1985 BIG RED electrical problems

[Shawn72]

Hey fellows I need some help here. I was riding my 85 BR and stopped for a rest. Got back on and nothing. The headlight will come on and that's it. No spark, No electric start, or anything. I bypassed the start switch and Put a new OEM ignition in it. Battery is good. Still nothing. Any suggestions?

[Gabriel]

'85, so that's a 250 right?

[big specht]

No neutral light ? You check your fuses?

[ps2fixer]

Would be good to 100% validate it's a ATC250ES, the tag on the neck of the frame should say that machine model. So many people call every red 3 wheeler a big red when nearly all of them were red.

I agree with big specht though, is your neutral light on (validates it's in neutral and the neutral switch is working)? Also since your headlight is turning on, the fuses should be good since the power goes though both fuses and the 3rd is only for the aux plug. If no neutral like, make sure the bulb isn't blown, could put the machine in reverse to validate the reverse light works, then swap the bulbs and test that way. If you have a multi-meter, they are very handy for testing electrical problems. Like you could have tested your ignition switch before replacing it since it's just 2 separated switches inside.

How did you "bypass" the start switch? It's just a basic switch. I've only heard of people jumping the two big lugs on the starter solenoid to bypass the whole start circuit. Doesn't do too well on the screwdriver or whatever you use to jump it, and every time it arcs a bit on the solenoid. Over time the solenoid would be damaged using it that way. A better way is to provide 12v power to the two little wires on the solenoid to test if it's working or not, but that's a bit ahead of the game from our first questions.

Going off the deep end, but my guess is the machine isn't in neutral, or the neutral/reverse sub harness isn't getting a good connection on the neutral/reverse switches (right side bottom of side cover under the metal cover). The actual neutral/reverse switches I'm pretty sure rarely fail, again they are able to be tested with a multi meter but the light trick works well if the wiring is good.

If you have a multi-meter and know the basics of how to use it for ohm testing. Check the starter solenoid Green/Red wire to engine/frame/battery ground. It should have near 0 ohm (dead short) reading when the machine is in neutral. The yellow/red wire is the "hot" wire, so it's best to test it if voltage is there or not (aka black lead to battery negative, red in yellow/red connector). The yellow/red wire should have power with the key on and starter button pressed. These tests would validate which side of the circuit has issues, or if both sides are good we could test the solenoid directly.

Either case, good luck with the diag work.

Also I suspect no spark is via kick starting. The CDI won't allow spark unless it sees it's in neutral which the neutral light is tied into the same circuit, so a lot of stuff points to the machine not in neutral, or an issue with the wiring/neutral switch.

Here's what the neutral/reverse sub harness looks like stock.

http://shop.passion-atc.com/catalog/images/H250ES-062.jpg

This is my reproduction harness version of it if yours has a bad connection or if the rubber insulator is completely shot. You also have the option of buying another used harness, but wiring doesn't hold up too well when it's exposed to oil for years and it seems like most are oil covered.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/201749831957

[Shawn72]

Yes...........

[Shawn72]

The bulb has been out in the Neutral switch, So it's actually never came on. Yes checked the fuses. So if the neutral switch is bad will it prevent spark also?

[Shawn72]

Yes it is a 250 ES. Yes I'm sure it's in neutral. tThe neutral/reverse light has never worked. I'll replace the bulb and that should help. I bypassed the run/off switch by taking it apart and hard wiring the 2 wires together. I tried the electric start but it was dead. I tried to kick start and that's when I found no spark after connecting a spark tester. Sounds like everything is pointing at the Neutral switch. So from what you said, the neutral switch will defeat the electric start and prevent spark while kicking it correct?

[ps2fixer]

Well #1 thing to do, undo your bypass. If you have the black/white wired to ground (green wire), it won't ever get spark because you permanently wired it to be off. At least that's true if I'm assuming the correct two wires are wired together.

The starter solenoid's ground connection runs though the neutral switch (it grounds when it's in neutral). Also the CDI has that wire to sense it's in neutral to allow spark. Getting the neutral light replaced would validate if the switch is good. It's possible there's a broken wire, bad connection etc, but it seems to point at the neutral safety switch. So yes the neutral switch can cause those problems, but it's not the only possible thing. A cut wire that runs to the neutral safety switch would do the same thing.

FYI, even with the kill switch set to off, it should still crank via electric start, it would just be telling the CDI to not spark.