ATC200M stalling when put in gear?

[BarnBoy]

Hi, my ATC200M is stalling when put in gear. Doesent matter whether it has just been started or is warmed up. Tried lowering the idle, doesent help. It will sort of idle in 3rd gear but usually creeps in 1st and 2nd and stalls fairly quickly. If I give it a little gas it I can get it rolling and it shifts fine after that. Though I have noticed that it was a little hard to downshift when slowing down.

I recently put a clutch in it, and I used Centrifugal Clutch shoes from GH Discount ATV. I did notice that they fit very tightly into the clutch drum when I was installing them. I figured they would loosen up after riding a bit. I don't have a lot of ride time on it really, maybe 2-3 hrs max. since doing the clutch. Could it be that they still need to be broke in? Or is it possible that the one way clutch is in backwards? I dont remember removing it, but it may have come out and got put in wrong, though I think that is unlikely. Any ideas?

Thanks

[BarnBoy]

Anyone????

[BarnBoy]

Nothing was forced together to fit. It just seemed to fit quite tightly. I rebuilt the clutch following the factory service manual to a T. I am 99.9% sure that my problem is in the centrifugal clutch, either the one way bearing OR clutch shoes that are too big. Just trying to see if anyone had this problem before and what causes it.

Has anyone else had the problem of clutch shoes being too large and causing the centrifugal clutch to stick with aftermarket shoes? What brand of shoes should I buy?

[BarnBoy]

I dont know if OEM Honda shoes are available anymore?? The clutch was slipping very very badly before I replaced it. I put in a use clutch drum from another parts bike that had much shallower grooves in the drum than the original one. Then I installed brand new GH Discount ATV clutch shoes, which I noticed fit quite tightly, as in very little space between the drum and shoes. I hoped it would break in and not cause any problems.

So, since they are not wearing in, can I got in there and file the shoes down a little to make them fit and work properly? I had read of some people doing this, but not sure how it worked out or if that would affect anything in the clutch operation. Dont really have money for new OEM shoes, so would like to try and make this set work.

[jabhonda]

I put the same clutch in a 82 Honda 200 and I had to sand the shoes and drum just a little and it works good. I did have a slight creep for the first ride or two but its good now.

[BarnBoy]

I put the same clutch in a 82 Honda 200 and I had to sand the shoes and drum just a little and it works good. I did have a slight creep for the first ride or two but its good now.

Thank you. So did you just use sand paper to sand it down?

I have noticed that the creeping has got a little better since I put the clutch in but it still stalls. So I will order a gasket, and try to take the shoes out and sand them a little so it wont creep.

[jabhonda]

I just sanded it by hand with sand paper and does it stall in neutral also or just when you put it in gear?

[BarnBoy]

Only stalls in when you put it in gear. I tried putting it in 3rd gear and it usually wont stall in 3rd so I am thinking it the shoes sticking because they are too big. What do you think?

[jabhonda]

I'd say your probably correct so try sanding the shoes and drum and see what happens and you might not need a new gasket if it's not been together very long.

[BarnBoy]

Yeah, it has been together for a year or so now. But maybe, because I did put a light film of oil on the gasket before installing.

Thanks for the help.

[Russell 350X]

I dont know if OEM Honda shoes are available anymore?? The clutch was slipping very very badly before I replaced it. I put in a use clutch drum from another parts bike that had much shallower grooves in the drum than the original one. Then I installed brand new GH Discount ATV clutch shoes, which I noticed fit quite tightly, as in very little space between the drum and shoes. I hoped it would break in and not cause any problems.

So, since they are not wearing in, can I got in there and file the shoes down a little to make them fit and work properly? I had read of some people doing this, but not sure how it worked out or if that would affect anything in the clutch operation. Dont really have money for new OEM shoes, so would like to try and make this set work.

Look on bikebandit.com or mrcycles.com, they deal with oem parts.

[BarnBoy]

Look on bikebandit.com or mrcycles.com, they deal with oem parts.

Thanks, looked there but they are discontinued by Honda.

[El Camexican]

If I were you I'd pull it apart and see what size feeler gauge fits between the shoes and the drum.

