Barnboy's 1984 ATC200M Rebuild [Archive]

BarnBoy

01-28-2019, 11:05 PM

Hi all,

I have a 1984 Honda ATC200M I am going to be rebuilding. This bike has been in my family since new, and was used on the family farm for years. I got it in the winter of 2014, got it running again and drove it around the farm for the next year or so. Ended up moving, and didnt have a place to ride or truck to haul it anywhere so it pretty much sat in the garage from early 2016-now. I got it out every couple months, drove it around the street. Put a clutch in it in the summer of 2017 because it needed one bad.

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Reason for the rebuild is because it smokes and burns a fair bit of oil, also there is a ticking noise in the top end. And I have found metal shavings in the oil :( whenever I have changed it, so theres something in there that needs looked at. Also may end up splitting the cases and replacing the countershaft, but not sure on that yet.

First step was to check compression. Cold, not having been started since last spring compression was 135 psi. I think that's because of the oil that was in there. When I fired it up it fogged the whole neighborhood lol. But when I checked compression warm it was @ 125 psi. So not terrible, but not great.

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Took it on one last ride, then yanked the motor.

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Will update as I progress. Next step is to clean the crud off the engine.

shortline10

01-29-2019, 05:46 AM

BarnBoy

01-29-2019, 11:58 AM

Metal shavings could be a loose timing chain and the excessive noise your hearing , I’ve seen them so loose that they rub on the inner cases .
Timing chain is not self adjusting, you must loosen the 14mm nut at the lower left side of the cylinder while it’s idling and it will tighten , hopefully theirs enough tension left or you will need to replace it .

That could be it. I'm hoping that's the case. But some of them are magnetic so:(???

I've tried adjusting it, I might have a stretched chain as it didnt make a big difference. Planning on replacing the chain anyway when I'm in there. Original is 30+ yrs old.

Thanks

BarnBoy

01-29-2019, 12:00 PM

Any tips on cleaning all the gunk off the engine? I got 2 cans of engine degreaser, I guess it needs to be rinsed off so I'll have to be careful about not getting water all in the engine.

shortline10

01-29-2019, 02:17 PM

I use formula 88 for the pre wash and mineral spirits as the secondary cleaning of the outside and inside parts .

BarnBoy

01-29-2019, 09:00 PM

Ok, thanks. I'll probably just use this degreaser and rinse off with a hose this weekend once the temps get a bit above freezing.

BarnBoy

02-02-2019, 02:08 PM

Well, got some time to clean the engine this morning. Didn't end up using the degreaser. I used an old tooth brush, little wire brush, steel wool, and a wire wheel on a cordless drill. That and some hot soapy water and carb cleaner did a pretty good job of cleaning it. Hard to get into all the corners but the majority of the gunk is off. Don't want that falling in my engine. Inspected cases and they look good, can't find any cracks. A bit of minor pitting on the bottom, but should be fine.

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BarnBoy

02-05-2019, 05:08 PM

Anyone have experience with Winderosa oil seal kits? Found one, says it fits the '84 200S. I'm thinking it should fit my ATC200M just fine, correct? Would it be better to buy OEM seals or will these work fine?

https://www.mfgsupply.com/822341.html

BarnBoy

02-05-2019, 10:51 PM

Finally was able to start working on it today. Got the pulse generator off. One of the e clips for the weights was off and laying on the bottom of the cover. Still ran fine though. Here's a few pics. Hoping to document the whole process, partly to help myself on reassembly, but I hope it will also be a help for other people who are doing this.

Good clean work area and lots of plastic bags are a must 257092

Impact screwdriver helps a lot with safely removing Phillips head screws.
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Helps to mark pulse generator for reference.
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bkm

02-05-2019, 11:11 PM

I glanced over the OP's name and thought I'd seen a ghost.

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BarnBoy

02-07-2019, 12:15 AM

I glanced over the OP's name and thought I'd seen a ghost.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

??????????

BarnBoy

02-07-2019, 12:23 AM

Pulled the cam today. Small right side journals and lobes were worn but within spec. Right side journals however, are not so great. Cam journal is 0.003" below spec, and head journal is just barely below spec. Clearance is specified @ 0.003", but according to my calculations I have 0.009" clearance between the cam and journals. Bummer. Fair bit of play on the cam when installed too. And some minor scoring on the bearing surfaces.

Looks like I'll be needing a new cam, and will probably have to do something with the head too. I have a complete head off a 185S in the shed that I might be able to use if it will interchange. Have to check and see if it's any good. Gonna check and see, but maybe a new cam might close up that clearance a bit??? Probably not enough though.

Is there any easy fix for this other than a new head?

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bkm

02-07-2019, 12:31 AM

??????????Your screen name is similar to another member who has risen from the grave.

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BarnBoy

02-08-2019, 09:51 PM

Your screen name is similar to another member who has risen from the grave.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Ahh I see.

Got my case splitter arms from the machine shop. Tacked a nut on there and I'm ready to go. Sure beats spending $60 on the Tusk one.
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BarnBoy

02-08-2019, 10:02 PM

Also got the whole top end off the motor.
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As soon as I pulled the head oil started running out of the combustion chamber! Gasket was definitely compromised, I knew that from the leakage onto the cooling fins. It also appears to have an OEM .50mm oversize piston in it. Looked surprisingly clean too. Not sure how much slop there's supposed to be in the bore, but it had a bit.

Rod appears to be good. I can feel some side to side play which is normal, but cant feel any up/down play. Small end may be worn a bit, but appears to mic according to the "new" spec. Pin was miced and shows its on the lower end of spec. Tried an almost new spare pin I have and it tightens things up nicely.

All in all it doesent look terrible, theres nothing that jumps out at me. I knew it had been rebuild, but not to what extent. All my grandfather said was some guy rebuilt it and it cost a lot lol. I guess the guy may not have been a hack who did the work, as he used an OEM piston, and had it bored. Didnt just slap new rings on it.

Curious why it was bored to the 2nd oversize though?? If I have to bore again I will be at 3rd oversize.

BarnBoy

02-09-2019, 10:24 PM

Can ATC200 cylinders be bored over 66mm?

Also the screw for the rocker shaft retaining plate is more or less stripped. It's got a flat head screw. Tried carefully heating in case of loctite and still no go. Anyone have success with left-hand drill bits for removing stuck screws? Is it kosher to run old rockers on a new cam??

ArizonaATC

02-09-2019, 11:10 PM

BarnBoy

02-09-2019, 11:33 PM

Ok thanks.

So today I measured the bore....it mics 65.75mm. This doesn't make sense. Its got a piston stamped 50, which I'm positive means 0.50mm oversize. Should the cylinder not measure 65.50mm then?? This same piston that is stamped 50 measures 65.65mm. Can anyone explain how oversize pistons and cylinder work? I am confused.

Dirtcrasher

02-10-2019, 02:21 PM

Yes, I have 67mm pistons or 1st gen, it's probably the last bore thou...

BarnBoy

02-12-2019, 12:39 AM

How much play is ok in the wrist pin/small rod end? The pin I pulled out of the engine had a fair bit of play, so I tried a spare pin I had that mics like new. It has a very tiny bit of play, but feels pretty tight. Doesn't it need a little play for lubrication? Slides in and out pretty easily. Doesn't appear really egged or anything.

barnett468

02-12-2019, 01:37 AM

How much play is ok in the wrist pin/small rod end?

Doesn't it need a little play for lubrication? Slides in and out pretty easily.

Yes it needs a little play for lubrication, however, it doesn't need much play or much oil, because it doesn't rotate much in the rod, but the better the oil, the less potential there will be for it to gall if the clearance is on the tight side etc.

I can't find the clearance tolerance in the manual although it may be there somewhere, and you can't go by the max allowable pin and pin bore wear because that will give you .005" clearance, which is far too much unless you are selling it. In general, for your app, you can safely get away with around .0006" to .0012", although it won't grenade if the clearance is a little more but it might make a little noise.

Pin = .5980 thru .5906

Connecting rod small end = .5909 thru .5930

Page 7-1 & 10-1

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/200M_84-85_shopmanual.pdf

BarnBoy

02-12-2019, 01:38 PM

Yes it needs a little play for lubrication, however, it doesn't need much play or much oil, because it doesn't rotate much in the rod, but the better the oil, the less potential there will be for it to gall if the clearance is on the tight side etc.

I can't find the clearance tolerance in the manual although it may be there somewhere, and you can't go by the max allowable pin and pin bore wear because that will give you .005" clearance, which is far too much unless you are selling it. In general, for your app, you can safely get away with around .0006" to .0012", although it won't grenade if the clearance is a little more but it might make a little noise.

Pin = .5980 thru .5906

Connecting rod small end = .5909 thru .5930

Page 7-1 & 10-1

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/200M_84-85_shopmanual.pdf

Thanks!! My rod small end id is 0.5914. The spare piston pin I have measures 0.5905. So I have right around 0.0009"-0.001" clearance. The rod end is ever so slightly egged, maybe 0.0003-4" max. I don't think that's anything to really worry about?? There's just barely a tiny bit of noticable play, but it's pretty tight.

If this rod checks out that would be awesome cause I don't really want to spend $200 on a new one if I don't need to. It's got 0.012" side to side clearance, and I can feel absolutely no up/down play.

barnett468

02-12-2019, 01:42 PM

I for one would not worry at all about the egg shape and assure you it wont be a problem in your particular app.

barnett468

02-12-2019, 02:00 PM

Also, if there is no hole in the top of the rod, you can increase the amount of oil to the pin by drilling a 3/32 hole in the top then radiusing the entrance a little with a bigger drill or dremel etc then be sure to sand the inside of the rod slightly where the hole is with around 800 grit paper to remove metal from around the edge of the hoke that might be protruding slightly into the pin hole.

barnett468

02-12-2019, 02:05 PM

BarnBoy

02-12-2019, 10:00 PM

I for one would not worry at all about the egg shape and assure you it wont be a problem in your particular app.

Thats what I wanted to hear :cool: Once you start getting into 10 thousandths thats getting pretty small!

I'll have to check if its got a hole. I'm not real keen on drilling my good rod tbh. Will it make that much of a difference? Its got 2 good sized holes on the top sides already.

barnett468

02-12-2019, 10:29 PM

Thats what I wanted to hear :cool: Once you start getting into 10 thousandths thats getting pretty small!

I'll have to check if its got a hole. I'm not real keen on drilling my good rod tbh. Will it make that much of a difference? Its got 2 good sized holes on the top sides already.

It won't hurt a thing to add a hole to it, and yes, it will increase oil flow to it. Is it overkill....well, that depends on how you look at it, but the undeniable fact is that the hole in the rod is egg shaped a little and the pin is worn, and more oil and/or better oil, and/or more frequent oil changes etc would have reduced the wear, and that is a guarantee. If it already has holes in the top like the one I mentioned, you don't need another one, but it might benefit from them being slightly larger and radiused if they currently are not.

Can you post a photo of the holes you are referring to?

BarnBoy

02-12-2019, 11:31 PM

Yeah, here's a pic. They aren't directly on the top, but on the top half. 257242

barnett468

02-12-2019, 11:37 PM

Yeah, here's a pic. They aren't directly on the top, but on the top half. 257242

xln't, you don't need another hole.

.

