Let's discuss trikes in different countries.

[swampthang]

Just thinking about this today. What different models and years of 3wheelers where produced and sold in other parts of the world then America? I've hear of the Super Reds (Big Red) ran till about 1988 in some countries. 200x quad sold in Mexico I think it was? and thought I read somewhere where Tri-z where sold in some European countries until something like 1990?? Any info,pic, insight lol.:lol::lol:

[swampthang]

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/album.php?albumid=782 Found a Link to the Fourtrax 200x.

[Leevvii]

Ineresting topic, I dont believe, from what i remember and just researched, that Australia actually banned them, the manufactures just stopped making them due to the US ban on importing them, i can find no details of legislation that say we banned them over here, first study on ATV safety was in 2011 when "Australia's Heads of Workplace Safety Authorities (HWSA) in 2011 released a strategy intended to reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries associated with quad-bike use" mostly farm related accident were the concern.
An interesting thing i also read, concerning US 3 wheeler law was [though i could not find any info to support this quote]
"Three-wheelers can still be continued to be built and sold by American manufacturers if any chose to build them."

[oldoo]

Ineresting topic, I dont believe, from what i remember and just researched, that Australia actually banned them, the manufactures just stopped making them due to the US ban on importing them, i can find no details of legislation that say we banned them over here, first study on ATV safety was in 2011 when "Australia's Heads of Workplace Safety Authorities (HWSA) in 2011 released a strategy intended to reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries associated with quad-bike use" mostly farm related accident were the concern.
An interesting thing i also read, concerning US 3 wheeler law was [though i could not find any info to support this quote]
"Three-wheelers can still be continued to be built and sold by American manufacturers if any chose to build them."

Hey mate, fellow skip here

As far as I know trikes are banned from all AMA events. Yes there may not be a legislation ban here as there was in the us. Hopefully this changes soon as people are trying to bring the trikes back which would be great.

Cheers


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[ps2fixer]

Going from memory (I'm USA based), Uk and Canada + probably more had the 84 atc200es run into the 85 model year. Same with the ATC250es for the 87 model running into 88 with slight changes (I think that was the only year for the gray seat, right?).

Besides those two models, I haven't really seen anyone talking about differences for USA vs other countries. I do sell parts international on eBay and so far no ignition switches or harnesses have been returned for not fitting the application which is USA based year/models.

I guess this goes without saying the possible 1987 ATC250R and ATC350X, but they never were mass produced, maybe a prototype exists yet, and of course whatever machines were used for the brochure photos.

This is a pretty interesting topic for myself, so subbing to the thread for any other models. Even differences for the same year/model but country to country there's differences would be interesting to see.

[200Maniac]

Pretty sure Canadian models/line ups identical to US. Only difference maybe English/French stickers. The Big Red in 85 was the 250ES. There may have been 87s, but even by 86, the 4 wheelers were coming on strong. Not that many 87s sold I'd say if any... not that many 86s for that matter.

[200Maniac]

Does anyone agree 85 must be the pinnacle year..with the 85 250R and the 85 250ES being awesome evolutions of the whole genre. Plus that year still had some classic looking machines, like the 200m/200s, and last year for 70.

Those trikes had better styling than some of the late 80s/early 90s Honda quads... like that upright engine trx125 and that 200 with the bubble butt trunk... fugly.

[ps2fixer]

Does anyone agree 85 must be the pinnacle year..with the 85 250R and the 85 250ES being awesome evolutions of the whole genre. Plus that year still had some classic looking machines, like the 200m/200s, and last year for 70.

Those trikes had better styling than some of the late 80s/early 90s Honda quads... like that upright engine trx125 and that 200 with the bubble butt trunk... fugly.

Yea seems like 85 was a pretty big year across models. If I recall correctly the highest sale of a single model/year was the 1984 ATC200ES. Don't forget 85 was when the ATC350X was introduced too which is my personal favorite machine, and second favorite also introduced in 85 was the ATC250SX.

Don't know a whole lot about the early TRX models, but I suspect the upright TRX125 engine is the same as the upright ATC125M engine? Not sure what the design goal was for that, maybe to appear like the bigger models.