I have no idea what the factory says it should be, or if they even have a tolerance, but due to differences in spring lengths, tension and wear in the areas that the springs hook into I would think that you would want at least .020" of free clearance all the way around.

You may know this, but in case you don't a centrifugal clutch like yours opens when the inertial of the rotating assembly overcomes the springs that are holding the shoes in place. If the springs are weak, or the pads you put on are heavier than the old ones the clutch will try to activate at a slightly lower RPM. Once it's activated or "opened" it only gets tighter with RPM. All wear occurs when the drum and the shoes are turning at different speeds. As well, aside from being immersed in engine temperature oil, they only rise above engine temperature and "get hot" when they are slipping. Towing, doubling up, obese riders and starting off in 2nd or 3rd gear are when most of the wear occurs on a centrifugal clutch. You do a clutch much less harm powering into a start than you do feathering the throttle to get it moving.

Seeing that you put it together a year ago I doubt you have the original shoes to compare against the diameter the circumference of the new shoes, but it would have been nice to see how close they were, or if there were any other differences.

Depending on how tight the static clearance is between the shoes and the drum you may want to consider getting the drum turned to reduce the groves. That would be the best long term solution with the only downside being that it might heat and warp under extreme use if you cut too much off, but I wouldn't give that a second thought unless you were planning to cut the groves right out, or remove over .060" of material. Let me clarify that comment: Do not remove any more material than is needed in order to achieve .20 to .30" of clearance between the pads and the shoes before testing it.

PS, I have no idea what a Honda centrifugal clutch looks like, so someone want to current my assumptions for this application please do.

[BarnBoy]

If I were you I'd pull it apart and see what size feeler gauge fits between the shoes and the drum.

Yeah, I will likely do that.

I have no idea what the factory says it should be, or if they even have a tolerance, but due to differences in spring lengths, tension and wear in the areas that the springs hook into I would think that you would want at least .020" of free clearance all the way around.

You may know this, but in case you don't a centrifugal clutch like yours opens when the inertial of the rotating assembly overcomes the springs that are holding the shoes in place. If the springs are weak, or the pads you put on are heavier than the old ones the clutch will try to activate at a slightly lower RPM. Once it's activated or "opened" it only gets tighter with RPM. All wear occurs when the drum and the shoes are turning at different speeds. As well, aside from being immersed in engine temperature oil, they only rise above engine temperature and "get hot" when they are slipping. Towing, doubling up, obese riders and starting off in 2nd or 3rd gear are when most of the wear occurs on a centrifugal clutch. You do a clutch much less harm powering into a start than you do feathering the throttle to get it moving.

Yes, I do understand how the centrifugal clutches work, but you have some good points there. I towed a lot with this trike, and have carried *ahem* more than 2 people on it before so I can understand that. It was slipping really bad before I took it apart. Like 1/3 throttle before the thing would move.

Seeing that you put it together a year ago I doubt you have the original shoes to compare against the diameter the circumference of the new shoes, but it would have been nice to see how close they were, or if there were any other differences.

Hahaha. Oh, I still have them. :) I keep EVERYTHING. Just need to figure out which box they are in..... LOL But I will pull them out and check them against the aftermarket shoes once I tear into the bike. I actually have some OEM shoes off a parts machine too, so I can check against them if needed as well.

Depending on how tight the static clearance is between the shoes and the drum you may want to consider getting the drum turned to reduce the groves. That would be the best long term solution with the only downside being that it might heat and warp under extreme use if you cut too much off, but I wouldn't give that a second thought unless you were planning to cut the groves right out, or remove over .060" of material. Let me clarify that comment: Do not remove any more material than is needed in order to achieve .20 to .30" of clearance between the pads and the shoes before testing it.

Ok... I dont think that is a bad idea. And I have *I think* at least 2 spare drums so I can definitely look into that. I also have access to a fairly decent machine shop in town so I can ask the guy there about it.

PS, I have no idea what a Honda centrifugal clutch looks like, so someone want to current my assumptions for this application please do.

If anyone else has experience with turning drums, etc, or if anyone has done what El suggested, please let me know.