BarnBoy

02-12-2019, 11:59 PM

xln't, you don't need another hole.

.

Awesome! I was looking at it like....man if it don't get enough oil through those 2 holes something's wrong.

Hoping to get the bottom end tore apart as soon as time allows. Finally got the printer fixed and shop manual printed out. I like to have it right there and go step by step, especially since this is my first bottom end.

BarnBoy

02-15-2019, 12:50 AM

Got then cases split tonight. Like an idiot I forgot that the centrifugal clutch was LEFT HAND thread, so when using my impact to remove it tighted a bit and then wouldn't budge. Tried it again, just using my hands to hold the clutch drum, and it kept slipping. THEN I realized it was left hand thread, and buzzed it off. Didn't sit there an hammer on it all that long, but it got pretty tight. I'm really hoping I didn't screw up the threads. They look maybe a tad stretched but not that bad.

Also, both of the Phillips head screws for the oil pump are stripped. I was expecting this, and used a impact driver, but they are stuck really good. I do want to inspect the oil pump....but idk if they use a sealant on the threads? Anyone ever have to drill them out?

Case splitter worked good, but manual didn't mention that one bolt that comes in from the right side. So I couldn't figure out why only one side was separating. Found the bolt and it split perfect. Was careful with the splitter, so I don't think I did any damage.

BarnBoy

02-15-2019, 12:53 AM

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Can see where timing chain was rubbing on case too.

BarnBoy

02-16-2019, 10:44 PM

Anyone have any tips on what works to remove stuck/stripped oil pump screws?

Also whats the best way to replace the case bearings? Heat in oven? If so what temp? Puller? Any tips appreciated.

Also noticed this spot near the crank bearing. Looks to me like it was machined this way, but just curious if thats normal? Had a small amount of side to side play with the bearings sliding in the case housing before disassembly. But didn't notice any rubbing. Is crank supposed to have in/out play when installed?

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BarnBoy

02-21-2019, 10:06 AM

Oil pump screws were stripped, so drilled them out with a left hand drill bit. Worked like a charm. Busy cleaning/scraping gaskets on the cases.

Also found a local Harley mechanic who can bore and hone the cylinder for $60. Once I get a piston that's what I'll do.

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Gabriel

02-21-2019, 11:21 AM

Doin good bro. Keep it up.

A 200M engine is next on my build list. .....soon as I can find a 200m engine that is. Lol!
I have plans for a 200m engine.

ironchop

02-21-2019, 12:36 PM

Damn. This thing ain't going down without a fight.

I admire your perseverance

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BarnBoy

02-21-2019, 10:49 PM

Thanks fellas. This forum is a big help. The goal is to end up with a pretty much brand new motor (or close to it...replacing everything that not within spec), all new bearings. I replaced clutch not long ago so that's new too.

Gonna get a gal or 3 of diesel fuel to wash the grime off the cases I think.

BarnBoy

03-07-2019, 10:08 PM

Been chipping away at this project. Getting parts ordered, cases cleaned, and everything miced. Might be ordering a used set of engine cases....not sure yet. Anyway here's some pics, was able to get most stuff OEM. Some was discontinued but thankfully eBay had some.

For the countershaft pilot bearing I bought a Koyo HK1512, only bearing not OEM....I'm thinking it should work just fine. OEM was NTN HK1512 V2. Not sure why it has the siffix V2 but hopefully they are the same bearing.

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Also head is being milled for bronze cam bearing.

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Removed left mainshaft bearing from case by setting oven to 275° and waiting till case would boil water drops sprayed on it. Then removed from oven, carried to garage, and a few good taps of the case on the workbench and it was out.

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Also trying to decide if I want to media blast the cases before reassembly or not. Not sure if I want to take the risk of media still being trapped in there.....but would be nice to get it cleaned up and painted and looking brand new.

Gabriel

03-08-2019, 06:18 AM

Looking good man.
It takes a loooong time for such a little motor.

BarnBoy

05-20-2019, 10:41 PM

Well, long time no post but I have been making progress....albeit slowwwww.

Got all the cases media blasted and a friend's place. Ended up ordering a nice used set of cases off eBay for like $50 that we're in better shape than my originals. Got them all cleaned up, and installed the last of the bearings in the bottom end. Also got the seals in the bottom end too so the cases are all done. Got the countershaft seal a tad underflush accidentally, but hopefully it will be fine.

Now all I'm waiting on is time, arrgh. Gonna be out of town for a bit, but when I get back I plan to take my crank to a local motorcycle engine builder for bearing replacement. He has the tools and know how, and hopefully it won't cost me too much.

Then have to get the bottom end reassembled and I can start on the top end. Cylinder bored, timing chain, piston, yada yada yada. Will update as I go.

Got an old Kawasaki klt250 to beat around on while I get the 200M back together. Except it doesn't run. So yeah. Another project lol :)

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BarnBoy

12-31-2019, 10:45 PM

Update: got the cases together, transmission assembled etc. Working on reassembling the rest of the bottom end now. Sent the crank to @dirtcrasher for replacing the crank bearings, so the only thing in there I haven't touched is the crank/con rod but it was well within spec.

Ordered a stock 200X piston in 3rd oversize and it's out to be bored at the shop now.

So, it's coming together slowly....can't wait till I can ride again.261164

Dirtcrasher

01-01-2020, 05:00 PM

Good deal bud, you're getting there!!

BarnBoy

01-26-2020, 10:37 AM

Well I got the left side of the engine all assembled. Cam chain, tensioner, starter gears, etc. Then I installed the cylinder with a flat top 200X Shindy piston. Working on putting the clutches together now. Going together good for the most part, so far. Hopefully I'll get the clutch stuff all buttoned up and I can start on the head.

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Homeless Dave

01-27-2020, 12:05 PM

BarnBoy

01-28-2020, 09:26 AM

Sounds like you are finally in the home stretch, i have found with rebuilds that as soon as the cases are back together on that it is smooth sailing till the end. cant wait to see the finished product.

Yessir, getting the cases and trans together is kinda the last big hurdle (hopefully lol). Now it's just a matter on cleaning and relubing parts, or installing new ones. My only apprehension is trying to get the centrifugal clutch nut torqued to 80ft lbs on the bench. Once that's done it's time to inspect the head again...lap valves and it'll be ready for paint!

Doing all this motor work makes me want to strip it down to the frame and get it powder coated and rebuild the chassis but it's been apart too long and I'm itching to ride it haha. Maybe once I get any kinks worked out I can do that.

BarnBoy

06-09-2020, 11:08 PM

Well it's still in progress....I need to get my rear in gear. Had some hangups with the valves/seats as a result of a dumbazz machinist. Came close to ruining the head but found a guy worth his salt who was able to save it. Anyway just waiting on painting the decompression lever, then that goes in along with the timing chain, side cases etc. Then likely painting the motor, still figuring that out. Here's where I sit now.

Also picked another 84....this time with 4 wheels. Probably my issue is that I work multiple projects lol. Gotta focus!!!

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BarnBoy

08-09-2020, 06:17 PM

Man its been a while since I updated this thread. Got the engine together, all I gotta do is adjust the clutch and then paint it.

Started on the rear disc brake comversion...should have that welded out and finished this week. Then its time to tear down and send stuff off to the powdercoater (frame, bearing carrier, racks, hitch, etc) Also thinking of getting the hardware replated if i can find someone local.

Making progress slowly but surely. I'm gonna get this thing finished....its been way too long. Time to quit messing with other projects and buckle down on this till its done. Goal is to have a mechanically 100% like new bike, with some improvements.

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ATC King

08-10-2020, 09:45 AM

Here's some pictures of how I mounted the XR600R front caliper.

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If I do another one, I'll do a little more clearancing in some areas, less removal of the old brake housing in others, and build smaller caliper brackets or add some holes to lighten them (just because).

In the pictures, I'm just using a bearing race as a spacer for the rotor during the build process, because that's what I had laying around and the rotor was on and off several times during the build. I used washers for final assembly. I also had the advantage of the master cylinder already being hooked up, so I could lock the caliper to the rotor to hold it centered and in place, which made lining up and tack welding the brackets easier.

BarnBoy

08-10-2020, 09:47 PM

Thanks King, appreciate that. I like how you pegged that lower mount through the drum brake cam bore. But I agree with lower profile mounts lol, lots of extra steel. But thats ok. Check out what I came up with, not finished yet just got the lower mount tacked on tonight. Got the height of the pads on the rotor pretty well perfect, also as square to the rotor as possible. Full floating caliper so it does have some room for error. Made sure I had free play both ways on the slides too.

I will likely box in the mount to the housing....I'd like to be able to do it differently but the carrier housing is such i think this makes the most sense. No chance of warpage this way either.

Can't wait to actually be able to stop!!!

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ATC King

08-11-2020, 05:08 PM

Can't wait to actually be able to stop!!!

No doubt. I had actually planned to add a disc brake to the front too, but after years of riding with drum brakes, and seeing how effective this is with a hand lever, I'm stopping with the rear.

The front disc parts went onto my YTM anyway, so not waste there.

daddy420big

08-12-2020, 02:14 PM

i been wanted to do this to my 200m that iam lifting for the rear . someone should come out with a kit that are made for the hardtails

BarnBoy

08-15-2020, 08:08 PM

No doubt. I had actually planned to add a disc brake to the front too, but after years of riding with drum brakes, and seeing how effective this is with a hand lever, I'm stopping with the rear.

The front disc parts went onto my YTM anyway, so not waste there.

Front disc would take some engineering but definitely doable. Ive always had good luck with the front brakes, just the rears always sucked. Ive actually been able to score a NOS NASA axle for this build so I'm going to get that, mount my rotor in my modified housing and ensure everything is still square. Then I will finish welding it out.

I need to paint my motor yet and its been frustrating trying to find a decent paint to use. But once I do that I'm going to finish the tear down for powder coat.

Jwheeler

08-16-2020, 10:59 AM

Front disc would take some engineering but definitely doable. Ive always had good luck with the front brakes, just the rears always sucked. Ive actually been able to score a NOS NASA axle for this build so I'm going to get that, mount my rotor in my modified housing and ensure everything is still square. Then I will finish welding it out.

I need to paint my motor yet and its been frustrating trying to find a decent paint to use. But once I do that I'm going to finish the tear down for powder coat.

Lane where did you find a brand new NOS NASA super axle from ? You need to post pics .:pics:

BarnBoy

08-16-2020, 12:11 PM

Lane where did you find a brand new NOS NASA super axle from ? You need to post pics .:pics:

From another cool guy I met on the forum....wait I think it was you Jwheeler!! Lol :) Thanks again man, I'll definitely post up some pics.

Side note to anyone else looking for parts, Jwheeler has been excellent to deal with.

BarnBoy

09-05-2020, 10:50 PM

Well, been doing a bunch of work on the 200M this week. Got the motor painted with vht universal engine aluminum enamel paint. No primer.....hopefully it holds up ok. Looks great though, the can says to bake in an oven but since I can't do that I ran a heat gun over it for about an hr. Should at least help it cure up some.

Then I turned my attention to the chassis. First bad news....my NASA axle doesent fit my modified disc brake housing. Apparently the 200M housing is different. This was a spare i had and it looked them side by side I can see the difference now. Live and learn.