I might have gotten the Canadian thing wrong, I swear someone was talking about a 88 250es or a 85 200es in the past from Canada though lol. My memory defo isn't perfect though. Also pretty sure 85 was the last big year for sales, 86 and 87 sales tapered down a lot likely because of all the "issues" with 3 wheelers in the eyes of the media and such. Quads have their place, and that kick started the quad sales, but I always wonder what if there was no negative press on the 3 wheelers, where would they have gone in say 5-10 years.

[swampthang]

Hard to say how long 3wheelers would have been around if there wasn't a ban. Pretty clear USA was the main buyer sense other countries weren't banned and there sales weren't good enough to keep manufacturing them. Sales and demand is all they look at. Just look at what has happened in the last 10 years with sport quads,gone. Big ticket manufacturers are exploiting now is SXS. Look how expensive they are to buy and how much the accessories cost. Why spend the money on building atvs worth half the sales price and how much can you spend on atv accessories vs SXS buy in price and outragous accessory cost.

[Tri-Z 250]

I enjoy member pics from all over the World...In 30+yrs these things could possible exist on every Continent. Does 3WheelerWorld cover the globe?

[keister]

The most visible difference to me being every trike sold in Canada was different than every trike sold in the US. Canadian trikes have 2 sets of reflectors (front and rear).


Does anyone agree 85 must be the pinnacle year..with the 85 250R and the 85 250ES being awesome evolutions of the whole genre. Plus that year still had some classic looking machines, like the 200m/200s, and last year for 70.

1985 was absolutely the banner year for ATCs. Last of the 70, first 350x, liquid R, and full suspension Big Red. Team green might argue otherwise considering the second gen Tecate was 86-87.

[ps2fixer]

Yea side by sides are the big hit thing. It's probably a perception thing too, you're inside a roll cage kind of like a car, so the driver/rides feel safer etc vs saddled up on a quad or 3 wheeler. Ironically my dad bought a big red, $12k new with cash and it included the cab top, back and windshield, but he did a ton of shopping around to get that price and we drove something like 600 miles to get it vs $14k+ locally w\o the extras. I have a hard time forking out that kind of money when you can take a old beater truck, shorten it up and have basically the same thing with more power, stronger axles/hualing ability (work wise), and parts are much easier to get cheap. Down side of course is suspension isn't amazing so off roading likely will be slower, and the fact it's front engine instead of mid engine. My dad's machine was bought for work, and it's hauled a ton of wood in the last 2 years, somewhere around 120 face cord (wood for 3 people + extra to sell). 4 wheel diff lock is nice, not a common option on cheap trucks, big time small ones.

I agree USA is probably the #1 buyers, seems we like to beat on stuff, if it wasn't for quads/3wheelers/snowmobiles etc, there's be more people beating on old trucks/cars and such. I do both atc's and cars/trucks lol. It's amazing how much abuse a 1992 Toyota Corolla can take across 5 years. Need to change the oil in it some day lol, not bad for a $250 beater + head gasket job. It's my truckolla till I get a proper truck platform going for a yard machine, likely a 1993 Toyota 4Runner, ironically head gasket job for that one too (only two I've ever owned that needed that job out of 40+ others).

As far as 3ww being world wide, nothing stops anyone from typing in 3wheelerworld.com in their browser, but language barriers is the likely the limiting factor. The great firewall of china might have the site blocked too for censorship, same goes for other countries that censor their internet access to the public. Photos are always fun to look at though :P.

EDIT: Oh yea the reflectors on the Canadian machines makes a lot more sense now, I saw it was optional in the parts diagrams, but didn't know they were more common or required in Canada. I guess that goes for cars/trucks too, day time running lights seems to be a requirement there based on wire diagrams from the early 90s on having CA with DRL and USA w\o them.

[swampthang]

Here's something else to think about. Honda ATC built in Japan. How many do you think actually where sold in Japan? I have yet to see a picture or video of a Japanese dude man handling a Big Red threw the Forest of Japan. Wheres all the Great Japanese ATC Racers? For that matter did 3wheeler racing ever really take off in other countries?

[ps2fixer]

I personally wouldn't think Japan had much of a market for ATVs for pleasure like USA, however from my understanding the ATC90 was designed for Rice fields, basically extreme swampy type of ground where high flotation tires and a very light machine is needed. the ATC90/US90 giant balloon tires put less pressure on the ground per square inch than a person standing on their own feet. Seems like the same logic can be applied to sand dunes (seems the atc90 is a fairly common pick if you discount the 250r/350x's for their raw power). I live way east of the big sand dunes though, maybe someone from California can chime in on that claim.

