‘82 250R-put away wet

[Jd110]

Greetings!!
Picked this up this week w/o the top end and pipe. That’s it...so I hoped, but not as easy as picking those up and having a running 2-stroke trike.
Tipped it over yesterday to start cleaning it and a cup of water poured out. Drained oil-no water.
It will definitely be a learning process for me but, I plan to get it going.

Ok, I’m wondering what should be done. Can I pour diesel in there to flush out the rest of the water?254921 Or will it be more than that. Other than that, appears to be in great shape:)

254923
Thank you.
Edit for before picture.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181211/0e5a2d57942bc6b9c3c6830b212ed4a9.jpg

[yaegerb]

Split the cases and at the very least. Replace the crank bearings and seals and get a new connecting rod installed with big end bearing.

[Jd110]

Thanks yaegerb. Good to hear from you. I just got a glimpse of the flywheel—-it’s not pretty. Although, I’m stoked to have it, this might take awhile. First order is a manual.

[atc300r]

Join the facebook aircooled site .Alot of members are from 3ww and air-foolers.Good place to find info and parts.

[Jd110]

300r, thanks. Engine came out easy. I only wanted to clean the chain. Carb cleaned up nicely—might need a little more attention?? A manual is coming, soon, so I’ll try to not do anymore until then, but dang—it’s fun!!
Seller tells me he got it for free, the kids next door were getting rid of their dads stuff after he passed. Also told me it was stored inside as I’m looking at pine needles all over it. Offered him 50 less at 200. 254948
254949

[Jd110]

This trike doesn’t seem as bad as the title. Cleaned out the crankcase real good— diesel and gas flush. I’ve got a manual, but without securing any parts, yet, I haven’t cracked the cases. I’m a little unsure about that. There is no play on the rod.

Grease gun pushed the brake pistons out. Front master was horrible so I sanded the plastic and cleaned inside. Calipers and master cylinders work great. Hopefully, (with help) this trike will amount to something. Thanks

[Jd110]

Thanks to 3ww, cylinder, head & pipe are in route!! I’m unsure about the reeds. Should I buy a used stock cage? I don’t see anything else. What reeds can you suggest I get for a stock 82? Thanks

[yaegerb]

I would use boyesen power reeds. Work well and they are priced affordably.

[ps2fixer]

On the service manual, there's online copies of the actual Honda service manual. For any critical details, I'd reference that manual to be the most accurate. The other branded mauals should be good for general how to's. You can always print the info you need from the digital copy and not care about getting the paper dirty etc.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

I'd guess the transmission is alright, but water in the crank area is bad even short term. I'm with yaegerb, split the cases, and bare min replace the crank bearings, seals, and a rod big end bearing. New rod would never hurt too since it's taken down that far. Splitting the case can be kind of scary, but just follow the service manual and things generally end up fine. If not, post here and we can help with what's missing, what order things should be in etc which is also shown in the manual. I've split a couple of TRX250X engines, it's not that bad when gravity holds everything together and you're just taking one case half off.

Once you get the cylinder and such in the mail, I suspect you'd want to measure it and see if it's standard bore or over sized and buy a new piston/rings to match it, maybe have the cylinder bored if it's standard bore but out of spec, etc. I'm not all that experienced in that area, I just know the piston determines the bore size (always buy the piston first, then have the bore job done to match it). Maybe the piston you have is re-usable, probably depends if it's scored and such.

Anyway, good luck on your build.

[Jd110]

On the service manual, there's online copies of the actual Honda service manual. For any critical details, I'd reference that manual to be the most accurate. The other branded mauals should be good for general how to's. You can always print the info you need from the digital copy and not care about getting the paper dirty etc.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

I'd guess the transmission is alright, but water in the crank area is bad even short term. I'm with yaegerb, split the cases, and bare min replace the crank bearings, seals, and a rod big end bearing. New rod would never hurt too since it's taken down that far. Splitting the case can be kind of scary, but just follow the service manual and things generally end up fine. If not, post here and we can help with what's missing, what order things should be in etc which is also shown in the manual. I've split a couple of TRX250X engines, it's not that bad when gravity holds everything together and you're just taking one case half off.

Once you get the cylinder and such in the mail, I suspect you'd want to measure it and see if it's standard bore or over sized and buy a new piston/rings to match it, maybe have the cylinder bored if it's standard bore but out of spec, etc. I'm not all that experienced in that area, I just know the piston determines the bore size (always buy the piston first, then have the bore job done to match it). Maybe the piston you have is re-usable, probably depends if it's scored and such.