Went through the fiches on Partzilla and found EVERY SINGLE bolt, nut, screw, and washer for this machine. I then cross referenced that over to Belmetric and placed an order. So I have all brand new zinc plated hardware on the way.

I got the frame stripped down, only to find a small soft spot. Ok, no biggie I'll cut it out and plate it and be good to go. Start scraping crud out of the footpeg mounting plate, and realize....oh shiit. Completely rusted through. Theres ontario salt and years of moisture and muck being trapped in there for ya. Pull it out again tonight to start wire brushing some of the crud off the rest of the frame. I find that the whole gusset plate behind the lower rear motor mount is rusted out, along with the tubes inside. So i now have a dillema....do I cut it out and fix or source a mint frame from somewhere. Gonna be a lot of cutting and fabbing which I'm plenty capable of. Its just idk what else ill run into. I need to make sure the rest of this thing is rock solid.

But hey, the NOS Nasa axle fits my 200M housing!!! So i got that goin for me......lipstick on a freakin pig at this point ��

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First lil soft spot discovered...

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Simple wire brushing revealed....

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And before anybody says.....parts trike! Shut up, not gonna happen lmao. Im talking to you ATC King 😆. But I do appreciate your insight if you have any, or know of a good frame.

...........but man I do question at times......what the heck am I thinking. Just more money! Right!? Ugh

BarnBoy

09-07-2020, 06:43 PM

Stripped everything off the frame and washed it today. Im probably going to attempt a repair, I just don't know how far its rusted. There may be sectioned of rusted tube that look fine on the outside but are almost rusted through inside. Will likely need to build a jig to mount the frame in if i repair or even cut into it. Metal has a way of twisting and springing when you cut apart a piece such as a frame. Especially with as much as I will need to cut out.

I wish i had space in the garage to weld....I would build a jig and just fab my own frame. Not this time I guess, maybe a good idea for that rusted 185s I have. Full suspension, thicker steel, make it to where a plastic 200 seat pan can be used....that would be cool.

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BarnBoy

09-08-2020, 11:40 PM

Drawing some guessets and stiffeners in Cad to plasma cut and weld on to the frame.

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Dirtcrasher

09-09-2020, 03:10 PM

That motor paint came out great Lane...

BarnBoy

09-09-2020, 07:35 PM

That motor paint came out great Lane...

Thanks Steve, next time I talk to you ill tell ya about it. But overall pretty happy. Next is the black side covers, then the motor is done.

ATC King

09-09-2020, 08:39 PM

And before anybody says.....parts trike! Shut up, not gonna happen lmao. Im talking to you ATC King ��.

:beer

I mostly say that for people wanting to flip these things, but in your case...wowzers, good luck with that one. I'll definitely appreciate seeing what your solution is.

I understand the amount of work that goes into something like that.

Keeping the foot peg area clean is a real PITA though. It's a big muck trap. I'm surprise more of them aren't rusted out in that area.

ironchop

09-09-2020, 09:05 PM

Motor looks fantastic

So does that NASA axle.... WOW

Sucks about the frame. I'm hoping you can save it

BarnBoy

09-10-2020, 10:02 AM

:beer

I mostly say that for people wanting to flip these things, but in your case...wowzers, good luck with that one. I'll definitely appreciate seeing what your solution is.

I understand the amount of work that goes into something like that.

Keeping the foot peg area clean is a real PITA though. It's a big muck trap. I'm surprise more of them aren't rusted out in that area.

Yeah I totally understand. And honestly....I think you are correct, I was just talking a lil smack. But I'm gonna give this a go. However I'm open to the fact that it may not be fixable. For example if we cut into it and its rotten way further than we thought, and so much would have to be cut out that its new frame time. Whether that be custom or a solid OEM. If I had the resources I would be building a custom full suspension frame, cause that would be badazz. But I'd like to at least attempt to repair this one. Whats the worst I can do? Screw it up worse??

You are absolutely correct re: keeping the footpeg cavity clean. I would wager that if everyone that owned a hardtail that was taken through mud etc often checked that area, 75% would have rust. At least. I will likely drill some larger drain holes in the tube, and also some drain holes in the footpeg mounting crossmember. Also will be going around and welding places like the end of the flattened frame tubes, where water can get in. Plus, instead if the paper-thin tube honda used, ill be replacing the rusted section with 1" OD DOM. Likely .109 or .125 wall....but .125 wall may be too thick. We shall see.

BarnBoy

09-10-2020, 10:05 AM

Motor looks fantastic

So does that NASA axle.... WOW

Sucks about the frame. I'm hoping you can save it

Thanks Chop, appreciate it. That NASA axle was def a cool piece to score. Beats a used replated OEM axle all to pieces.

Will keep this thread updated with pics of progress on the frame.

BarnBoy

09-10-2020, 07:18 PM

Aaaaaaand we are moving forward. Parts cut on the plaz today. Need to get some tube and then start makin sparks!!

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BarnBoy

10-24-2020, 11:45 PM

Update!!! Stuffs been happening on the build, some good some bad. Let's start with the good. Frame subsection is fabbed up and welded out! Looks good as new and definitely more heavy duty, which is perfect I used 1" OD 0.125" wall DOM tubing, bent on the JD2 bender. I also turned 2 plugs to fit inside the old frame tube and the new stock, to keep things lined up. Then the whole thing was TIG welded, my first time ever TIG welding carbon, prior to this I've touched a TIG torch maybe 2x really, just on some aluminum here and there.

I also drilled some 5/16" drain holes in the bottom of the frame tube, along with 2 new holes on the bottom of the footpeg mount/dirt collector.

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Note the 2 extra holes
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ATC King

10-25-2020, 12:14 AM

The Six Million Dollar Trike

You sir, have got to be in the top tier of hardtail frame savers. Right tools, right experience, right on time.

BarnBoy

10-25-2020, 09:27 AM

The Six Million Dollar Trike

You sir, have got to be in the top tier of hardtail frame savers. Right tools, right experience, right on time.

Yeah no kidding. Haha, I'm going to have 10x into it what its worth, but thats ok with me. Its never gonna be sold.

Thanks King, its honestly just access to the right tools and at the right time. I work in a weld shop as a fabricator by day, but we really don't do any tube work or TIG welding. That part is new to me, learning as I go.

But it gets better, I still have that back section to cut out and re-gusset. Should be a piece of cake though, compared to the bending and coping of that compound angle of the motor cradle.

BarnBoy

12-20-2020, 06:51 PM

Finally got my frame finished folks! That was a bunch of welding, cutting, and fabricating but its done.

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Made some skid plate mounting blocks

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And built up the worn steering stop

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BarnBoy

12-20-2020, 06:55 PM

So, as some of you may have seen in my other thread...my motor paint turned out a flop. Looked great till I pulled the masking tape and half of it flaked off. Multiple issues, probably including operator error contributed to this issue. My plan is to turn some plugs on the lathe and use a hot pressure washer to remove the paint, then prep and repaint again.

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BarnBoy

12-20-2020, 06:59 PM

I've been pondering the best way to modify my rear bearing carrier to convert it to disc brakes. My solution is to build a completely new one from scratch. I will R&D (rip off and duplicate) the mounting brackets in CAD and cut them on the CNC plasma table, turn my own custom housing and design and plasma cut a mounting bracket for whatever caliper I end up using. Should be less time and look wayyy cleaner than modifying the old housing. Stay tuned.....

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Jim mac

12-20-2020, 09:19 PM

that's a chain drive right? easy idea i have is to just use the original drum as a hub to mount a disc on. might need a 1/8 inch or 1/4 inch washer to move the disc out. bolt the disc to the brake hub and build a mount for a caliper. jim

350for350

12-20-2020, 10:12 PM

Maybe you could find a wrecked, chain drive quad with disc brakes for cheap. Then cut the carriers off and weld the quad carrier onto your trike and use the rest of the quad parts as well. I'm NOT talking about the cheap, Chinese quads.

BarnBoy

12-21-2020, 01:21 AM

Yes, its chain driven. A 200X rear rotor and hub fits the axle, same spline. Thats what ill be using, just have to make a small spacer to make up for the narrower width vs the drum. The caliper used will be a XR650 front caliper dual piston, cause I can. And that's what I have available.

I could use another carrier, or mount it to the existing housing somehow, but wheres the fun in that. Thats not how I roll, I'm going to build one better than you could ever hack together from stock parts. And it won't take much more time either compared to modding an existing one. Also, doing it the way I'm thinking, I can incorporate a small lift and stretch directly into the carrier mounts, like a true bolt on lift kit, no welding necessary. Whether I do that or not remains to be seen, we'll see what I come up with first.

ironchop

12-21-2020, 10:13 AM

This thread is awesome

Nice work on the frame, sir!

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

Dirtcrasher

12-21-2020, 03:02 PM

You're lucky that the 200X splines are the same. When I made my ATC70 disc setup I just mounted a ATC70 drum in my lathe and turned it all off aside from the splines and made a shoulder on the hub. I welded on a flange and turned it straight in the lathe and found that an 82 250R disc was the perfect size.

I had some kind of NOS japanese caliper laying around and used that. If there's a will there's a way...

There's a dude on Facebook selling ATC 70 disc brake kits and he is charging almost 300$ and uses China brake parts :crazy: :rolleyes:

BarnBoy

12-22-2020, 09:25 AM

This thread is awesome

Nice work on the frame, sir!

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

Thanks chop! It started out as just a simple rebuild, and has turned into a full blown restoration. It'll be one of a kind once I'm done, thats for sure!!

BarnBoy

12-22-2020, 09:27 AM

ATC King

12-22-2020, 01:58 PM

ironchop

12-22-2020, 02:15 PM

...... I'm not worried about using Chinese brake calipers, and the one you're modeling it for has the OEM available if someone wants to shell out the cash. Either way, the Chinese copy and OEM Japanese calipers being available will give the buyer a lower cost option for completing the install.

...

I used the oem front caliper off a newer CR85 on the rear of my 200X. I paid $20 shipped for it(used in good shape, direct bolt-on)(I think they are Nissin brand) from that auction site, so there are still low cost options available even if you don't want Chinese stuff, for whatever reason.

Just throwing that out there for the folks who don't like Chinese stuff or don't like to spend a pile on an expensive brand new OEM caliper as an addendum to your post

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

BarnBoy

12-22-2020, 02:41 PM

It's looking good.

Building a carrier from scratch shouldn't be too difficult, especially with the tools and equipment you have access to. May be able to even build a few extra and see how quick you can sell them. I'm not worried about using Chinese brake calipers, and the one you're modeling it for has the OEM available if someone wants to shell out the cash. Either way, the Chinese copy and OEM Japanese calipers being available will give the buyer a lower cost option for completing the install.

I know switching my 185S to a hand operated rear disk has been a top mod. If the used 200X rear disks and hubs dry up though...

Yeah there's always the possibility they will dry up and then we'll just have to get creative. I had 3, sold 1 and keeping my last 2. 1 for this conversion and another for something down the road.

I may build a few extra. If I can source the right size tubing, itd be a simple matter of chop to length, bore ID for bearings, and make a little jig to weld the mounting brackets in. Voila. I have another idea to incorporate that I think would sell even better but I need to make 1 or 2 first.

