb, new muffler and then go from there.

[ps2fixer]

Just wondering, which ignition switch did you buy (did you buy one already?). I mod Chinese switches for the application, I charge for my time but still reasonable priced part. I haven't dug into it much, but I could also source a Honda made ignition switch and match the wiring up for your machine as well, just would be a higher cost since the source part is more.

Sounds like I need to start working on a 83 200e harness lol.

[NlBurden]

I got one of those SHUmandala 4 wire ignition switches, supposively it’s the same for the 200’s and Fourtrax models. Are they different from the original wiring if you have to mod them? Yeah a replacement harness is the better option for this bike. I have to make a effort to really dig through the mountain of parts I got in containers,no idea if there’s any spare harnesses to use for the time being. But realistically I’d rather fix things right. Too me the trikes are new machines so I don’t mind spending the time getting them back in their prime.

[ps2fixer]

The China switches are for a china quad so wrong colors and connector + it's junk china wire. I take the switches apart and polish the contacts inside since they always have a weird film on them that doesn't always have good contact, add some lube since there's none in there and Honda switches are filled, then re assemble and replace the wiring with good quality stuff, same wire I use in my harnesses, and of course good terminals (most are Japanese made).

Here's a link to my listing. Some day I have to get a better camera and new photos so you can see it clearer. The old switches I got used to be hit and miss on the finish, but any more they all look pretty good.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Honda-ATC-200ES-200E-200M-125M-New-Ignition-Key-Switch-KS101R/192035280253


Is this the one you bought? If so, the photos are clearly the wrong part (wrong wire and 2 female connectors instead of one), that listing also stole my part number (KS101R), I have really bad issues with people copying that listing of mine. In the shape those switches likely come, they should be sold for like $8 and still have plenty of mark up.

https://www.amazon.com/CBK-Ignition-Switch-KS101R-35010-958-680/dp/B07M7S81S9

If you end up wanting the ignition switch I make, we can just combine the price with the harness and ship in one box to save a ton on shipping.

[NlBurden]

Oh cool! I didn’t know you have a ebay store set up. I bet if you put up the fully made 200 harnesses / main harness you’ll sell a lot of those. Up around here there’s a lot of 200’s going around still. I like looking at stuff on eBay because it’s convenient. Like now if I look up wire harnesses for a 200 on eBay there’s just ones from scrapped bikes, you’d probably be the only listing for a new one.
And yeah I have a similar one looks like the same style. Suppose to be fully waterproof.

[ps2fixer]

Yea the 82-83 harness shouldn't be too much of a problem, I'll have to figure out how much to charge since it's one of the more complex harnesses to make.

There's 2 other people that I'm aware of that makes harnesses on and off for machines, one makes tecate harnesses, and the other I saw them making race style trx250r harnesses. Both sellers seemed to have disappeared though.

The best years for Honda, 84-85 sadly used a CDI connector that I can't seem to get. A business partner found the CDI side of the connector, but min order is 10,000 connectors, a bit more than what we could probably really use even though there's a LOT of 200ES machines out there with that plug. I'm hoping I'll be able to reproduce the connector in a silicone mold and have it turn out well, but I need more equipment and can only buy stuff as funds allow for.

Anyway, 82-83 uses an older style connector, very common and readily available, so no problems there, and 86+ machines typically used the "modern" 4+2 style CDI connector which also is readily available.

The ignition switch I sell, I won't lie and do marketing BS, it doesn't like swamp water or acid water getting in them. Out of about 1000 sold, I've had two people have issues with mud/water getting in the switch and causing rust and problems. I've added lube to those areas to help be an anti corrosive ever since then. Even the OEM Honda ones are not water proof, but they are pretty water resistant. This is also why I sell the ignition switch with the rubber key cover, it helps shield the switch from water/mud from getting into it. I see some sellers selling the switches that are just a key kind of like for a car, no shielding or anything, in fact my supplier slips a few of them in my orders sometimes so I often sell them like 1/2 priced just to get rid of them.

I have quite a bit of stuff setup btw lol. I have a webstore, but it gets so little traffic I don't keep it fully updated/in stock. Same goes for my 3ww shop listings, I have to run them them some time and restock some stuff.