Anyway, good luck on your build.
Hey there, thanks!
I’m not sure if these pictures can tell anything:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181108/42a9d927e011510be7c324d50a2daa50.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181108/0861e21d3f2cb9ea9a61a3b78d89e195.jpg
What would be wrong? I mean what can I look for from looking down in crank area that will tell me it needs new bearings? Or is it a feeling when it is turning? There is red residue inside crank area that isn’t coming off. Other than that it looks good and feels smooth with no up/down play.
Maybe it’s hard to tell without it split open? Oh ya, newbie alert!!


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[ps2fixer]

Water = rust, rust = wear in bearings. It won't be instant, but it *could* be a problem later. The idea is better safe than sorry. Replace bearings now, or the whole crank + bearings etc later. Engines have some pretty extreme conditions they have to hold up to, just think of how much force has to be pressed down to turn that crank, the transmission gears, the chain, axles, tires etc to push you on the machine and go 60mph+ in top gear.

Anyway, ignoring the possible rust factor, there are legit specs to check too. It starts on page 95 of the manual I linked before. It requires some special tools and the crank to be removed to inspect, so still requires the case split.

I guess this can be kind of like baking a raspberry pie, then finding there was bugs in the berries. You could try to pick out the bugs and still eat it, but most people would rather start with a new pie and not risk eating the bugs (the bugs being a failure/issue with the engine later).

At the end of it, it is your machine, your money, and your decision, fully understand trying to save money. Personally if everything appeared good and the bearings seem to be in spec (read the specs in the service manual to get an idea what to look for), I might run it as is after cleaning everything out. I'd probably split it anyway just to be sure no dirt and such got in anything. Dirt + oil/gas = liquid sand paper. It's just good to know the possible risks related to it. I've had 4 stroke engines that had rust in the cylinder and seized up and I broke it free and it ended up running fine and not having any major problems. If it was a post on here, I'd suggest pulling the cylinder off, honing it to clean out the rust etc, because that's the best way to fix it and every situation is different.

The crank seal replacement is still strongly encouraged though, 2 strokes that have an air leak anywhere can run lean, which can cause a lot of damage to the piston/cylinder.

I'd suggest having someone tune the engine after the build to be slightly rich and use a slightly heavier mix of oil than what your oil of pick suggests, for the basic fact it has to break in again and there's extra friction/heat to deal with. Then after a few tanks of gas, have it dialed in for a proper tune with the oil/fuel mixture you plan to run. Of course there's a lot of different opinions on how to break in an engine, not really trying to get into that argument though. It's kind of like buying a new Honda, and running Honda oil for the first few oil changes. In the mind of the owner, they are running the best oil possible for the machine during the break in time, but is Honda oil actually the best can be an argument, but most people can agree good oil is best instead of junk or used oil.

Anyway, I haven't worked on many 250r's, is the rod color normal for that engine? It almost looks like a light layer of rust, but then again almost looks like it's plated with copper. I can see in the bottom of the case has an orangish build up, might be rust, might be whatever is on the rod. I'd want to remove it off the AL in either case. Also the pitting on the crank is one of the reasons I'm in support for replacing the bearings, clear signs that corrosion has happened to some extent.

Doesn't matter what route you go with this, but I hope it all works out well for you in the end. It's not the end of the world if the crank goes bad, it just has to be caught before major problems like the lean condition I mentioned before happens (bad bearings can take out seals quicker).

[yaegerb]

Dave, when you get everything back and you assemble you must at the very least do a pressure test.

[Jd110]

More work, but hey! It’s got to be done. Maybe not by me because I’d like it to be done right lol. Thanks for the push towards the right direction. You’re right, I was ignoring it.

[Jd110]

While waiting for the cylinder to be finished, I’ve just been plugging away. Basically just cleaning things up.
Look at the rust ready to fall off here:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181129/79c1a0b557fd6b431d9a691523719250.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181129/17fac92d6c297b548a28fec4450df483.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181129/f25cf76d73d81503c54565fb8c85021f.jpg
A few holes, but it’ll do.
The foam needs work. I thought to glue thin pieces of foam, cut to fit. Any ideas? Also, any recommendations on where to get a seat cover, please? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181129/d77ef5631afa78ede218396c5fa481bc.jpg
It’s missing the front axle castle nut but I had an extra of a 83’ 200e big red that fit perfectly.
One more ? I’m needing a banjo bolt for front brake caliper and was wondering if one from a 200x is the same? Thanks


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[ps2fixer]

Since you're asking about interchanges, it's probably best to teach you how to check interchange on partzilla.

The simple way to put it, find the part on your machine on the site, and go to the info page about that part and the bottom right side shows the interchange.

Here's the 82 250r front master diagram, banjo bolt is item #14 which has 3 part numbers (likely all interchangeable, sometimes there's a before/after frame serial number note), clicking the top one brings up a million machines and the 83-84 atc200x is in the list. Say your 200x you're trying to source the part from is an 85, do the same process and check if the part number is the same. Which it isn't. Fun though, because it's the same size (10x22) on both machines, I'd think they would still be interchangeable as long as the spot the side hole is drilled is compatible.

