200x cam replacement problems

[deathwobble]

Tore into my 200x I bought recently to put a xr200 cam into it. I have the motor on top dead center, the valve tappets are super loose and the cam chain sprocket is removed but the camshaft will not pull out from the head. Does it mean my cam journals are shot? There any fix for that or does it mean a new head? Followed everything in the manual so I'm assuming the cam not coming out freely is a bad sign.

[deathwobble]

Also if this makes a difference the cam will spin easily till the lobes try to lift the valves and also there is a little wiggle in and out to it, however it wont slide all the way out.

[ironchop]

There should be a retainer plate you have to remove to pull the camshaft out

You have to pull the cam and actually measure the lobes in order to know for sure if it's bad. The movement you speak of is normal even with a new cam

Looks like #7 in this schematic...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180317/33d2ce27db63e7d934dd4342c1a9fa62.jpg

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[deathwobble]

Thanks Ironchop as the manual I have does not mention the retainer. However I removed the retainer and still no luck. Cam only wiggles some and will not come out.

[ironchop]

Thanks Ironchop as the manual I have does not mention the retainer. However I removed the retainer and still no luck. Cam only wiggles some and will not come out.It's kind of a tricky thing to remove for sure. You almost need three hands unless you pull the valve cover (which has no gasket so it can be reinstalled easily with just some new gasket sealer). You might loosen the valve cover, take the inspection caps over the valve springs off, and back off the studs on the rockers that contact the valve stem tops. You also have to hold down the rockers to the valve stem tops so the rockers don't fall between the lobes and keep the cam from coming out

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[ironchop]

Matter of fact, just pull the valve cover off the head and you can see the journals and remove cam easily

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[ironchop]

When the cam lobes get really worn bad, they get ridges on the side of the lobes and if someone kept adjusting the valve lash, theoretically, those ridges could keep cam from coming out easily

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[shortline10]

Part number 2 inner cam bushing has most likely gotten groves worn into it as with the cam .
This will cause the cam to be hard to remove .
Do like Doug has suggested , pull the valve cover and it will come out easily .

I have seen this a lot with motors run low on oil .

[deathwobble]

Thanks guys, I'll try just removing the head then, might be tricky cause one of the allen bolts looks pretty stripped from someone being in there before. Might have to get tricky with the welder and put a nut head on it or something if its completely stripped. Let you know how it goes when I have time to pull the head.

[Scootertrash]

Matter of fact, just pull the valve cover off the head and you can see the journals and remove cam easily

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This. As a bonus, it never hurts to freshen up your sealing compounds. Don't use Permatex. Use YamaBond, HondaBond, ThreeBond 1194.

[deathwobble]

Thanks. I'm going the pull the head route but one of those allen bolts holding the head on is stripped and on there what seems to me to be to tight. So I bought a torx bit that I'm going to weld into the allen head to get the bolt out. I know with cars you are suppose to disconnect the battery before welding on them, is it crucial to disconnect anything before welding it?

[shortline10]

Can’t you get a pair of vice grips on the Allen head bolt to loosen it ?
A little heat from a torch for about 30 seconds and the vice grips and you should be able to get it loose .
If your going the welding route remove the carburetor and any electrical that’s close .

[deathwobble]

I'll try grabbing it with vise grips just think the bolt is in there tight(probably too tight) so not sure it will happen.

[deathwobble]

Alright guys, 2 of those allens were stripped and on there super tight, slotted them and used one of those manual impacts you hit with a hammer to get them out. Anyway today I finally got the head "pulled". Is there anyway to get the head completely off while the motor is still in the bike? cause mine lifts up and gets close but doesnt come out. Also once I had the head pulled I found out that the cam bushing (part #2 in iron chops diagram) will spin on the cam and slide back and forth a bit however the bushing will not slide off, this is why the cam would not pull out with the head on. The cam bushing also has some discoloration from getting hot on one side (blue/purple from heat) does this mean I need a cam bushing as well or why wont it pull off the cam.

[shortline10]

Reread my post #8 I explained why the bushing is stuck .
You will need a new cam and bushing .
No the head will not come off without removing the motor .

[ironchop]

Yeah you're going to have to take the motor loose to get the head off all the way. I've pulled the motor mounting bolts out, pulled the airbox boot off the carb, pulled the front sprocket, pull the spark plug wire, and lifted the motor up enough to get it from between the frame tabs and then tilt the motor just enough to pull the head.

That's the very least work to get the head off. After that, you'd only have the throttle cable, clutch cable, and electrical wiring left connected to the motor but I've been able to manuever the motor with that stuff still attached.

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[deathwobble]

Gotcha I thought you'd same cam journal not cam bushing, already have a new xr 200 cam for it so now I'll have to get a cam bushing. Is the cam bushing the same for a 200x and xr200? Mostly wondering if i can pick one up from the dealership.

[ironchop]

Mike (Shortline10) knows much more about these than I do. He owns a motorcycle/ATV repair shop with particular experience with the ATC200X both racing and wrenching

I sent him some 200X head work recently to get valve guides installed and the head reassembled. He knows these things up and down.

Take lots of pics of all this stuff and also take pics of what the head and valve cover looks like where the big end of the cam was riding in particular.

Before you reassemble, post up here because there is a tiny rubber plug that's important for you to not lose or get knocked out because it plugs a hole where the oil feed for your cam journal was drilled and it needs to be in there on reinstall. Very important

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[deathwobble]

Yeah id just thought he had said cam journal not cam bushing and didn't go back and reread it today but he was spot on thats the problem. I believe I know the rubber plug you are referring too as I saw it when pulling the cam and it is still in place.

[ironchop]

Gotcha I thought you'd same cam journal not cam bushing, already have a new xr 200 cam for it so now I'll have to get a cam bushing. Is the cam bushing the same for a 200x and xr200? Mostly wondering if i can pick one up from the dealership.

Yeah the cam bushing is still available from Honda and will work with the XR cam as far as I know. Shortline10 should confirm this is true, I hope

83-85 ATC200X cam bushing....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180323/6069874195db1b266c973416dc22f237.jpg

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[deathwobble]

Cool thank you ironchop. Hopefully shortline can chime in and confirm that so I can get one of those on order and get this motor back together so I can get a few other things done on this trike before summer is here.

[shortline10]

Yes the cam bushings are the same as the xr200r and still available threw Honda .

[deathwobble]

Thanks shortline. Ordered one from the local honda dealership today. $30 bucks for a oem honda part I wont complain! Shortline I have one more quick question, I also have a 200s, wanted to put the 200x cam in the 200s if it was still in spec (havent taken a caliper to it yet to see if its still in spec) if it is in spec if i pulled the head on my 200s could I put it in or since that bushing is stuck on should I consider the cam fried?

[shortline10]

Trying to understand your question lol , are you asking if the cam is still usable with the stuck bushing ? I wouldn’t use it .

[deathwobble]

My bad on writing it kinda of confusing but yes, before I ran into the cam bushing problem I was hoping to reuse the cam. Now I won't.