Honda 200 ES dim headlight

[wellys88]

Have a 200ES. The headlight stared being very dim. Especially when rpm's go up. Gets a little brighter at idol
G

[ATC King]

First, check the battery. Not just voltage, but under load.

A bad battery can make the voltage regulator act like that. Check all the connections and wires. Make certain it has a good ground.

[Gabriel]

Might also check voltage at the headlight connection. Could be a bad connection in the harness.

[wellys88]

Ok thanks. Will check those today when I get back to shop

[shortline10]

A lot of times it’s just a corroded light socket , ground side .
Fairly common problem on Honda Atvs .

[Tnwildman]

Check your ground my did that. Ended up being bad ground where wiring harness was grounded to the frame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ps2fixer]

Another note, the power wire can suffer from the same issue as the ground wire, bad connection. Just to add to everything, check the regulator plug, if it has a poor connection it can get really hot at the terminals and burn the wire/plastic housing.

Here's a couple photos pulled from cycleterminal.com for an example.

https://i.gyazo.com/83a188e932f315b2ccec33c31c3ae369.png

If you get really fancy with understanding electronics, you could check the voltage drop across the wire to the headlight and such. From my understanding that's the best way to know if a connection is good or not, but never really done it myself.

[wellys88]

Didnt end up having much time today had to go on a breakdown call. But checked battery. 12.3 volts. Then it wouldn't start on button but started by pull. Light still same way. Will do tests you mention and also test for power drop.

[wellys88]

Found 2 separate issues today. Red wire with fuse attached to possitive connection was very bad repaired that. Light problem solved. Proceeded to go through all starting wiring system and check connections. Found one of the green wires attached to inhibitor relay hanging by a threat. Resoldered and pushed button she fired right up. Thanks to all who provided help. Cleaned all connections including grounding points. Good to go. Thanks again.

[350for350]

Good to hear that you got it fied. Now go ride the wheels off of it to celebrate!:)

[ps2fixer]

Nice work catching the wiring issues. Seems like harness problems are getting more and more common from them getting quite aged. Stiff/brittle wire is a bad sign that the wire insulation could snap exposing the copper. I have some things in the plans for the 200es and similar machines for new harnesses, but probably won't have anything fully figured out for quiet a long time, one of the hurdles of course is the round 6 pin CDI connector used in 84-85 that isn't in production anymore, so a new suitable replacement CDI is needed as well with the newer style plugs.

Anyway, hopefully you don't have any more issues with the machine and it's a solid rider (pun not intended lol).

[wellys88]

Nice work catching the wiring issues. Seems like harness problems are getting more and more common from them getting quite aged. Stiff/brittle wire is a bad sign that the wire insulation could snap exposing the copper. I have some things in the plans for the 200es and similar machines for new harnesses, but probably won't have anything fully figured out for quiet a long time, one of the hurdles of course is the round 6 pin CDI connector used in 84-85 that isn't in production anymore, so a new suitable replacement CDI is needed as well with the newer style plugs.

Anyway, hopefully you don't have any more issues with the machine and it's a solid rider (pun not intended lol).

My next question was did u work on new harness for the ES yet lol. Yes the new connectors and CDi would be great addition and a USB port for charging phones����. Thanks again. And yess the took it for a good ripp 350!

[ps2fixer]

Well the CDI would be down to either a Chinese one (I want to try to measure their performance vs OEM with a tester I want to try to build), or Mike's ATV Fix's ATC200X CDI which I'd think would work on pretty much any 200 series.

The ATC200ES has a lot of wiring going on, so it wouldn't be a cheap harness, just a random ballpark guess, but probably around $200. I have a 82 200E and 84 200ES harness on hand, just need an 83 200E to note all their differences and see if I can make a one fits all harness or how I'll go about it. I have most of the raw materials needed to make one, just trying to standardize a little more and make the design a little bit more of my own instead of a direct copy of the exact year.

Not to throw out false hope or anything, but I hope after the tester thing I want to make, I hope to make an actual digital CDI myself. If I can get the main hardware figured out well, the programming side gives me a lot of options since I'd be programming the actual engine logic, not just changing numbers in a table like car ECU "programming". Wishful thinking, but the same base hardware could have wifi or bluetooth radio added to it + a cell app or laptop program and have the CDI programmable (ignition timing mainly). I'm still pretty new to designing electronics from the ground up, so I'm trying to learn how the Chinese ones work better. I think I can make a fully simulated CDI tester with what I've learned so far, just have to have the fun working with high voltage (100v+) and buying the correctly rated parts to handle it. Not exactly a simple beginner project lol.

Anyway, the main hold up for the 84-85 harnesses has been that pesky CDI connector, some machines you can go to a newer designed CDI, like the 86 250R CDI on a 85 250R, for the 200ES, you'd be going backwards to a 82-83 200E CDI, or in theory a 86-87 200X, or a 86 200S CDI. The 86-87 200x engine was redesigned, so not sure if it kept the mechanical advancement or not. Of course an aftermarket, or new CDI would be ideal. Just "it works" isn't good enough for me, I want something that's OEM performance or if possible something better.

Also, tip on the USB charger stuff, there's an AUX plug near the front of the machine, big black 2 pin connector. It unplugs and uses two bullet terminals. I hacked up a 12v AUX connector for like a car and wired it to the rack for trike fest to power a GPS that was mounted in a case that mounts on the handle bars. Everything worked out great, but you'll need a battery to keep the DC power nice and smooth. Too bad that connector wasn't more widly used, which reminds me, I think a Honda Rincon has a 12v aux plug like a car, might be something to look into to see how it's mounted up. Also neat feature is that the AUX plug cycles on and off with the ignition key. You can't draw too much on the 200ES, the alternator only outputs around 70w peak, but on the 250es it's 200w. Plenty enough for a 2 amp usb charger (~10w) though.

