Picked up Honda Big Red this weekend...snorkel?

[Pierce1989]

Good morning everyone! Picked up this '83 Honda ATC 200E this weekend for $250. It's in rough shape, missing seat, dry rotted tires, hubs may not be usable, air filter nasty and missing top and rubber boot to carb, gastank nasty inside, missing drain plug. It has good compression and after tinkering some got the engine to start. Ordered new Amazon chinese carb, front and rear bearings, and tubes so I can put my other tires on if the hubs don't crumble when I try to remove the dry-rotted tires already on them. Total investment so far is $250 + $115 parts, so it seems like a good deal so far.

Since I'd need an airbox top and rubber boot, I am considering just snorkeling it right off the bat. I've seen some threads about snorkeling through the left side of airbox where the boot goes to frame, and also threads to snorkel straight from carb but there's not great instructions. Has anyone tried this route? A 1.5 inch PVC fits over the mouth of carb but is a little loose, and tightening a hose clamp around the PVC probably won't clamp a PVC pipe to fill the gap. I would assume you'd run the PVC through a hole in the toolbox and up the rear and put one of those cone air filters on the top of PVC? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. I have some different jets for carb if rejetting is necessary.




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[350for350]

You'd have to use a rubber boot between the PVC and the carb. Most of the pictures that I've seen have the snorkels running to the front of the trike.

[Tacky]

Have built many snorkels on quads, never on 3 wheelers. I used alot of pvc piping, elbows etc, along with rubber couplings with hose clamps to attach them. Just remember these few things.

1, build the snorkel to allow it to be removed to access the motor for maintenance and repairs, so don't just glue it into place.

2, you will have to experiment in tubing sizes for fit, and adequate air flow. You will probably have to change jets and carb. Settings to get it running good, just the nature of the beast.

3, just because it has a snorkel does not mean it can be used like a person uses a snorkel to dive, the electric parts, and motor do not react well to water immersion. But built properly you can submerge the machine and still keep it running and moving.

[Pierce1989]

Thanks for the replies! I am going to try it out this weekend and will post pictures.

[ps2fixer]

Let me know if you need a set of hubs, I should have a spare set around. Probably have some other 84 200ES parts too, just not sure what all interchanges. Likely most things not related to the chain vs shaft drive.

If you're going to toss the OEM carb, I'll pay shipping + packing for it. Don't really need it, but OEM carbs generally run the best.

The stock setup is quite good for water, I've been in water up to the seat on my 200ES with no problems. The air intake is right by the neck of the machine, so that's your max depth, and worst case if you don't mind the risk, you could go deeper, but do a wheelie to keep the front high enough. Never had electrical problems, but I didn't do it all the time either like once or twice.

Just encase you don't know, the 200ES is the shaft drive version of the 200E.

[Pierce1989]

The tires are dry-rotted stuck to the hub we're going to take them to Pepboys to try to remove them with their machine. Hopefully the machine doesn't crumble the hubs! So far I have replaced all bearings and put a tire on the front. The chain is unusable, and the front sprocket seems like a pain to get to with the subtranny so hoping I can just guide a new chain through by connecting it to the old one and moving it through. The brake pedal is pretty much seized onto the spindle, I was able to get it to move a little but won't come off. Maybe a torch will convince it.

I think I will do as suggested and just use the original airbox setup. The airbox is missing the cover and the rubber boot to carb is hard as a rock and has cracks, so I don' think it is usable. Unless there is a special tape that can be wrapped around it 100 times and withstand the elements and gas. Does anyone have an airbox cover for an '83 200E and the 2 rubber boots, especially the carb to airbox one?!

Ps2fixer, I may be able to send you the carb if I end up using the new one. Sometimes I buy the Amazon carbs and move over the float, needle valve, float bowl o-ring, pretty much everything to the Keihin carb besides the throttle cable assembly and slide. It is cheaper than a rebuild kit, matches perfectly depending on which one you buy, and comes with the fuel filter and a spare cone air filter.

[ps2fixer]

I went out and found a 200es air box, two rubber boots from box to frame, and one for airbox to carb. Letting them warm up since it's 15 degrees out atm lol. Air box has the lid with it, but the wing nut bolt things are not with it, do you have them by chance, or do I need to find them? There was another air box lid with a hole cut in it, I didn't pay attention if it had the bolts or not in it.

Also, yea should be able to string the new chain though where the sprocket is, just put the transmission/transfer case in neutral so it rolls easier.

[Pierce1989]

I went out and found a 200es air box, two rubber boots from box to frame, and one for airbox to carb. Letting them warm up since it's 15 degrees out atm lol. Air box has the lid with it, but the wing nut bolt things are not with it, do you have them by chance, or do I need to find them? There was another air box lid with a hole cut in it, I didn't pay attention if it had the bolts or not in it.

Also, yea should be able to string the new chain though where the sprocket is, just put the transmission/transfer case in neutral so it rolls easier.

Thanks so much! I will PM you now.

[Gabriel]

A trick to breaking those tires down...do not completely deflate. Leave a couple pounds of air in there. It gives the machine something to push against. Break down one side then lube the snot out of and air it back up. You do NOT have to seat the bead, just get a little air back in it.
Then break the other side down.

If you don’t a typical tire machine just flops over the tire and won’t break it down. Tires are my occupation so I’ve learned a trick or three.


If you need parts, make a post in the classifieds here. One of us probably has it.

[Pierce1989]

A trick to breaking those tires down...do not completely deflate. Leave a couple pounds of air in there. It gives the machine something to push against. Break down one side then lube the snot out of and air it back up. You do NOT have to seat the bead, just get a little air back in it.
Then break the other side down.

If you don’t a typical tire machine just flops over the tire and won’t break it down. Tires are my occupation so I’ve learned a trick or three.


If you need parts, make a post in the classifieds here. One of us probably has it.


The tires wouldn't come off the redneck way with a jack under my truck, or with Pepboy's fancy tire machine they were so dry-rotted on there. We had to cut them off with a cut-off wheel. The good news is even though the hubs had rust buildup around the lips, they were salvageable enough to tube them and put some old tires on. The thing is starting to look beastly! Just need an airbox and it'll be ready for the Everglades. I'll post a picture up after work. I did notice the frame is bent in the front pretty bad with a dent. I wouldn't have bought it if I noticed this, even for $250. I'm hoping as long as someone doesn't hit a tree or roll it, the frame won't snap. Let me know what y'all think. One of the pictures looks like it is a hole in the frame but there isn't one. There's also a pic of an exhaust leak that's pretty noticeable when it's running. The exhaust will most likely crumble if removed to try to fix256674 it (happened on my last one). Anyone know of a solution like a JB weld that could withstand the heat from exhaust that could be used as a patch until $200 disposable income for a new exhaust is ready?

