'86 250R refurbish

[Kamnahrt]

Alright gentlemen,

This winter I decided it was time to freshen up the old R. Just using this as a place to document my progress through this. Not going to be a show room build, just want it to look as good as it runs.

As of right now I have blasted the frame and some red components and had them powdercoated. The wheels, swinger, hubs, and bars are blasted and at powder right now. Hopefully pictures of that tonight. The cylinder has been dropped off at the local 2 stroke scientist to have port, bore, head decked, and a new ESR ATC5 pipe has been ordered. The engine is out of an 85 so that will be blasted and powdercoated grey like it should be while I have it apart replacing seals.

I will try and update this as I go, looking to have this finished up before spring season opens ups here in Wisconsin.

Thanks for looking!
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[Kamnahrt]

Pick up the wheels and swinger today from my powder guy. I was unsure how the gold was going to come out but I'm happy. It is hard to capture perfectly on camera though.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180329/90e5a71e14f708f94e8aedd08cb9536f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180329/0438a66bd15499ea0eff5f982c99695f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180329/33d684629108f7a263bf76207c1417af.jpg

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[Kamnahrt]

I got a little deeper into the crankcase tonight, got held up because I misplaced or never got my flywheeler pulled back from my buddy. Judging from the slight rust on the flywheel and crank weights I'd say there was either a bit of water that got in or this old girl had sat unran a few season and was subject to condensation. I will definitely be curious to see what the internal bearings look like. On the plus side judging by the piston wash I'd say my tune was fairly close.

There was a little bit of schmoo that came out of the oil, I'm hoping it was clutch material. With out having a magnet handy Il just have to wait until I can crack this egg to see if the yolks on me or not. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/993fe590671408778c99fd546d60feb3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/0ddfb37fd934e8a8027aaae598475204.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/926ac743cb414aef071c1569cf6cb7c5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180330/203c2f9acec915e3a703818f3715b9de.jpg

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[Red Rider]

I wonder why the left side of your crank halve is grooved, while the right side is tinned?

[Kamnahrt]

I wonder why the left side of your crank halve is grooved, while the right side is tinned?Now that you point that out it does make a guy scratch his head. I don't know that I have ever seen the grooves on a crank like that before.

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[atc300r]

Looks like your missing a tin.

[yaegerb]

Looks like your missing a tin.

Bingo, get a new crank

[yaegerb]

Pick up the wheels and swinger today from my powder guy. I was unsure how the gold was going to come out but I'm happy. It is hard to capture perfectly on camera though.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180329/90e5a71e14f708f94e8aedd08cb9536f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180329/0438a66bd15499ea0eff5f982c99695f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180329/33d684629108f7a263bf76207c1417af.jpg

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That is really damn close. What PC color is that?

[Red Rider]

Looks like your missing a tin.So that’s what the crank looks like underneath those tins.

[Kamnahrt]

That is really damn close. What PC color is that?Thank you, i thought so as well. It is prismatic chrometatsic with Prismatic spun gold over the top of it.

This my be a dumb question but what is the point of the tin?

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[BOB MARLIN]

My question is where did the tin go?

[Kamnahrt]

Well guys I finally found my flywheel remover, and now I wish I would have just lived in ignorant bliss.

First issue is the counter balancer bearing holder has a broken ear, not huge but annoying enough.

Second issue I found was the roller bearings on the kicker seem to be a little worn allowing the clutch basket to rub, again not a huge ordeal.

On the brighter side the clutch basket shows fairly little wear and the clutch itself seems to be barely used.

Then the real bad news... the left side case seems to have had a real bad day. I assume this is cause from the tin letting the smoke out, hopefully I can find a used one cheap.

Also the rotary selector seems to have chipped off... still don't know how that happened. Surprisingly enough I never felt it so it must be in a half way un used location.

After getting it apart it almost makes me feel bad for beating on it as hard as I did, while at the same time amazing at the abuse they can take with out missing a lick.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180412/78ee8e1d7ec72a10f13d2d02055d61fb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180412/b6d2910e0acb5cfef17e2ed0d6fbc063.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180412/f1b909f5602ea430808ab8260dbd1dad.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180412/e497cf9a4a8ba371e74dfe2d060d5fb1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180412/93744aff7c3184ab77c4eeca57957335.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180412/37264b8280826af63617c8346e96c2e1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180412/0db50852dfd45e449a5fec1417ef430e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180412/0bcaf8b2fc9d4229f5b2361b20b5862e.jpg

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[ironchop]

Wow. That motor has seen it's fair share of injuries.

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[yaegerb]

That clutch basket needs to be filed.

Have the case welded so you don’t have issues with mis-matched cases.

[Kamnahrt]

That clutch basket needs to be filed.

Have the case welded so you don’t have issues with mis-matched cases.

I was going to touch up the basket before install but thank you for the heads up. As for the cases, dad and I had that conversation tonight about the trouble of lapping mis-matched cases and the trouble of mis-alignment. I was already on the search for what casting material was used on these so I could find a suitable material for the patch. My quick search for a replacement was promptly crushed lol. If anyone has any input on what material these cases are cast out of it would be much appreciated.

