CPSC what really happened??

[nipper]

hi i'm new to all this trike legal stuff (although i have owned atv trikes for over 3 years!!). so what attually happened? yeah they were banned but why and how did they get away with doing it???
thx
nip

[Domingo]

I was going to post the same thing in a couple days. I would like to know what happened and how the ban movement all got started. I hope someone who knows can help us out.

[speedracer350X]

Basically if I can remember correctley, it was more or less people suing the crap out of all the big makers of 3 wheelers, mainly Honda. I think it more or less got to the point where alot of lawyers pushed the subject with the CPSC, mainly a fellow by the name of Stuart Statler? Back in around 85 or so. I started out in 85 on a brand new 110 (still have it). I was only 11 at the time, but I got a subscription to ATV News, and their always was articles about the manufactures vs. the CPSC. And in my opinion, alot of people saw it as a get rich quick scheme. I mean, no offense to the people who got hurt, but 99% of us realize it is usually the riders fault, not the machine. And I remember 20/20 shows, deliberatly rolling a 200S to prove how "dangerous" 3 wheelers supposedly are. Plus they showed clips of young and I mean small riders, on 250R's and such, flying around the dunes and wrecking, no helmet of course. But gee, where are the parents? I remember the first 6 months I had my 110, my dad always watched me in the yard. Helmet on, always. Then later, just like learning to ride a bike, checking in at the house every so often. ANyways, sorry to ramble on. Mostly that's my plain jane version of what happend. Same thing trying to go on again, with all ATV's. SO people, we all have to practice and preach safe, respectful riding!!!

[Billy Golightly]

I started to write soemthing a long time ago but lost interest, maybe I'll start it again. The politics that got it started were more or less several hearings conducted by the CPSC across the nation, and then they made a "Decision" After the hearings were conducted.

[nitekrawler]

In english, what happen :?:

[ChrisD]

Speedracer is correct. People were getting hurt on threewheelers by being irresponsible. 20/20 got ahold of the story and did a 1/2 hour special on threewheelers titled "Most Dangerous Vehicle"

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421449125/0.jpg

That created a public outrage and the threewheeler was doomed to the same fate as "lawndarts".

Acutally, the CPSC was trying to ban all ATV sales at the time and the manufacturers settled on threewheelers and more warning labels on fourwheelers. The reality of it was that this whole event created a lot of liability for the manufacturers. Honda (the whole company) would have been forced into bankruptcy if all of the cases were won against them. I was talking to some guys at HRC a couple years ago and they noted that Honda wants to forget the whole thing ever happened. Too bad. They are a ton of fun!

People need to take responsibility for their own actions. This is the same reason that we lose places to ride every day.

[nitekrawler]

Told wife, thats why I want to buy more land! Half acre isnt enough. I would like two now or more for kids to ride around without problems from anyone :!:

[mymint87]

never realized that emphasis 20/20 had on the word "VEHICLE"....its noy the most dangerous vehicle. it may have been the most dangerous "CYCLE" but then that would put them in the catagory of motorized bike which probably in them selves are more dangerous than }AUTOS"


nevertheless the mass production of a sport trike is dead..

most "ol timers" (racers, mod fabricators, etc.) of 3 wheelers have moved on to quads ................................

never to return except for maybe a stroll down memory lane


so then were will the resurgence of the sport trike come from?

hmmmm ...i woonder....

maybe from forums like these?

[MN250R]

Well my ATC 250R is the first Trike i have ever owned. I have ridden my buddys 200x a Long time ago, but
I have ridden quads my whole life. And being it seems to take more skill to ride trike, makes it all the more fun! I remember seeing that 20/20 show when i was younger, but i was to young to even own an atv at that time. Sure was a dissapointment for them to stop making them.

[Trikeaholic]

thats right, mint, its up to the old school diehards to keep them going. Its not illegal or banned to manufacture or import a trike anymore, it just takes some BALLS and I guess noone has them. I think ATK should give the finger to the govt and build one. Rotax 250 liquid motor, oooooooooooooooo, WP suspension, ahhhhhhhhhh. sweet. I would like to buy an older 250 LQ and build one from a 250R frame I have laying around, use the ATK gas tank and shrouds, motor, forks, custom triples, WOW. Thats my dream project. Someday. ;)

[Domingo]

ChrisD...Do you know where I could get ahold of and watch that 20/20 episode. It would probably be pretty intertesting...

[350XXX]

i just saw a review in a magazine Sunday, i think it was ATV Action, on the sand show and someone was selling threewheelers! the name was Hill(something). they were two strokes with a huge hand welded pipe out the left side. i dont know if they are refurbished or new ones though. they did look sweet though.

[Yamahammer490]

First, I don't think you'll want to watch that 20/20 episode. It will raise your blood pressure and cause you to use too much foul language! I remember watching it and it was total yellow journalism. Some 8 year old kid going like Hell on a Big Red and having it flip over on him.