82 atc250r
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/1982/atc250r-a/front-brake-master-cylinder

85 atc200x
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/1985/atc200x-a/front-brake-master-cylinder


Same can be done with the front axle nut. 90305-401-680 is $7.38 and in production, so you could get the correct and new part if you wanted. Looked up the 83 200e and it uses the exact same part number of nut too.

This interchange check is a little bit of a pain with their latest update to the site, it used to list all machines that fit the part, now they list like 200 and cut it off. Parts not so common are much easier to check.

[sledcrazyinCT]

The seat pan cleaned up nice. Did you use just vinegar or another rust removal product? Thanks for sharing your build.


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[Jd110]

Thanks for the tip on partzilla. That is much easier and really helpful. Which led me to search for the seat foam.
http://hi-flite-usa.com/product/honda-atc-atc250r-1981-82-seat-foam-and-cover-kit-e163k/
Might just get a new for the price.


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[ps2fixer]

Yea kind of hard to beat that when used seats go for that kind of price on ebay.

[Jd110]

The seat pan cleaned up nice. Did you use just vinegar or another rust removal product? Thanks for sharing your build.


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You bet, sled—my pleasure. Or embarrassment.
Yes, just apple cider vinegar.


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[Jd110]

I’ve received the pipe, head and cylinder:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181211/d2c62a72e04a3e29ff49e1d1ac727ef5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181211/bfe81b40d0cf3101ead8855863967cda.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181211/129f461abf0a3039fb52a92f1a2a6d1d.jpg
I’d like to blast and paint the cylinder. Can I use sand or glass? Tape off all the gasket areas really good? I’ve never done it, so any suggestions would be helpful.
As far as painting, is it safe to have them powdered?



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[yaegerb]

Buy some gorilla tape and tape off all the machines surfaces and don’t be shy with the tape. Make sure it adequately covers and stick to all areas. You don’t want to inadvertently blast your new cylinder. I would use glass bead to blast and yes, powder is perfectly fine to use.

[Jd110]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181213/bbedc5a65d74d5b8ee52377828f68dba.jpg
Thanks, that’s working out sweet. I think...got a tiny bit of glass through the tape. I thought I taped it well enough but apparently not. Hopefully it’s ok. I blew it out real good.

To remove those black rubbers on the head, I was going to heat them up. Sounds good? I actually need a few more. Anyone know their purpose? Keep the integrity of the fins? Maybe their not crucial and I can stop looking.
Got the bearings and just realized I need seals. Next time a get 2-days off, I’ll open it up. Thanks again.


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[yaegerb]

Those rubber bits are just wedged in there. You should be able to pull them out with some needle nose, but heat may help that process. Their purpose is what you said, keep the integrity of the fins and vibration dampening. Put them back in when you are done powdering.

[shortline10]

All correct and I will add that they are for noise as well . The vibration noise without them is horrible .




Those rubber bits are just wedged in there. You should be able to pull them out with some needle nose, but heat may help that process. Their purpose is what you said, keep the integrity of the fins and vibration dampening. Put them back in when you are done powdering.

[Jd110]

All correct and I will add that they are for noise as well . The vibration noise without them is horrible .

Would you know where I could find some? I’d need 4 each of these:https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181214/e192b1e67edebe463d83ec66a8f3b667.jpg
I checked eBay-that’s not going to happen. 25$ plus shipping for 3-pieces and one is literally in 3-pieces. Maybe I could cut them out of thick rubber.
Edit: changed 2 to 4

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[shortline10]

I may have some , I can check this weekend .

[Jd110]

I may have some , I can check this weekend .

Whoa, that would be fabulous. Thanks so much!


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[Jd110]

I may have some , I can check this weekend .

I edited the quantity before your post. Not being greedy. Thanks again


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[Jd110]

Crank checked out to be true and within spec. 256375
Is the kicker return spring normally at an angle? I didn’t get a picture before it separated on me. I think it hooks on the dowel pin but not sure. I can’t tell from the manual picture. Anyway, I tried a test fit and it appears to be really close to the other side case. There is a tiny mark on that side where it possibly touched the side of case, so I’m thinking that is the normal position it sits but thought I’d ask. 256376

[Jd110]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190120/32aeda7272d3297e819b374af1ed7a51.jpg
Got that back in.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190120/547caf6de2d0ebd4a99475330fe66ccf.jpg
I’m putting the top end together, tonight and realized one of the head bolts are bent. When it went to get bored, they asked if It had been dropped upon disassembly because the cast in sleeve was ready to fall off. So it was re-sleeved. Now I need at a new bolt.
Also, the wrong seat was delivered, today. Looks like it’s for a 2nd or 3rd gen. Other than that, I’m lovin’ this baby!! Oh, got my tires mounted last night on some fresh gold!!
Judgment day is right around the corner.