[atc300r]

I had a similar hole in my left case a few years ago.Sent it to BDT they did an awsome job repairing the cases and matching it to a different right case I sent with it.ESR cases are about $600 ish.Its nearly impossible to find an oem left case with no damage.251594 251595

[Kamnahrt]

I had a similar hole in my left case a few years ago.Sent it to BDT they did an awsome job repairing the cases and matching it to a different right case I sent with it.ESR cases are about $600 ish.Its nearly impossible to find an oem left case with no damage.251594 251595

If you dont mind me asking, do you remember what they charged for the repair?

[atc300r]

With shipping and the work done around $170.I had the left case welded and the right case welded and the oil drain hole repaired.Shipping for me was from NY .

[atc300r]

BDT has a website.Carlos is the owner I think hes a member here on 3ww.Look up bdt motorsports.

[atc300r]

When I was looking for a left case average price was between $150-200 for cases that needed repair.

[Kamnahrt]

Nothing huge today. Got my center case halves half cleaned up and getting ready to tear the bearings out. Also got the new swing arm bearings, bushings and seals installed. The tires are mounted to the rims and all the black parts are loaded to be blasted for powder Monday.

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[atc300r]

If you heat the cases around the bearing with a heat gun they come out very easy.

[ironchop]

To throw the cases in the oven on low and apologize to your wife beforehand cuz your kitchen is about to smell like burnt motor oil [emoji23]

Open end down and the bearings fall out on their own usually. Or tap with a rubber mallet.

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[Kamnahrt]

300, good idea on the heat gun. I had not thought of that, it sounds like a much more life saving idea than chops.

Chop, I just slightly mentioned that to the wife when I came in last night and I think see had flash backs to heads and pistons in the dish washer. I saw my life flash before my eyes... lol

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[Kamnahrt]

Was able to sneak into the blast cabinet after work and clean up the black parts. Dropped them off at the PC place with the couple of gold pieces I had remaining.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180417/cba2d3f578f41ca6da56602ef957a092.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180417/91919509fed0624cd225274358d1ccac.jpg

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[Aulbaugh]

What did you end up doing to get that case fixed?

[Kamnahrt]

I'm still pandering to be honest. I lost most of this past weekend to getting 23 inches of snow all at once so I was busy trying to keep that under control. Unfortunately we don't have an AC tig welder at either locations at work, so welding it myself is out of the question at the moment. I've had about 6 people tell me to jb weld it which I'm just not crazy about. So currently farming out options to have it welded up right now.

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[Kamnahrt]

Welp, went ahead and got my thumb out of my bum and got the bearings pulled out of the cases tonight. Hoping to take them in to work and hot tank them tomorrow, as long as the boys in the shop don't run me off lol. The heat gun tricked worked slicker than owl snot, thank you for the advice!

Also added some close up of the hole, ya know for science.

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[Kamnahrt]

Was able to sneak the cases in over lunch. Didn't get them spotless but knocked most of the big chucks off. Going to boil my left case tonight to try and get the most oil off possible.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/7fcef9a96187aff646d7ffc763974c66.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/4e9f0f61d8f201e7ab79e64dd682b221.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/dc05e195b0780d6c6324912a63db903d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180418/f1fe60a91afdfd7c8c7017ba00111472.jpg

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[Kamnahrt]

Got the broken case set up in the mill today after work and cleaned up the chewed up area. Gotta set myself up for success in every way possible to offset my welding skills.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180419/3e3938c9d43aa6d8f158b5ff6962526e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180419/5bcf8af52b15354824c85b884051ce96.jpg

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[Kamnahrt]

Still have a little worm left to smooth out the patch completely. I ended up stopping at an old buddy's place on the way home and he ended up letting me borrow his welder and mill. It's not perfect but at least it's not a hole.
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[ironchop]

Nice fix!

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[Kamnahrt]

Nice fix!

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Thanks man, Its not perfect but I didnt want to any more heat to fix the slight undercut that you can see on the left side. Its not going to make a functional difference as this is not a high stress area. Once I lap the cases halves together the areas on the side view should melt into each other as the patch is currently sitting a few thou proud. (the reason you can see the split lines from the side view)

[Kamnahrt]

Not much activity recently, I have been waiting on powdercoat and the porter to wrap up. I did stop into the porters shop today, he's hoping to have the cylinder and head done next week. The powder coater has 1 part left so it should be ready next week as well.

On the bright side my ESR pipe showed up today and man does she look good. I'm getting excited to test out this rocketsled. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180510/e3ce19fd142725cc12b767425b911a39.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180510/fd498d9bbd1e12de31e813b044f666e7.jpg

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[2L84U]

That R is going to look sweet when its done! Wish I have one. Who is your powder coat guy? I have a swinger arm that I want done with the same color as yours.