256671256672256673

[ps2fixer]

I think you're underestimating how strong steel is, even with surface rust. It's the pitted/flaked out rust you have to worry about. How's the exhaust besides the flange? I probably have a junk rusted out exhaust with a desent flange/pipe if you can weld or know someone. Since it's broken right at the flange, it's probably not ideal to try to fix it.

For the rims, sand them down, repaint and they will look like new again, unless it has heavy pitting. If that's the case and you want pretty rims, use some body filler to fill the pits, sand it smooth and paint. I've NEVER seen a rim so rusty it crumbles, only so rusty it leaks air and I've seen some BAD rims lol. On the frame, depending how it's bent, it could be possible to bend it back, but it would take some fancy work to get things just right, probably best to leave it as is as long as it doesn't drive/ride weird. Again if you're into welding and such, I could probably cut off the neck of a 200es frame and ship it your way. Also whoever does the weld work better be good, no bubble gum welds like on that exhaust flange.

Nvm on the frame, it looks like the pipe is collapsed pretty bad, so yea pretty weak for running into things, should be fine for normal riding and such, just don't push anything with it.

Also that redneck way of dismounting tires is a horrible way to do it, I've tried it before and never had success. Easier way is to drive your truck tire over the tire and ride it as close to the bead as possible. It takes a few attempts but works fairly well. It's more ideal for larger tires though, atv tires it's trying to take too much off at once. I've done it that way or when it's really bad, with a tire maul for car/truck/semi rims. My dad inherited a huge pile of tires when his dad died, and the tire recycler either charged more for with rims, or wouldn't accept them with rims, so we broke down a 16x8 trailer loaded about 7-8ft tall with tires all broken down by hand. Hauled in the rims to pay the cost of recycling them and maybe a tiny bit extra for a "profit". I got pretty good at taking down those 16.5in split style rims used on bigger trucks back a long time ago.

Looks like you'd need a lead pipe for your machine too, it's looking rusty enough that it's getting thin. I think they tend to break though on the bottom side were water would drip off when wet. Might have one in usable shape laying around, I'll have to check the shed further back on my property though. If you are planning to replace the whole exhaust system with all new, it wouldn't hurt to just weld the exaust head pipe to the exhaust pipe, just it will be trashed and unusable once you cut it back off.


Anyway, update on the air box now that it's warmed up. The airbox to frame rubber boot is pretty good, soft and flexible and I don't see any cracks. The carb one is a bit stiff but not rock hard, but the top side has about a 1/4in crack at the clamp area, might be usable but probably would want to atleast RTV seal it up when installing. Also I noticed the actual airbox has a melted hold in the side of it, but I think you already have an air box anyway. Also make sure your air box has the exhaust shield, it screws on, this one here is in good shape.

I'll run out and check for the lid screws and such, also have to try to dig up a seat pan for another member.

[Pierce1989]

I think you're underestimating how strong steel is, even with surface rust. It's the pitted/flaked out rust you have to worry about. How's the exhaust besides the flange? I probably have a junk rusted out exhaust with a desent flange/pipe if you can weld or know someone. Since it's broken right at the flange, it's probably not ideal to try to fix it.

For the rims, sand them down, repaint and they will look like new again, unless it has heavy pitting. If that's the case and you want pretty rims, use some body filler to fill the pits, sand it smooth and paint. I've NEVER seen a rim so rusty it crumbles, only so rusty it leaks air and I've seen some BAD rims lol. On the frame, depending how it's bent, it could be possible to bend it back, but it would take some fancy work to get things just right, probably best to leave it as is as long as it doesn't drive/ride weird. Again if you're into welding and such, I could probably cut off the neck of a 200es frame and ship it your way. Also whoever does the weld work better be good, no bubble gum welds like on that exhaust flange.

Nvm on the frame, it looks like the pipe is collapsed pretty bad, so yea pretty weak for running into things, should be fine for normal riding and such, just don't push anything with it.

Also that redneck way of dismounting tires is a horrible way to do it, I've tried it before and never had success. Easier way is to drive your truck tire over the tire and ride it as close to the bead as possible. It takes a few attempts but works fairly well. It's more ideal for larger tires though, atv tires it's trying to take too much off at once. I've done it that way or when it's really bad, with a tire maul for car/truck/semi rims. My dad inherited a huge pile of tires when his dad died, and the tire recycler either charged more for with rims, or wouldn't accept them with rims, so we broke down a 16x8 trailer loaded about 7-8ft tall with tires all broken down by hand. Hauled in the rims to pay the cost of recycling them and maybe a tiny bit extra for a "profit". I got pretty good at taking down those 16.5in split style rims used on bigger trucks back a long time ago.

Looks like you'd need a lead pipe for your machine too, it's looking rusty enough that it's getting thin. I think they tend to break though on the bottom side were water would drip off when wet. Might have one in usable shape laying around, I'll have to check the shed further back on my property though. If you are planning to replace the whole exhaust system with all new, it wouldn't hurt to just weld the exaust head pipe to the exhaust pipe, just it will be trashed and unusable once you cut it back off.


Anyway, update on the air box now that it's warmed up. The airbox to frame rubber boot is pretty good, soft and flexible and I don't see any cracks. The carb one is a bit stiff but not rock hard, but the top side has about a 1/4in crack at the clamp area, might be usable but probably would want to atleast RTV seal it up when installing. Also I noticed the actual airbox has a melted hold in the side of it, but I think you already have an air box anyway. Also make sure your air box has the exhaust shield, it screws on, this one here is in good shape.

I'll run out and check for the lid screws and such, also have to try to dig up a seat pan for another member.

Thanks for the advice. The redneck method generally works when the tires aren't dry-rotted! I don't have access to a welder so I was wondering if anyone knew if JBweld or something similar could be pasted over the crack, let it dry, and maybe it'd hold out for a few rides until we can get an RCM exhaust. But not even going to try it if someone with more experience knows JBweld won't work. The airbox I have doesn't have the heat shield on it. Thanks for taking a look for all this for me, with your help we can be out on the trails soon. I sent you a PM earlier, whenever you get a chance please let me know, thanks bud!

