Difficulty Starting 1980 ATC110

[derrick81787]

Hello everyone,

I have a 1980 ATC110 that has kind of been my intro to learning to work on and maintain something like this, and I was hoping that you could help me trouble shoot it. The last few months, it has been having trouble starting. I always eventually get it, but it has been way more difficult than it used to be. Here is the process that I go through to get it started:


Turn on the fuel petcock, turn on the choke, make sure the switch is in the "run" position, etc.
Put my left thumb on the throttle to give it just a little gas, and then pull on the recoil starter. It fires on the very first pull almost every time, but then it immediate dies.
For the next several pulls, nothing happens.
Eventually, it fires up again and runs for a few seconds but usually dies again.
After a couple times of that and messing with different positions of the choke, it starts and stays running.
I give it a little bit of gas for a few seconds and turn the choke off. After a few seconds of this, it idles fairly well.
It bogs down a little on full throttle and runs a little rough until it warms up, but then it runs and idles perfectly. If I kill the engine but then start it again while it is still warm, then it will start on the first or second pull and run fine.


It has a new plastic gas tank, good fuel lines, two new inline fuel filters, a new spark plug, a new oil change with Rotella Triple T 10w-40, and I've checked the timing on the ignition points. I fiddled with the points timing a little bit, but I ended up right back where I started. The carb is a Chinese clone that I bought a few years ago, but it has been working fine until recently. I checked the carb, and it is clean and everything. I removed the pilot and main jets and shot carb cleaner through them and can see daylight through them. I'm not sure what else would be causing my problem. The strange thing is that it runs great when it is warm. It has good power for a 110, and I was even driving it in 4th gear high the other day.

Can anyone here point me in the direction of what to look at next? I love riding it, but I find myself doing it less often because it's such a pain to start up.

Thanks,
derrick81787

[DAM shop]

derrick,
Try to find a stock carb, those china ones are just not consistant in their performance, beleive me we have tried.. How is your air cleaner? do you have a good blue spark at the -plug and points? Have you replaced your points with aftermarket points or oem? it does make a diffrence. I can almost bet 90% that the carb is your issue.. Make sure you timing chain is tight while you are at it.

[shortline10]

I second Matt’s suggestions , OEM carburetor and buy a new set of OEM points .

[derrick81787]

I think the points are OEM. I haven't replaced them anyway, but I'm not the original owner. I have the original carb, but it's not in good shape. I guess I'll have to hunt around for a rebuild kit. It seems odd that the new carb could work well for a while and then go bad, but I really don't have much experience with these things. If you guys say that can happen then I'll believe you. It has run well with that carb for over a year, though, which is why I didn't suspect that to be the issue.

The plug is getting a good blue spark. The points are sparking, but I didn't pay much attention to the color of the spark. It completely slipped my mind to check the air filter, so I will definitely check that. It was replaced one or two years ago, but I haven't done anything with it since then. I haven't looked at the timing chain either, so I'll do that.

Is there a particular carb rebuild kit that is generally accepted around here as being the way to go?

[fabiodriven]

Just to back up what was already stated, I tried a China carb on a 110 a few years back. Initially it seemed great, but it always lost it's tune, it wouldn't stay consistent. We adjusted it over and over and eventually I threw my hands in the air because it was a lost cause.

I don't know if OEM carb parts are available, but I'd go with those if they are indeed available.

[derrick81787]

Okay, well that makes me feel better to know that I'm not crazy about it working well for a while and now not I guess. I'll take a look at the old carb and see how bad it is. Maybe it's just dirty, but I remember thinking that it was more than that. Either way, I know I have it at home. Worst case scenario, maybe I can take the rubber seals and whatever from the Chinese carb and put it in the OEM carb while otherwise keeping the original parts.

That's a shame because when I put in that Chinese carb and it just worked (I didn't have to adjust the fuel/air mixture or change the needle or anything), I thought it was magic.

[shortline10]

Either a shindy carburetor kit or OEM if available.