[ironchop]

Here's something else to think about. Honda ATC built in Japan. How many do you think actually where sold in Japan? I have yet to see a picture or video of a Japanese dude man handling a Big Red threw the Forest of Japan. Wheres all the Great Japanese ATC Racers? For that matter did 3wheeler racing ever really take off in other countries?Yeah good questions



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[ironchop]

..... The great firewall of china might have the site blocked too for censorship, .....

They do

That's why Camexican hasn't been on this week. When he travels to China, he can't login to 3WW from there



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[200Maniac]

The most visible difference to me being every trike sold in Canada was different than every trike sold in the US. Canadian trikes have 2 sets of reflectors (front and rear).



1985 was absolutely the banner year for ATCs. Last of the 70, first 350x, liquid R, and full suspension Big Red. Team green might argue otherwise considering the second gen Tecate was 86-87.

Oh yes, the 350x! Of course the 250sx too... which is probably the closest thing to a sport trike we had in our area growing up. A buddy of mine upgraded his 110 back in the day and convinced his dad to get the SX over the Big Red.. Enough utility for what his dad wanted, and a little sportier for him.

Going from memory 85: ATC 70, 110 (?) , 125m, 200s , 200m, 200x (last gen? or same as 84?), 250 ES, 250 SX, 250 R, 350X (85.5?)

[ironchop]

I'm not so sure that trikes would still be produced in those kinds of numbers today as they were from 69-87. If so, it would be in very small numbers in my worthless opinion

New Quads were already on the market and selling in 1983. Suzuki was dumping their R&D money into quads since 82, I think, which is arguably why you never saw a Suzuki sport trike. I remember riding a Suzuki quad in 1984 and thinking how forgiving it was to ride compared to the 200S I was used to and alot of other people were noticing this as well. The Quadsport came out and sold very well in my neck of the woods with the Quadracer right behind that and they were selling for a year unopposed before the TRX250R arrived in 1986.

Yeah, the media complained about trike safety but they complained about dirt bikes, mopeds, minibikes, buggies, sandrails, Corvairs, Chevy pickups, and the Ford Pinto as well. I honestly think that the production cessation demand wasn't fought that hard by three of the big four manufacturers because Suzuki didn't bother with trikes anymore anyway and Honda wasn't ten minutes behind Suzuki with their own quads with Polaris, Yamaha, and Kawasaki eventually getting on the bandwagon shortly thereafter. They knew that the future consumer wanted a more user friendly machine that appeared safer for the inexperienced and the lazy riders... This is eventually what happened to quads as well. They got bigger and then they were designed to carry two-up riders. They started making the equivalent of Lay-Z-boy recliners with armrests and cupholders and whizzbangs to put on your quad for your passenger. Then naturally, I think it moved on to UTVs, like Corey said, where you drive a mini buggy that's wrapped in a cage with a full harness on your seat. You can be as irresponsible, inexperienced, and lazy as you want because you have the added safety features of full cage and seatbelts.

After all, it's the lazy, irresponsible, and inexperienced that tend to end up in the emergency room and then on 20/20 so a market that's looking to protect itself from lost profits from safety troubles will start designing machines to be more dummy proof and that seems to be the direction this market has gone. The whole entire sport and it's market has always been negatively influenced by it's lowest common denominator.

So let's say you're a new hipster parent who grew up in town far from ATVs or trails. You want an adventure machine for the whole family so what are you going to put your kids/wife/husband in? A buggy with belts and cages or a giant quad with heel guards and mudflaps?

If Honda would have added a second seat next to the driver on their Oddysey and Pilot models, they would have had a twenty year jump on the market and maybe we'd have skipped quads altogether in this natural progression from living on the edge with trikes to off-roading inside of safety cages with Rzrs

These are just my silly theories

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[200Maniac]

The most visible difference to me being every trike sold in Canada was different than every trike sold in the US. Canadian trikes have 2 sets of reflectors (front and rear).



1985 was absolutely the banner year for ATCs. Last of the 70, first 350x, liquid R, and full suspension Big Red. Team green might argue otherwise considering the second gen Tecate was 86-87.