[wellys88]

I think I have an 83 200E parts bike in the mound of 3 wheelers behind my shop lol. I can check see if it still has usable harness. I saw that connector you where talking about today then I took the light off the ES.

[wellys88]

What are my options for using a bigger battery than the stock. What's the output of the charging system on an ES

[ps2fixer]

Yea would be nice to complete the 200e/es collection. I just double checked and 83 has it's own unique part number for the harness, so *something* is different about it. I suspect it's more or less interchangeable with the 82 and 84 though with the matching CDI.

Also, here's a CDI connector image I made to show the differences a little. Not perfect, but covers them fairly well.

[ps2fixer]

Max output is 70W @ 5,000 RPM.

The battery size doesn't matter all that much. If you really wanted to you could slap a car battery or marine deep cycle battery on it. The biggest thing is, with a big battery it will want to draw more current to charge. If it draws too much it could blow a fuse, but never had that happen on my 200es in the past... yea I ran a spare car battery on it for about a year lol. Don't mix battery types though, it came with a lead acid battery, don't try to throw a sealed lead acid in unless you're sure the charging voltage is within spec for the battery type (they can't take overcharge).

Your #1 problem is draw on the alternator though. Headlight + tail light is 50w so with the lights on, the power is almost all going just for the lights while riding. With the lights off, the battery can charge. Idling likely won't put out enough power to charge the battery, big time with lights on. Car's are designed to make excess power at idle, atvs don't due to the alternator design and limitations.

Anyway, the car battery mounts pretty well on the rear rack, just make sure it's strapped down really well as it's a heavy weight that can sling around and hurt you or others easily. Of course with that location you have to extend the battery cables and such. For the most part, it's best to stick with the OEM sized battery since it tucks away so nicely. There's also Lithium Ion batteries for ATVs now. I don't know a whole bunch about them, but Lithium Ion has the highest power vs weight & volume ratio, so a stock sized battery is like 4 times more energy stored in it, and like 5-6 times more max amp output. It's probably best to add a fuse to the starter wire because of how much output the battery has. The stock AH rated batteries are tiny, the challenge with them is getting them mounted so they don't move or get damaged.

[wellys88]

there is no dash indicator lights or reverse switch on 200E. so theres one difference, as for the rest, i havnt looked to closely at it

[ps2fixer]

Ah yea forgot about that, the 82-83 also doesn't have the safety wiring for the CDI either. The 82-83 harness probably is a bit easier to make, I'm pretty sure it doesn't have an inhibitor relay either.

[wellys88]

It has the relay. I checked today

[ps2fixer]

The 84 does, 82-83 doesn't, I just double checked the wire diagram to make sure I wasn't crazy lol.

They all have a neural switch though. The 82-83 was really simple for the safety system, only way electric start works is if the machine is in neutral. If you manually start it, I suspect it will start in any gear. I think the extra wiring on the 84 was to prevent manually starting it in gear, or atleast not allow it to start in reverse. Personally, I'd prefer the 82-83 style harness/safety system for how simple it is, nice and reliable, and if the safety system fails, you can override it by pull starting it. It's also possible to wire up a neutral light on the 82-83 because of the neutral switch, but no reverse switch so not much of a point for that.

[wellys88]

I saw it today. The bikes chain drive. Now I'm tempted to get out of bed and go back out and check��

[wellys88]

God only knows what type of abortion that is that I have then. Lol I'm guessing there was some frankensteining goin on lol

[ps2fixer]

Lol very possible. The other key indication would be the reverse safety switch wire. The 82-83 doesn't have it, while 84 does. I suspect it would have to be a dangling wire, or cut off.

[ATC King]

I think a good battery choice is the Deka ETX15. I've been using that battery for a couple years now and it's holding up.

That battery is sold under a few different names, all with the same part number. Duralast (Autozone), Big Crank, and Deka, all are the exact same US made battery.
http://www.federalbatteries.com.au/ETX15/ made by this company http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/
https://www.autozone.com/miscellaneous-non-automotive/motorcycle-and-power-sport-battery/duralast-gold-powersport-agm-battery/350078_0_0
https://www.batterymart.com/p-Big-Crank-ETX15-Battery.html

The same Ah rating as the stock Yuasa YB14A-A2, but 30 CCA more. It's also AGM, which handle vibrations better. It does weight a few pounds more than the stock battery. The terminals are much more robust than the Yuasa.


My next choice would be a lithium type battery, but they're nearly double the cost. They save a lot of weight though and don't discharge as rapidly when stored. I've been using one on a motorcycle of mine for years, again, they're expensive and I'm not able to put them on everything because of the price.

[wellys88]

That AGM looks good.

[ps2fixer]

A healthy Lead acid (or AGM) doesn't discharge very fast at all, unless you're talking months. It's critical for them to stay above their min voltage though (like 11.6v).

If I was to go with a lead acid style battery, I'd buy the same brand OEM used. I've seen those batteries last for a very long time. The one in my 99 warrior lasted a good 13 years or so and I traded it to a friend for a new ebay special one because my battery fit his machine, the one he bought was too big, but fit my machine. It lasted about a year, wish I never traded the OEM one away. It was a flooded lead acid style and I kept it full of acid, and I put acid in it myself, so it wasn't from sitting around dead. It developed a self discharge problem quite quickly though.

I have no experience on the Li-Ion batteries, but for the 18650 cells used in laptop batteries, they are very solid. I bought a bunch of "junk" laptop batteries that have been sitting dead for atleast a year or two, and I still was able to bring 50-60% of the cells back to life and have respectable capacity (yea I tested them). Plan was a house battery for storing power and such, but haven't gotten to far on that, so it's just a ton of cells to use in my LED head lamp.