1984 honda atc 200es

[Bean007]

Hello people. I have 2 84 atc 200es and both have the same symptoms. They both have around 140 psi compression dry and around 165 wet. I can whirl it over with the starter and even tried it with some starting fluid and one will spitter and sputter and quit. If i squirt a little oil in spark plug hole she will start first try. She will smoke and run fine until the oil burns off then it will quit. I am thinking of doing a complete top end rebuild with a bore and .010 piston and ring set and all new seals and gaskets. Some people say they will run at 100 psi but mine sure wont. You guys think i am going in the right direction. We have to remember they are 34 year old bikes

[ps2fixer]

Here's the engine specs from a Honda 200es service manual. Compression (warm & dry) should be 156 +/- 14psi. 140 is out of spec, but I assume that's cold too, warmer it will be higher compression, the wet test is within spec.

I think you might have more of a timing/carb issue. Have you checked out the carb on them? I've done this trick before, but you have to be careful and know what your doing a bit. I've taken a LP portable torch and stuffed it in the intake and let the gas go full blast, do not light it or you're gonna have a fire. While it's going (2nd person is a great idea for just encase), try starting it. It might not run the greatest on it, but it will idle on it. This works in the case of flooded spark plugs most of the time, carb jet problems and such. If it still doesn't want to go and acts the same, then I'd pull the CDI cover off the head and check the spark advancement springs and make sure it moves freely. Wouldn't hurt to double check the timing too while you're in there.

FYI, the LP torch works, but a back fire could be bad, I've never had any problems doing this trick, but there's a potential it could light the torch. Kind of a do at your own risk type of thing.

Here's replacement spark advancer springs if you do end up needing them, the part number is listed too if you wanted to order direct from Honda.

http://shop.3wheelerworld.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=304_307_315&product_id=403

https://i.gyazo.com/c9f631621afb677c112c94bfbe3d4604.png

Also don't forget the simple things like a new spark plug. Correct plug from the service manual is either a NGK DR8ES-L or Denso X24ESR-U, don't run champion/auto-lite etc in these engines.

[Bean007]

Thanks for the reply. One of them i put a brand new mikuni carb and the timing was checked several times. It sat for several years. I set the timing and it fired up and ran great. Then every time i started it, it just got harder and harder to start. The other one use to start first pull any time then it was about the same as the other one, just got harder to start then just not start at all.

[ps2fixer]

Hate to say it, but about the only thing I can think of is the carb again. New clean carb = runs great, then some junk from the lines/tank got in it and started plugging up the jets the more it ran. Just my theory, but it might need a carb clean and check the lines/tank for any junk in it.

[Bean007]

When i put new carb on she still wouldnt run. Put a little shot of oil in cylinder to seal up rings and it would run and idle fine until oil burnt off.

[ps2fixer]

Strange, something doesn't add up, bad compression tester, old hard to burn fuel, poor ignition/spark plug, something. Here's a link to get a copy of the service manual, never hurts to run though and test all the ignition electrical.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

[Bean007]

Heres what i did with one of them both have around 140 psi. Perhaps tester is off. New cdi, exciter coil, new carb, new main coil, plug wire and new plug. Timing marks checked multiple times over. I even skipped a tooth each way on the timing sproket just for shits and giggles. I can get it to run for a few seconds but very badly. Just funny when i put oil in cylinder she fires up first click and idles fine until oil is burnt off. Just seems like the rings are wore out and the oil seals them up to get enough compression to run properly. Thanks for the link but i already have service manual and done every ignition test in it. Perhaps my tester is showing higher compression than it is.

[ps2fixer]

Yea it's defo weird, I've never ran into an engine that had so low of compression it wouldn't run at all, unless there was basically 100psi or less compression, like my car that blew the head gasket had something like 70, 20, 30, 90 cold and wouldn't start, but would fire weakly sometimes.

You mentioned a new CDI, I assume it's a Chinese CDI, are you sure it doesn't do any kind of timing tweaking in the CDI unit? Nearly all modern engines with CDI's do, so the 200es is more of the exception type of design. If it's a used OEM one, then it should be fine if it came from a comparable machine.

Just to make sure, did you gap the exciter coil based on the service manual?

What exactly does it do when it won't start, nothing at all, not even a pop? It's not really a solid test, but when you pull the engine over, can you feel the compression stroke at all in the pull? Being a fairly low compression 200cc engine, it doesn't resist a whole bunch, atleast it's nothing comparing my 200es to a 250es or 350x (both kick starter based). The 350x if the decompression cable isn't adjust right can hurt your ankle if you don't get it just right (I have two, the one I have to fix up more is like that lol).

Anyway, the oil test does suggest bad rings, I'm just kind of thrown for a loop on the compression test. Maybe you can borrow another tester to validate if numbers are way off?

[mendoAu]

Gas these days seems to suck up moisture even in a tight container or carb bowl....winter seems to cause starting problems and summertime seems to be a breeze. I've just started changing gas before much of anything else. After I get an engine running and it warms up seems to start easy but let it sit in the rain/cold a couple of days and they can be hard starting. I mix the old gas into the generator that always starts first pull, it runs everyday and gas is constantly getting a fresh batch.

[ps2fixer]

On the gas comment, it's best to run ethanol free fuel if you have a place to get it locally. It's a bit more price wise, but it's like the old days of gas when it stayed good for 6-12 months instead of like 1-2 months. Ethanol is corrosive, absorbs moisture, and eats some types of rubber used in old engines. Ethanol free is best to use in just about any small engine unless you use it atleast weekly, the bad effects are mainly time based when sitting. Also another thing is to turn the fuel off and run the carb out of fuel before storage, but not really fun to do often.