A year or two ago a web site called "3 Wheel Revival" had a very in-depth article about the whole deal. The author, a guy called Jadebull or something similar, did one of those "follow the money" type articles. I can't vouch for its accuracy but it sure helped explain a lot. His web site just disappeared soon afterward so I suspect some lawyer found he was getting too close to the truth.

One of his main points, beside the liability lawsuits, was that the American snowmobile industry was trying to protect their market because Polaris and Arctic Cat were worried that ATVs would erode the snowmobile market. Again, I don't know if it was true or not but it sure made a compelling story.

I wonder where he and his web site went.

[Domingo]

I am justwant to learn a little bit about the history of my beloved trike. This video might be a good laugh too, on how silly people can be. I was one year old at the time and can't remember anything about it. I just thought it would be interesting to learn some history about my R, even if it is angering.

[mymint87]

i really wish everyone would stop beating this drum


IT"S DONE................IT"S OVER


I know what we all want...

as Holic said, RESPECT and "the 3 wheeler recognized as a legitimate ATC/ATV" (sorry for the mis-quote but i think this is your meaning)

we will never move forward if we keep beating that drum and by dragging out the darkest days of the 3 wheeler to relive OVER and OVER wishing there was something more we could have done...

there is something we can do......

what about the GOOD DAYS?

the GLORY DAYS?


LETS TALK ABOUT THAT!!!.....OK?


like i said ...

who knows where the resurgence will come from?

the way i see it is this,

three wheeler are an abundance out here in the west,
but where are the enthusiats?
where are the people that are actually going to push the issue?
where are the ones that will restore and preserve them?
not from here
out here many people still consider a 3 wheeler "a poor mans Quad"

we should not be asking," where did they go?"

we should be asking, "where will they come from?"

COME ON..... LETS BE HEARD!!!!!!

[TimSr]

I think the most important lesson to be learned is what the CPSC can do with a simple mandate without ever taking a vote, and we should all be reminded to be diligent about what actions CPSC can and will attempt to do in the future. Mymint87 is right in that a reversal is never gonna happen, and no major MFG will ever enter that fray again. If Honda decided to build another trike, CPSC would be back in action before the first batch ever got unloaded on American turf.
The CPSC has been in full swing with a whole new batch of regulations and limitations on ATVs now on the market and its up to ATV enthusiasts to stay informed and diligent to make sure they never pull another similar stunt. Its also our duty to police our own ranks against irresponsible ATV use which which is the fuel they used to burn our rights then, and is the fuel with which they will burn our rights again.
We cant change what has been done, but these questions do need to be answered and understood, and we need to undertsand in what ways we failed to stop it so that it can be prevented from happening again.

[Red Rider]

Mymint, 3-wheelers are not only legitimate ATV's, they're also the original ATV.
As for beating the drum over and over: The fact that people are always posting questions such as, "Is this a stock pipe?" or "Is my swingarm factory?", just goes to show you that there are thousands of 3-wheeler enthusiasts out there who weren't around in the "good ole days", or were to young to remember them. For the same reasons, they want to understand why these bikes aren't being produced anymore. In history class, when someone asked why the Civil War took place, I never heard the teacher respond, "IT'S DONE....IT'S OVER, I don't want to talk about it anymore!"

Maybe a special section should be added to this website dedicated to the demise of 3-wheeler production, a little history lesson if you will. While I agree this is a sore subject with a lot of people here, I know there's a lot of curiosity about it also. If a link was put on the homepage, you'd never have to visit it if you didn't want to. Also, it would probably reduce the number of posts on the subject. Through a little education, maybe we can prevent a similar occurance from happening to our other interests.

We can't blame it all on the CPSC (Consumer Products Safety Commission, for those who don't know) though. A huge portion of the blame needs to be placed the "ambulance chasing" lawyers & lawsuit happy americans. The lawsuits & lawyers had a similar effect on general aviation back in the late 80's, causing Cessna to halt production, & other manufacturers to scale back production on GA (General Aviation) aircraft. It wasn't until the General Aviation Revitalization Act, that passed a few years ago, that Cessna actually resumed production on single-engine GA aircraft. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see a "3-Wheeler Revitalization Act" nor a restart of 3-wheeler production lines at Honda, Kawasaki, & Yamaha. We can still dream though!