[ps2fixer]

Dug up the airbox lid bolts, the other lid had them in it yet. Wing nut side is surface rust, but pretty typical, rest of the bolt looks in good shape. I pulled the exhaust shield off this air box, and have the screws to include for that as well. I found another carb to airbox boot in better shape than the last one, just really dirty. I have the clamps included too, the carb one isn't the greatest, but better than nothing if you don't have one.

The exhaust system is pretty trashed already, trying JB weld wouldn't hurt anything, I don't think the stuff catches on fire. There's a video of a guy making a piston out of JB weld or a head whichever and it didn't burst into flames. Worst case, it will crumble apart and leak again. Another route you could do is take a metal soup can, cut the top/bottom off and cut it length wise and wrap it around the exhaust pipe and clamp it with hose clamps. It's not a leak proof setup, but helps reduce it. The can won't last long and rust out, but short term that's a way to not get a ticket for a loud exhaust on cars in Michigan lol. Maybe JB weld, then soup can it. Just careful not to block the exhaust off on the inside, not sure how runny JB weld is. Ideally you'd have some screen or something added in for extra support and something to help hold the JB weld over the big gap. Probably worth while trying to bolt the exhaust on too, I think in the one photo it was missing the front side bolt.

Anyway, here's a couple photos of what I have for ya, I'll shoot ya a pm about it.

Didn't have luck on the exhaust, but sounds like you're not too worried about going with OEM so it's all good.

[Pierce1989]

That soup can trick sounds great and it won't hurt anything, I'll try it out and let you know how it goes. Thanks for the help, already sent you the Paypal!

[ps2fixer]

Sounds good, careful with the can, when it's cut it's sharp. I've used tin snips to do the length wise cut. The idea is to wrap it around so it covers the whole pipe, might be kind of hard to do with the tiny 200e pipe vs a car pipe, starting with a smaller sized can will probably help a ton.

[Pierce1989]

For humor and advice, here's an update. Timing is off on trike. Instead of using a straw to help find TDC through spark plug hole, I used a pencil. Turned crankshaft a tad, pencil broke about an inch or inch and a half inside cylinder. Now I can't turn the crank to fish it out because it looks like the broken pencil is holding the exhaust valve open. I removed the exhaust header to try to look in but can't see well with the frame bar and possibly the angle. I then figure I will have to remove the engine to either be able to see down in there or have to remove head, and break the head off bottom rear engine mount bolt (last one to remove per manual). Heat up, pb blaster, try to beat the bolt through and nothing, so I will buy a long drift today and try again. Already ordered new bolt.

Anyways, if I cannot see the pencil through the exhaust valve port, would I have to remove the entire head? If so, what should I go ahead and buy as far as gaskets and whatnot? Open to any suggestions!

Hopefully this was humorous for some. Trying to teach yourself to work on engines is a trial-and-error, expensive new hobby.

[Gabriel]

Was it the eraser end? I ask because there's a metal band on the end. If there's only wood and graphite in there, you might be able to gently dig around with a probe and break it loose. Then you could vacuum it out (maybe). If that metal band is in there, stop what you're doing and tear it down. Just my opinion.

Next time, just take the plugs out of the valve cover where you adjust the rockers. Rotate the engine and watch the intake valve. As soon as it closes look through the timing port move the engine to the mark on the flywheel and you got TDC.

[Pierce1989]

Was it the eraser end? I ask because there's a metal band on the end. If there's only wood and graphite in there, you might be able to gently dig around with a probe and break it loose. Then you could vacuum it out (maybe). If that metal band is in there, stop what you're doing and tear it down. Just my opinion.

Next time, just take the plugs out of the valve cover where you adjust the rockers. Rotate the engine and watch the intake valve. As soon as it closes look through the timing port move the engine to the mark on the flywheel and you got TDC.

Luckily, it's not the metal band and eraser end. I also though about trying to burn it out, what do you think? If I get the engine out, do you think there's enough clearance through the exhaust port to be able to see the pencil and shove it away from the exhaust port so it'll atleast close?

Also, is it necessary to follow the service manual exactly to remove a 200E engine? Such as disassemble sub transmission, alternator, move engine out right side, ect? Or will it fit out the left side without removing all that? I would have to order gaskets and whatnot if I remove them.

[ps2fixer]

Depending on what you're doing, finding exact top dead center requires a degree wheel and a piston stop. There's too much range the piston stops for to accurately get TDC. If it's for the timing chain, look for the T mark on the fly wheel. The F mark is for checking ignition timing (aka Fire). The T mark is accurate enough for the timing chain, but can be unreliable for ignition timing when modifying (sometimes it's stamped off a little from what I've read).

You can pull the engine out as a whole unit, but taking that extra stuff off would probably make it easier. Might have to pull the starter to get more room to work and maybe airbox/carb. I don't work on the 200 series engines a whole lot so can't remember how I pulled parts machines apart lol.

Since there isn't a whole lot of room to work around the spark plug hole, you might be better off pulling the engine out of the frame to try to fish it out, then you can use gravity to move it around and some long narrow pliers or tweezers to try to fish it out.

If you do take it apart, I'd say new head gasket, maybe new base gasket for the cylinder if it breaks loose or has any signs of leaking. For the top end, since you'll have it off, I'd inspect the head, make sure the valves are seating well. If you're up to it and have the tools, replace the valve stem seals. Re-assemble the valve cover with permatex GRAY RTV. It gives you a lot more time to work with to assemble, but takes 24hr to cure. Hondabond, Yamabond etc might setup up really fast and if it sets up too fast it won't seal. I don't remember the name of the stuff, but there's a bunch of people that swear by another brand that's like Hondabond in the porting/build chainsaw communities, but it sets up in something like 30 seconds. Also, if you care about the decompression system on the 350x, make sure everything is loooking good in that area, no excess wear etc. A new seal for the shaft isn't a bad idea. If it doesn't work right you might need a new cable, not sure if it can be adjusted. Some people just pull the cable and live with out the decompression system, but you have to learn the trick to starting it, and you get worn out quicker if you can't get it to fire up right away. No decompression system puts more stress on the kick starter system, but I don't think this machine has any real issues in that area so shouldn't be a problem.

[Pierce1989]

Depending on what you're doing, finding exact top dead center requires a degree wheel and a piston stop. There's too much range the piston stops for to accurately get TDC. If it's for the timing chain, look for the T mark on the fly wheel. The F mark is for checking ignition timing (aka Fire). The T mark is accurate enough for the timing chain, but can be unreliable for ignition timing when modifying (sometimes it's stamped off a little from what I've read).