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[Jd110]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190120/f371ba5e88cb79e291033b88b6ba8193.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190120/128003d5a1eb17a1a8c892d47a1ffddf.jpg
It sure does say 82 Atc 250 on back. Maybe it’s correct and I’m missing something but it is obviously longer.


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[ps2fixer]

Weird on the seat, I googled some images of the 82 atc250r and both styles came up. I'm guessing the long style like the new one you got is actually for an 83-84 since it seems like the seat doesn't fit quite right. The blue doesn't look half bad on the 81-82 machines though.

[roostin atc]

Hi flight seat foam vs stock.256787

[Jd110]

That could have been a joke......but it wasn’t. Guess a guy has to learn that someway. ‘Hi-Flite’—-makes since!

Anyway, Hi-Flite did a fine job and sent exactly what I ordered. They mailed it quickly and kept me updated on shipping.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190121/9509836a63864828dde183804bd28b70.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190121/21c507ab73b412c9f343534ac7fcc4e6.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190121/4502174a3f30ca92698d358907234682.jpg


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[Jd110]

Small set-back. I’ve been waiting for a couple small items to button this up. Should be here today. Reading Ironchops post last night (thank you, chop), I realized I improperly set my ring gap. Just glad I caught it now.
Took the cylinder off this morning and ordered new rings. I tried to find an answer by research before I gaped them about a top and bottom ring. Is there a difference? Does the ‘N’ mark face up? Thanks


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[Jd110]

Ok, I think I’ve got it. N mark faces up, top ring is 0.20mm and bottom is 0.40mm. Sound right?


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[yaegerb]

N faces up if it is present on the ring. What do you mean by setting the ring gap? The ring gap would have been set by la sleeve when they fit the piston and honed the cylinder.

[Jd110]

Ok...I didn’t know that. They where both in a sealed/unopened factory bag. Are they gaped the same size? They aren’t marked as far as top/bottom. I will try it again. Thanks

[Jd110]

Just spoke with Dave, at L.A. Sleeve. They don’t set ring end-gaps. They’re supposed to be correct out of the bag. Both rings are the same gap for this wiseco piston. Great folks there, btw. I have set back and think..WTH?? I’ll get it, no worries.


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[yaegerb]

Just spoke with Dave, at L.A. Sleeve. They don’t set ring end-gaps. They’re supposed to be correct out of the bag. Both rings are the same gap for this wiseco piston. Great folks there, btw. I have set back and think..WTH?? I’ll get it, no worries.


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Ok interesting. Well, set your gap at .008”. Get a ring grinder if needs be. They are cheap

[Jd110]

I’m nearly done. Just need to figure out the exhaust seal. It’s taking awhile.
So, I just couldn’t help myself....rolled it out to blow off the dust, lol. Surprisingly, everything is the same in the 1st two pics, except tires and seat.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/57f221a69d82848950cbd88c369b4c7f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/167d5419037e5965a0fc9c3281d9de9a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/91a01f4efbcfea5595f49f9db83b1981.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/1dbacb47187b677a987b12c085d88483.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190209/b3d3966f04e6fa3c7aaa0af719dcbe71.jpg
The jug, head, pipe, heat shields, grips, seat and tires are the only visible difference. I’m pretty excited to hear it sing. Thanks for checking it out.


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[twomanytoys]

Nice transformation!!!!!

[ironchop]

Looks fantastic!

Nice work

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[Jd110]

Forgot to add this....I did do a pressure test. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190210/b7991359c09399af661a366f08f43686.jpg
Don’t need that needle valve. 1st attempt it leaked out of the intake and exhaust port gaskets, almost as fast as put in. Maybe the cheap gaskets? So, I lightly lubed them with grease and it held 6 lbs for 6 minutes. Kept it on for an hour and it held steady. So, hopefully that’s good.
As for the the seals where the pipe meets exhaust flange, I’m not sure what type of seal was original. Where there is an o-ring for some, this has a metal ring with a split in it, that goes in the recessed channel. Apparently, FL350 oddesseys had the same ring, so I ordered one.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190210/ed8ef728d0c31ad55121f594f9ec5605.jpg
I’m trying to figure out what number 7 is in this diagram:
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/atv/1982/atc250r-a/muffler
Is it a copper gasket?
Hey Yaegerb, hope all is well. I couldn’t believe I ran into a guy that had 3 stock pipes and guards hanging from his open garage as I walked by. I asked if he wanted to sell the guard and he says “take the whole thing”-$0. Pretty cool anyways, it’s on because I like the guard & I’m curious how it works. Once I get the jetting right with this, I’m going to try the one you shipped. Thanks again for your help.