From footage of some northern communities, skidoos/trikes/quads used like cars.. surprised they didn't mandate brake lights! Even some not-so north rural places atvs used quite a bit on and around the roads. Alaska must be the same?

Where I was back in the 80s, there was no official trail system... basically just Crown land and we had the full run if it... bikes did not even need registration and could generally just pull into a gas station to fill up. We weren't that rural but from my backyard I could jump on a trail (private land but they didn't care), then jump on the train tracks and go any direction on crown land over the old woods roads, trails, bogs, rivers you name it. In winter of course with the lakes and ponds frozen it was even more options. It was great if there was a guy with a skidoo to break the trail, but the trikes could be pretty good in snow from what I remember. We were kids and I remember me and a friend arguing with some other guys that quads would never catch on cause they'd be crap in the snow.. . but then someone in town got an 86? TRX350 4x4... doh. Then, of course it was "fine then, but if you get stuck you're screwed...". From experience we knew it only took a few 12 year olds to lift/pull/pry/tug a big red out of a some pretty nasty holes,.... Even one tiny 12 yo (me) with a few sticks, some boughs, and the right throttle control can do wonders...

Anyways enough memory lane!

[200Maniac]

My memory lane has 3 ruts..

[swampthang]

When Honda Discontinued there sport quads a few years back they made a statement that they would keep an eye on the market and if it turned around that they would bring them back...yeah right. How is there a market to keep an eye on if Yamaha is the only one selling a sport quad? But I guess you never know all it takes is one machine to turn the market on its head look what happened with the 400ex in 1999 started the atv boom. But then again the Yamaha Rhino started the SXS craze know look at whats going on, nearly $30k SXS on the market.:crazy:

[Rob Canadian]

Yup we had reflectors in Canada. Safety first. :)

I think we had some different colours also(?) on our seats. Blue compaired to black on certain models.

[200Maniac]

When Honda Discontinued there sport quads a few years back they made a statement that they would keep an eye on the market and if it turned around that they would bring them back...yeah right. How is there a market to keep an eye on if Yamaha is the only one selling a sport quad? But I guess you never know all it takes is one machine to turn the market on its head look what happened with the 400ex in 1999 started the atv boom. But then again the Yamaha Rhino started the SXS craze know look at whats going on, nearly $30k SXS on the market.:crazy:

Speaking of Canadian differences, Canada only has Rubicon, Foreman, and TRX420... that's it for Honda 2018 quads!

We lost the TRX90, 250x a few years ago...

[200Maniac]

Speaking of Canadian differences, Canada only has Rubicon, Foreman, and TRX420... that's it for Honda 2018 quads!

We lost the TRX90, 250x a few years ago...

And from the pics, not even sure if reflectors come standard!

[ps2fixer]

For fun I searched 3 wheeler japan on google images to see if anything came up. Tons and tons of mopeds, motorcycles, and 3 wheeled cars came up including the Toyota i-Road which was new to me. Even found a photo of a person riding a 3 wheeler in Japan, just a little different than I imagined though...

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/batman-exists-he-was-spotted-driving-a-batpod-on-a-japanese-highway-photo-gallery-85660.html

Only in Japan!

[200Maniac]

Actually, did Canada not get the 86 200s and 125m (upright motor)?

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/Brochures/ATCsite/86fulllineup.html (US)

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/Brochures/ATCsite/86Fourtrax-ATC.html (CAN)

[swampthang]

Actually, did Canada not get the 86 200s and 125m (upright motor)?

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/Brochures/ATCsite/86fulllineup.html (US)

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/Brochures/ATCsite/86Fourtrax-ATC.html (CAN)


And where's their 86 TRX 250R?

[200Maniac]

Yup we had reflectors in Canada. Safety first. :)

I think we had some different colours also(?) on our seats. Blue compaired to black on certain models.

For all models, the US color was different from our colour.

[ps2fixer]

Interesting catch on the seats, didn't know about that. Most US models were black seats till around 85 or so? I know the 83-84 250r had a blue seat, but basically all the smaller models were black except the 200x off the top of my head.