ATC King

12-23-2020, 01:40 PM

I used the oem front caliper off a newer CR85 on the rear of my 200X. I paid $20 shipped for it(used in good shape, direct bolt-on)(I think they are Nissin brand) from that auction site, so there are still low cost options available even if you don't want Chinese stuff, for whatever reason.

That's good to know. There'll also be rebuild kits/parts for those. The Chinese parts are pretty much disposable. Can't easily get rebuild parts for them or even be worth rebuilding by that time.

BarnBoy

12-23-2020, 06:31 PM

That's good to know. There'll also be rebuild kits/parts for those. The Chinese parts are pretty much disposable. Can't easily get rebuild parts for them or even be worth rebuilding by that time.

But for $20, buy 3 and ride the rest of your life. I won't use a China master but calipers are cheap enough to have spares of, I dont see the point in rebuilding unless you have no other option.

BarnBoy

12-28-2020, 01:24 PM

Over the holidays I got my forks rebuilt and finally finished....they're ready to go! I did a writeup on the process which I will link here, in case it decides to try and disappear on me again.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/190481-ATC200M-front-fork-rebuild-writeup

Hope it helps someone out, I hadn't been able to find any info online about rebuilding these old school forks. I had hoped to document my engine rebuild and everything else im doing on the bike, but stuff happens, takes more time than anticipated and its a lot of time to to work, clean your hands, take a pic, then do something else, get all the oil off ya, repeat. But I know what it was like when I was starting out, so if I can put out any helpful info I'm happy to.

MrConcdid

12-28-2020, 03:32 PM

Decaf? come on man, if your going to drink, drink the good stuff.
otherwise great thread and fork rebuild.

MrC.

BarnBoy

12-28-2020, 09:37 PM

Decaf? come on man, if your going to drink, drink the good stuff.
otherwise great thread and fork rebuild.

MrC.

Haha, I dont drink decaf...I must have found the can somewhere and used it to store parts in. If I drink coffee its full strength and black.

I think only Yamaha riders drink decaf, least thats what I was told...

DSHOT59

12-30-2020, 03:00 PM

You were told wrong. :rolleyes:

BarnBoy

12-30-2020, 07:01 PM

You were told wrong. :rolleyes:

:beer I suppose we can still be friends

Getting kinks worked out of my drawing, hopefully cutting brackets when I get a chance. Got a piece of tubing on order...crazy how expensive that stuff is. $40 for a 12" piece.

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BarnBoy

01-05-2021, 11:09 PM

Stuck at home thanks to a case of the rona, give me lots of time to catch up on small stuff that had been piling up everywhere.

Aaaaand, me telling myself "yeah, let's pull a part off this parts bike to use on my 200M, its in way better shape" turned into, let's hack this apparently rust free frame up and "fix it" lol. Turns out, it was actually pretty solid but theres no way of knowing until you cut it out. So, its all prepped and ready to go, im gonna turn some plugs in the lathe Thursday probably and weld er up Saturday. Side note, this bike ended up being very nice for what it was. One of my best scores, gave $25 for it. Frame is rust free, still has all the aluminum wire bands, all the vent hoses, thing thing had NEVER been apart before. But it sat outside for a while, so the seat pan is gone, tank is junk, etc. Im gonna make a frakentrike out of it, use the engine and other good parts from my rusted 185s, this good frame, etc and just make a solid rider out of used parts. Nothing fancy, other than maybe powder coating the frame.

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It's the bike on the right, doesent look like much bit its a diamond in the rough.

Rusted 185s donor

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BarnBoy

01-05-2021, 11:13 PM

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Should be able to turn a piece to fit in here and be good to go. I know its off topic from the 200M, but I'm waiting on parts for the M. Just thought I'd throw a few pics out there of another frame repair option in case it helps anyone new to this stuff.

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kb0nly

01-06-2021, 04:22 AM

Nice to see you are making progress to! I was just finishing up my 82 200E build today when i got asked to put a top end refresh on another motor for a guy, and then when i found out whats wrong with it i came post hunting because if i recall correctly you did a bushing on the cam journal in your 200M build didn't you? Browsed through the thread, saw pictures of it fixtured on the mill and after the machining, but i didn't see any pictures of how it turned out with the cam installed. How did you affix the bushing so it can't slide side to side or is it a tight fit when the rocker cover is torqued down?

I got a head coming to look at that has a badly worn cam journal, and i have a couple more in my spare parts bucket, i would like to start saving these if i can mill them and put in a bushing i just haven't been able to find any details of someone doing it. I have a mill and lathe at home so i can make and machine anything i want, just need some direction on how its being done, what bushing material was used, etc. I could easily fixture plate to my mill and run the boring head through to clean it up, i do a lot of small machining jobs like that.

BarnBoy

01-06-2021, 10:46 AM

BarnBoy

01-07-2021, 04:21 PM

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Here's one pic I had on my phone. I'll have to look on my old phone, it should have the rest.

kb0nly

01-08-2021, 04:39 PM

BarnBoy

01-10-2021, 12:17 AM

Just got your PM and noticed your post here. That looks nice, the bronze bushing is pinched in place by the rocker cover then? I was looking at this and figured i could fixture the head and rocker cover with four long bolts through like the studs on the motor, torque them down to spec so i know the rocker cover is pinched down like it will be installed, then bore out for the bushing, make the bushing a bit undersized for the cam bore and install it and torque down again and then final size the bushing for the cam size while its all torqued down, should give me a reasonable result.

I have some bronze bushing/bearing material in various sizes, haven't checked if i got anything the right size yet. Luckily it appears the bore of the opening for the advancer base is concentric to the cam bore, the one i have to try this on is worn so bad that the heads cam bearing surface is worn at an angle and material is rolled over the front edge. I think they ran it without oil for a while.

The bronze bushing is pinched but also pinned to the head with a steel pin. Thats the safest way to do it. You want about a 0.001" interference fit from the OD of your bushing and the ID of the bore in head, with the pin. Make the whole bushing on the lathe, I wouldnt pinch and bore on the mill unless you were not going to pin it. If you don't pin it, you better cut a shoulder in the head on one side at least to locate that bushing, you don't want to chance it sliding at all inside.

As for oil clearance between the cam and bushing, @ 0.001" per inch of diameter is a pretty safe bet. I think my clearance was somewhere @ 0.0015", cam OD is like 1.3" diameter.

I've got a pretty good system down, having had.that one done already I know what works or what I would change next time.

I would not indicate off the advancer housing hole. Just give me a call...I'll walk you through exactly what I did, then you can figure out what works best for you.

BarnBoy

01-10-2021, 10:09 PM

Got the frame all fixed for the 82 atc200 (no letter). Glad to get that done...I still need to find a good seat pan. If anyone has one let me know.

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Still working on my TIG welding but happy with the result.

Hopefully I'll be back working on the 200M as soon as I get a few parts in.

kb0nly

01-11-2021, 05:50 AM

BarnBoy

01-11-2021, 03:11 PM

I just did some measuring tonight, my angle plate wasn't large enough, will have to dig up a larger one, this project is not a huge rush, it might take me months to work through this one. I also did some measuring and it looks like the advancer opening is not as concentric to the bore of the cam as i was hoping, my cam surface is completely trashed on this one so there is no measuring from it, so i got the probe out and put a good cam bushing in and bolted on the rocker cover with the four allen head bolts, just as a quick test with it all held in the vise, and yeah i can probe off the rear cam bushing and center the DRO from there and work off that with more precision. Hadn't really given it a lot of thought until i started looking closer at the issue.

I was planning on pinning the cam bushing like the rear cam bushing is, so we are on the same page there, i was thinking interference fit and a pin to keep it from spinning. Might not be until February before i get back to this now, i just picked up some other paying jobs that will keep me away from the hobby stuff for a while!

Well you saw my setup on the other thread right? I bolted the rocker cover to the head and to the angle plate with some long bolts. Take care to not scar the head gasket surface if you have it bolted together NOT on the angle plate. Keep in mind the the engine will be assembled using RTV or preferably yamabond etc to seal the valve cover. Apply the gasket maker to the surfaces before you bolt it together. You want EVERYTHING to be the same as it will be once its running.

Next, buy a new rear cam bushing. They are still available @ $25 NOS. Then you have a perfect hole to indicate off of, and its not worn at all. May need to get an indicator with a longer snout, whatever to reach down in there. I wouldnt trust anything other than that bushing to locate off of. Now, you still need to be at exactly 90° to the spindle and concentric on the bore. You could accomplish this by indicating off the big bearing hole as well as the small one, but obviously thats not an accurate method. You'll have to get creative, I forget what exactly we did but you may have to find a straight edge somewhere, use gage blocks and sweep it in, whatever you need to do. Once you make your first cut you'll have a surface you can indicate off of to see how close you are to concentric. You'll just have to mess with it, lot of setup time but the job itself isn't anything special.

Hope it helps, any other questions you know how to reach me..

kb0nly

01-12-2021, 05:09 AM

BarnBoy

01-17-2021, 04:41 PM

I was just thinking i should buy a new cam bushing to indicate off of.... We are on the same page, i got ideas how to do it. I have lots of indicators, a long arm one that should work, electronic probes, etc. Indicating in hasn't been a huge challenge for me on projects. Still learning on the milling side, running a lathe i'm more experienced, but a lot of learned methods apply.

Worst case scenario, i screw up a destroyed head and rocker cover that was headed for the scrap bucket so its a fun why not try project!

That's what I would do. Buy a right angle fixture plate, square it up on the bed. Then use a gage block and indicate across the advancer hole to square the head angularly. Center up off the lower bushing and make some chips. Please post pics of your setup/process and finished product. I dont have all the pics from when I did it, but if you document yours it will help people down the road.

On the topic of the 200M build, I got my material in yesterday for my bearing carrier. Hoping to start on that soon, should be pretty simple...just bore both ends for the bearings and seals, then make a center spacer. Will post pics as I progress.

BarnBoy

01-19-2021, 11:56 PM

Right now I'm waiting on basically some free time to start making the bearing carrier for my 200M.

I've been piddling off and on making plugs for the 200M motor, so I can keep it water tight and power wash the paint off it.

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DSHOT59

01-26-2021, 08:47 PM

Good to see another one saved. Great job on that frame man, looks sweet.

BarnBoy

01-31-2021, 04:27 PM

So finally got some time to work on the rear bearing carrier. Got the body turned, next step is to measure and make or modify my existing spacer. Then design and cut the disc brake bracket. Gonna be sweeeet.

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BarnBoy

02-07-2021, 10:44 PM

More progress. The mounts were plasma cut, and the threaded portion I turned a slug on the lathe. Centered and TIG welded, then drilled and tapped on the mill. Works much better than trying to weld a nut or pre-threaded slug onto a part because the heat always warps and distorts the piece. But if it's a solid slug you get a perfect hole. Threaded M12x1.25 just like from the factory. Super happy with how it's turning out so far.

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MrConcdid

02-09-2021, 01:57 AM

This man has skills.
MrC.
It's looking great.

Dirtcrasher

02-09-2021, 04:59 AM

This man has skills.
MrC.
It's looking great.

Yup, he's making some great stuff. Things that I couldn't do back then without equipment. I told Lane that he's spoiled now, he'll never be able to fix anything without a TIG, lathe and a mill :lol:

Blmpkn

02-09-2021, 09:10 AM

Yeah, this is coming along sweet! Wish I had access to a lathe and plasma goodies.