[Kamnahrt]

That R is going to look sweet when its done! Wish I have one. Who is your powder coat guy? I have a swinger arm that I want done with the same color as yours.Thank you very much man. I don't where at you are in Wisconsin but the people doing my coating is QSP in Wausau. They are very reasonable, the frame and red components cost me $100 because I had them primer and coat. Would have been $50 for just top coat. The swinger, rims and hubs only cost me $60. I would Def recommend them.

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[Kamnahrt]

Well I picked up all the parts from the powder coater today. Very happy with the result. Cost we 15 dollars for what you see in the first picture. So I started mocking up some parts got the new races for the front stem installed and just a few minor things. I hope to have it rolling by tomorrow evening.

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[Kamnahrt]

Didn't get as much done today as I was hoping. A buddy stopped by and just a couple turned into a couple Sixers. But we are on rubber again just need to get the linkage buttoned up. The lighting was less than ideal, but the gold looks much better in person.

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[Kamnahrt]

And I just realized, looking at this post, I put my rear brake disc on backwards... SOB

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[Kamnahrt]

Spent the night torquing all the suspension bolts, greasing the linkages and installing same odds and ends. I needed a little motivation so I decided to throw the fenders, plastics and tank on to give me a bump. Good news the itch is back.

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[Red Rider]

Is it the pic, or are the handlebars tweaked? The throttle side looks sad & droopy. :(

[Kamnahrt]

Is it the pic, or are the handlebars tweaked? The throttle side looks sad & droopy. :(

It is tweaked ever so slightly, the picture exaggerates it. It had a pretty good bow to her when I bought the machine and I worked at getting it back to nominal for a good while, but never got it 100%. The problem is they are old answer bars and I really like the profile but I cant find anything close on the new market., so I'm stuck running these and adjusting them ever so often till I can get them back to perfect. I would say they are 96% of being true.


Side note does any one know the dimensions of the 2 chain rollers for an 86 R?

[Red Rider]

Side note does any one know the dimensions of the 2 chain rollers for an 86 R?I don't know the dimensions of the OEM rollers, but I replaced mine with these rollers from TM Designworks. They fit nice & work great still, many years after the install. https://tmdesignworks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=189_190_173&products_id=277

[Kamnahrt]

I don't know the dimensions of the OEM rollers, but I replaced mine with these rollers from TM Designworks. They fit nice & work great still, many years after the install. https://tmdesignworks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=189_190_173&products_id=277

I have seen these, the problem is I feel like $25 a piece is highway robbery. For $10 in bearings and some scrap UHMW or poly i have laying around its way cheaper for me to spin them out on the lathe. Thank you though for bringing these up as an option.

[Red Rider]

I have seen these, the problem is I feel like $25 a piece is highway robbery. For $10 in bearings and some scrap UHMW or poly i have laying around its way cheaper for me to spin them out on the lathe. Thank you though for bringing these up as an option.Yep, I agree. Every time I see these, I forget that the price is only for 1 roller. $25 for the set would be an honest price, and would still make them a nice profit I bet. Be sure to post pics of your fabwork.

[Kamnahrt]

Yep, I agree. Every time I see these, I forget that the price is only for 1 roller. $25 for the set would be an honest price, and would still make them a nice profit I bet. Be sure to post pics of your fabwork.Welp I didn't have any scrap the right size in the shop for UHMW so I had to break down and order some. But the bearings and the material came out to $16 bucks. Should net me around 5 rollers. Stuff should be in Friday so probably a next monday/Tuesday job. The 1.375 comes out yo 34.925 OD, my target was 34-35 this should fit the bill and remove an OP. Anyway here are some crusty shop notes (for posterity) since I didn't have one to measure. The second picture is the bearing sitting on a socket that is the target diameter of the outer shoulder, I was just playing with ratios and proportions.

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[Kamnahrt]

In the down time the real fun has started... I know the the pictures don't show the best but these is the before shots. The standing has begun, we made it to 400 grit tonight before I had to pick my arm up off the floor. I'm not looking for perfect, just trying to knock down the mountains and smooth out the craters.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180524/28cc8f808eddde08719029fe7be01922.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180524/ce9635226f537961b458d272e17fcaf1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180524/c464594e04806112bf9fa07d351f7978.jpg

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[Kamnahrt]

I took the fender up to 1500 grit tonight. (First 3 pictures) Plastic was, for the most part, as smooth as Steve McQueen. 4th picture is about 10 minutes into the left side. And finally the last picture was about 20 minutes of polishing, still have some work but it's coming along.

In other news, the bearings and UHMW rod came in so I might be able to squeeze out some bearings tomorrow afternoon.


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[Stingray]

How does the UHMW material compare to delrin?

[Kamnahrt]

How does the UHMW material compare to delrin?That is a slightly loaded question as it depends on what you are looking for.

Delrin is a much more stable and easy machining material. It wont cold flow and will maintain precision tolerances much better than UHMW.

UHMW (ultra high molecular weight polyethylene) is a very dense, hence high molecular weight, plastic which makes it very good, better than delrin, at impact and abrasion loading. Though it is a bear to machine and is known to cold flow it's not the best choice for high precision tolerances. It is also half the cost of delrin.