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[ironchop]

I know the 85-86 had that split ring and a metallic-type solid oring for a gasket. I think it was made of lead impregnated steel wool. Maybe your 82 used similarhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190210/822b5d76d1e6d973fcdaa0a7c6a1528b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190210/45cf780a6f5e5f7757b6bbe16de2da02.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190210/6431230f466045ba0e55e35a9aef1444.jpg

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[yaegerb]

How does it run?

[barnett468]

Forgot to add this....I did do a pressure test. it held 6 lbs for 6 minutes. Kept it on for an hour and it held steady. So, hopefully that’s good.

ummm...yeah, that's ludicrously good.




As for the the seals where the pipe meets exhaust flange, I’m not sure what type of seal was original. Where there is an o-ring for some, this has a metal ring with a split in it, that goes in the recessed channel.

This is an original honda split ring seal for an 82. Both seals look very similar to the ones ironchop posted for an 85 so the 82 vs the 85 seals look to be the same basic design but may just be slightly different in size. Your existing split ring seal sounds like it is correct and original.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Jt0AAOSwWAhcUYSo/s-l1600.jpg



I’m trying to figure out what number 7 is in this diagram: Is it a copper gasket?


Here's a little better photo of the 82' head pipe seal item 7 and is an nos item. It looks like a soft (possibly asbestos) material that is impregnated with some type of coating.

https://images.cmsnl.com/img/products/gasketexpipe_medium18352961000-01_4d43.jpg

.

[Jd110]

That’s great, thanks guys. Barn, I was told by someone here locally, that it was probably made of lead. So, I have an idea to make one with copper wire and lead. You guys know what’s up!! Seems every time, this group has the answer. I’ve asked several people here locally over the past few weeks.
Chop, I saw that bike master ad. I almost got it the other day, but wasn’t sure about it fitting so, I ordered a Honda ring for the FL350. It’s in Canada so weeks away. Thanks for taking the time to look.


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[Jd110]

How does it run?

Not yet. This is where I could use your advice or even double checking me. I put in a 50 pilot & 152.5 main. Clip is in the middle. 32:1 mix for new top end (Honda hp-2)?
I’ve got a 148(came with trike), 150, 152.5, 158 main.
Should I check the plug after the first start up or heat cycle? I’m not sure how to get it close before I can do a plug chop.

If you have an idea on a temporary seal for the pipe-cylinder, I’m off today and available to start it, which I’m anxious for.


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[atc300r]

This may sound stupid but when I change headlight bulbs I remove the silcone o-ring from the blown bulb and use 2 of them on my aircooled 250r. I have used these for years never had a leak I clean the manifold and pipe well before installing. Pic of the bulbs.257204 257205

[barnett468]

I think the O ring idea is great for the outside of the flange, and have done the same on other vehicles. Viton, silicone, and fluorosilicone have the highest heat resistance. Some ACE True Value hardware stores in my area carry a wide selection of viton seals, so if there is one in your area you could check with them. Seal suppliers and traditional industrial hardware stores should also carry them. Auto parts stores may sell the O rings separately that atc300r posted.

http://mykin.com/rubber-temperature-range


Harbor Freight shows a variety of viton seals, seals, but the package is $10.00.

https://www.harborfreight.com/180-piece-viton-o-ring-kit-67525.html?cid=paid_google|*PLA+-+All+Products+-+Lower+Sales+Items|New+Products+-+%281%29+Price+%3C%2410|67525&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&mkwid=s|pcrid|318476002950|pkw||pmt||pdv|c|slid||p roduct|67525|pgrid|63088204786|ptaid|pla-300425535960|&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtP_iBRDGARIsAEWJA8jUEA_wIDvdDdjZa9Ef TY2_YObP8X2kFGGBUov8nHgM20xGURi1gQ8aAq5hEALw_wcB


As for the soft seal, I have an idea that may work and will post it in around 30 minutes, but I have never seen this seal in person, so I don't know the dimensions, therefore, others here can tell you if my idea may work or they may have a better idea.

.

[barnett468]

Ok, here's just a few suggestions for the soft seal.

1. stack up some O rings until they are the height you need.

2. Use some of the firm type silencer packing and cut it to size. Most motorcycle shops sell it but it might be $10.00.

3. Use some soft, non foil backed, starter motor heat shield wrap and cut it to size. Many auto parts stores sell it but it might be $10.00 or more.

4. Use some soft header wrap and cut it to size. You will likely have to cut 2 or 3 strips then glue them together to get the right thickness. Below are some examples. Auto parts stores should have it but it might be fairly thin, some off road truck stores may have it also, and they may have thicker material, but if it is too rigid, it might not compress enough to seal well, however, the O ring will also seal a bit.