[DAM shop]

Like Shortline said a shindy kit will work.. a word of caution being that you can't hardly tell what carb is what on those make sure you get the correct kit, meaning the pilot jet on those are different between years, some screw in others are press fit. Just make sure you get the correct kit for your Carb.. everything else should fit, really all you need is the bowl gasket and maybe the jet needle..

[fabiodriven]

If it's feasible keep your hands on the original jets that came in the OEM carb in case you need them.

[derrick81787]

Thanks everyone. I ordered a Shindy carb kit that says that it is for a 1979-1983 ATC110, and it should be in next week. I also have the original jets and needle, so those are available to me if I need them. I looked at the original carb last night. It was dirty and the bowl gasket was definitely shot, but I think this kit is probably all I need to get it up and running again. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I'll try and update once I rebuild the carb and let everyone know if that was the problem or not.

[derrick81787]

The kit has come in, but I haven't had time to work on it other than draining the gas out of the tank in preparation for replacing the Chinese carb. It will probably be next week, but I haven't forgot about coming back to update with the results.

Edit: The carb is filthy, so I bought some carb cleaner to dip the carb in to make sure that I get all of the little passages and everything clean. Unfortunately, the package was damaged in shipment and returned to the seller, and nobody felt the need to tell me until I called and asked where it was. They are shipping a replacement out today. Once I get the carb clean, then I'm going to replace the seals and everything using the kit and see how it runs. I really will get to this sometime. I've never had so much trouble with an online order before.

[derrick81787]

I have an update. I cleaned the carburetor real well and replaced all of the rubber seals. The original pilot jet was a #35 and I had trouble getting it clean, so I replaced it with the #35 jet from the Shindy kit.

The original main jet was a #82, but the main jet included in the kit was a #85. I wasn't sure which one to use, but I ended up using the original #82. It was clean.

I also used the original needle with the clip in the middle position.

When I put it all back together and started up the 110, it started super easily and idled perfectly. However, when I tried to drive it, it started to bog down at about half throttle. At full throttle, it bogs down to the point to where it will die if I don't release the throttle. If I leave the choke on, it won't bog down as much, but then it runs like I have the choke on.

Does it sound like it's not getting enough gas? My first thought is to put the #85 main jet in, move the clip down a notch, and possibly replace the needle all together with the needle that came with the kit. Does that sounds like a good plan?

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

[DAM shop]

Oh man you got a lot going on there my friend.. did you bother to put in any inline filters? Did you clean out your petcock where the filter screen is? How's the inside of your tank? Is it clean a couple of clear inline filters will tell ya if it is or not.. it only takes a small bit of dirt in that pilot jet to clog.. can't remember without looking at your past post have you set the points, valves adjusted timing chain? Did you get a decent air filter?
So much has to work together to get those things correct. I suppose if it were me I would stay on the carb make sure it's all clean with new filters once you rule out that then go to ignition.. do you have a manual?

[DAM shop]

Furthermore if this is all stock and it sounds like it is, stick with stock size jet and keep clip in the middle..big you change these things on a stock trike you are compensating for something else that is off..
One more thing, I know it's a lot more work but when making adjustments try one thing at a time.. that way you can keep track of what works and what dosent..

[DAM shop]

I see you are in Carbondale ill, I am in Davenport ia I would be glad to help if you wanted to head my way.

[Tri-Z 250]

Yes move the clip for now...figure out if leaning it out helps, or hurts. From that point you'll know about main jet move...Sounds a bit rich to me...run full throddle as it bogs, cut the motor pull the plug....bet it's wet. If not then I'm wrong and it's brown white and to lean head the way to fatten it up.

[derrick81787]

The gas tank is a new plastic tank, the inline fuel filters are new and clean, the air filter is clean, the valves were adjusted not too long ago, and the points are set. I actually adjusted the points, and by the time I was done I ended up right where I started. I haven't messed with the timing chain, but I think it was adjusted at the same time as the valves.

I think I might put in the #85 main jet and see how it goes. Then I'll only mess with the needle if it is needed.

Edit: Just saw the other reply. Maybe I'll do the needle first.