Web store - http://atcfixer.com
3ww Shop Items - http://shop.3wheelerworld.com/sellers/atcfixer/products/

I also have a parts interchange site that's probably getting replace called http://atvinterchange.com probably going to replace it with http://atvmanual.com though since I want it to be a good 1 stop resource for any tech info and maybe get some guides on how to do different jobs and such. Not limiting myself to 3 wheelers since I enjoy quads and side by sides are alright too. Snowmobiles, off road trucks etc I could add down the road, but first need to get solid info up for at least the 3 wheelers. Kind of funny, my site names are not too different, guess it's just how my mind works, right to the point (sometimes at least).

You'd probably be shocked how horrible some of the harnesses I've bought off ebay were. Nearly all of them were listed and good usable condition, but plenty had broken wires, very dry rotted wiring, or super corroded connections. I think about 20-25% of the harnesses I've bought are good enough I'd even think about using on a machine. My collection of harnesses almost covers all Honda 3 wheelers, got a couple of years of the 250r to go and I'd like to get an 87 200x harness some day just to have it on hand, I have notes on the differences, but it's nice to have it on hand.

[NlBurden]

Yea the 82-83 harness shouldn't be too much of a problem, I'll have to figure out how much to charge since it's one of the more complex harnesses to make.

There's 2 other people that I'm aware of that makes harnesses on and off for machines, one makes tecate harnesses, and the other I saw them making race style trx250r harnesses. Both sellers seemed to have disappeared though.

The best years for Honda, 84-85 sadly used a CDI connector that I can't seem to get. A business partner found the CDI side of the connector, but min order is 10,000 connectors, a bit more than what we could probably really use even though there's a LOT of 200ES machines out there with that plug. I'm hoping I'll be able to reproduce the connector in a silicone mold and have it turn out well, but I need more equipment and can only buy stuff as funds allow for.

Anyway, 82-83 uses an older style connector, very common and readily available, so no problems there, and 86+ machines typically used the "modern" 4+2 style CDI connector which also is readily available.

The ignition switch I sell, I won't lie and do marketing BS, it doesn't like swamp water or acid water getting in them. Out of about 1000 sold, I've had two people have issues with mud/water getting in the switch and causing rust and problems. I've added lube to those areas to help be an anti corrosive ever since then. Even the OEM Honda ones are not water proof, but they are pretty water resistant. This is also why I sell the ignition switch with the rubber key cover, it helps shield the switch from water/mud from getting into it. I see some sellers selling the switches that are just a key kind of like for a car, no shielding or anything, in fact my supplier slips a few of them in my orders sometimes so I often sell them like 1/2 priced just to get rid of them.

I have quite a bit of stuff setup btw lol. I have a webstore, but it gets so little traffic I don't keep it fully updated/in stock. Same goes for my 3ww shop listings, I have to run them them some time and restock some stuff.

Web store - http://atcfixer.com
3ww Shop Items - http://shop.3wheelerworld.com/sellers/atcfixer/products/

I also have a parts interchange site that's probably getting replace called http://atvinterchange.com probably going to replace it with http://atvmanual.com though since I want it to be a good 1 stop resource for any tech info and maybe get some guides on how to do different jobs and such. Not limiting myself to 3 wheelers since I enjoy quads and side by sides are alright too. Snowmobiles, off road trucks etc I could add down the road, but first need to get solid info up for at least the 3 wheelers. Kind of funny, my site names are not too different, guess it's just how my mind works, right to the point (sometimes at least).

You'd probably be shocked how horrible some of the harnesses I've bought off ebay were. Nearly all of them were listed and good usable condition, but plenty had broken wires, very dry rotted wiring, or super corroded connections. I think about 20-25% of the harnesses I've bought are good enough I'd even think about using on a machine. My collection of harnesses almost covers all Honda 3 wheelers, got a couple of years of the 250r to go and I'd like to get an 87 200x harness some day just to have it on hand, I have notes on the differences, but it's nice to have it on hand.
For the CDI's that you mention have you tried implementing in chinese built ones or like an adapter to connect to one? I don't know a lot of the details about the electronics involved, however i did see some interesting experimenting random people are trying online. One guy put a chinese ignition system (harness,etc) on a 200 and it runs. Maybe the cdi's are compatible. Yeah i hear you about the ebay harnesses, a lot of them do have the common broken wires and such. I think the 200M I got is a 84 model, but the 200e I'm almost 100% sure that one is a 83. I'm super pumped with the shape that the M is in as the wire harness even looks super clean / original.
I haven't seen any 250r's or 200x around here. We had a vintage honda how not long ago and about 3 250r's were there. They are probably the only ones i've seen around here in my life haha. I do like the look of those bikes, knowing myself i'd probably end up getting injured on a 250r

[ps2fixer]

The 250r vs 200 series is night and day difference. Good suspension vs hard tail, you can't push a hard tail the same as a 250r/200x/350x, and my experience was they didn't have enough power to power slide very well as a way to slide the rear instead of flipping if you take a turn too fast. I ride fast and hard on my machines, so that's a bit of a requirement for me which is why I stick with 250cc+ 3 wheelers. Just my personal preference though, I grew up off roading things. I can drift a car on a dirt road much smoother than on a normal road, I turn out of the drift at the wrong time.