This material is around .060" thick, but it is professional grade and it might be hard to find something this thick.

https://images.craigslist.org/00u0u_1HudGuTmprJ_600x450.jpg


This is the 2 strips standing on their edge.

https://images.craigslist.org/00c0c_f1hRU0U3JTD_600x450.jpg


This is the 2 strips together making it around .120" thick.


https://images.craigslist.org/00w0w_4nwtJo562eY_600x450.jpg


This is one type of header wrap, but you might be able to find some without the foil on it. If you try to peel the foil off, it may or may not pull off a lot of the insulation along with it.

http://www.tpxpowersource.com/images/HP_armor_pic.jpg

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[Jd110]

300r, not at ALL!! I’ve got one (1). It was a bit of a stretch but fits and the pipe fits nice and tight around the flange. If I can nail down the gas/oil mix, I’ll try to fire it up. Thanks for chiming in!
Barn, your posts are very helpful to me, thanks. This o-ring might be temporary.

Edit: ok barn, that’s a lot of info for me to think about. I should stop thinking about starting it for today.

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[barnett468]

300r, not at ALL!! I’ve got one (1). It was a bit of a stretch but fits and the pipe fits nice and tight around the flange. If I can nail down the gas/oil mix, I’ll try to fire it up. Thanks for chiming in!
Barn, your posts are very helpful to me, thanks. This o-ring might be temporary.




I for one think you are fine with the 32:1 for your particular app, but others here that use your particular brand of oil will know. I am running 40:1 Maxima K2 in my 1980 YZ250 race bike and I beat the bejesus out of it the last 6 months on a used engine, and some of that was wot in 100 degree heat, and it hasn't seized yet.

As far as a temporary seal, using the 0 ring by itself is definitely sufficient, and I would put a little grease on it,however, it might spew a little exhaust onto your nice clean engine.

As far as the jetting goes, unless someone suggests something else, if you have the stock pipe and silencer and carb, and the engine is basically stock etc, I would probably go 1 up on the main from stock to start with if you are below around 1500 feet in elevation. If it has an aftermarket silencer, I might try 2 up on the main. It's safer to be a little rich than a little lean.


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[Jd110]

I’m not positive what stock main jet size is I’ve read 150-158. Pretty sure it was 300r that said 152 somewhere. The closest one the Honda shop had was 152.5. My shindy kit came with 150. 148 came out of it(but that could be wrong). I’m going for it real soon. Today!!


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[barnett468]

My guess is that atc300r is likely correct, but I just looked at the online manual in the link below, and the best I can figure out is that the 81, 82, and 83 used the same main jet because there is no addendum for the carb for the 82, and no addendum for the main jet size for the 83. The jet listed at the beginning of the manual says it is a 158 for carb number PE23, and it in the 83 addendum, it states the 83 carb number is PE30, but this does not mean it would have a different main jet, but otherrs here that know these can tell you for certain.


http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

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[barnett468]

Just for general info, the 85/86 manual says the following:

1985 - carb PE37A, main jet 142

1986 - carb P03A, main jet 145

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[Jd110]

What a day!! I wanted to get back here before it got too late. You all know what this means.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190211/d38ef512958a8a37a0645072ae2ab584.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190211/a110fa4b5078d23c77bcb4332b0945a2.jpg
First, I’d like to thank Yaegerb. His knowledge is amazing. This would have been much harder, if even possible, without him. Thanks to him, I changed my main this morning to a 158. Threw the shindy pilot in the trash and put back in the oem 50 pilot.

Anyway, this morning I put gas in the tank and it immediately leaked out of the petcock. I don’t think I ever cleaned it in the sonic cleaner so I did and that stopped the leak from the valve.

After I got that back together I put gas in it again and started kicking and gas poured out of the overflow tube. I took the carb apart to check the float. Don’t know why it leaked out, maybe because I opened it sideways this morning to change the jets. Put it back together and tried kicking some more with no sign of gas.

After just a few kicks—-WOW!! I’m in love...it sounds great to me.

300r, your trick worked wonderfully. I just finished the 2nd heat cycle and it’s not leaking, at all.



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[Jd110]

I was happy it started and revved up good, a little surprised maybe, too. The next day I took it for a stroll, but it wasn’t ready.

It revs up good until it’s in gear, then just sputtering. It takes off just ok (while sputtering) then after about 1/2 throttle there is no increase in speed.
First, it started dumping fuel out of the overflow, again. Found that to be the float not set properly. Next, I put in a smaller main, but that didn’t work, either. Stuck a vacuum on the air inlet tube to see if it was clear-all good there.

When I blew out the muffler with air, before installing it, quit a bit of ‘stuff’ came out. Maybe packing materials or a mouse house? It did have good suction when I was done, as well as did the pipe.

So, I’ve got some detective work to do and no doubt that I’ll be still learning for a while.

