Hot Rod Brian's 87 SX

[fabiodriven]

Two months ago give or take, my neighbor Hot Rod Brian told me he'd seen a trike earlier that day while looking over some cars for sale. He showed me this picture.

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I told Brian we needed to get our hands on that ASAP, but Brian does take his time with things. He's missed out from time to time with his balking, but I wasn't letting that happen this time. The seller is 91 and it's son's machine, who lives out of state. Hot Rod Brian is a bit older than myself, I'm 38. I figured this particular deal might take a little more than a day or a week...

It did. I don't recall exactly when it was initially brought up, but it's been around two months as I said. Today we were able to go pick it up. Brian's probably just going to poke around the yards here on it and then if he's gonna let it go it will go to me. We've got another guy who hangs out here all the time who wants it as well.

So we went and picked it up for short money and it looks great! The gas tank has one small dent but it's cleaning up really nice and there is next to no rust in it, as it was topped off with pre-ethanol gasoline. It was orange but there was no damage to the carburetor. The carb was gummed solid, but everything is usable inside of it and the float works fine. I miss pre-ethanol carb cleaning. Although all the small passages were gummed, they all cleaned easily and there was next to nothing in the bowl itself, really not terrible.

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The OEM plastics are patched but good for a rider. Rear brake works fine but the front is missing the barrel that the cable goes through on the brake actuation lever on the hub itself. Rear wheels are currently gold so those need to get painted. Forks need to be rebuilt, boots are trashed.

I threw my battery in it and my gas tank on it and the electric start did not work. There was a clicking sound like a solenoid, but no action on the starter. I jumped up on it and kicked once, twice, second kick it was running. It caught us all by surprise. No smoke, no noises, it's tight and smooth. It died before it reached ten seconds of run time, that's when I found out the carb was gummed. It ran really well though.

One thing we are in search of is an 86-87 headlight shell. Ol Shep is sending over a 200X shell to see how it looks (Shep is the man!), we don't know what it's going to look like but it's worth a shot. If anyone has any white 86-87 SX headlight shells please, let me know.

I'll update as this barn find comes together. The OEM Ohtsu on the front has 95% tread, but unfortunately it's a loss. I was really bummed to see the weather checking on it where it was flat on the ground. The Wooly Boogers are hard as rocks and one has a tube, so those will go bye bye if it becomes mine. They're probably fine for what Brian's going to use it for.

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[ironchop]

Fantastic score!!

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[6bt]

Nice find!

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[atc300r]

Awsome find.I would like to get one someday.

[Dirtcrasher]

That's a great find!!

They're still out there!!

[schlepp29]

Sweeeet! Great find

[Big G]

Man I love seeing barn finds! Nothing like the sight of a trike layered in dust, all but forgotten, only to be resurrected by a trike enthusiast! Well done :beer

[fabiodriven]

Thanks for all the replies guys! Yes it certainly was a score. I got the carb cleaned and reassembled and unfortunately the bike still didn't run right. I disassembled the carb a second time and found a jet which was completely clogged as well as the spring and washer for the air screw missing, rookie moves. Ultimately my fault, yes, however we have a friend who comes by and tends to distract people and worse yet, sometimes insists on "helping". God bless the guy, he's a true friend, but I put the tools down when he comes over and this is exactly why. You'll see him in the video below.

So we do now know that the muffler on the SX has some small holes on the underside. I'll be welding those up, but we're going to ride it first. I need to reinstall the carb again, it's right this time. I was also able to Frankenstein the headlight shell back together so that's good!

This is Hot Rod Brian in the video below. I'll be honest, it has nothing to do with the thread really. I just found this hilarious and I thought others might as well. Like I said, our buddy makes it really difficult at times!

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https://youtu.be/tFH8-Vanz90

[redsox]

Hey John, I have a buddy with an 87 engine in his sx. He initially bought an 87 starter rebuild kit and then just decided to buy a new chinese starter. Never used the kit. Its yours if you want it.