The 200 series engines with the mechanical advancer works pretty well with the Chinese CDI's *if* they don't have any advancement built into them. I think they might be a tiny bit retarded on timing vs the stock CDI but they work. Mike has CDI's manufactured based on a atc200x CDI, so those should work really well on the other 200 series engines. http://mikesatvfix.com/ I'd assume they would work for the smaller models with the same ignition setup, like the ATC110 and ATC125M's with the pulse generator on the cam and mechanical advancement.

Adapters are no problem for 82-83 style to the 86+ style that Mike's CDIs are, the China CDI's I don't know if there's any with no advancement with the more modern plug, I'd have to research it a bit, but I think some of the Chinese CDI's are plug and play already, but maybe a couple wires have to be swapped. The core of how Honda engines work pretty much hasn't changed, so a CDI from the completely wrong engine normally can fire and likely make the engine run, it's the ignition timing that rules how well it will run though.

[Bigred1313]

Cool man, ill check those videos out this evening! I have been looking for a 250es for a long time now, usually its sold before i get the chance to look at a good one. They seem to be very popular around here. I'm not into the racey ones very much, but i do like the traditional utility style trikes. I got the oring chain on the way, but am having a hard time sourcing the front sprocket and rear sprocket around here. I was saddened to see that the local honda dealership no longer carries the sprockets and only have one outsource for getting the sprockets to me but it is pricey! Out of curiosity are the sprockets heat treated by any means? I'm learning lathes in some of my classes in college and could probably fabricate up that front sprocket, just not sure if it would last haha! I've looked at some sources from in the states to get the sprockets up to me, but i'm finding shipping costs are more then the parts themselves. Time to go poke back at the bike!

Also do you guys have a good way to tell if a sprocket is completely worn? I got a spare set of sprockets that came in my spare parts pile, one of them looks very newish but i can't tell if its worth throwing on for a while or not.

I have a 83 200e had to change front sprocket , have to take apart sub trans, take lots of pics to make sure its installed properly again , when i did mine i misaligned the hi low gears so now its hard to switch from low range to high range. Just a note, but also i bought mine off ebay.ca $55.00 USD, shipped in a week or so

[Bigred1313]

Sub trans needs to be removed , drain oil and take lots of pics to make sure its install correctly when your done , some inner case bolts that will need to be removed , remember where they all go as they are different sizes. Buy on ebay for $55USD SHIPPED

[Bigred1313]

Not to difficult, drain oil , flip on its side . Take step by step pictures to make sure everything goes back the same way it was removed, front sprocket is behind the case with the stator. You can inspect if u dont have a chain cover , by looking behind back left wheel(sitting on the bike) you should be able to see how bad the front sprocket is

[spennypye]

Well I got the cover off, and the one under came out easily. Took your advice and took two bolts and screwed them into the holes where the pull start cup bolts in. I then put a wrench on the bolts and let it bring up against the foot peg. And it worked out perfectly. I can see the front sprocket finally. It’s actually in better shape then I thought but I’ll be putting on the new one regardless at this point. Appreciate all the help highly. I’ll touch back when I have more trouble. Also since I couldn’t find much more information about the front sprocket changeout , I’ll do a write up with the pics and videos I took. After going through this process now it seems easy!

Hey there Burden, did you ever post pictures or videos of the full front sprocket replacement. I am also trying to figure out how to take on this task. It looks tough and the manual doesn’t show how to do it. Let me know where to find the videos. Thanks!

[ps2fixer]

I poked real quick at the Honda service manual and it basically says to removed left crankcase cover and sub transmission.

https://i.gyazo.com/e64e4047e92930d96a78883fa4f5fa95.png

Assuming you have the same manual, you'd follow the related sections for the instructions to remove those parts. It should be fairly straight forward, but I haven't personally replaced a sprocket on an engine with that design of system.