So neither is better over all, just situationally better. And the shock, impact, and abrasion loading advantages are why I went UHMW for this application.

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[ironchop]

... Though it is a bear to machine and is known to cold flow it's not the best choice for high precision tolerances. It is also half the cost of delrin...
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That's putting it lightly.

I don't care how you hold it down, UHMW is incapable of being machined in perfectly parallel or square sides. That stuff defies all the laws of physics and geometry both. And the bigger the piece, the worse your results, speaking in a precision tolerance sense. [emoji848][emoji23]

(Sarcasm) I swear you'd be just as successful hammering it into the desired shape as cutting it

Can you tell I had to mill a bunch of it just last week? I can't remember being that frustrated except the last time I turned a bunch of Inconel for a month



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[Kamnahrt]

That's putting it lightly.

I don't care how you hold it down, UHMW is incapable of being machined in perfectly parallel or square sides. That stuff defies all the laws of physics and geometry both. And the bigger the piece, the worse your results, speaking in a precision tolerance sense. [emoji848][emoji23]

(Sarcasm) I swear you'd be just as successful hammering it into the desired shape as cutting it

Can you tell I had to mill a bunch of it just last week? I can't remember being that frustrated except the last time I turned a bunch of Inconel for a month



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:lol::lol: Well I might have down played its wonderful machinability which is not unlike pushing a rope. Also, my condolences to you patience for having to dick with that stuff for a week. I have never had to turn any inconel but if its any like titanium I feel your pain!

[Kamnahrt]

Had some time to sneak out to the shop today while the boys were at lunch. I still need to deburr some of the fuzz off but I ran out of time. Il admit not as pretty as the $25 ones but they should hold a chain.

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[ironchop]

They'll be dirtier five minutes after you drag a chain across them anyway

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[82 250r]

Looking at your sanded fenders gives me flashbacks. Took me 5 days to sand mine to 1500.
It was well worth it...they still look good 5 years later.

Your build looks awesome!
Marc

[Kamnahrt]

The project had been on a slight hold recently. The porter was slammed so it took a little long than expected but I finally have the top end back. The head has been decked .010, a mid range port and re bore to the next piston size ( 68mm). Next to blast and powder to get it back to the year correct silver.

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[bkm]

I looked into doing chain rollers back when I started with the delrin bushings. I even bought the bearings and bits to make it work, but never got around to it. Your project looks great keep it up.

[Kamnahrt]

I looked into doing chain rollers back when I started with the delrin bushings. I even bought the bearings and bits to make it work, but never got around to it. Your project looks great keep it up.Thank you sir, they weren't bad at all 15 minutes in the lathe and you're pressing in bearings.

I know this isn't R related but hey it's my party il cry if I want to. Here are some pics of the ol big red getting a hot supper this weekend. Clearing some paths through the back 40 and setting up some food plots.

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[Kamnahrt]

Well gentlemen I called away on work for the past 3 weeks out of country so there hasn't been a lot of progress. I had a couple presents awaiting me when I got back. A new rotating assembly from hot rods, I do enjoy there packaging. All of the bearings and seals are en route and lastly got to throw the cases into the blaster tonight and hoping to put her in the wash tank tomorrow.

The only thing I need now is a new countershaft retainer/timing holder. I do have a question for the masses about the adjustable timing retainer. Is it worth the extra 20 bones to add that feature to be able to find tune the timing in? Do these bikes respond well to timing changes?

Thank you guys for looking and the input!

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[atc300r]

When your ready to install your crank put it the freezer night before and heat your crank bearing it will slip right in.The hot rod cranks are press fit .

[Kamnahrt]

When your ready to install your crank put it the freezer night before and heat your crank bearing it will slip right in.The hot rod cranks are press fit .Thank you very much for the insight on that. Should save me quite of cursing and frustration.

I was able to finish sanding down 90% of the rear fenders tonight. I finished buffed the left side and hope to get to the right tomorrow. They aren't perfect but this is gonna be a rider not a show piece so I'm happy.

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[ironchop]

Thank you very much for the insight on that. Should save me quite of cursing and frustration.

I was able to finish sanding down 90% of the rear fenders tonight. I finished buffed the left side and hope to get to the right tomorrow. They aren't perfect but this is gonna be a rider not a show piece so I'm happy.

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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using TapatalkFenders look alot better.



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[Kamnahrt]

Well bearing and gaskets came in today! [emoji3] Sadly I stopped at the powdercoat facility today to drop my engine cases off and the ol boy behind the counter informed me they won't powder coat engines due to the heat. [emoji58]

In other news I moved to sanding down the gas tank and polishing it up. It turned out much better than the fenders.... which leads to an inherent issue that lives deep inside of me. So back down to 400 went the fenders and we will start the process off polishing them again.

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[ironchop]

Looking good.

I love getting those boxes of new OEM parts


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[El Camexican]

Nice job!!!