You can pull the engine out as a whole unit, but taking that extra stuff off would probably make it easier. Might have to pull the starter to get more room to work and maybe airbox/carb. I don't work on the 200 series engines a whole lot so can't remember how I pulled parts machines apart lol.

Since there isn't a whole lot of room to work around the spark plug hole, you might be better off pulling the engine out of the frame to try to fish it out, then you can use gravity to move it around and some long narrow pliers or tweezers to try to fish it out.

If you do take it apart, I'd say new head gasket, maybe new base gasket for the cylinder if it breaks loose or has any signs of leaking. For the top end, since you'll have it off, I'd inspect the head, make sure the valves are seating well. If you're up to it and have the tools, replace the valve stem seals. Re-assemble the valve cover with permatex GRAY RTV. It gives you a lot more time to work with to assemble, but takes 24hr to cure. Hondabond, Yamabond etc might setup up really fast and if it sets up too fast it won't seal. I don't remember the name of the stuff, but there's a bunch of people that swear by another brand that's like Hondabond in the porting/build chainsaw communities, but it sets up in something like 30 seconds. Also, if you care about the decompression system on the 350x, make sure everything is loooking good in that area, no excess wear etc. A new seal for the shaft isn't a bad idea. If it doesn't work right you might need a new cable, not sure if it can be adjusted. Some people just pull the cable and live with out the decompression system, but you have to learn the trick to starting it, and you get worn out quicker if you can't get it to fire up right away. No decompression system puts more stress on the kick starter system, but I don't think this machine has any real issues in that area so shouldn't be a problem.

Ps2fixer, thanks for the write up. I already ordered a full engine gasket kit on Amazon, figured for $27 there's no reason to not have one and if I don't have to remove the valve cover and head to get that pencil. I see in the service manual there's no gasket for that part, it only says a sealant like you said. I already have Permatex Form A Gasket #2, and Permatex Aviation cement form a gasket #3. Would these work in place of the gray RTV, or is "Permatex Ultra Grey Rigid High-Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker - 75181" the only option. Thanks for the help in advance, this will be my first time pulling the head. I'm reading the Clymer service manual but some parts can be vague for someone that's never done it.

[ps2fixer]

Red RTV is a really soft sealant, it's ok in some areas, but for the valve cover I'd suggest the Gray still. Also fair warning on the Red RTV, be sure to never apply too much, a thin film is enough. If you get a bead of the RTV in the engine it can plug up oil path ways or collect on the pickup screen for the oil pump. Generally when someone sees Red RTV they think a hillbilly hick put the engine together on the cheap instead of properly. Some areas that need sealer like intakes on cars sometimes uses some on the corners, but not for the whole gasket. The Red stuff is pretty good, but it's more general use I'd say.

I've never used the Form A stuff, but it kind of sounds like it's a thread sealant or something like that. I see fast drying, and hard setting as probably bad things. Hard setting might take it very hard to remove the valve cover down the road, you don't want to cement the cover on, just seal it. Also it needs to be high temp, since the head gets quite hot.

Just so we are looking at the same stuff, here's a random link to the gray rtv I'm talking about. I don't see anything on the tube that says high torque, but it's in the details of the listing. Mfr # is 82194.
https://www.zoro.com/permatex-rtv-silicone-sealant-35-oz-tube-gray-82194/i/G0600415/

Right on the product specs, here's the uses below.



Characteristics: High Load Engine Conditions With Closely Spaced Bolt Patterns, Oil and Water-Glycol Resistance

For Use On: Valve Covers, Oil Pans, Automatic Transmission Pans, Intake Manifold End Seals, Timing Covers, Water Pumps, Thermostat Housings, Cover Housing Gasket, Differential, Assembly to Rear Axle Housing, Power Dividers, axle Shaft Flanges


Usage is clean both surfaces well, apply a thin even bead around the whole gasket surface, and bolt together per service manual specs. A little goes along way, it squishes down quite thin. It starts to harden after an hour, so you have a lot of time for cleanup etc too. I'm sure the tube has a better description though.

[Pierce1989]

Red RTV is a really soft sealant, it's ok in some areas, but for the valve cover I'd suggest the Gray still. Also fair warning on the Red RTV, be sure to never apply too much, a thin film is enough. If you get a bead of the RTV in the engine it can plug up oil path ways or collect on the pickup screen for the oil pump. Generally when someone sees Red RTV they think a hillbilly hick put the engine together on the cheap instead of properly. Some areas that need sealer like intakes on cars sometimes uses some on the corners, but not for the whole gasket. The Red stuff is pretty good, but it's more general use I'd say.

I've never used the Form A stuff, but it kind of sounds like it's a thread sealant or something like that. I see fast drying, and hard setting as probably bad things. Hard setting might take it very hard to remove the valve cover down the road, you don't want to cement the cover on, just seal it. Also it needs to be high temp, since the head gets quite hot.

Just so we are looking at the same stuff, here's a random link to the gray rtv I'm talking about. I don't see anything on the tube that says high torque, but it's in the details of the listing. Mfr # is 82194.
https://www.zoro.com/permatex-rtv-silicone-sealant-35-oz-tube-gray-82194/i/G0600415/

Right on the product specs, here's the uses below.



Usage is clean both surfaces well, apply a thin even bead around the whole gasket surface, and bolt together per service manual specs. A little goes along way, it squishes down quite thin. It starts to harden after an hour, so you have a lot of time for cleanup etc too. I'm sure the tube has a better description though.

Now I am starting to panic. The intake valve adjustment screw is seized and will not move. 24mm wrench began to strip it, now I've been trying to soak it in PB blaster, heating with propane, pipe wrench, vice grips, tried to make a slit with a cutoff wheel to chisel it, nothing has worked and the metal is soft. I wouldn't panic as much if the manual didn't say before removing the valve cover, line the cam chain sprocket O and cylinder V together before removing, which I cannot do because a broken pencil is stuck in my exhaust valve that can't be fished out. What would yall do? Unfortunately I don't have access to a welder to weld another bolt or something. Does the cam sprocket really have to line up to remove the head cover? Best case scenario it doesn't, I can remove valve cover then head, get pencil out, and can soak the valve cover in oil or something for days and maybe it'll loosen up. or cut the adjustment bolt out somehow. Or order a used one if necessary.256742256743 Help please!

[fabiodriven]

Yikes! I'm thinking maybe air chizzle my nizzle.