BarnBoy

02-09-2021, 10:35 AM

Yup, he's making some great stuff. Things that I couldn't do back then without equipment. I told Lane that he's spoiled now, he'll never be able to fix anything without a TIG, lathe and a mill :lol:

Thanks Mr. C and Blmpkn. And Steve you're exactly right...I've seen the light and I don't think I can go back now haha.

ATC King

02-09-2021, 11:59 AM

I told Lane that he's spoiled now, he'll never be able to fix anything without a TIG, lathe and a mill :lol:

Isn't that the truth.

As someone whose worked in several automotive shops, when I have to roll around on the shop floor at home because of no lift, it's difficult to muster the energy to even start a project.

BarnBoy

02-14-2021, 10:54 AM

Had some time last night to get some more work done. I got the bracket welded on within 0.020" square and warpage after welding. Probably not too bad considering the heat that went into it. Not super happy with my TIG welds but they cleaned up ok. Still learning as I go.

Needed a flat surface to measure from so I chucked this 6" slug in the lathe and faced off one side. Works much better than the bench which was all dirty and probably not flat from being dinged up.

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ATC King

02-14-2021, 12:21 PM

It's looking good.

Maybe after you get that one finished, you could bang out a few more to sell and see how it goes. A hydraulic, rear disk brake on those hardtails is a huge improvement, and I'm guessing that one carrier would fit several models, including the 200E.

BarnBoy

02-18-2021, 10:16 AM

Thought about it, we'll see how this one goes. The machining takes a fair bit of time and setup. The snow has been too deep on unplowed roads still to make it out to the shop and finish welding it. Hopefully soon...

ironchop

02-20-2021, 08:58 PM

Very nice work

BarnBoy

02-21-2021, 11:25 AM

Thanks Chop appreciate it. Got some time yesterday to finish welding it out. I think I gotta build a jig for this if I decide to make more....the way I was doing it takes forever. Only thing left to do is make my disc brake caliper mount and then its done, ready to powdercoat.

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MrConcdid

02-28-2021, 09:36 PM

Man that's too pretty to paint!

Awesome job
MrC.

ATC King

03-01-2021, 12:09 PM

Nice. I just bought every 200X rear disk on hub on Ebay.

JK :)

wild200x

03-01-2021, 08:53 PM

I am very impressed with your work. This is going to turn out awesome.

BarnBoy

03-01-2021, 09:49 PM

Ha I better snag some more up so I can offer a kit ATC King.

Thanks guys I appreciate the compliments. Hopefully I can design and cut the last bracket next week and get this thing done.

BarnBoy

03-21-2021, 09:24 PM

Back from the dead! Finally got the last mount designed, all I need to do is cut some prototypes and start test fitting it. Was quite the reverse engineering project, thankful to have a friend skilled enough in CAD to help me along through the process. When it's done then it's time for powder and moving on with life!

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BarnBoy

04-04-2021, 03:13 PM

Got the carrier finished last night. This being the first prototype, I've learned along the way and it's been a bunch of trial and error. In the future when I make another one I plan to modify my CAD drawing to where the caliper bracket and frame mounting bracket are one piece. However I couldn't get those measurements as I was building from scratch, so this carrier uses the 2 brackets welded together. Welded directly to the mounting bracket, not the axle tube as it doesent take much to warp it and the bearings will not fit properly. If I did it again I would weld the brackets on, then chuck in the lathe and bore for the bearings. Then it will fit perfect, no distortion.

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BarnBoy

04-11-2021, 12:46 PM

Update: final got all my parts together for powdercoating. I
think. Found a place with good recommendation to PC my 250r frame, swinger, and hopefully 200M front triple for $175, as those are the only items that will not be coated black. Then the rest of the 200M stuff is gonna be PC'ed black, and should be able to get that done for under $300 I hope. Then I need to make one more plug for my 200M motor, powerwash, and repaint. I've got like 4 hrs a week to work on this project so I'm making progress, albeit slowly.

MrConcdid

04-11-2021, 07:38 PM

That looks good enough to start manufacturing them.
Show-off!

mrc_builds

BarnBoy

04-12-2021, 01:44 PM

Just wait till I update my bracket to include the caliper mount. Then we'll be ready.

Just called and got a quote from my powdercoater. For blast and PC of 2 frames (1 red 250r, other black 200m), gold 250r swingarm, red 200m triples, and the rest of the 200m racks, carrier, misc brackets etc (all black) he quoted $400. Heard good things about this place and it's like HALF the price easy of anywhere else. Hopefully in the next few weeks we can make that happen.

350for350

04-12-2021, 09:41 PM

OMG! I'd be loading up my parts real quickly for that price!

BarnBoy

04-12-2021, 11:08 PM

OMG! I'd be loading up my parts real quickly for that price!

Yes sir, hopefully next week. They're only open 8-5, so I'll have to leave early from work one day next week or something to make it. Hopefully they have a colour close to Honda red....

BarnBoy

04-15-2021, 11:09 PM

If anyone knows the closest match to Honda Red for powdercoat let me know. They say they don't have an exact match...I want it as close as possible.

BarnBoy

04-21-2021, 12:09 PM

Slowly ticking off the last things on the list, hope to drop the stuff off at the powder shop Monday....hopefully.

A local trike guy hit me up as he is selling his 84 200m. Everything about the bike says low hrs, gas tank is literally spotless inside, only cons are the tank and rear rack need paint, and the rear fenders are cracked and repaired. He's gonna clean the carb and install a new battery for me. I'm excited, gonna be the first bike that I don't think I need to tear down at all, and it's gonna actually be running and rideable straight out of the gate!! I'll have twins whenever I get my original 84 fixed up.

350for350

04-21-2021, 09:46 PM

You're not going to know how to handle that.

MrConcdid

04-22-2021, 07:13 AM

I bet he puts a wrench on it in the first 2 hours he owns it. lol
Congrats Barnboy

BarnBoy

04-22-2021, 11:15 PM

You're not going to know how to handle that.

You're right, I may just tear it down for $hits and giggles....can't leave well enough alone anyway.

BarnBoy

04-22-2021, 11:16 PM

I bet he puts a wrench on it in the first 2 hours he owns it. lol
Congrats Barnboy

I guarantee ya! Something wrong with that? Lol

BarnBoy

04-24-2021, 09:43 PM

Ok so I haven't put a wrench on it yet but I'll need to lol. Guy didn't clean the carb like he said, because turns out he didn't have a kit for it. Battery is supposed to be good but there's a connection issue or blown fuse maybe. Also the tank is not as spotless as I though, but still pretty decent. Won't take much to be nice though.

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350for350

04-25-2021, 08:20 PM

Over all, it looks pretty nice to me.

patriot1

04-25-2021, 09:10 PM

Congrats! Nice score!

BarnBoy

04-27-2021, 10:18 PM

Thanks fellas, had some time this evening and I finally got everything prepped to take down to the powdercoater. Next update should be freshly coated parts!!!

Missed out on probably one of my dream bikes, a super rough basket case 86 350x. Needed a total new frame, motor overhaul, and basically everything. But it was fairly complete. And it did run. Guy wanted $1000 for it, I was at work trying to message and didn't get back to him in time. It is what it is....honestly I wasn't excited for another huge project like that. As much as I'd like a 350x, I need to get my current plate licked first.

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jasong_10

04-28-2021, 08:58 PM

Sorry that you missed out on it. If the frame wasn't shot, that would be about what I'm looking for, that other thread on the 350x/300ex hybrid has me interested, lol.

BarnBoy

04-29-2021, 03:26 PM

It's a bummer but I didn't loose any sleep over it. I'm trying to get rid of stuff I a) don't need and b) will never have time to mess with. Want to pair my trikes down to the 2 200Ms, the 250r, and the 84 200X roller for an autoX swap. The rest ill keep any parts I need and sell the rest.. That 350x would just be another project I don't have time for but I wouldn't want to sell it either. That's what the sellers problem was, except I think he got hard up for cash or whatever and finally just decided it was time. I'd love a 300ex or 400ex swapped 350x though....that would be a blast.

jasong_10

04-29-2021, 10:12 PM

Yeah and I almost think I could build one of those hybrids cheaper than I could buy a nice 350x, lol.

BarnBoy

05-22-2021, 08:59 PM

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Well the parts are in with fresh powder!! Everything looks amazing, super stoked. And if you didn't know I had repaired the 200M frame you wouldn't be able to tell now...looks slick. Best part was, I sold all the extra parts and junk from that load of 200X's today for $400 and paid for my powdercoating!!! That was a good haul, paid $250 for the lot, sold $600 worth of parts and still am left with a nice 84 200X roller and enough parts to put it together plus some spares!! Now I just gotta repaint my motor, get the rest of the parts zinc plated, and put this thing together.

MrConcdid

05-22-2021, 09:41 PM

Wow, Looking great, you realize it will be nicer than factory at this point. lol

great job!
Mrc_builds

patriot1

05-22-2021, 09:43 PM

Awesome job! I have been wondering how this was going since you got your R and another running M. Awesome Job!!!

BarnBoy

05-22-2021, 11:44 PM

Yes sir Mr.C she's gonna be a beauty. It's only worth doing if you're gonna do it right, the first time.

Patriot, yeah not much time these days. The running 200M ended up being confiscated/sold to my brother. Which is fine, I can't ride 2 at the same time, and he'll enjoy it. 250r is strewn in pieces around the garage....I didn't powdercoat near as much stuff on it. Just the frame, swinger, hubs, and headlight guard. Would have been nice to do the rear axle, sprocket hub, foot pegs, and disc brake hub as well as the front hub but that was going to delay it even longer. It'll still look nice as is, and I may even have them PC'ed later when I get around to building it.

Dirtcrasher

06-03-2021, 07:37 PM

Awesome stuff Lane, all came out great! You must be psyched!!

Sorry I haven't been around much, overwhelmed ATM...

BarnBoy

06-13-2021, 08:21 PM

Awesome stuff Lane, all came out great! You must be psyched!!

Sorry I haven't been around much, overwhelmed ATM...

Thanks Steve, I'm ready to get this thing finished.

Got the motor stripped today. 3000 psi of boiling hot water peeled pretty much all the old paint off. I plugged the motor with some plugs I machined and they held great. Just on case I sprayed some wd40 down the intake and exhaust and spark plug hole and rolled it over. Hopefully nothing really got in anywhere else.

Now I need to figure out how to proceed, paint or leave bare.....anyone have experience leaving blasted aluminum bare? So far I've heard mixed results.

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ATC King

06-13-2021, 10:27 PM

It largely depends on salinity of the area atmosphere. Oklahoma, OK to leave bare, except anything bare aluminum needs to be polished. Vapor blasting would be the quickest way, but a finish of good-ol hand polishing would still be preferable.

In Arkansas and nearby areas, I've had good results with polished bare aluminum and prefer it to anything painted or coated, because of the constant humidity. Anything painted or coated that has the finish compromised to bare aluminum is ripe for corrosion under it and corrosion tracks are sure to appear and start popping off the layer. It may take a while, but it will ruin the finish and need completely stripped to redo.