[Kamnahrt]

Finally got a chance to throw everything in the hot tank for a final clean. Degreased everything and shot on some primer. Finished up with a few coats of color.

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[ironchop]

Putting the motor together is the fun part

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[Kamnahrt]

Putting the motor together is the fun part

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The only thing that concerns me is the gear train. I know the gear cluster, shifting forks and shifter labyrinth is going to make me want to toss a hammer.

[Kamnahrt]

Broke out the glass and lapping compound and got all the surfaces trued up. After only a few curse words got the gear set in and shifting through all the gears. Crank is in the freezer and will hopefully be in tomorrow.

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[El Camexican]

Takes a brave man to lap cases after painting. Hope you got it all cleaned up.

Not sure why they turned you away at the powder coaters. Most powder melts at 400F, way hotter than the outside of your water cooled 2 stroke will ever get. If you find the right custom place there are even powders that can handle 800 plus. Checkout Powder By the Pound if you haven’t already.

I love the freezer trick, but make sure you pour the water out of the crankcase when you get the cases put together and dry it out with a heat gun, or a hair dryer and get some oil on it ASAP or it will rust up.

[Kamnahrt]

Takes a brave man to lap cases after painting. Hope you got it all cleaned up.

Not sure why they turned you away at the powder coaters. Most powder melts at 400F, way hotter than the outside of your water cooled 2 stroke will ever get. If you find the right custom place there are even powders that can handle 800 plus. Checkout Powder By the Pound if you haven’t already.

I love the freezer trick, but make sure you pour the water out of the crankcase when you get the cases put together and dry it out with a heat gun, or a hair dryer and get some oil on it ASAP or it will rust up.

Lets be honest, bravery is just ignorance in disguise. But yes all 4 cases/covers got a very liberal cleaning afterwards. Lol.

As far as the powdercoater, you know that I know that, anyone that can read prismatics website knows that. Unfortunately the guy running the shop did not want my business this time around. But I digress, sometimes its not worth rolling in the mud to bring home the bacon.

Thank you for the insight on the heat gun for the aftermath for the crank bearings I will be sure to use that. I did plan on an aftersoak in oil before assembling the cases. Any extra rust mitigation is welcomed.

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[El Camexican]

Assuming you have your crank bearings installed it helps to warm the cases up (especially the bearings) before you install the crank.

[Kamnahrt]

Well last night I got the main bearings sweat on and the whole assembly back in the freezer. I thought I grabbed a pic but that's what I get for thinking.

Today I snuck out to the shop and gave my exhaust flange the ol ironchop treatment. Added another o-ring groove and then blasted all the schmooz off. After blast your think it came that way from j a pan.

Thank you again chop for letting me copy your brilliant idea on this.

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[ironchop]

I probably didn't invent that modification.

Looking good

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[Kamnahrt]

I probably didn't invent that modification.

Looking good

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That may be true but the first I saw of it came from your thread. I didnt want anyone thinking I was capable of that caliber of thinking on my own... :lol:

[Kamnahrt]

Well I was making some decent head way tonight. Got the outer clutch basket filed up and smooth again, the crank installed and the inner cases sandwiched together, and 90% of the right side innards buttoned up. Then of course Murphy and his stupid laws had to show up to the party. I was having trouble getting the spring to fit into the captured hole, it just seemed like the stand off was a little canted. Well turns out it was and when I gave the spring a little more pressure *snap*. Time to quick for the night I guess.

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[ironchop]

DOH! [emoji43]

That will f**k your momentum right up.



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[atc300r]

My innerclutch has one that has been welded back on in a motor I bought from ebay.

[Kamnahrt]

Chop,

Ain't no kidding there. But with the basket case this motor was, there honestly wasn't any curse words. Its was more just, well that figures lol.

300r,

I thought about doing that but for $50 for an new OEM basket, it wasn't worth the hassle. My time is worth more than that, if you know what I mean.

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[Kamnahrt]

Short night but good progress. Got the left side all buttoned up, yes the flywheel looks rough but it's as clean as possible with out blasting. When I removed it it was completely rusted out. I let it soak in evaporust to clean the rust off and in the picture it's just liberally soaked in WD40. I decided to go with the BDT adjustable timing plate. Figure worst case I don't mess with timing and it was a wasted 20 bones. It had to be replaced anyway so no harm no foul. Got the piston installed after only chasing the wrist pin clips into Narnia 3 times, so it could have been worse. Then threw it in the frame, still need the clutch basket but it should be here Thursday. I just needed to see it in the frame to keep my motivation levels high.

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[El Camexican]

yes the flywheel looks rough but it's as clean as possible with out blasting. When I removed it it was completely rusted out. I let it soak in evaporust to clean the rust off and in the picture it's just liberally soaked in WD40

I lightly primed & painted the last nasty one I had after sanding it down. I was thinking that maybe, just maybe it could be re-plated without removing the magnets, but as far as I can tell the magnets are installed after the original plating is done, so I went with paint.