[ps2fixer]

The very outside of it is just for the o-ring seal. I wonder if someone tried to put some sort of sealer on it or the threads? It's made of AL so it's not steel, so not so easy to weld to. Never had one I couldn't get out and never caused that much damage. Is your socket 6 pointed, and are you using hand tools or an impact? I personally like to use hand tools on things like this, breaker bar.

The head has a layer of something on it, I don't think it really looks like typical oil build up, but like a bed liner or something. Maybe that's what's gluing it in.

FYI, if you can get the valve cover cap off you can buy new ones from Honda last time I checked. Not sure why you're trying to remove it, not really needed to pull the valve cover, but it is needed for adjusting the valves.

Careful with heat, AL gives no warning before it melts, steel will turn red/orange, and melts around yellow.

Worst case, I think a used valve cover is pretty cheap on ebay.

[Pierce1989]

Can the head cover be removed even though the cam sprocket O and engine case V are not lined up? This is what the service manual says to do before removing it but I can't move the crank at all because of that pencil. Will the head cover still come off without damaging anything when the O and V are not lined up?

[ps2fixer]

Yea it can be removed w\o lining it correctly. It's just best practice to move it to top dead center so the cam isn't pushing on the valves. Just break all of the valve cover bolts loose and unscrew them evenly to release the pressure. You can't move the crank anyway, so not like you could line it up if you wanted to.

[Pierce1989]

Ps2fixer, you're the man. Removed the head cover and head and found the pencil. I already ordered a used head cover for $35 that has both adjustment bolts, compression lever that works unlike mine, and the rocker arms. Now I'll do some of the measurements from service manual for cam lobes and everything and put back together. The manual says "clean the entire head in cleaning solvent" which I am interpreting soak it in simple green or something for a few hours, take it out and dry with compressed air? And for removing carbon off piston, maybe a wire brush on a low speed drill? Wish Clymer went into more detail for the rookies. Here's a picture of the culprit. The piston doesn't seem as bad as some of the other images I've seen on this website, ,maybe someone rebuilt the topend at one point. 256774256775

[ps2fixer]

Here's where you can get a Honda service manual.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

The top of the head and valve cover surfaces need to be clean so the new sealer can seal to them. Same type of thing as the head gasket surfaces. Normally I've seen it done with a razor blade to remove any old gasket material, then brake clean to get the surface oil free and remove the rest of the material. There might be an easier process, don't exactly build engines every day lol.

Not 100% sure, but I don't think that's the stock piston. I think the OEM ones are flat top. Maybe it's a 10.5:1 or something. The carbon build up isn't super bad, might be a bit rich on the jetting, but it's also pretty natural to have carbon build up slightly anyway, don't think I've ever pulled apart an engine the was clean lol. Probably wouldn't hurt to give he head atleast a good cleaning in some parts cleaner or kerosene to get that gunk layer off the head fins so you can be sure your valve cover sealer job is good.

FYI, the two huge like 17mm or 19mm bolts on the top of the valve cover are just caps with o-rings to seal it. It gives access to the rocker arm tappets to adjust the play between the valve end and cam lobe.

I'd think a wire wheel should be pretty safe on the piston, but it would be best to remove the piston so no metal strands get in the engine. I can't remember what a good cleaner is that dissolves carbon is.

[wellys88]

when nobodys around stick the whole lot in the dishwasher, it will come out like mew;O lol

[hublake]

I have a Honda manual for the 82-83 Honda Big Red 200e. If interested PM me your address and I will put in the mail on Monday.

[Pierce1989]

I have a Honda manual for the 82-83 Honda Big Red 200e. If interested PM me your address and I will put in the mail on Monday.

Thanks Hublake, I have the Clymers manual that covers multiple trikes it can just be vague sometimes for a first timer. My Athena gaskets have arrived and I'll be installing the head gasket today. The manual doesn't say anything about using a gasket sealant, and I have seen one thread on here say install it dry, and others say use Yamabond or Hondabond, another said "Hi Tac" gasket sealant. What do y'all use? I have Permatex Aviation cement, Permatex form-a-gasket #2, and the Permatex RTV gray Ps2fixer recommended, should I use any of these or just install it dry?

[ps2fixer]

The head gasket you install with nothing on it. It's the valve cover on top of the head that needs a sealer. The head gasket is special made to hold up to the pressure and heat involved. I suspect there might be some sort of product out there for head gaskets, but I've never used anything like that, and I've never heard of an OEM maker use anything like that.

[Pierce1989]

The head gasket you install with nothing on it. It's the valve cover on top of the head that needs a sealer. The head gasket is special made to hold up to the pressure and heat involved. I suspect there might be some sort of product out there for head gaskets, but I've never used anything like that, and I've never heard of an OEM maker use anything like that.

Alright, getting ready to install head gasket and I've hit 2 dead ends. For one, the complete gasket kit I have doesn't have identifiers. I went on the website and could see what is all included in just the topend kit, and as far as the small O-rings go, there's 3 green ones and one small black one for top end. Problem is 4 small black O-rings came in the kit all different sizes. I need the O-RING (10X1.6) that goes on rear right dowel when looking from pullstart side and they all look the same. What do yall think by the picture? If anyone can identify, I can get this thing put back together!
256818


Secondly, how in the world are you supposed to get the boss bolt behind pullstarter out with the allen wrench head? Is it only possible when engine is on trike with chain and in gear, or is there another trick to keep crank from turning while it's on my workbench? My impact driver isn't strong enough.

[350for350]

From what I can tell, the two o-rings in the middle appear to have the same thickness. The one on the right is thicker while the one on the left is thinner. You need to measure the thickness to find out which one is the 1.6 (mm?) one. You either need to measure one side for thickness or measure the thickness top to bottom. I hope this makes sense.

[Pierce1989]

Uh oh. I measured the thickness and none of the black ones were 1.6. I looked at part number 91301-200-000 for the o-ring on google and saw some were green and were O-rings for valve guides.. I got the complete engine kit but the topend kit has 3 small green O-rings, and one small black o-ring. I figured two greens for valve guide seals, one green for oil seal for cylinder, and I couldn't figure out the other one. Would that possibly sound right? Here's what the other 2 look like and the link to rebuild kit for topend only.256822256822

http://www.athenaparts.com/eng/products/view/6107/top-end-gaskets-kit

[Pierce1989]

It keeps getting more and more interesting. I removed left case cover, removed flywheel, and there is no woodruff key on the crank. There is not even a slot for one, almost like it was grinded off entirely. The slot is still in the flywheel though. Have yall ever seen this? What would yall do now? I see crankshafts on ebay for $40 or so. Does the bottom end need to be split to install a crankshaft?