1. The needle is not new, so I’ll put in the new one.
2. I was going to pull the air box lid off.
3. Need to check gas cap vent.
4. I’ll check the timing also and report back.

Any suggestions to help narrow my search
are always welcome. Everyone, have a great weekend!!


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[yaegerb]

Check ignition as well.

[Jd110]

Check ignition as well.
That makes since, because one of the first things I did was eff up the stator when I tried to get the flywheel off without a proper puller. So I bought a used one. Now I see, again, where it says to NOT take the pulse generator off the base, which I think I did. Good clue, I’ll look there first. Thanks Yaegerb

[yaegerb]

No problem. And make sure the timing lines mark up from the base plate to the case.

[Jd110]

No luck, yet. This trike is schoolin’ me!! Which is good, really.
I think I’ve got it narrowed down to the cdi. Here is a list of what I’ve checked:
1. Coil-both sides, including new plug cap.
2. Exciter coil & ac generator
3. Stator (haven’t tried moving the base from timing marks)
4. Ran without muffler
5. Tried a different pipe
6. Different size jets
7. Made sure air filter wasn’t over oiled.
8. Spark plug gap

Without comparing it to another, it seems my spark is weak. (I can send a video to someone if they wanted to verify that for me). From what I’ve read, that ‘could’ be a bad cdi. So, that and the reeds are the last options I’m thinking as of now.

It is encouraging that it fires on the first kick, every time, idles and revs up real nice. But, the minute it gets going, it’s like there is no power (barely spins the tires in the snow).



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[yaegerb]

Try unscrewing your spark plug wire from the coil. Snip 1/8-1/4 off the wire and screw it back in. See if that helps.

[Jd110]

Thanks Yaegerb, You’re more reliable than any darn trike!! I forgot to add I installed a new wire with cap. Even tried a new coil.
P.s. new cdi should be here in a few days;)

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[barnett468]

What is your elevation?

I would do the following in the mean time.

1. put the correct main jet back in, unless you are at a high elevation.

2. check the float level.

3. disconnect the kill switch. These can cause big problems. I had to do this 2 days ago on my 1980 YZ250 at a National Motocross race last Sunday. I raced this bike around 12 times in the last 6 months and it has always ran flawlessly after I dialed in the jetting, timing, oil ratio, and fuel mix (pump gas with 25% vp street blaze) and I even started it up Saturday to make sure it was still ok, then it wouldn't stay running on Sunday even after being push started by 5 different people then being towed around the parking lot several times, lol. I drained the gas in the tank then shoved my finger in the spark plug cap and turned it over and no juice. I then simply unplugged the kill switch and whala, it shocked the sh_it out of me. It then started and ran flawlessly as usual.

4. Post a photo of the plug.

5. Post a video of the spark if you want to. With a CDI, it should have a faint, thin blue spark, but it should be checked in a semi dark area or you may not see it at all. If it is yellow, there is not much voltage.

6. Unless you need, or simply want to run the stock muffler, I would install a straight thru type aftermarket one, and if you get a used one, I would repack it. It will give you more power and will reduce the weight by around 65lbs, lol. The bike won't run properly if your stock one is partially plugged or all the packing is gone or if you do not run a silencer at all.


Here's a very rare, vintage ANSWER silencer that ends at noon tomorrow (2-27). I would buy this in a heartbeat if I had an 82 250r. I have vintage ANSWER silencers on both my race bikes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-HONDA-ATC250R-AWNSER-SILENCER-MUFFLER/123656375963?hash=item1cca7e8e9b:g:IJkAAOSwsq1cbbT y:rk:39:pf:0

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/IJkAAOSwsq1cbbTy/s-l1600.jpg

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[barnett468]

Even tried a new coil.


Unless it is an original honda coil, I would not use it. I can tell you horror stories about my experience with chinese coils...but I won't.

[Jd110]

Elev. is 2200. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190226/b9f4bcf90a7e40e8cc821a4d687a76b1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190226/488d97dcca278ed5dc6f3fba7f876b5d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190226/5add86237533233c4a249419afa4f571.jpg
Probably hard to see that but it is faint blue.

Yes, the silencer has me wondering, again. I mentioned earlier that I blew out a lot of ‘stuff’ with a serious amount of air pressure, through both ends. I just didn’t know better, I was thinking it was from a mouse. Here is some of it:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190226/5fdbf408499e656c7c45904e61801081.jpg. Is this packing material?
Thanks for the link.


I didn’t add earlier that I did buy a cheap $9.99 coil because I got 3.3 k ohms on the secondary side of the oem coil. The book states 8-15. This cheap new coil reads the exact same 3.3.
Thanks for your time and suggestions, barn.
IMHO-it takes a good person to help someone that doesn’t have much of a clue. Lots of good help, here.


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[Jd110]

No news is better than bad news, as I see it.