@ironchop's theory

Fully support it, it kind of adds to the day and age we live in, no one wants to take responsibility for their actions, so the things they use have to be "stupid proof" for them to be happy. I'd rather ride the death trap of a 3 wheeler for pleasure than a side by side or even an off road truck. But for work, give me the more capable machine that fits in the area the work is to be performed (big red, 3 wheeler or side by side, or a 4x4 truck etc).



Around my area it was illegal to ride atvs/atcs on the side of the road, a few did it anyway but not many. It just recently was passed a few years ago to allow atvs, and I haven't looked into the wording up the updated law but it did lump 3 wheeled atvs with snowmobiles as not being allowed. I know the upper half of Michigan is a lot more open on the laws, one county north of me and it's legal for snowmobiles and atvs on the roads. Not sure about the laws, but Kentucky/Ohio boarder area has a lot of people riding on the roads too. I do know any federal road it's banned on, but not too many atvs can even meet the 75mph speed limit on the express way lol.


I can't believe Honda got out of sport quads?! It seems true though, the most sports quad I see in the model listing for 2018 machines is a TRX250X. I guess I better get a TRX450R before the market eats them up and they end up like 3 wheelers with higher and higher prices. I know there's the 700xx and such, I think the 450r is a pretty happy medium for size vs power etc. I guess it's debatable if the TRX680 Rincon is a sports quad or not since it's listed as a "Sport Utility" model. It's faster than a stock 350x in a straight line race, but they are heavy. My dad does pretty well on one though, and I've always kept up with him while trail riding. I think his machine tops out slightly faster than mine, but it's also double the cc's.

Maybe there's too many people like me that buy used sport models instead of new. Heck where is atv racing going to go, or is that canceled too (makes sense, I don't watch it, but I've seen it on tv when I was a kid ~15 years ago). Could be the flip side, Honda just doesn't want the possible liability if the public suddenly sees sports quads as unsafe because there's no roll cage etc in the design or whatever (like the 3 wheeler coverage in the late 80s).

[200Maniac]

For all models, the US color was different from our colour.

For models with black colored seats in the US, Canada had black coloured seats.

[200Maniac]

And where's their 86 TRX 250R?

Who knows.. may have never been sold here. Stopped keeping tabs around 86-87.. Anyone know?

My guess is the US had/has way higher proportion sport market. ATVs more expensive in Canada, skidoos might scratch that itch for a lot of people, yada yada...

[200Maniac]

So I guess the 86 200s in the US was the last of what I would call a "classic" ATC. Bubble tank, hard rear, pull start...

[swampthang]

I don't know much about what it would take to set the machines up in a factory to build an ATV or if Honda would have kept any of the molds/jigs and whatever else they would of had to built a trike back in the day but could you imagine if they was to come back with a NEW retro Atc even if it was for a special limited one year only production. Build the 1987 250r or 350x and sell it as a new machine. I guarantee every single one would sell even if it was $7000 guys would buy it just knowing it would be a valued collector item.

[oldskool83]

You want a new 250R/350x/ or any year 200x email HRE. he will build you a new frame and swinger...rest is one you.

[200Maniac]

Is it possible to build say a 70 from just current after market parts without having to DIY? including frame? Though stock-like frame not impossible to make?

I was thinking about getting a POS 125M but use older 90/110 style plastics/headlight, tank and ribbed seat to give it that 70s/early 80s look.. Looks cooler IMO, and I would think would be easier to find/replace the cosmetic pieces.. unlike the seat-over-tank setup

[Leevvii]

I used to ride with a friend back in the 90's, who modified the 200X motor into a honda 90 style barrel configuration, as in layed down jug about 30deg to horizontal, they called it "Projext X", think it was put into a honda 90 trike, and a 2 wheeler honda 90 "postie bike", i was lucky enough to see the 90[200 Projext X] trike in action, blew me away. Is that a common mod over there?
Another mate put a YZ 80J engine into a Honda 70 trike, complete with the handlebar mounted radiator from the 80J, he called it "the goat", as it did resemble a small goat with the radiator in front, power to weight was amazing, i wrode it twice, .....ffffaaaaarrrrg, it could pass a 250R on beach straights and keep going, only handling was the issue, not the most stable of beasts, those were the days

[ps2fixer]

Doing major mods to engines isn't all that common over here, however I do recall a person took a 250R engine and laid the cylinder down to make it more like the atc70/90/110/125m engines and somehow fit it in a atc70 frame. Never seen it in person, but man that thing must be a death trap lol.