My other options would be to buy a used bottom end and hopefully it has no problems. Or buy an entire used engine and part out this one to make some of the money back for a used one. I'm surprised this thing even started for a minute. I'd love to hear some advice from yall!
256840256841256842

[ps2fixer]

I don't have any 200E parts, but maybe the 82 185s engine is similar enough?

It looks like the key sheered, you should be able to dig out the key on both the flywheel and crank and get a new key for it. Not sure if the crank is worn too much or not though. The fly wheel when bolted on should contact the surface of the crank and friction holds it on quite well with out the key.

The cases split and the crank comes out from the center of the two.

[Pierce1989]

I don't have any 200E parts, but maybe the 82 185s engine is similar enough?

It looks like the key sheered, you should be able to dig out the key on both the flywheel and crank and get a new key for it. Not sure if the crank is worn too much or not though. The fly wheel when bolted on should contact the surface of the crank and friction holds it on quite well with out the key.

The cases split and the crank comes out from the center of the two.

You just made my day. I thought the crankshaft was grinded down so much that the keyway disappeared as well. Just tried to get it out but it's really in there. Do you have a trick for it? Heating it up and putting a flathead under the lip and hitting with a hammer sounds like it could be disastrous. You can kinda see the lip of the key in one of the pics.

Edit: Just got it out. Thanks for the advice, hopefully it's not too worn to be re-used. I'll order another key and hopefully get this thing running. This would explain why the timing was so screwed up.
256843

[ps2fixer]

Pretty sure the timing on that machine has nothing to do with the fly wheel. Isn't the pulse generator under the "CDI" cover on the head and is ran off the Cam? I guess if the mechanical timing was set based on the fly wheel it could be way off though. I guess the real question is what is the buildup on the crank. Is it material from the flywheel, or is is grown into the crank. I know photos can make things look worse than they really are. Maybe there's a spec in the service manual for the size there. I probably can't be too much of a help except maybe touch up the surfaces and dry fit the fly wheel on the crank and see if the bolting it on will make it hold via friction. If not you'll probably have to replace the flywheel and/or crank. There's atleast a hope that it will work w\o replacing them though. Depends how much it bothers you. Pretty sure worst case it would sheer the key again.

The other question is, how did the key sheer in the first place. Normally on like lawn mowers they are fairly hard to sheer. I've hit a stump before with a brigs and the key didn't sheer, but I don't think I've ever done that with a cast iron flywheel engine.

Personally I'd probably just use a flat punch where you can see where the key is and knock it out. Not sure what method you used, but seems like it worked. The opposite side of it should be in the flywheel, probably the same process, hit the edge of it and knock it out. Just careful of the steel surfaces.

I might have a 200es parts engine, I can't recall for sure though. The output shaft would be shaft drive, but the rest should be more or less the same. Could look up honda part numbers to validate interchange fairly well too if it came down to it.

[Pierce1989]

Pretty sure the timing on that machine has nothing to do with the fly wheel. Isn't the pulse generator under the "CDI" cover on the head and is ran off the Cam? I guess if the mechanical timing was set based on the fly wheel it could be way off though. I guess the real question is what is the buildup on the crank. Is it material from the flywheel, or is is grown into the crank. I know photos can make things look worse than they really are. Maybe there's a spec in the service manual for the size there. I probably can't be too much of a help except maybe touch up the surfaces and dry fit the fly wheel on the crank and see if the bolting it on will make it hold via friction. If not you'll probably have to replace the flywheel and/or crank. There's atleast a hope that it will work w\o replacing them though. Depends how much it bothers you. Pretty sure worst case it would sheer the key again.

The other question is, how did the key sheer in the first place. Normally on like lawn mowers they are fairly hard to sheer. I've hit a stump before with a brigs and the key didn't sheer, but I don't think I've ever done that with a cast iron flywheel engine.

Personally I'd probably just use a flat punch where you can see where the key is and knock it out. Not sure what method you used, but seems like it worked. The opposite side of it should be in the flywheel, probably the same process, hit the edge of it and knock it out. Just careful of the steel surfaces.

I might have a 200es parts engine, I can't recall for sure though. The output shaft would be shaft drive, but the rest should be more or less the same. Could look up honda part numbers to validate interchange fairly well too if it came down to it.

I just ordered a new woodruff key and I was missing a washer on one of the idle gears so ordered that too. I was hoping that key may have had something to do with the timing being off but I guess not. I've just been wondering why this thing started for a few minute, then died and lost spark. At first it was the killswitch being in awful shape and it was loose and would move from RUN to OFF, so I cut if off and both wires are now exposed (not touching), so this shouldn't be the problem. The trike did not have a starter button when bought. Now I am thinking neutral switch could have been bad, how can I bypass this? I saw on another thread that the CDI looks for this for engine to start.

I'd like to just get this wired simply like my ATC200, where I think the only grounds are at ignition coil, and coming out of stator to be able to get spark. This 200E has wires near the battery, and relays/fuses it looks like. I'd love to just bypass all that so it runs like a regular 200 off the stator, and without worries from neutral switch being faulty. Does anyone have the wires memorized and can explain what I could do? Thanks for the help!

[ps2fixer]

Your machine is nothing like the 250es in the other thread. The safety system is also very different from the 200ES. No need to memorize wire diagrams, just download a free manual from the site below lol.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

Anyway the CDI has no safety system, so it should be possible to manual pull start it in any gear and have it fire up (never owned this machine). Electric start grounds though the starter switch then though the neutral safety switch. There's no neutral light, so if you really wanted you could just solid ground the neutral wire (light green/red) to the engine/frame/green wire to bypass that feature. The hot side of the solenoid runs though the ignition switch then the fuse near the battery. The fuse wiring that goes together at the battery cable seems to fail quite often. When that wire breaks, you loose all lights etc off battery power, same thing if the fuse is blown.

Note, make sure you don't ground the normal green/red wire or the electric start will kick on when you turn the key on lol.

[Pierce1989]

Trike is still not up and running. The cylinder head assembly (part 12000-427-010) is for the '83 ATC200E, '84 200ES, and '84 TRX200, and many others. My cylinder head had a valve adjustment screw that I couldn't get off, so I ordered a used TRX200 one. Bolted it on, and the cam won't turn freely back and forth when torqued like it does with my old one. Do y'all know the difference between the 427A or 427D stamps when they are the same part number as in the pictures? My old one was 427A, I guess I'll have to order that exact same one. I only see very tiny tiny differences between the two, and the semi-circles look the same where the cam sits.