[fabiodriven]

Hey John, I have a buddy with an 87 engine in his sx. He initially bought an 87 starter rebuild kit and then just decided to buy a new chinese starter. Never used the kit. Its yours if you want it.

S-s-s-sold! Thank you Dan!

[ironchop]

Everything is funnier for me when said in a eastern American accent.

"If you don't STFU I'm gonna have to ask you to leave"

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[El Camexican]

Everything is funnier for me when said in a eastern American accent.

LOL! Mayor Joe Quimby flashed in my mind the first time I head Fabio speak. I don’t think I’d ever met anyone from Massachusetts before, or since.

A couple months back some Americans were sitting next to us in a restaurant overseas and one of the guys ask where I’m from. I tell him and ask the same to him. He says “Boston” I said, really? You didn’t grow up there. He looks at me stunned and says “how do you know?” I responded that I know a guy from there and you don’t sound like him. He says “moved there when I was on my 20’s”. It’s super distinct.

[ironchop]

LOL! Mayor Joe Quimby flashed in my mind the first time I head Fabio speak. I don’t think I’d ever met anyone from Massachusetts before, or since.

A couple months back some Americans were sitting next to us in a restaurant overseas and one of the guys ask where I’m from. I tell him and ask the same to him. He says “Boston” I said, really? You didn’t grow up there. He looks at me stunned and says “how do you know?” I responded that I know a guy from there and you don’t sound like him. He says “moved there when I was on my 20’s”. It’s super distinct.It stuck with me too so that my brain reads his posts here in that voice which makes it all the more entertaining.

I'm sure he thinks I sound like Jed Clampett just the same

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[fabiodriven]

Lmfao. If you guys think my accent is thick I wish you could sit down with Brian and some of the other people around here. I mock them and I'm from here!

[redsox]

We don't have accents. This is the original way the pilgrims spoke when they landed here in Massholeachusetts. You guys are the ones with the accents. Wicked bad.

[fabiodriven]

Hot Rod Brian sold this machine to me (for the moment), but it's going to be known as Albie's machine most likely. I took possession of it a few months back and it's been sitting here waiting for some attention. Well a few days ago I decided it was time to get this thing going. Albie's going to pay for it when it's done and it will be his, and if he doesn't pay I'll keep it. Personally I hope he doesn't pay.

Turns out the focks were bent straight back a little bit. I have a keen eye for that but somehow hadn't noticed until I disassembled them. I threw a set of straight tubes in that were out in the shed along with new seals and fluid.

The front brake shoes were roached, and NOS Honda shoes are in the mail on their way here.

OEM grips and bar ends are en route as well, along with a set of handlebar heaters. OEM air filter is also in the mail.

Used OEM skid plate compliments of Captain Weezy will be here soon as well, packaging adorned with something embarrassing and most likely sexual or at least having something to do with bodily functions. Thank you again pal!

I welded the holes in the stock muffler closed.

One issue we noticed just recently, one of the aluminum aftermarket rims had slotted holes from being run with loose lugs. We were able to drill new lug holes, but we weren't crazy about the rims or tires. They would have worked, but they weren't ideal. Just for shites and giggles, I jumped on Craigslist yesterday and searched "ATC". Well wouldn't you know, one of the first ads that popped up was for two stock 85 SX wheels with two good usable Ohtsus on them for $30 four miles from my house! Amazing! So I scored those and met another triker who's nearby.

Ideally all the parts will arrive in time and everything will fall together, then this machine will be back in the mountains for the first time in quite a few years. We're hoping to head up this coming Sunday (Dan), and my buddy Albie's never been riding up there. It's going to be a huge deal for him, I'm looking forward to it myself. I'll post some pictures when it's all together.

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[3Z with Fangs!]

Thanks for all the replies guys! Yes it certainly was a score. I got the carb cleaned and reassembled and unfortunately the bike still didn't run right. I disassembled the carb a second time and found a jet which was completely clogged as well as the spring and washer for the air screw missing, rookie moves. Ultimately my fault, yes, however we have a friend who comes by and tends to distract people and worse yet, sometimes insists on "helping". God bless the guy, he's a true friend, but I put the tools down when he comes over and this is exactly why. You'll see him in the video below.