Found it, can't seem to find photos but here's a youtube vid link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=x-POdl4f1r8

[greenhuman]

I used to ride with a friend back in the 90's, who modified the 200X motor into a honda 90 style barrel configuration, as in layed down jug about 30deg to horizontal, they called it "Projext X", think it was put into a honda 90 trike, and a 2 wheeler honda 90 "postie bike", i was lucky enough to see the 90[200 Projext X] trike in action, blew me away. Is that a common mod over there?
Another mate put a YZ 80J engine into a Honda 70 trike, complete with the handlebar mounted radiator from the 80J, he called it "the goat", as it did resemble a small goat with the radiator in front, power to weight was amazing, i wrode it twice, .....ffffaaaaarrrrg, it could pass a 250R on beach straights and keep going, only handling was the issue, not the most stable of beasts, those were the days
That's my Project X engine mod. Only in the ATC70 frame. I am still doing the 200x mod and also CRF230 electric start out to 290cc's and am still working on a 320cc version with DOHC four valve top end[ATTACH=CONFIG]255195[/ATTACH

[greenhuman]

I have a 70 with a build date of 11/86

[ps2fixer]

I have a 70 with a build date of 11/86

Could you post a photo of the build date and the machine? Could be wrong but pretty sure that build date would make it a 1987 model. The last year of the ATC70 was 1985 in the USA, 86 & 87 got a TRX70 though.

[Henrii]

In France the ATCs had some success. There were even ATC-only clubs all around the country.
They have never really been officially banned but the FFMoto (official association which organizes the competitions and affiliate clubs) did not want to hear any more about it since 1987, which put an end to the competitions and selling of the ATC in France.
You will find vintage photos on http://www.passion-atc.com/?page=archives

[El Camexican]

Three wheeled vehicles continue to thrive all over the world with the exception of the countries that claims to be the beacons of free will and thought. Street legal bike conversions with reverse hardware all the way up to 5 ton behemoths with dump boxes. Ironic isn’t it?

255203

255204

255205

255206

[swampthang]

The guys that where running the show for Honda Back in the 80s really knew what they was doing. Just look at how fast they could kick out the new machines. New exciting machines every year or two and improvements to existing models. In a very short time look at where they went from. 1980 no sport trikes and a 185 with no suspension was the top of the line bad boy. 1985 a showroom full of awesomeness we may never see again from Honda. Now days look at them... Still a 250 Recon on the showroom after 21 years kill that thing already. And a 15 year old Rincon as there top of the line model:rolleyes: The 2015+ Rubicon restored some faith in Honda but the price and a top speed around 40mph sucks. I hear people saying 2020 will be a big year for Honda I hope they need it.

[El Camexican]

The guys that where running the show for Honda Back in the 80s really knew what they was doing.

They sure did. Their patent lawyers kept the other three Japanese players out of the market for years. They didn’t start stepping it up until the other brands entered the market. The massive lineups of 1985 almost killed the Japanese manufactures. Yamaha in particular. I doubt we’ll ever see a catalog like that again.

[swampthang]

They sure did. Their patent lawyers kept the other three Japanese players out of the market for years. They didn’t start stepping it up until the other brands entered the market. The massive lineups of 1985 almost killed the Japanese manufactures. Yamaha in particular. I doubt we’ll ever see a catalog like that again.

What ways did Honda try to slow the rest down? I know the ATC Name was a big deal Honda wanted for them selves but what else? Speaking of Yamaha the 225DX was a game changer. 1983 4stroke full suspension shaft drive electric start and a plastic gas tank. I always like them better then the 250SX for some reason.

[El Camexican]

What ways did Honda try to slow the rest down? I know the ATC Name was a big deal Honda wanted for them selves but what else? Speaking of Yamaha the 225DX was a game changer. 1983 4stroke full suspension shaft drive electric start and a plastic gas tank. I always like them better then the 250SX for some reason.

They had a zillion patents on every aspect of three wheelers. I don’t know all the details, but I recall it’s why the Yamaha engines were located so far back in the frames. Throughout the 70’s no one else was able to put a three wheeler into the market. don’t get me wrong, I’d do exactly the same thing if I could from a business perspective, I just want to make sure the younger guys on here know that Honda had a legal lock on the trike market for over a decade and then extended its dominance with additional patents.