256990I w256990256988256988256989256989256990

[floydechoes2000]

They look so close from the pics. So you think it's binding the cam? Did you back off the valve adjusters? Are you using the correct gasket, or RTV?

[Pierce1989]

Yeah it's definitely binding the cam. They look identical, the rockers are completely backed off, and I used threebond but removed it after the cam wouldn't spin. It's so strange that my old head cover will torque right up and cam spins but this other one has issues. At this point I'd just order another used one but I'm nervous I'll have the same issue because these parts supposedly interchange!

[ps2fixer]

From my understanding, the 84 TRX200 is more or less the same engine as the 84 ATC200ES engine, so many things interchange between those machines. For 200E vs 200ES I'd think the top ends are the same too, so that's weird that you have fitment problems.

Does either valve cover have scoring? Also did you add oil to the wear surfaces when you assembled? Only thing I can think of is to put the cam in the valve cover and see if it goes all the way in or not.

I never looked into the cashing numbers, but there's no way 200k+ machines were made off a single mold, so I'd assume the A,B,C,D are just the same mold from different era's. Is the TRX one the D mold?

Also, the cam on it's own is the exact same part number, so unless the wrong part was sold to you it should fit just fine. I suspect something else is going on, a build up on one or something. The cam works in more or less every ATC200 cc engine, only one not listed is the 200x, but I think it was just a more aggressive cam profile.

I'd say mess around with a bit more before giving up on the valve cover. Also, since your valve cover would be worn to your cam, maybe it's best to just replace the single rocker arm that you can't get loose, and keep the trx valve cover for parts encase you have issues down the road again.

[Pierce1989]

The TRX one is the 427D one. I was starting to think it was the rocker arms and attempted swapping them but the screw is stripping on the new head cover. Even the rocker arms look identical, and the cam looks fine in both when spinning it. I ended up putting the old head back on with threebond, and I was able to adjust the valves then screw the 24mm adjustment screw in enough to thread in a little and I'll silicone all around it to atleast test the engine and put it on the trike, see if crappy Athena head gasket holds up, shifts through gears, clutch works, all that. I need a thicker sealant that wouldn't seep down into the threads. Maybe it'll hold up until the valves need adjustments again and if the engine is worth it after sitting in the rain this many years and isn't broken, I'll be doing a full topend job so it lasts. I'll let yall know how it goes!

[ps2fixer]

Oh the cap's threads were buggered up? I thought it was the tappet bolt thread (the adjusting bolt on the end of the rocker arm). The cap is just to cap it off, so anyway to seal it should work temp. Is the threads in the valve cover shot, or the actual cap or both?

For a sealant, I'd guess red RTV or gray RTV would work well, just don't apply too much and make sure the surfaces are clean to start with. Red RTV ends up a lot like silicone and if excess gets in the engine it works well to plug oil passages.

[floydechoes2000]

If you're going to use RTV, you only need a very small amount. Like a 1/16" bead or less. Like ps2fixer said, too much and it can get into oil passages and clog them. When you tighten down the valve cover it will squish out a lot more than it seems it would. I think you know this already Pierce1989 but I'm posting it anyway to help others reading who might not know how bad it can be!

[Pierce1989]

So close I can taste it. Engine is back in frame, connected sparkplug to boot, touched sparkplug to cylinder as well as put a wire around and connected other side to a bolt on the pull start and got one little spark or 2, then nothing afterwards. This is the same issue I had before removing the engine. Pickup coil gap is set to spec, new (for me) spark advancer, stator is reading 213 ohms, pickup coil has continuity, kill switch wires are exposed and not touching. From my understanding, even though this has a battery/relay/solenoid and all that, all it needs to spark by pullstart is red/black wire from stator to CDI, 2 wires from pickup coil connected, ignition coil positive wire plugged in, kill switch wires exposed, good cdi, and the only ground is the ignition coil bolt. If this sounds right to y'all, and battery connections/the whole mess under the seat is irrelevant, then I'll be able to swap all parts to my running bikes and if they all work, then it must be a sliced wire in the taped wiring harness or the CDI connector which is pretty corroded inside. I emailed Vintageconnections last week and he said this may be the one to use? http://www.vintageconnections.com/Products/Detail/63 If so, just replace all of mine.

Now here's the bigger issue, I have been pulling the pullstart probably 25 times and not seeing oil the fresh oil I just added coming up to the head through the valve adjustment screws. Carb is off, exhaust is off, spark plug never screwed into hole, just testing spark before assembling everything. Would these pulls be enough to bring oil up? Or does the engine need to be running to get any up there? I put some below the cam before installing the head cover but worried that I don't see any near the valves now. Thanks for all the help guys, almost there with all the advice!

[ps2fixer]

What's the ohms on the pickup coil (Honda calls it a pulse generator).

The CDI system is AC based, so the battery has no direct effect on the ignition system.

At the CDI plug, test black/white (or sometimes solid black) to green/ground. It should give no reading as this is the kill switch wire. You get spark sometimes so I'm assuming this is fine.

The CDI has 5 wires:

Green - Ground (well it's AC so proper term is Neutral or Common)
Black/Red - Power (AC so it's the Hot wire)
Black/White (sometimes solid black, it's for the kill switch, shorted to ground = kill)
Blue/Yellow - Pulse generator signal (it grounds though the green wire, other machines use a dedicated sensor ground wire that's Green/White)
Black/Yellow - Output from the CDI to coil, again the CDI/Coil grounds though the Green wire. The Coil must have good frame/engine ground in order for the spark plug to spark.

The rest of the wire harness besides those colors are for lights, charging the battery, fuses, aux plug etc.

I'm wondering if some sort of harness rental, or even like parts rental setup would be a good idea to get into. The biggest problem is getting the stuff back, or getting paid for what is kept to replace the parts. Like a "race" style harness is pretty easy to make for any machine that uses an AC powered CDI (all Honda 3 wheelers that I've seen). I doubt too many people would want a race harness for a 200e/es though lol.