So we do now know that the muffler on the SX has some small holes on the underside. I'll be welding those up, but we're going to ride it first. I need to reinstall the carb again, it's right this time. I was also able to Frankenstein the headlight shell back together so that's good!

This is Hot Rod Brian in the video below. I'll be honest, it has nothing to do with the thread really. I just found this hilarious and I thought others might as well. Like I said, our buddy makes it really difficult at times!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180414/7146ae80f18610824f72fa170a5ce7cd.jpg

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https://youtu.be/tFH8-Vanz90

That headlight shell = character!

[keister]

I welded the holes in the stock muffler closed.

When you weld on trikes, do you unhook your CDI and or other electricals first? Have you ever fried electricals welding on one, or is that not something to be concerned with?


Used OEM skid plate compliments of Captain Weezy will be here soon as well, packaging adorned with something embarrassing and most likely sexual or at least having something to do with bodily functions. Thank you again pal!

Quartermaster: One book Swedish Made Penis Enlarger Pumps and Me. This sorta thing is my bag, baby by Captain Weezy

[fabiodriven]

I don't unhook anything intentionally when I weld Mr Keister. The battery is out of the machine but that's only because the machine was slated to be on the wheelie bar for a while during the time I worked on it.

I welded exhaust systems on cars and trucks for years and we never unhooked anything. Never had any issues. I've welded on all my own vehicles over the years and never fried anything.

[Dirtcrasher]

Me neither.. I read stories about disconnecting BLAH BLAH BLAH, never had an issue...

[Big G]

I noticed you've removed the front wheel...just wondering if the front axle caused you any grief? I have an '85 250SX and will have to remove the front axle at some point to replace the tire. Apparently those front axles are notorious for seizing. Just wondering how it went for you?

[fabiodriven]

My 86 and this 87 both came off without incident.

[fabiodriven]

Alright so now unfortunately we will not be hitting the mountains this weekend because of two separate speed bumps, and I need a little help.

First problem is a persistent bog when you give it throttle. It will bog right through the middle of the RPM range and eventually clear out then rev up to full throttle. I have had this carburetor out of the machine and apart no less than five times, probably more. The last time I had it apart, the plastic slosh guard around the main jet lost it's grip and fell off. I thought that was finally going to be the cure to the bog, but I was wrong. I removed the jet shroud from the carburetor and still it bogs. I changed the spark plug to a brand new one just to be sure, but that didn't help. I'm at a loss as to what it is that could be causing this bog. I thought the first couple times it was apart that I must have missed a clogged passage somewhere but I don't think that's the case anymore.

Our second issue, the triples are bent. I figured it out during assembly when I had the same issue putting it together that I saw when I was taking it apart. The axle doesn't sit where it's supposed to, and you can clearly see the front end is twisted. I'm beginning my hunt for a set of triples right now. I bet the top one is OK but I don't know that yet.

[El Camexican]

First problem is a persistent bog when you give it throttle. It will bog right through the middle of the RPM range and eventually clear out then rev up to full throttle. I have had this carburetor out of the machine and apart no less than five times, probably more. The last time I had it apart, the plastic slosh guard around the main jet lost it's grip and fell off. I thought that was finally going to be the cure to the bog, but I was wrong. I removed the jet shroud from the carburetor and still it bogs. I changed the spark plug to a brand new one just to be sure, but that didn't help. I'm at a loss as to what it is that could be causing this bog. I thought the first couple times it was apart that I must have missed a clogged passage somewhere but I don't think that's the case anymore.

Take a real good look at the needle. Roll it on a piece of glass and make sure it’s perfectly straight.

Not sure what your fuel screw looks like, but I had the tip break off in a Mikuni carb once and didn’t realize it until I put the needle next to a good one. Ran like crap till 3/4 throttle.