[Kamnahrt]

I lightly primed & painted the last nasty one I had after sanding it down. I was thinking that maybe, just maybe it could be re-plated without removing the magnets, but as far as I can tell the magnets are installed after the original plating is done, so I went with paint.

I really did think about doing that with this one, but the more I thought about it the more the diminishing returns words echoed in my head. I'm banking on the fact I'll probably have that side cover off a fair number of times dialing in the timing so a few liberal coatings of RP and it should live out a fairly rust free life.

[Kamnahrt]

New clutch basket came in today along with the head gasket so the motor is 100% buttoned up finally. And whoa momma does it have some compression. Apparently both of my gauges want to leak down at the moment so I don't have a solid number, it's way more better than it was.

Other than that just buttoned up the radiators and a few other odds and ends. Unfortunately I have a wedding 6 hours a way this weekend and am tied up tomorrow and friday. It's looking like no test runs until next week.
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[ironchop]

Awesome. I haven't done squat to mine in a couple weeks.

Did you use a CR head gasket?

And do your coolant hoses rub each other near the head? I know I need to trim them up a bit but I don't like how the hose lays on one of the wires on my CDI plug.

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[Kamnahrt]

Awesome. I haven't done squat to mine in a couple weeks.

Did you use a CR head gasket?

And do your coolant hoses rub each other near the head? I know I need to trim them up a bit but I don't like how the house lays on one of the wires on my CDI plug.

Sent from my Z958 using TapatalkThank you sir!

No sir, I used 1 side of a trx250r gasket.

And yes the hoses are really starting to get on my nerves. Like you the touch on they crossover in front of the head, are right up against the cdi box and I'm not impressed with the angles of the formed bends. Almost like the $20 Chinese silicon hoses might have been a too good to be true deal.

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[ironchop]

Yeah that's exactly what brand i bought too. When I hold them up to the older stock hoses, the bends are close but not exact and they need the ends trimmed I think because mine are smashed up against the tank when I mounted it up to the frame
Thank you sir!

No sir, I used 1 side of a trx250r gasket.

And yes the hoses are really starting to get on my nerves. Like you the touch on they crossover in front of the head, are right up against the cdi box and I'm not impressed with the angles of the formed bends. Almost like the $20 Chinese silicon hoses might have been a too good to be true deal.

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[El Camexican]

I gave up on those hoses for my bike and went to Auto Zone with the stockers and asked to be left alone in the rad hose section.

20 minutes later I had a hand full of hoses with the bends I needed. Took them home, cut the sections I wanted out with a razor blade and Shazam! Brand new high quality discontinued rad hoses. I don’t remember what it cost me in total, but it wasn’t very much.

BTW, for future reference the large outside part of the clutch you filed the grooves out of is called the basket and the smaller one that broke on you is call the hub.

[Kamnahrt]

Chop, I had the same thing happening when I tried to fit the tank. To be fair I haven't gave it that much effort yet as i was just mocking things up and test fitting the hoses at this point. I will update you when I get them into final resting placement.

Camex, That's a fairly good ideal, assuming you have an in in the parts department. I'm not really disappointed per say in the hoses they do feel decent quality, and I'm sure once I take the time to properly fit them they will be okay. Thank you for the correction on the clutch monikers!

[Kamnahrt]

Well got everything all buttoned up. The engine ice is coming in tomorrow and I'm picking up the 110 race fuel after work to hopefully try and start it up. I still need to get a decal set on order and do the final buffing on the rear fenders. But it's nice to have it all back together.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180807/3e9918aa4146313ef7a42a5717a6ea6c.jpg

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[Kamnahrt]

Well gentlemen, I topped off the fluids last night, mixed the fuel and tried to get the old girl fired up.....

And on the 3rd kick she roared to life :D Ran rough for about 5-10 minutes then once the heat came into the cylinder it was like someone flipped a switch. It idled like a dream, was revving very easy and quick and sounded even. I heat cycled it 3 times last night, I'm sure just enough to piss off all the neighbors. I plan on one more tonight then a nice easy ride through my woods and hopefully I'll be able to do some plug chops and WOT pulls tomorrow night. Once I figure out how to upload a video here I will share some sound clips.

[Kamnahrt]

Got the rear fenders buffed and everything is finished aside from the decals that should be in friday.

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[Kamnahrt]

And the saga continues... Let me start by saying my dad always preached murphys law, but in my own opinion I think he was an optimist.

Took the old girl out for final tuning now that I had some time got the jetting dialed in and was cruising back to the truck to start messing with needle positioning. Got half way back and it started acting like I was fouling a plug, wouldn't rev was choking on itself. Then all the sudden the sound of metal on metal clicking then a final pop as the wheels and everything locked up.

As you can see the bottom part of the sleeve, that goes into the crankcase, grenaded. Looking at some of the bigger chunks it appears this was either an existing crack that was missed by both me and the porter or possibly a material flaw.

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[Gabriel]

That sux!