So, for now, I’ll just say that every dead end forces me a different direction, which will eventually lead to success-I’m sure of it!!

After checking the entire electrical system, including ringing out all wiring and connectors, I went a different direction, towards something else I suspected.

I quickly found something that prompted me to more research. I keep thinking I found it, but this time I checked some text, from whom I consider ‘ace in the hole’ on my project. Well, there it was, confirmation I made an error.
I don’t want to say, yet. I’m better off taking my own mistakes and dead ends on my own. If this doesn’t do it, I’ll keep after it.


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[shortline10]

We’re do I find me one of these “ Ace in the holes”

[Jd110]

Conclusion....this thing would have ran on the first start-up, had I put the proper reeds in.
I’m not using the stoppers so I should have ordered dual stage, instead of single stage. That’s how close I was. Not bad considering.....
Want to say thank you, to 3ww for this resource and especially, Brendon. He stood by the last 5 months, answering all my questions and spending hours of his personal time to help this trike get going, again. This most definitely would have been harder and longer without you.


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[yaegerb]

Conclusion....this thing would have ran on the first start-up, had I put the proper reeds in.
I’m not using the stoppers so I should have ordered dual stage, instead of single stage. That’s how close I was. Not bad considering.....
Want to say thank you, to 3ww for this resource and especially, Brendon. He stood by the last 5 months, answering all my questions and spending hours of his personal time to help this trike get going, again. This most definitely would have been harder and longer without you.


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Anytime brother, that bike runs awesome! Have fun!

[Jd110]

Thanks, forgot to say-that’s the sound of your pipe! The oem pipe I got for free has a hole where it shouldn’t be. Plus, it’s about 100 lbs lighter.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190310/fc38b384dc671e9ecd805821c26d9759.jpg
I bought this after it was posted and started to shine it.
I’m surrounded by trees and only ride in the forest, although I don’t see a problem running it in the winter, not like much can burn under 6’ of snow. It’s much lighter than my oem muffler, which I need to find out if it has a sparky?
I’m really amazed how light this R is, already. It’s going to do great in the snow! Which is one of my favorite 4 seasons to be outside, here!


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[barnett468]

The orig silencer came with a spark arrestor but it may have disintegrated. You can try sticking a coat hangar or long screw driver in the end and if it stops after around 4 inches, it still has the spark arrestor.

[barnett468]

...or something blocking the exhaust, like more muffler packing. :lol:

[barnett468]

.
Also, since, nobody mentioned, it, you have superb spark by the looks of it in the photo.

[Jd110]

I’m sitting here thinking, if I want this little 250 to half a chance to keep up with big bully 350...........it’s going to need a real set of rubber.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190310/4fbfdff1445ec24ec5450b9d25a87d27.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190310/4428423e0370bb44ee63f40bd009d924.jpg
Bonus foot print shots and a bed with an after hour visitor if you can spot it.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190310/be068752887259239df07dec5a64f61f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190310/d728fe7dd7e0b560d6b6045ee0fe9791.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190310/b26a429222e7dd00a3b3e80fb80b1e8e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190310/88ff913bcafac78fb042356665dca5c3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190310/0a8d3e438665c9ba39322d878d13d247.jpg




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[Jd110]

...or something blocking the exhaust, like more muffler packing. :lol:
I’m assuming you saw the picture of what came out of my OEM muffler, since you saw spark. also came with a spark arrestor, originally, you say? Will 6” work? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190310/326630ec96b2f95a804a0660fb354e16.jpg
I’m not sure, at the moment, what material is used for that. It appears to have hair in it. That’s why I thought it was mice.
I’d like to be able to repack it. I would guess it’s serviceable since there are screws in it. That’s on my list, to find out.




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[barnett468]

6 inches will work but hopegully someone else can measure theirs for comparison. The hair ball that came out is not muffler packing. Muffler packing would be black and oily after 35 years. Someone else can tell you if it is repackable cuz im a kawi guy but i try to help the less fortunate jona owners whenever i think i can.:cool:

[barnett468]

Jesus, guess i shouldn't post from my cell phone. How bout "hopefully" and "honda". As you can see, i aint gots no edit buttonz.:lol:

[Jd110]

Thanks for putting up with me. Here’s a few more of what it was like when I found it: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190311/e05c01a52a2fabb6d5584e987053cbea.jpg
I think the red in the crank case is overspray.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190311/92e9e0d6a2a40598a072530b629717cf.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190311/7ef3a82f54de22a86c9ae7599d6a51ef.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190311/b6c2871a1ad996acd841ef19f326c4e8.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190311/00805b47df9880c75db4967506c82af5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190311/0a40c96e7d3a3eecfdeadf1d0d4a078c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190311/8c2010183ef76e68b9d4d6be83a7c85a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190311/b4d4cb51188e73f034e8af4eed44b040.jpg


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