The wheels on my truck are bare aluminum and take very little maintenance. I did spend a LOT of time with fine sandpaper, followed by a polishing compound during the first go. No way would I paint or coat them, because they would get chips and if I didn't seal the chip right away, corrosion would set in under the finish. All I ever have to do is bring out the hand polish to brighten them back up. If painted/or coated and they had corrosion, it'd require a total strip and repaint/recoat.

The absolute best thing for aluminum is anodizing. Wanna be the first (?) to anodize a complete ATC engine?

BarnBoy

06-20-2021, 10:28 AM

The absolute best thing for aluminum is anodizing. Wanna be the first (?) to anodize a complete ATC engine?

Honestly no because I do NOT want to take this thing back apart. In the future I definitely would consider it though. I'm probably going to give it a light polish by hand and leave bare. I do not want to spend the insane amount of time to do a proper polish job, but I don't really want to mess with painting it again either. I'll just keep it clean after riding.

The next engine I do will ABSOLUTELY be vapor blasted, id do it to this one if I wouldn't have to pull it all apart again.

BarnBoy

06-20-2021, 12:36 PM

We are making progress. Got the freshly powdered triples installed with tapered roller stem bearings. And the skid plate bolted on. Every nut and bolt is going to be replaced brand new or NOS if it's an odd size, so I need to order some more hardware.

I have a small batch of parts to take to the powdercoater,trailpro mostly stuff I was gonna get zinc plated and decided why not just get it powdercoated too. I got the rims, front hub, and a few other odds and ends I decided I'd like to get coated too.trailpro

Goal is to make this a rolling chassis, then go from there but it will be nice when it can finally roll around. Ordered a new set of tires too....I wanted Maxxis Zillas but they recently discontinued the 25x12x9 size, so I just got some ITP mud lites instead. Thought about bear claws but they look a lot stiffer than mud lites, I didn't want something too rough of a ride. And I got a deestone knobby for the front.

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BarnBoy

06-23-2021, 09:27 PM

New set of boots arrived! May be 3 weeks out on powder so might be a bit before I get them mounted. Meanwhile I get to figure out what to do with my engine, paint or not.

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BarnBoy

07-07-2021, 10:38 PM

Well I've had a bunch of time the past week or 2.to get stiff done. Started a new job about a month ago, usually we work 5-3:30, but this week we are on 8's so I get off at 1:30pm. Pretty awesome, feels like I have half my day left!! But unfortunately this is a rare occurrence so I'm trying to make the best of the extra time. Powder should be finished this week, still waiting on a few parts from here and there. All these little NOS rubber bushings and hardware add up!! I'm going all yellow zinc hardware, as much as possible.

Cleaned up the airbox with soap and hot water, then used a Turtle Wax product for plastic restoration to wipe and rub on. Worked great so far, shines it right up and gives it a real slick finish, dirt shouldn't stick and it really makes it look brand new.

Next step is getting wiring harness figured out and all that little stuff finished, as well as painting the motor. I'm just gonna be happy when she rolls on all 3!! Stay tuned!!

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BarnBoy

07-16-2021, 11:24 PM

Got my powder coat stuff back and tires mounted. Specifically told the tire guys to watch it with my fresh powder on the rims....said yeah no prob but when I picked them up there's a couple pretty good size dings and chips in the powder. I realize trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro happens, but sheesh....is it that hard to not rush through a job and just pay attention?

Anyway, I gotta modify my bearing carrier and get it repowdered as it doesent fit quite right yet. THEN I can get this thing rolling on 3 wheels, hopefully.

And I should have the motor painted here in a little while. Will update with info on that too.

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BarnBoy

07-24-2021, 08:04 PM

Ok so still waiting on powder, had to modify my bearing carrier for it to fit perfectly so it needs recoated. Whenever I get.my stuff coated I ask for a bit of "touch-up" powder in a bag. A little powder mixed.with some MEK makes basically a powder touchup paint so to speaks. The MEK softens the powder and existing powder on the part and creates a great touch up medium. Of course what I had to do on the carrier required a recoat

Waiting on a front brake drum dust seal and the front end will be assembled.

Rolled my wheels up beside the bike to get a rough idea....its gonna be sweet. Also got the wiring harness repaired and completely rewrapped with 3M super 88 electrical tape. Had to get a few bullet terminals and a crimper to fix the taillight wiring and a few other damaged connectors. Thanks to PS2Fixer for his help with that.

Apparently I can't post pictures on here...I have no idea why.

BarnBoy

07-24-2021, 10:14 PM

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Ok finally got the pics to attach. Progress is soooo sloooowww. It's hot and I don't have much motivation. I just wanna ride!!!

ATC King

07-24-2021, 10:38 PM

That's going to be a really nice hardtail. Do you have a lot of gravel roads and smooth trails to enjoy it on?

BarnBoy

07-25-2021, 09:38 AM

That's going to be a really nice hardtail. Do you have a lot of gravel roads and smooth trails to enjoy it on?

Thanks! Yeah, sorta. Plenty of gravel roads around, not too many trails right nearby but some within an hr or 2 drive. I plan of riding this thing a bunch, not abusing it but it's not meant to be a garage queen. Might get it out to little sahara and putt around sometime.

ATC King

07-25-2021, 09:27 PM

If you ever have a hankering to come to Arkansas, we have a lot of gravel roads with mountainous views that are aptly suited for hardtail cruising.

BarnBoy

08-07-2021, 10:48 PM

Cool, I'll keep that in mind King.

Ok, so I got everything back from PC yesterday. Even got the seat latch hardware coated. Good news is that the rear carrier finally fits and articulates the full range of chain adjustment. BUT, because of a slight difference in the size of the threaded boss on the carrier the chain case no longer fits. Anyone just run without a chain case? I know I got them all powdered and stuff, but tons of other bikes, trikes, and ATV's run without a chain case. Yeah I know it's not stock but at this point I've modified enough things I'm not concerned about that.

I did manage to get the front end together....front brakes are dragging quite a bit just sitting in there. Hoping things loosen up once I get it rolling. Also got the handlebars on, thanks again to JWheeler for a MINT set of used bars. They are off a 185/200S so I'll have to modify my bar end caps to fit like they do on the 200M but that shouldn't be a problem. Got the dash cleaned up very nicely too! Had a bunch of paint splatter all over it, but was able to remove that and restore the shine with some turtlewax trim restorer.

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patriot1

08-08-2021, 07:27 PM

Barnboy:

You have come this far and I am sooo ready for you to be finished with this thing but I would put the chain guard on it if at all possible. You have modified a lot maybe but it's mostly original.

Also: King is correct. I just had my first trip to the Ouachita National Forrest outside of Mena, AR. Although my ride was shortened, it was the best and I'll be back soon. I rode my 81 200 because I knew it wouldn't let me down. No problems being a hardtail and while among the $25,000 side by sides at Little Missouri Falls-my 81 "OG" got all the smiles and attention.

BarnBoy

08-09-2021, 03:11 PM

Well the problem is I didn't even consider trying to fit it with the new carrier, because it's not THAT much different than the stock carrier. That said the threaded mounting boss is just a bit too wide and it's not quite lining up the way it's supposed to. Besides I'm not really sure how necessary it is....tons of bikes run without them. Seems like it'd be easier to maintain without the case too. I understand what you're saying I'm just not sure it's worth the hassle.

Cool, Arkansas is definitely on my list then. Along with little sahara whenever I get the 250R finished.

patriot1

08-10-2021, 10:32 PM

BarnBoy

08-11-2021, 12:04 PM

I understand your frustration and you are right-chain guards are not necessary.

Little Sahara is my "one day" goal! I asked some guys from OK about it over the past weekend.

I hate the new carrier isn't right.

Yep supposed to be a blast.

It's not that the carrier isn't right, it will work fine just needs some adjustments if I make another.

On the same note, what would you guys pay for a custom disk brake conversion carrier? I can make it fit the chain case easily, just need to modify the mounting nut. I've got @ $50-60 just in material...the tube is expensive. Plus I'd say a couple hrs labor at least, welding, boring on the lathe and milling. Add $35 to powdercoat. I could set it up to where I had a caliper and bearings and hardware to mount it up. Parts alone for a kit like that would easily be $100+.

350for350

08-11-2021, 08:41 PM

It's starting to sound like you guys should get a group ride going in Arkansas.

BarnBoy

08-11-2021, 09:28 PM

It's starting to sound like you guys should get a group ride going in Arkansas.

I'm down, once I can get something rideable lol. I'm a perfectionist, I just can't halfazz anything. If it's coming apart, why not use new hardware, paint, PC, etc etc etc. That's why it takes me so long to do anything. That and waiting on said parts.

MotorCity

08-13-2021, 09:02 AM

BarnBoy

08-13-2021, 10:00 PM

Barnboy, read this entire thread this morning over coffee. Really enjoyed it. Being a former welder / fabricator, I really enjoyed your reverse engineering, cad work, and the actual finished product on the rear disc conversion. The engine build was thoughtful and looks great. Looking forward to the final product. I bought a 1984 200m couple years back , and gave it to my buddy who lives in northern Michigan, who has 8 acres of land, and was a former rider of a 1985 Honda atc 250r...he was awesome on that thing back in the day. I kept busting his balls, why he didnt have a machine to have fun on his property, which includes some nice hills and mud. Anyway, bought him the 200m, now we have a kick ass track set up on his property...he rocks on that 200m, kicks my ass on my big red 250es....we have an absolute blast when I go up and visit him. Love these old school honda 3-wheelers. Best of luck as you finish your 200m.

Thank you sir, that was my hope in documenting this build. Trying to keep it entertaining and informative. Lots of time has gone into this, and I'm really ready for it to be done soon.

No overtime scheduled for next week at work means I should be able to bust ass and get SOMETHING done. Goal is to have motor ready to paint, and a bunch of wiring and small stuff on the frame completed. Still waiting on a rear axle before it'll be a roller though.

Been running a Barber Coleman 16-16 Hob at work thus week on some shafts. Neat machine, simple yet I don't know how someone first came up with the idea. I think I need one...imagine the axles and countershafts, etc that could be made or repaired!!??

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BarnBoy

08-15-2021, 09:16 AM

Got my recoil back together yesterday. Holy crap, I have never had this much trouble getting a spring wound into a housing before. FINALLY got it done. Looks brand new! Powdercoated housing and I restored the rubber HONDA cover.

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Got the fuel tank boxed up, going to send to Brad Mitchell at ATC Tanks and Decals. Heard good things about him and seen a few of his tanks in person...they look mint. I could have painted it here with a buddy, but then I'd need decals, etc. Plus the time to do it all, Brad will do all of that stuff. Here are a couple before pics. I had new decals installed 5 years ago, the tank is in great shape but since I'm doing this amount of work to it why not get it redone.

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350for350

08-16-2021, 09:50 PM

I'm down, once I can get something rideable lol. I'm a perfectionist, I just can't halfazz anything. If it's coming apart, why not use new hardware, paint, PC, etc etc etc. That's why it takes me so long to do anything. That and waiting on said parts.

Depending on the details, I may be wanting to go along too.

patriot1

08-17-2021, 01:23 PM

It's not far from KS. Wonderful place to ride.

BarnBoy

08-18-2021, 12:52 PM

Depending on the details, I may be wanting to go along too.

Come on out man. I'm just hoping I get a trike together this year lol.

350for350

08-19-2021, 09:50 PM

It's not far from KS. Wonderful place to ride.