I had a 1979 Suzuki PE250 that did that with nauseating regularity. Between my junior year of High school till christmas of my senior (when i sold it) it must've done it 5 or 6 times. The first one happened because the anti rotation pin on the compression ring was passing over a port. That's a no-no. The other times, I never understood it. It happened once in a mud hole and I was pushing the engine full throttle for too long...stupid hard, I guess that one made sense too.

Sorry. Hopefully you can track down all the pieces and don't have to split the case.

[ironchop]

Awe dude.

That sucks.

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[yaegerb]

Catching up on this thread only to witness this carnage. Did you have the cylinder bored to the piston? Takes a lot of slap to break off a dog ear.

[El Camexican]

Catching up on this thread only to witness this carnage. Did you have the cylinder bored to the piston? Takes a lot of slap to break off a dog ear.

Yeah, that choking on itself explanation sounds an awful lot like a seizure.

[Kamnahrt]

Gabriel: At this points its all gotta come back apart. There are bits and pieces scattered throughout everywhere.

Ironchop: Some days you're the Hammer, some days you're the nail. At least it gave me an excuse to uncork a new bottle of whiskey last night. Gotta look at the positives :lol:

yaegerb: Yes, the same gentleman that ported the cylinder also bored and honed the cylinder for my new piston. When I checked it after I got it back, I was ~.0026" clearance with about .0005" of taper from stem to stern.

El Camexican: Based on the condition of the cylinder wall and the piston wall I do not believe it was starting to seize. Other than some grooving from FOD there is no apparent galling to be seen. Again Based on the failure area it looks like there was a lot of old break/void in the casting. Why it waited to come apart after I built it and not on the ice last winter, that Murphy guy is an optimist.

[Aulbaugh]

ouch. That sucks to be tuning and have that problem! Time to spend some more money. Hopefully that whiskey washed away the problem mentally for a bit.

[Kamnahrt]

ouch. That sucks to be tuning and have that problem! Time to spend some more money. Hopefully that whiskey washed away the problem mentally for a bit.I have yet to find a problem good whiskey and a back porch cant ease. But I got to looking at the sleeve again this morning and it appears the other dog ear is cracked as well.

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[yaegerb]

I would just send it to LA sleeve with a stock size piston kit. Let them resleeve it for you. They take approx 4-6 weeks but it will be brand new when you get it back.

[Gabriel]

Dang that's an expensive hit.

The older I get the more I keep (re)learning it's really difficult to beat bone stock. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT berating the decision to port the engine but I wonder if that didn't make it weak?

I had every intention of doing a full port and polish, XR200 cam and bigger carb/exhaust on my current 200ES build and have talked myself out of it. After talking to more knowledgable people, the problems I am going to run into for such an endeavor ain't worth the gains.

I hope you get this squared away. ATC parts are getting harder and harder to find. Every part lost.....

Good luck buddy. Keep us apprised.

[El Camexican]

The older I get the more I keep (re)learning it's really difficult to beat bone stock.

I’m about getting there myself. No more records to be set in the three wheeler world, so why to we keep dicking with what works?

[Gabriel]

I’m about getting there myself. No more records to be set in the three wheeler world, so why to we keep dicking with what works?

20 years ago I'd be all over the fastest thing on earth. Now, my 200cc's are PLENTY. The way i see things now, anything past 3rd gear low range and I'll just end up dropping my fishing pole and spilling my beer. Who needs that complicating good living?

[yaegerb]

So, post 56 I am seeing some troublesome work done by your guy. First off, there are no cross hatch marks in the cylinder which means your rings will have an extremely hard time seating....if they ever do. The other thing I see is in the last pic, showing the exhaust port. If you look at the bottom on the right and the left I see two grey smudges which are indicative of a stressed cylinder wall. What’s more is if you zoom in on the right side I see a grey line going through the smudge which to me looks like a crack. Did you thoroughly inspect this cylinder when you got it back? The porting looks like a high CR port as well. Who did this work?

[Kamnahrt]

So, post 56 I am seeing some troublesome work done by your guy. First off, there are no cross hatch marks in the cylinder which means your rings will have an extremely hard time seating....if they ever do. The other thing I see is in the last pic, showing the exhaust port. If you look at the bottom on the right and the left I see two grey smudges which are indicative of a stressed cylinder wall. What’s more is if you zoom in on the right side I see a grey line going through the smudge which to me looks like a crack. Did you thoroughly inspect this cylinder when you got it back? The porting looks like a high CR port as well. Who did this work?There was a good crosshatch in the cylinder. The pictures don't show it well but it was there. Yes I inspected it very well, but that doesn't mean I didn't miss something. The little smudges and line I see what you're saying but it very well could be fingerprints or stressors. At this point I cannot say. The porting job is supposed to be a mid-high range port, unfortunately I'm not inept enough of what it should look like to judge that. As far as the gentleman that did the work, its Kinny Racing here is Wausau Wi. He has a great reputation locally with the 2 stroke guys.