[Red Rider]

I did some searching and found a link to the text of a typical ATV lawsuit. Be warned though, the way the lawyer presents his case on the ATV's so called "defective design" will definitely piss you off. The part where the lawyer is referring to advertisements that show "vehicles flying in the air, up and down hills, across rocks and through forests" is rather humorous though. I guess I find this part funny because I envision a geeky little lawyer that sounds like Eddie Murphy's impersonation of a white guy. Anyway, here's the link: http://www.cabanisslaw.com/pub/allterrain.html

[glass]

I grew up on three wheelers, I lived through it all, the rise and fall. Yes It pissed me off watching the 20/20 episode. A couple of posts up it was said that hrc wished atc never happend and that there was no way they would build another three wheeler due to litigation. I have to say that I don't understand why, Somewhere on the net recently I read a report by the cpsc saying that when atv's went to all 4 wheels that the injury rate actually increased( so the three wheeler had nothing to do with it). When anything grows in popularity more accidents will follow. Just look at one of the posts on here this morning showing a guy jumping his 250r with flip flops on(completely stupid) It was crap like this that contributed. The four major manufacturers are producing sport bikes of 150+ hp and weigh under 400lbs. Any schmoe can go buy one , licensce or not, and with absolutley no experience. If I was a manufacturer I would stop all production of those out of fear of lawsuits before I was afraid of three wheelers. Sorry to ramble but I get pissed when things are taken away from me because of peoples stupidity and unwillingness too accept resposibility for their actions.

[jenndnn3]

The "final consent decree" Is available on the net to read here

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia99/pubcom/pubcom.html

Scroll down mid page you will see its 5 parts.....mostly aimed at the manufacturers of its time...ATC's were targeted in this decree but if you actually read it, its not its actuall target. At least thats what I read into it.

[86waterpumper]

When was the actual decree passed? I was reading a very early 3/4 wheel action like jan or feb, and at least in that issue, there was talk of it, but I don't think people were too worried. I think they said something like the cspc has abandoned this project for how, hopefully cooler heads will prevail in future hearings. What seemed funny to me was how fast the Cpsc switched gears. In that mag, the main focus was on small (kid) sized atvs both four wheels and 3 wheelers being outlawed, I guess like 90cc and under. I have no clue why they jumped from one ban to the other so fast.

[Jeb]

Hey ChrisD, that picture you posted looks more like the show "60 Minutes" than "20/20". Did 60 Minutes do a story too?

i was a kid when that 20/20 episode aired and vaguely remember watching it because my parents watched it. I just watched it to see trikes on TV. I also remember local news stories jumping on the band wagon.

[ChrisD]

Oops...it was 60 minutes.

[Clioboy1200]

Its an interesting topic this one, and one I have indeed pondered for a while. Thanks for filling me in on the info.

Trikeaholic mentioned in a previous post that it is no longer against the law to sell or import new three wheelers. Does this mean a frame builder with a decent engine supplier could now mass produce and market a three wheeler?? I aint a framebuilder by any means, but im positive that there is enough experience and knowledge amongst the people in this board alone to give it a go...... only a small suggestion. And now with such mediums as e-bay the bike would be easier marketed.

Hope I ain't speaking out of turn guys :(

Dave

[TimSr]

The import ban was a US CPSC action, and had no bearing or jurisdiction in other countries such as yours. The major MFG's simply stopped production as the product line could not be financially justified without the US market. They also anticipated other countries following the US example.
Anyone can build or import them to the US now, but as I said, if its anybody big enough to get the public's attention, the CPSC will have a new decree in place before they ever reach our shores.

[Trevor C.]

It was a bad deal. I"ve never seen anythink like it before and hope to never see it again. What are they going to do next is the big question?

[jenndnn3]

Trevor they are trying for the complete ban of anyone under 16.......now think, It will effect every family out there, with kids under 16.

[TimSr]

Thats just one of many. Their current age /size recommendations are so silly its ridiculous and they are discussing making it "law". They are talking about mandating what safety gear youll be required to wear. They are talking mandatory traing courses, and even a "permit" system. They are looking at size and performnce restrictions on the new large 4 stroke sport quad "death machines". Many states have already adopted licensing, registration, and insurance requirements.

Most of us (sadly, not all of us) are all for riding safely and responsibly, and getting the proper training, but lets face it, when the government madates it, their ideas of how to achieve this rarely match mine.

[Glenn J]

Thats just one of many. Their current age /size recommendations are so silly its ridiculous and they are discussing making it "law".

It shouldn't be age, it should be height and weight...just like they sell snow skis. We've all seen some tall/big 14-15 year olds. It's completely irrational to stuff a big kid on a 90cc quad.

Speaking of 60 Minutes.... Anyone can get a transcript of that segment. You can also get a VHS copy as well. You'd just need to e-mail 60 Minutes and they'll send you back the episode number and how to order the transcript and/or tape.

Regarding 3wheelerrevival.com.. Jaydebull took some time off from the stie. A lot of the pics are now locate don www.trikeheaven.com

[samster143]

WHY?=======MONEY!

[jenndnn3]

How does this = money?? I see this as a major loss for all parties, including govt.

[TimSr]

Your licensing and registrations done on the state and local level are all about money, but that is not the CPSC.

The other stuff is about government making intelligent responsible decisions for us because we are all too stupid to take care of ourselves and claim personal responsibility and need them to take care of us.

[hondatrikesrule22]

Wouldn't that suck, having to be 16 to ride a little zinger, or a 70 :shock: You would look ridiculaus(spelling) :D .