I live in Northwest Kansas. For reference, I've been told that it's a 7 hour drive from here to The Grand Lake of The Cherokees. Not that I'd let a long drive deter me mind you. I don't do well in heat plus high humidity these days so summer time would be out for me. I prefer camping so winter time would be out. Spring and fall would be the best for me. I'm single and don't have much family left anymore so holidays would probably be a go for me too. I'm not completely inexperienced in the type of riding around Arkansas. Although I've never ridden there, I have ridden at Chadwick once before plus I do love going to Colorado to ride in the mountains there.

BarnBoy

08-30-2021, 07:00 PM

Got both of my 200M carbs at flyingW for rebuild/restore. I never could get the one carb to work properly, and I don't have a bead blaster so it was worth it to just send them out and let someone else take care of it. Brad has my tank, I expect it back in about 3-4 weeks.

I also have a line on a NOS axle thanks to Jwheeler, excited for that as I'll finally have this thing rolling. Can't say enough about Jeff and all his help.

Also getting paint ordered for my motor and gonna try and get that done within the next month. Just need some time and cooler weather for motivation!!

BarnBoy

09-18-2021, 10:33 PM

Paint is on the way and 2 NOS axles are on the way. That will be a big step, also have a master cylinder and other parts coming and trying to get that all lined out. Carbs are back from FlyingW and he did an awesome job. My brothers 84 is running mint now. Been working on it some lately. It needs:

-Fork rebuild
-disc brake conversion on the rear
-new battery
-fuel tank cleaning

Then it'll be good to hit the trails. Actually I got the front brakes working tonight, and tuned everything up cause I'm going to need it next week. Got a tractor to haul outta the bush. It's down a steep hill a ways off the road and the trail is too narrow and rough to take my truck. Gonna use another tractor and have the 3 wheeler to run back and forth between the pickup and tractor to haul tools and save getting worn out walking all that way back and forth.

350for350

09-19-2021, 08:31 PM

That's a good plan. It even has an excuse to ride a trike built in.

BarnBoy

09-20-2021, 08:05 AM

That's a good plan. It even has an excuse to ride a trike built in.

Exactly! Why not? Lol

patriot1

09-20-2021, 08:41 PM

Barnboy is back!! I have been wondering about this for the past few days lol. Pics when available please sir?

Dirtcrasher

09-27-2021, 05:59 PM

Barnboy is back!! I have been wondering about this for the past few days lol. Pics when available please sir?

He's got a great job now with room for advancement. I told him what happens with jobs and try to help him avoid the things I've been thru and or seen happen to other people...

BarnBoy

10-01-2021, 03:13 PM

So I've got a ton of pictures I'd like to post, but for some reason I havent been able to get them to upload via my phone. And I don't have easy access to a desktop so I need to figure something out!

Been ordering a ton of parts and just getting stuff in for when I have time to work on it. Got some decals from Blueline Decals, NOS Helm and Son rear axles from JWheeler, got a left hand master cylinder coming also for my disc brake conversion. Lots of little stuff, guy who was gonna help me paint my motor got in a bad wreck so that's delayed.

Yep Steve work has been busy, working tomorrow also, couldn't turn down double time lol. Don't worry I'll be getting it done soon, it's coming together.

BarnBoy

10-20-2021, 07:30 AM

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For some reason I still am having trouble uploading photos. Got one of my tank to upload, it's finished and on the way! Also got the rear end finished, brand new EBC rotor, custom brake line from Raymond Chan @ Apex Brake Lines. And a brand new Kawasaki kfx90 left hand master cylinder. *should* be getting the engine painted within the next couple weeks, that will be a big step!!

350for350

10-20-2021, 07:16 PM

That tank looks great.

MrConcdid

10-21-2021, 08:10 PM

Its going to be nicer than when it was new!

Way to go buddy

BarnBoy

10-22-2021, 12:53 PM

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Yes sir it is. I believe it will be the nicest 200M in existence. Scary thing is a was tallying up in my head how much $$ I've spent on this thing. Without even looking at the bike I racked up $3k just off the top of my head. I have a problem! Here's a pic of where it's at now. For some reason it seems to load single pictures ok but I can't load more than 1.

BarnBoy

10-22-2021, 12:54 PM

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Disc brake rear end. There's also more $$ in that rear end than I care to admit.

350for350

10-22-2021, 09:57 PM

DO NOT even try to figure out how much you've spent on a project like this one. You'll be happier if you don't know.

BarnBoy

10-22-2021, 10:19 PM

DO NOT even try to figure out how much you've spent on a project like this one. You'll be happier if you don't know.

I mean at this point I've come way too far to not finish this thing out properly. In my opinion it's not worth doing unless you're gonna do it right the first time. I'm ok with spending money on that. Just kinda makes me stop and think for a second lol.

ATC King

10-23-2021, 12:27 PM

Good to see you're getting near completion on this. Are you going to put all the pictures into a photo gallery?

350for350

10-23-2021, 08:25 PM

I don't mind spending money on something like this either. I just don't want to know how much I've spent. What's that saying? Ignorance is bliss?:D

BarnBoy

10-24-2021, 11:07 PM

Good to see you're getting near completion on this. Are you going to put all the pictures into a photo gallery?

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Yes I plan to, whenever I can take the time to find and upload them all. Ignorance is indeed bliss, but I'm still slightly curious LOL. Got my tank back from Brad, it's looking AMAZING. So happy with how it makes the bike look.

patriot1

10-25-2021, 08:33 AM

Looks awesome. I am ready to see it finished too

BarnBoy

10-30-2021, 08:22 PM

Spent some time working on the exhaust today. It's hard because I don't have 1.25 dies for our bender. Using a cutoff wheel and TIG welder I pie cut and modified the header to where it kinda sorta fits. Not entirely satisfied with how it turned out and I have a lot more fabricating to do if I'm gonna make this work. I checked around to see if anyone else makes aftermarket exhaust that will fit my 200M. I know DG and cobra used to have options on ebay, but I can't for the life of me find any available. Anyone know where I might be able to find one? I'd love to make this supertrapp 200X exhaust work but it's gonna be a ton of work.

ATC King

10-31-2021, 12:46 PM

BarnBoy

10-31-2021, 05:56 PM

If you're going to work to make that Trapp fit, it'd be a good idea to get it back past the fender. If it's under and near the plastic it'll soot it up and possibly burn it.

You can put a shield on to stop a lot or most of those issues. https://supertrapp.com/supertrapp-405-2120-4-inch-coverage-exhaust-shield-120-deg-stainless-steel

https://supertrapp.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/80aef0d03404e7ad120485a49aebaab2/4/0/405-2120-pi_4.jpg

There's a 360 degree shield available too. They help deflect the gases back and away.

Thanks King, I'll be doing that. With as much work as I'm doing I'm not sure I wouldn't be better off just buying a new Supertrapp pipe off eBay and buying mandrel bent tube and fabbing my own pipe. I think I need to shorten my header a bit more to clear the frame the way Id like and I think I'll be able to use it. Would make life somewhat easier. Will post pics soon so what I'm saying all makes sense.

ATC King

10-31-2021, 08:32 PM

The mandrel pipe bend kits are great. Those make fabing up an exhaust a lot easier and the ones I've seen are relatively affordable in aluminized or stainless. Purchasing a manual (impact gun) pipe expanding kit takes that even farther, but even the inexpensive ones that are worth a toot are over $100. Need to do a few exhausts to pay for one of those or a complete car/truck dual exhaust.

If you're going with a new muffler to fab it all up, you could use just about any of the universal ATV/motorcycle ones. My preference is for the Supertrapp sound though. The ability to tune it with the discs is nice and they are an USFS approved spark arrestor, which even if you don't ride in areas where it's legally needed it's always nice to not have to worry about it.

The Trapps are spendy though, considering the actual muffler isn't anything more than a typical straight-through glasspack. The discs on the end are really the only thing different and they aren't directly responsible for sound attenuation. If you get a new one or even have the old one apart, you may want to look into using stainless steel wool instead of fiberglass packing. Regular muffler maintenance is kind of an idiotic concept.

BarnBoy

11-22-2021, 10:42 PM

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Just gonna leave this here...more to come but folks its getting somewhere!! I need more motivation, time to get this thing done!!

ATC King

11-23-2021, 09:41 AM

https://c.tenor.com/vTkwcU_PVMwAAAAC/workout-rat.gif

BarnBoy

11-24-2021, 01:23 PM

Yeah thats what I'm talking about King!

So I picked up my motor, instructions say dry to touch in 4 hrs, safe to handle after 24. I gave it like 30 in a garage with the heater running full blast and got it last night. Kinda wish I had let it sit another day, and gone over it with a heat gun to get it as cured as possible. It still seems a tad soft, hope I didn't mess it up but it was in a friend's garage and he needed his space back. Needs to be brought to 300° for 15 mins for final cure...I'm not comfortable handling it enough to install now so I'm gonna try and cook it before I install. I know a guy with a powder coating oven, if I can convince him to fire it up for me I may just cook it in there.for an hr if we can regulate the temp to 300°. I really don't wanna get hotter than that.

patriot1

11-27-2021, 12:52 PM

I'm glad you are still on it! Keep going!

BarnBoy

11-27-2021, 10:16 PM

Update on the motor, the local guy will cook it in his powdercoating oven for me Monday. Won't take much to have it installed and plumbed in after that. Still need to figure out if I can run my original intake or if it's cracked. Also need to finish the wiring.

Got working on the exhaust today, was sorting through a couple different options until I stumbled across a header pipe off some parts bike I used to have. Forgot I kept the exhaust, I think it had an aluminum ANSWER pipe that went with it. Anyway, it's all trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro that's obsolete but it actually came really close to fitting on my 200M. So out came the cutoff wheel and I started whacking up this unobtainium header to try and make it fit. Pretty darn happy how it turned out actually. Got the supertrapp mounted where I want it, low enough to clear the mudflap. Alls that's left is to fab the tubing back to the header and it's done.

For some reason I am having trouble attaching pictures, will try and get some up.

BarnBoy

11-27-2021, 10:20 PM

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Here we go....weird how they won't upload the normal way

MrConcdid

11-27-2021, 10:27 PM

how did you upload? I cant

BarnBoy

11-28-2021, 12:28 AM

how did you upload? I cant

I'm on a cell phone, since it wouldn't load full res I took a screenshot of the photo and then it would load. Not sure why but it got the job done.

BarnBoy

12-12-2021, 10:39 PM

Got my motor cooked and the side covers painted. Still waiting on a couple seals before I can reassemble. Still have some wiring to finish also.

My cousin sent me down 2 83 200E motors and asked me to build 1 good one. One is complete, the other he tore down. The complete one looks like a goober has already been in it based on the orange rtv peeking out of everywhere, so I decided to try and piece together the basket case original motor he sent me. It ran amazingly, just started leaking oil between the cases somehow so I need to clean em up and inspect. It's not getting the perfect BarnBoy treatment, it's getting only what it needs and going back together. He used a screwdriver to pry the cases apart too though, so I'll need to repair a few spots. Some Yamabond might suffice however. Should be back together quicker than my 200M lol, gonna get him to buy me a laundry list of parts and go to town.