[greenhuman]

Could you post a photo of the build date and the machine? Could be wrong but pretty sure that build date would make it a 1987 model. The last year of the ATC70 was 1985 in the USA, 86 & 87 got a TRX70 though.
I always refer to it as an '87 but have been shot down a few times. Anything built after the 9th month was reffered to as the next years model so this having a build date of 11/86 makes it an 87 in my eyes. The side from sticker says 1985 model but the build date on this sticker is 11/86 as well. Honda probably called all these late builds 85's because of the ban.255208

[swampthang]

They had a zillion patents on every aspect of three wheelers. I don’t know all the details, but I recall it’s why the Yamaha engines were located so far back in the frames. Throughout the 70’s no one else was able to put a three wheeler into the market. don’t get me wrong, I’d do exactly the same thing if I could from a business perspective, I just want to make sure the younger guys on here know that Honda had a legal lock on the trike market for over a decade and then extended its dominance with additional patents.

I guess it would have been like when they first started building cars. They wanted to Patent the way they was built to try and make it their own design to kill the competition.

[swampthang]

I always refer to it as an '87 but have been shot down a few times. Anything built after the 9th month was reffered to as the next years model so this having a build date of 11/86 makes it an 87 in my eyes. The side from sticker says 1985 model but the build date on this sticker is 11/86 as well. Honda probably called all these late builds 85's because of the ban.255208

Very interesting on the build date vs sticker year. I have seen some 1988 250ES pictures before. Not sure why they did that on your 70.

[ps2fixer]

Yea that's interesting, was the ATC more popular in AU or something? Maybe Honda wanted to milk the market a bit more by selling "old" 1985 atc70's but continued to manufacture them (hence the build date). Just speculation. A bit on the personal info side of things, but wonder what the VIN number shows for the year, did they use 1985 or 1987 (need an ATC vin decoder).

I'd assume the machine is exactly the same as any other 1985 atc70. I don't know the atc70's well enough to suggest anything to look for though. I see near the bottom right of the sticker it says something about Minibike? Not sure if that's on the other atc70s or not.

I guess it's worth mentioning, it's possible the sticker is fake unless you've owned it since late 86. But if it is faked, it was done a while ago looking at the sticker wear.


@ the legal talk, seems like USA patents wouldn't effect Japanese companies, I would suspect the only time it truly effects them is when they sell within the US market. Aka US law doesn't effect Japanese people directly unless they provide a service/product to the US market. I'm correct on this thinking right? Wonder if there's any models made exclusively for non-US that used a designe that were not allowed in the US via patents.

Talking about old trucks/cars, seems like Japanese companies copied each other a fair bit. Like a 1989 Mazda B2600i has a lot of characteristics of a 1984-1988 Toyota pickup (Hilux for other countries) in their base design (frame/axle etc). I'd half expect some parts would interchange on the rear axle, but maybe the axles were outsourced to the same company like what the US companies do with Dana axles.

[rayatc84]

Here we have OEM white Zingers and Honda sold ATC until 1989 as shown in the table below (official Honda sale figures obtained from a former Honda dealer, the bigest ATC seller back in the days)255214

[ps2fixer]

I take it those numbers are for France? Crazy how the US sales numbers peak over 200k for a single year/model (84 atc200es) vs the 200es in that diagram being 50 total for both years sold. Can't seem to find the source I'm thinking of, it might have been total units sold world wide. Defo interesting numbers. According to those numbers, clearly 84-86 were the best years by sales count. Crazy half the machines sold in that diagram are atc70 and atc125m's, over here the 125m was pretty popular, but the atc70 you have to dig a little to find. I've owned one atc70, and two 125m. Most common I'd say is the 200es, I've owned 5+ of them. When I first got the 3 wheeler bug, I bought any and every machine that was affordable, mainly targeting neglected trashed machines.

[rayatc84]

Yes they are the sales in France only.
You can easily understand why parts are so hard to find here...
I believe I've only seen 2 or 3 200ES for sale during the last 2 decades...

[ps2fixer]

That's crazy. I watched craigslist pretty close over here and after about 2 years I got one, then within a month later got a second one, both for fair/cheap prices.