And... some carbs have a small washer under the needle clip. Check if yours is supposed to have one.

[redsox]

been a bit distracted pal. I have that starter rebuild kit still. I'll get it out to you. Bad friend. Sorry.

[Dirtcrasher]

Just curious, did they have the key for that thing when he got it?? Such a nice score!!

[fabiodriven]

Yes sir Steve, key was right in it.

I have triples on the way and I'm going to swap the carb from my SX on to it and see what she's got to say then.

[fabiodriven]

Last weekend this machine did end up making it to the mountains for the first time in many years, and Albie rode it. Both he as well as the SX did great, but both were aching at the end of the day.

The machine ran well enough but could have run better. I ended up sealing the intake and cleaning the carburetor for the sixth time and it still ran like crap, so I cleaned out another carb I found in my parts and used that one instead. I took the machine for a one minute long lap around my yard and loaded it up to hit the mountains. That was the first time it didn't bog but it wasn't even run five minutes. I couldn't keep riding it because it was warm and raining and the yard was too soft to rip around on.

Like I said, it ran fine, just not perfect. I'm going to fix the original carburetor one way or the other and get it running perfect. The other issue is a bead leak in one of our new (used) Ohtsus. The wheel is with Albie now as he's a tire guy, so he's bringing it in to work with him.

All in all the rookie rider was truly impressed with this machine and he'll be up there again with it.

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[badasskfx]

Sounds like an intake leak to me. Do you have an ultra sonic cleaner there might be some crap deep inside. Next time you go to the mountains if it’s in NH let me know I’d like to ride with you guys.

[fabiodriven]

It was actually acting the direct opposite of an intake leak. It started and idled fine, but then ran bad when you gave it throttle in the upper RPM. An intake leak would have more of an affect at idle and less when you give it throttle. I don't have a carb dip machine, I was just looking into them though.

Yeah we still ride a lot, Jeff moved up there and goes all the time, like literally. What machine were you thinking about riding? Been a while!

[badasskfx]

200s or,if your going to rip I’ll take 250r

[fabiodriven]

Either will work, but both are going to be tough on your back! If you have a set of 2-ply 22's, put those on either machine and brace yourself, lol. We all run SX's and Big Red's now. The big poofy tires are key!

[badasskfx]

The big red and sx are crazy money right now.

[fabiodriven]

The 87 was a gigantic pain in the arse yesterday. Two weeks ago when we took it to the mountains, it ran "well enough" for a bike that had been parked for at least a decade, but it needed some love. It was idling high, it had a hanging idle, and it would spit and backfire when downshifting. At our first stop in the woods, we adjusted the air screw and that did seem to quiet the backfiring somewhat, almost completely actually.

We have been running this bike with a carburetor I had on the shelf here, not sure what year carb it is but probably 86. Yesterday I rebuilt the original 87 carburetor. This carburetor has been out of this bike and cleaned so many times it's embarrassing, but I am missing something. This time it was rebuilt, new parts were installed from the kit, but not every single piece comes in those kits as most of you are aware. I replaced everything I could and the carburetor had been soaking in carb cleaner for days. I spent the ridiculous amount of time it takes removing the current carburetor from the SX, then spent the ridiculous amount of time it takes to install the original 87 carburetor (again). This is what happened.

Once this carburetor was installed, it ran exactly the same as it was running with the other carburetor on it, much to my chagrin. Where I swapped out the carb and nothing changed, that tells me whatever I just changed is not the problem. I was pissed at first, but began trying to tune the carburetor in. It's rich at idle and will not dial in using the idle adjustment and air screws. At one point I stopped what I was doing and asked myself what the common denominator is here, because swapping the carburetor made no difference at all, so that's not the problem. What are the common denominators? One common denominator is the intake. The intake was removed, re-sealed, and actually replaced because I broke the intake that came off the 87 originally. Could the intake be the problem? It is feasible, but if there were an intake leak it would be lean at idle, not loading up with fuel (which is what it was doing). Oddly enough, the hanging idle is more of a symptom of a leaky intake, so it has symptoms of being both lean and fat at the same time. Figure that one out!!