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BarnBoy

12-17-2021, 10:12 PM

Well making progress on both projects, got a load of parts coming in for the 200E tonight. Cases are cleaned and stripped, valves lapped and head is going back together. Resurfaced the head and cylinder deck with some 220 grit paper. Have a cast surface plate that came off a mitutoyo height gauge, salvaged from work makes a great flay surface for lapping. Turned out great!

200M is waiting on final painting of the side covers, hopefully happening tomorrow. Then it'll go back together and in the bike finally!!

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Also, my grandfather came to visit last week...first time in over 2 years due to covid. He is the original owner, I wish I had it running for him but we got a picture of where it's at now! Next time I hope he can ride it!

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knappyfeet

12-18-2021, 05:00 PM

So cool your Grandpa was there......I'm sure he's proud

350for350

12-18-2021, 09:22 PM

How did your grandpa react when he saw it?

BarnBoy

12-19-2021, 05:56 PM

Yep, he thought it was pretty neat. Said it looks better than when he bought it from the dealer! Like I said I wish he could have ridden it, but hopefully next time he will be able to.

patriot1

12-19-2021, 07:27 PM

Good job! Awesome that he enjoyed it!

BarnBoy

12-25-2021, 07:20 PM

UPDATE:

Motor is in!!! Need to touch up a few scratches from installation but its finally in there! Looks amazing too, still a long way to go with all the little bits and pieces but I'm taking this win. Also got the trans/crank and cases back together on my cousins 200E. Been a productive day, no dilly dallying anymore Ive got to get this stuff done.

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BarnBoy

01-19-2022, 11:06 PM

Well, I wasn't entirely satisfied with the performance of the 200X Supertrapp I fabricated to fit my 200m. Did the test running on my brothers 200M. So I decided to get a nice brand new Supertrapp and be done with it...hopefully. Picked up this 4" Aluminum racing series universal pipe. It's a beautiful piece, however the smallest ID I could find was 1.5" ID inlet with a 1.75" core. This is going to be fed by a 1.125" ID header pipe. Does anybody have experience with different exhausts on a 200 similar to this?? I don't want to have something too large to where it's super noisy and no back pressure. I know it's got the baffles to tune it, will that help with this issue?

Also it's gonna be pretty close to the tire where I have to mount it. Maybe 1.5" clearance if I'm lucky. This trike isn't gonna be a beater but it's still gonna get ridden...anyone see any issues with this or will the aluminum pipe stay cool enough not to worry about? I think this is gonna be the icing on the cake for this bike. Disc brakes, supertrapp, fresh paint and powder coat....gonna be the nicest hardtail around!

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350for350

01-20-2022, 09:48 PM

As long as your engine is jetted right, you keep moving, and you're not riding in first gear under a heavy load for looong periods of time, I think you'll be ok with that exhaust set up. You'll constantly have a different spot on the tire next to the exhaust while you're moving, and the air flowing past the muffler will help to draw the heat away. It's also the part of the exhaust that's farthest away from the head on the engine so it will also be the coolest part of the exhaust. As for the sound, I think that the fewer discs that you are running, the quieter it will be and the more back pressure it will have. There's probably a minimum number of discs that you have to run, but beyond that, it will be up to you how you run it.

ZacH_GrifF

01-21-2022, 12:15 AM

I have a DG exhaust on my 185s/x hybrid build and I can ride hard all day and I can still grab the muffler barehanded I don’t think it’ll heat the tire up much at all

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ATC King

01-21-2022, 12:32 AM

It'll be fine if you run a 360 heat shield on it. Otherwise, you need to move it back more. With all the metal work you've done so far, moving it back six inches isn't a big deal.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. zDLxFBPQ6ZAlC23Gqw-dXwHaFj%26pid%3DApi&f=1

Size will be fine also. the head pipe will play the biggest role. After that, the Trapp is adjustable enough that it won't make a difference. Too few of discs can certainly cause a problem, but you won't be able to add too many. I wouldn't run any less than five, and that'll probably affect the top end power while boosting off-idle torque and responsiveness. No idea though, you'll just have to try different amount of discs.

How many did it come with? 12?

ATC King

01-21-2022, 10:01 AM

I have a DG exhaust on my 185s/x hybrid build and I can ride hard all day and I can still grab the muffler barehanded I don’t think it’ll heat the tire up much at all

With the Supertrapp, the exhaust doesn't exit out the back, that's a dead end. It exits out the sides all around. The heat of the can is irrelevant here.

ZacH_GrifF

01-21-2022, 11:20 AM

With the Supertrapp, the exhaust doesn't exit out the back, that's a dead end. It exits out the sides all around. The heat of the can is irrelevant here.

Ah yea makes sense

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BarnBoy

01-23-2022, 12:10 AM

Haven't checked in for a couple days, ended up getting it fabricated today. Took longer than I expected but it's finished now. I fit it all up on my other 84 200M, since it's more accessible and no fancy powdercoat to ding up. Turns out the frames are not identical so I had to do some tweeking of my Trapp mount to get it to fit perfectly on mine. Oh well. Header pipe is some random one i had laying around that fit really close. Slightly larger than stock...maybe a hair over 1" ID. Mid pipe is made from a chopped up 200X supertrapp header pipe, and I used the lathe to make ends to adapt to the 1.5" inlet of the Trapp, and used the mill to slot the other end for a clamp. That tubing turns like trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro, but messing with my speed and feed and some cutting oil I got it to turn out ok.

Ok King, so I can't really move it back any further because of the trailer hitch support. If I shift it enough to clear the hitch support it'll be like half an inch from the tire. I want more clearance than that so stuff isn't getting stuck in between or whatever. So they way I have it the exhaust will be hitting that hitch support but not much i can do about that.

It came with 8 discs actually. I need one of those 360 degree shields I think. I didn't see them listed on their website, but found one on Pegasus racing. Cannot freaking believe they are $50 for that little piece of stainless. Unreal....should be like a $20 part TOPS

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ATC King

01-23-2022, 12:00 PM

Cannot freaking believe they are $50 for that little piece of stainless. Unreal....should be like a $20 part TOPS

Yeah, the price is ridiculous. There's actually some Chinese Supertrapp knock-off stuff out there though. I'm not certain about a Chinese version of that heat shield, but some of the mufflers are on Amazon and Ebay.

I'm not a fan of the Chinese copy and pasting other people's work, but that 'Made in America' sales pitch has a limit, especially when it's the same product they've been kicking out for decades but they've made vast improvements on the price.

350for350

01-23-2022, 09:50 PM

BarnBoy

01-24-2022, 09:56 PM

This certainly showed more than your post on Honda Hoarders did. It's looking really good. I don't remember, but you are planning to rejet aren't you? Hopefully, you'll be ready to ride this trike soon.

Was just showing it off on Facebook, if people want more details theyre welcome to message me, but I like to do most of that in the forum build thread.

Yep, definitely have to rejet. Have to figure that all out when i get it running. Currently looking for a clean uncracked intake manifold. All mine seem to have cracks in the plastic. Tried one of the cheap ones off ebay but it doesent fit. I could build my own from aluminum but I really dont think its worth the time LOL.

ATC King, havent found a chinese copy yet. Wish I could, I guess Ill have to pony up for the Supertrapp shield....which is exactly why the price stays high.

ATC King

01-25-2022, 11:05 AM

I haven't found any lower priced shields either.

Empi is one of the knock-off brands though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194073001579?hash=item2d2fa6fe6b:g:XfUAAOSw6clgiWl E

The price difference is large between the Empi and Supertrapp, but they look like the same thing. These aren't complicated designs or difficult to manufacture.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143987531500?epid=1930440313&hash=item2186535eec:g:WBwAAOSwqXhgW6gm
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qV0AAOSwRolcY417/s-l1600.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/311844501741?hash=item489b6178ed:g:So8AAOSwMtxXvdF 9

Here's some 4" Empi discs. I don't know if they're interchangable with the Trapp, but the price is about half.https://www.ebay.com/itm/224483899449?hash=item3444487839:g:qV0AAOSwRolcY41 7
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qV0AAOSwRolcY417/s-l1600.jpg

MrConcdid

01-25-2022, 06:55 PM

That's the cleanest 200m in the country. Awesome job

BarnBoy

01-25-2022, 10:31 PM

Interesting, if I had known about Empi I may have just gone that route. Only con is the 2" core for such a small motor, but being tuneable that may not be a big deal. The Trapp is a beautiful piece, and aluminum. I'm happy with it, but the cores and discs are way too much.

Here's what I came up with for my head and mid pipe. It's a 200x head pipe, as fat as I felt like I could go without being too closest the frame up front. Hoping my end works well for the mid/head pipe connection. I turned it down and slotted it on the mill, hoping with a good stainless band clamp and a crush gasket it'll seal up well.

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patriot1

01-26-2022, 10:32 AM

Awesome job! Top Tier build for sure!!

BarnBoy

02-15-2022, 10:31 PM

Little update, finally got the exhaust setup painted and installed. Used some ptfe sealing tape as a gasket....hopefully it works cause it was kinda $$$. Pretty happy with how it turned out actually. After I welded my original mount on the Trapp I decided I didnt like it mounted solid like that. No cushioning from any vibration, I just felt that I was gonna crack the mount or more likely the pipe around the weld. So, I found a vibration isolator mount to use and I think it will do the trick. Yes I am aware that this is a compression mount, its also 60 durometer high heat with a shear rating of 40 lbs. It will probably last as long as I do. The mount I originally welded on was not big enough to drill out for a grommet setup. I just turned a quick spacer and offset the mount 3/4", badabing badaboom. I did make my mount larger so in the event this doesent hold up for some reason I will be able to drill it larger and use a grommet if necessary. But I think it will work just fine.

Got a crack free intake, and working on one last battery cable with PS2fixer and itll be a runner!

edit: Why the heck cant I post pictures.....trying to do this off a real computer and im having issues. do we have any tech support on site anymore??

BarnBoy

02-16-2022, 06:30 AM

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Let's see how this works. For some reason the only way I am able to post pics is if I screenshot the original. Maybe my photos are too high resolution or something.

patriot1

05-20-2022, 01:01 PM

Barnboy:

We need an update...

BarnBoy

05-26-2022, 09:33 PM

Barnboy:

We need an update...

Update!! I found a good deal so I bought a house and am going to be making some more changes here in the next couple of months, so I have not hardly gotten anything done on the 200M. I really only need to finish the wiring, fuel, and its ready to fire up. Not sure when that will be though...just had so much going on. I work 5am-6 or 7 basically every day of the week between work and the house, and then all weekend. Sold my 200X roller, probably gonna sell my other 185s and 200e because I dont have time for them. I plan to keep as many parts as I can, along with the 200M and 250R. Yeah the R is basically in storage now lol. So the trike projects are kinda going sideways at the moment...I feel kinda stupid that a little 3 wheeler project has taken like 3+ years now and its still not done yet. But unfortunately priorities take over the fun stuff sometimes. My biggest mistake was probably getting sidetracked on the plastics. I learned really quick that there is no such thing as a quick sanding job on those things lol. A friend is supposed to be helping me get them finished soon. Also I need a battery cable which ps2fixer was supposed to make for me. But he has kind of dropped off the radar, been months since I heard from him. Havent got on here in a while, glad I checked back and that some people are still interested in an old 200M build!!