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[El Camexican]

So, post 56 I am seeing some troublesome work done by your guy. First off, there are no cross hatch marks in the cylinder which means your rings will have an extremely hard time seating....if they ever do. The other thing I see is in the last pic, showing the exhaust port. If you look at the bottom on the right and the left I see two grey smudges which are indicative of a stressed cylinder wall. What’s more is if you zoom in on the right side I see a grey line going through the smudge which to me looks like a crack. Did you thoroughly inspect this cylinder when you got it back? The porting looks like a high CR port as well. Who did this work?

Wow, good eye. That does look like a crack on my phone screen. That hone job looks like they didn’t get a very nice crosshatch pattern.

[yaegerb]

There was a good crosshatch in the cylinder. The pictures don't show it well but it was there. Yes I inspected it very well, but that doesn't mean I didn't miss something. The little smudges and line I see what you're saying but it very well could be fingerprints or stressors. At this point I cannot say. The porting job is supposed to be a mid-high range port, unfortunately I'm not inept enough of what it should look like to judge that. As far as the gentleman that did the work, its Kinny Racing here is Wausau Wi. He has a great reputation locally with the 2 stroke guys.

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Ok, I am not about to bash anyone, life’s full of lessons. My advice is to take the cases back apart, new crank bearings/seals and possibly tranny bearings depending on how far back the bits went. You will also need to get the big end rod bearing replaced. I strongly suggest buying a first bore wiseco, sending it with your cylinder to LA sleeve. I have had very good luck with them. It will be extra to get the port work matched by your guy, but you will have a piece of mind as it will be a new sleeve perfectly matched to your piston and you will have many overbores left.

[Kamnahrt]

Ok, I am not about to bash anyone, life’s full of lessons. My advice is to take the cases back apart, new crank bearings/seals and possibly tranny bearings depending on how far back the bits went. You will also need to get the big end rod bearing replaced. I strongly suggest buying a first bore wiseco, sending it with your cylinder to LA sleeve. I have had very good luck with them. It will be extra to get the port work matched by your guy, but you will have a piece of mind as it will be a new sleeve perfectly matched to your piston and you will have many overbores left.[emoji106]. The cylinder is for sure going to LA sleeve for repair to factory bore. The internals il know more once I get it split and can assess the situation a little better. I'm not trying to take sides or pull punches on his side or ignore your much appreciated input. But standing where we are I cant justify tarnishing or point fingers at the engine shop, there isn't enough evidence either way. Il wear the dunce hat on this one and move forward a more enlightened dummy. Definitely not the first not the last il have to strap it on. Lol

Thank you very very much for your insight and opinions.

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[Kamnahrt]

Wow, good eye. That does look like a crack on my phone screen. That hone job looks like they didn’t get a very nice crosshatch pattern.It's very possible that it was and I overlooked it/didn't see it. It would jive with my findings on the carnage that it was an old flaw.

Thank you very much for your input as well!

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[Kamnahrt]

Well I know it's been a long hiatus and I went dark after the sudden upset. The good news is we are back in business, motor went in to the frame tonight and was running in 3 kicks. Time to try all this one more time.

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[Aulbaugh]

Glad to see you got it finished and back up and running.

[yaegerb]

Well I know it's been a long hiatus and I went dark after the sudden upset. The good news is we are back in business, motor went in to the frame tonight and was running in 3 kicks. Time to try all this one more time.

258563258564

Glad you got it back up and running again. What all did you have to end up doing to the cylinder to correct it?

[Kamnahrt]

Glad to see you got it finished and back up and running.

Glad you got it back up and running again. What all did you have to end up doing to the cylinder to correct it?

Thanks gentlemen. And the cylinder was completely dickered, I split the cases and found that both of the case halves had holes plum through the crankcase area. It was at that point I put the project on hold trying to establish a forward path. The price through LA sleeve was right around $450. Between that, case half repair, and other mics. expenses I decided that for now a donor would be the best solution. The new motor is a low hour take out of a 1988 TRX that I got for a song. It is stock porting with an upgraded clutch pack, I swapped over the flywheel and ignition out of the 86 and everything seems to be copacetic so far.

[Aulbaugh]

Thanks gentlemen. And the cylinder was completely dickered, I split the cases and found that both of the case halves had holes plum through the crankcase area. It was at that point I put the project on hold trying to establish a forward path. The price through LA sleeve was right around $450. Between that, case half repair, and other mics. expenses I decided that for now a donor would be the best solution. The new motor is a low hour take out of a 1988 TRX that I got for a song. It is stock porting with an upgraded clutch pack, I swapped over the flywheel and ignition out of the 86 and everything seems to be copacetic so far.

That worked out well for you then! the 88 trx is a long rod right?

[yaegerb]

That worked out well for you then! the 88 trx is a long rod right?

87-89 were long rods.

[Red Rider]

Glad to hear you're back out tearing up the dirt again. I've been itching to do that as well.

[Kamnahrt]

Thank you Red. And yes, this is a long rod motor. Also the 88-89 have the short ratio transmission, correct me if I'm misspoken, which will better suit the style of riding that I do.