An issue I caught which is highly suspect is a choke cable issue. The choke lever has never felt right on this bike, it doesn't pull right. I have a feeling someone may have stretched the choke cable sheath which is now causing the choke to hang open just a tad. This seems extremely likely to me. I wanted to test this theory, so I removed the choke and cable from the 87 carburetor (with the carburetor installed on the bike) and I installed a loose choke plunger in the hole and seated it all the way down in it's bore. I started the bike and it had never run better. I began setting the idle and adjusting the air screw and the bike was dialing right in, I thought I had figured it out. As I sat there with the screwdriver patting myself on the back for figuring this out, like a light switch the bike loaded up like crazy, I had to grab the throttle to keep it running. It was so fat it felt like someone had put the choke on full. It happened with no warning, like I said, it was like a switch was flipped. I grabbed a screwdriver and whacked the crap out of the carb a few times and it seemed to clear up a bit, but we went right back to the carb being un-tunable again. Now I was mad.

So that's where I left off yesterday. My next steps will be a new choke cable, and I realized something this morning. There is a black rubber plug that goes into the choke orifice inside the carburetor. This 87 carb never had one of those from the time I disassembled it. I know it needs one, I can see it on the fiche, so I'm going to take the one black plug that I do have and install it in the 87 carburetor. Another big difference with the 87 carburetor, the air screw setup is VERY DIFFERENT on the 87 carburetor. Some of the parts interchange between the 86 and 87 air screws but not all of them. I plan to order the correct respective OEM air screws for all of these carburetors to get them all sorted out.

Last thought I had which two others have suggested is the CDI. I have a spare out there (I think) which I can try out on there as well.

Anyhow, typical SX carburetors, this thing is a gigantic pain in the arse. These carbs absolutely suck to remove and install and it does not get any easier with time, it just sucks.

[Dirtcrasher]

Those are some confusing conflicting symptoms... If that's an 86/76 it will start with Keihin 08 (That's what I recall, but that was a long time ago).

When you take out your floats, the 86/87 carb should have a black rubber plug in the top of the oriface casting, and the starter jet itself will be on the of that casting.


On the 85's, they were either an 03 or 05 Keihin and they have no jet on the side, and a non removable starter jet (except to replace it). Thats the jet that caused the cold start issues and to fix that you just drill it out to .080 thousands, agaain, if I recall correctly.

One time I had an SX doing something similar, it seemed like a carb problem, but it was actually a few broken and exposed wires where the CDI is located at the battery box. In my case, when the suspension moved up and down, you could see how it ruined the harness and CDI plug once the electrical tape was removed.



Is his gas cap venting okay?? I know, it seems like you're leaning more towards "rich", I'm just tossing out ideas... I have NOS and used intakes if you want to try one just to rule it out.

[jb2wheels]

On a side note, did you check valve adjustment?
Maybe exhaust clogged up some by rodent or insect?
Just throwing stuff out there.

Looks like you have some decent local riding.

[fabiodriven]

Very conflicting, yes Steve. You described the cold start circuit perfectly, and that's where part of my problem is. I don't think it's going to fix everything though.

So the bozo who put this carburetor together last (me) forgot to install that rubber plug in the cold start circuit. Now, I hadn't already mentioned it, but the machine flooded like crazy the first time I tried to fire it yesterday when I had just installed the correct 87 carburetor. I used the choke and it instantly flooded. Now I know why, because I forgot to install the black rubber plug. As I said though, I don't think that's why the bike won't run right. Here's a couple pictures.

On the left here we have the 85/86 air screw, and the one on the right is the 87 air screw. They cannot be interchanged between the the two different carburetor castings, but (to the best of my knowledge) they both use the same spring, O-rings, and washer. I'd like to confirm that part for certain myself.

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85 air screw hole

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87 air screw hole

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85 orifices. Notice no rubber plug and no jet on the side of the orifice. Only 86 and 87 carburetors have the side orifice and those carbs require the black rubber plug.