I've always wanted to ride a Odyssey, the sold rear axle should make it interesting being a sort of go cart layout. They don't come up for sale often, and generally one that needs a lot of work is $1000+. Would love to find one that I could make go for like $500 lol. To put it in perception, my 350x was $800, my beater 350x was super cheat $275, and most parts machines I got around $150-250 into them.

[swampthang]

That's some great info there rayatc84! Looks like you guy's didn't get any 350x or 250sx? Also shows a 1984 250es?

[greenhuman]

The sticker and vin label are not fake. I got this trike from the original owner years ago. An old guy who only used it on the golf course. It has a slightly rusty band going diagonally across the top of the tank. I could never figure this one out till I sat on it one day talking a mate. The old golfer must have rode it side saddle to the next shot and his sweaty leg affected the paint on top of the tank. Yewww. One thing I notice is it has a small Unleaded Fuel Only sticker near the filler cap.

[200Maniac]

When I think of ATCs, I don't really think of France... although the trois-roues were(are) very popular with your long-lost cousins in Quebec and Canada !

Were trikes popular in Scandinavia? Figure more room to ride around up there?

I remember a TV show from the UK called "Super Gran".. the opening credits had a grand-ma jumping an early 82ish 250R... used to watch the show just for that!

Also, do UK trikes have gear shifter on the right? :lol:

Wasnt the Big Red called "Super Red" in some markets outside North America?

[swampthang]

Does anybody know what year they started talking about starting the 3wheeler ban in USA? What year did the actual paper work get started?

[ps2fixer]

I don't have hard facts on that or anything, but I suspect somewhere around 85 since sales declined for 86 on by huge numbers and 87 was just tiny sales vs 85. 84 and 85 were both very strong years for Honda atleast.

[swampthang]

My theory is Honda stop the US sales of the ATC 70 to try an smooth over the bad rap 3wheelers where getting for killing kids. When your being accused of something terrible like that wouldnt it sound better when you can say we discontinued our children sized 3wheeler for the more safe 4wheeler version you should buy that if you value your childrens safety. This may explain why there is some late 80s atc 70s running around in other countries. They already had them built in a warehouse somewhere and needed to dump them somewhere. Same with the other machines just burning off excess inventory.

[200Maniac]

Google says the ban was '88? The 20/20 TV report seemed to be a watershed moment for opinion... which was 87 according to youtube..

Among our family and cousins etc, we had 200E/200s/200m. Even tho he ended up with a 200m, I remember an uncle saying in '83 he would probably get a Suzuki quad cause they were "safer and have reverse" ... Pretty sure people questioned their safety very early on..

[ps2fixer]

We had some 87 machines sold in the USA, I believe the ban happened mid 87 and Honda ordered the dealers to destroy the existing machines. Of my understanding a lot of engines were pulled from the machines and wiring was cut to make it quick and that's what you see once in a while as a "NOS" engine and the wires are cut for the stator and such. There's no 88 3 wheelers here at all except ones imported from other countries. I guess you could say the ban was in full effect in 88, but started in 87.

[rayatc84]

That's some great info there rayatc84! Looks like you guy's didn't get any 350x or 250sx? Also shows a 1984 250es?

No, 350X and 250SX have not been sold in France, but also '81 250R.
Some 350X have been imported by individuals or others but not by Honda. I have seen 7-8 350X here, but there may be some others.
Same for 250SX; I have seen 2 '85 models, one of them have been bought by my Buddy Pote (akka "Pote swiss" on the board) and is now in Switzerland.

"1984 250ES" are certainly '85 250ES sold in the end of 1984, same than the 37 250R sold in 1982 are '82 250R because '81 250R have not been sold here.

[rayatc84]

Were trikes popular in Scandinavia? Figure more room to ride around up there?

I don't know, but I suppose not realy; I never saw infomations about this.
There was 1 Swedish member on 3WO, another one on AF and in 2010 Billy told me a couple Swedes were members of this board.

[ironchop]

I don't know, but I suppose not realy; I never saw infomations about this.
There was 1 Swedish member on 3WO, another one on AF and in 2010 Billy told me a couple Swedes were members of this board.So I'm guessing that the 65 ATC200X units sold there in 1988 were probably 1987 models or no?

Thanks for that chart. Very interesting data

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