Also, yes the CDI connector is a 0.110 (2.8mm) series connector. Here's another supplier, but looks like similar prices. If you don't have the proper tools I can make you a pig tail for you to splice into your existing harness. Based on your description, the CDI connector could be the problem, another thing could be the actual CDI too. That style of CDI is very universal, I think every 3 wheeler that uses that connector plug is the same part number for the CDI, and it's in production yet too. I'm almost 100% sure this CDI would work for the 200ES as well if the connector was changed out in the harness. In theory, you should be able to run one of Mike's Performance CDI's for an ATC200X if you updated the harness to the more modern & sealed 4+2 connector. There's probably some Chinese CDI's that would work well too, but it's kind of buy and test with them since the sellers are horrible about giving any real details on the product (ignition spark curve and such).

http://www.cycleterminal.com/110-connectors.html

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/30410-187-008?ref=25aa28c55d690fb8d33fda96bb49546677d3b089


Anyway on the harness topic, look for broken wires at connector plugs, it's very rare to have a wire inside the harness fail unless someone was poking at them with a multi meter though the insulation, or there's physical damage which should be fairly easy to see. Look for signs of past owners covering things up on the harness, like fresh electrical tape. You could also test each of the 5 wires from the CDI to their respected locations to be sure they have near 0 ohms of resistance to their end points. Don't forget to also test green to all locations in the harness that's a green wire, and the engine connection.

[Pierce1989]

Success and failure! Hopefully this helps someone else searching the forums. This trike never had a key and it has always been in the off position. It would start in this position and run then suddenly die, but I didn't think it was an issue since it started. Only thought key was needed for electric start for some reason. After checking all electrical, swapping known good parts to it, etc, I removed the headlight housing and disconnected the green ground from ignition key from the double connector. Blue spark after that, trike would start and idle and I rode it briefly. Then came the next issue, that the boss rotor bolt backs itself out.

In the Clymers manual, it says install gearshift pedal, put in gear, have friend hold brake, and "Tighten rotor bolt with impact driver and hammer." That's it, no torque spec. This bolt keeps backing out after riding and pulling pullstart. My impact driver isn't strong enough, and I don't know what they mean by using a hammer. So I put some blue Loctite on it and tightened until I thought it may break the bolt. I'll wait 24 hours for it to cure and try again. If not, it may be the threads in the flywheel since this thing did sheer the key already once and may have damage. Anyone else have this issue before? Why impact driver and hammer?


You can tell when it backs out because the pullstart won't catch anymore and there's no compression until you tighten the boss bolt back in and put on pullstart again.

[ps2fixer]

The Clymers manual isn't always the best, compare it with the Honda manuals too. Honda made the machine, so in theory their in house made service manual should be the most accurate.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

Anyway, finding the torque specs can be a bit of a chore to find. I found the flywheel nut spec under general info. It says 29-36 ft-lbs. Did you replace the key that was sheered? With the key + the given torque spec and blue loctite it shouldn't back out. If it does, then the taper on the crank/flywheel might be damaged too much from running loose. Also make sure the threads are in good shape and such, maybe your not actually getting tight on the flywheel, but instead hitting a bad spot.

https://i.gyazo.com/1a8c39fdcf8506057cfdb1c6b04208c9.png

[Pierce1989]

The Clymers manual isn't always the best, compare it with the Honda manuals too. Honda made the machine, so in theory their in house made service manual should be the most accurate.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

Anyway, finding the torque specs can be a bit of a chore to find. I found the flywheel nut spec under general info. It says 29-36 ft-lbs. Did you replace the key that was sheered? With the key + the given torque spec and blue loctite it shouldn't back out. If it does, then the taper on the crank/flywheel might be damaged too much from running loose. Also make sure the threads are in good shape and such, maybe your not actually getting tight on the flywheel, but instead hitting a bad spot.

https://i.gyazo.com/1a8c39fdcf8506057cfdb1c6b04208c9.png

Thanks Ps2fixer, I am going to try tonight to ride it and see if it backs out again. If it does, I assume I need a new crank if the taper is too messed up from it running loose. I did replace the key. If the crankshaft was too tapered, what would you do in this position? Buy a crankshaft/bearings/gaskets, split the case, and install for $100 or so, get a used bottom end, or a used engine? I've never split the case so not sure if it'd really be just $100 but I see used cranks for $40-50 on Ebay, already have the bottom end gaskets, and $25 for new bearings, and I'm sure I'll break something else in the process so +$25-$50 margin of error!!

[ps2fixer]

I'ved pulled and re-assembled a couple TRX250X engines apart and splitting the cases were not bad at all. Just let gravity keep things together (put the engine sideways). A couple thrust washers might come off when you pull the case off, but part diagrams on Honda dealer sites or diagrams in the service manuals should help to indicate where everything went. In my case, I had to swap the transmission gears from one housing to another. The one had part of a piston pressed into the gears, I think the other one's case was messed up some around the chain sprocket area.

If your buying a crank, yea new bearings probably isn't a bad idea. I'm not sure if the bearings are pressed on or not, so that's something to think about too. While you're at it, I'd say it's best to buy another flywheel too since the taper on both have to match up for it to hold well.

Also here's the list of machines that use the same part number for the crankshaft.

82-83 ATC200E
84 ATC200ES
84-85 ATC200M
84 TRX200

Looks like the same list of machines you can get the fly wheel from too plus the 84-85 ATC125M and 85-86 TRX125.

I just looked around for a 200es crank since it's the most sold machine and looks like this might be the best deal. Listing says it came from a running engine and there's no damage.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRANK-SHAFT-CRANKSHAFT-84-ATC200ES-ATC-200-ES-BIG-RED/162732745782?hash=item25e3a0a436:g:2WkAAMXQCndRhOU 4:rk:7:pf:0

Cheapest flywheel I saw in a quick search was this one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Rotor-Magneto-Flywheel-Generator-31110-968-004-TRX200-ATC-200ES-200M-125M/273558885389?epid=1428719364&hash=item3fb161540d:g:FVYAAOSwtJxbw07a:sc:USPSPrio rity!48628!US!-1:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true

Also here's a flywheel bolt, not sure if your's is damaged from over torquing or not, but the price isn't too bad. The seller will get like $2 for it after shipping/fees lol.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-HONDA-ATC-200ES-FLYWHEEL-BOLT-STATOR-ENGINE-MAGNETO-CRANK-SHAFT/153042210933?hash=item23a206d075:g:5uIAAOSw4vFZ9qo l:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true


You could go for a bottom end, but if you're willing to spend $100+ make sure it comes with the flywheel atleast since you probably need it. Another route you could do is watch for a parts machine for sale local to you and get a whole machine for like $200-300. That's assuming you have a spot to store the extra machine. Never know the parts machine might have a good engine with minor work needed to get it going and you can swap the whole engine over. When I had the Honda ATC bug, this is the route I'd probably go.