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This is the 87 carburetor.

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An exciting new problem we have is the brand new float valve leaking. The old float valve did not leak so it is going back into the 87 carburetor. My next step will be to assemble the bike again with the black rubber plug in place this time, install a different choke cable, then see what we've got. I don't want to add too many variables at once so I'm not touching the CDI for now.

Also the gas cap is not an issue and the valves are likely not out of spec. I'm not positive but I think I may have checked the valves when we first got this machine. No issues with the exhaust either.

[Dirtcrasher]

It's just something simple we're all missing... If you pull off the gas line and turn it on, does it flow out freely and fill up a big bottle on run or res and with the cap on?

But, YUP!! That's the difference in the air screws. The early 85's seemed to have that screw on the left in your picture. The screw on the right, it seems they left the brass full size so the secondary o-ring could keep it from getting contaminated.

I can't imagine a finger slid choke has a stretched cable, damaged, sure. But, it just moves a tiny plunger.

I've been out of the SX (And the other type of S-X) for a looooong time now :lol: I remember one time when I had literally zero spare parts. And I had an SX but no choke cable. I thought at the time I had a 350X carb and the choke plunger was a possibility. But, don't let me screw you up with that thought, it was probably 2001 when I did that, can't recall if I even tried that... Sorry...

I also have a NOS 350X carb, you could change the pilot and main with the SX jets and see if it runs well. I know, you don't want to be a "parts changer", and I respect that. But, you may have to try a totally different part to eliminate one of the symptoms...

[danbur55]

Just a thought. How’s the throttle cable?and is main needle seated well. Probably just the angle of the pics but the floats appear to be a little high visually but you have most likely dealt with way more of these than I have

[fabiodriven]

The throttle cable was actually a concern of mine initially but was ruled out, so I completely understand why you would suggest that.

The floats probably look high because the carburetors are upside down in the pictures, so the weight of the floats is pushing the spring down in float valve. The float height is not adjustable on these carbs.

[fabiodriven]

I'm beyond irritated right now, beyond annoyed, I'm very angry and frustrated and ready to take the maul to this machine.

Intake was examined thoroughly, even though it was already replaced and resealed. No issues there. The original 87 carburetor has been soaked and cleaned and cleaned and soaked, there is nothing clogged in there. I haven't swapped the CDI yet but I really do not think that's the problem.

https://youtu.be/0k3yVoXxKgE

[fabiodriven]

I thought I was onto something with the cable. I took the choke cable from the 85 SX we have here and swapped it out with the 87 cable. When I compared the two cables, I thought for certain I'd found my problem. Oh I found my problem alright. My problem is this machine and it's becoming a really big trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro problem.

You can see how much longer the 85 cable is. The choke feels correct now when you use it at least.

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[fabiodriven]

Try and bring your R where I go. Oh it would be comical.

[fabiodriven]

CDI swapped and valves adjusted with no improvement.

[fabiodriven]

Alright it's fixed. I'm not positive what it was, but in my mind it seemed like the air circuit was clogged. I took the carburetor apart again and paid special attention to the air circuit, then went through everything else multiple times, and I also swapped out the new pilot jet from the rebuild kit for the original pilot. The float valve stopped leaking after I took out the new one and put the old one back in, so that gave me even more reason not to trust the aftermarket pilot jet.

In the end I don't know if the problem was the air circuit or that pilot jet. All I know is I was going haywire there for a while.

[fieldy]

Cool you got it. I've had a chest cold and been here thinking and reading about this. I was gonna say try the rebuilt carb on the other well running sx.
Sometimes removing and reinstalling air boxes and carburetors can be a real pain in the face. Makes a minute into an hour sometimes. I really hope the newer atv's and dirtbikes are easier to work on when it comes to intakes.

[fabiodriven]

Oh yeah these are terrible to get the carb in and out of, just awful.

[Dirtcrasher]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA - I feel your pain!! :lol: