310 lock up

[threewheelin-feelin]

so i just got the top in back together on my 310. ive probably put about 4 tanks of gas thrue it...it locked up while drag racing this past weekend. i opened it up last night and found this...

[RubberSalt]

Woah. Thats the first I've seen that.

How were the vibrations prior to the lock up?

[atc300r]

What crank is that.

[barnett468]

Did the rod seize also?


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[jb2wheels]

Is rust normal?
Why was the top end off?
I'm nosy.

[threewheelin-feelin]

hot rods crank. rod did not sieze. i had the topend off due to the motor overheating and piston seize last year. this is also the first time ive seen this. no vibration at all. the motor sputtered about 3 times then locked up tighter than a drum. i got to split the cases but i assume the crank bearing locked up

[big specht]

It's kind of normal google 250r crank tins. Probably had a bad seal on the tin and got full of fuel and caused it to split

[threewheelin-feelin]

what kinda of crank should i use to avoid this?

[Dirtcrasher]

Makes me wonder if the crank pin to bore size hole were a bit too much.

How do they make a 310??

Is it all jug and piston size or is the crank pin offset/ changed too and or receives a different rod in the OEM crank halves bore??

[yaegerb]

what kinda of crank should i use to avoid this?

Hit up selvy on Facebook and see if he has another crank lying around for an 85. Ask him to weld the tins before he sends it back to you. It can be a weak spot on those cranks. Probably want to get a new rod while you are at it.

[El Camexican]

Any idea how many times the rod pin has been replaced in that crank? There are limits to how many times things can be press fit into a hole and if by chance it was done in less than optimal conditions, like say the crank was cooler than the pin when it was pressed in that could have stressed the part. Another possibility is that the crank fractured the first time it was assembled and the added stress of the heavier piston could have done it in.

[atc300r]

I heard Wiseco cranks are known for this type of failure.Is the crack in the tin or on the crank lobe.

[big specht]

That is a tin failure

[threewheelin-feelin]

this is a 3 year old hot rods crank. took it out of the box and put it in. it was a stock replacement...what is the tin? im confused

[Dirtcrasher]

^ It doesn't look like it has any tin on it like OEM??

[barnett468]

this is a 3 year old hot rods crank. took it out of the box and put it in. it was a stock replacement...what is the tin? im confused


It is a very thin metal "housing" that is wrapped around the crankshaft on your model which "The TECATE...The Most Powerful 3 wheeler In The World!" doesn't use cuz it doesn't need one. :lol:

wimpy 250r crank with tin foil wrap.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/dP8AAOSwG-1Wvgij/$_57.JPG


TECATE crank....oops, I couldn't find a photo of one to post cuz they don't seem to grenade but I did find several photos of them running like the one below for example.

.................................................. http://www.quadpit.com/images/mags/stories/1986/tecate/51.jpg



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[jb2wheels]

It is a very thin metal "housing" that is wrapped around the crankshaft on your model which "The TECATE...The Most Powerful 3 wheeler In The World!" doesn't use cuz it doesn't need one. :lol:
TECATE crank....oops, I couldn't find a photo of one to post cuz they don't seem to grenade but I did find several photos of them running like the one below for example.


Barnett make me want to buy another T3 when what I really need is time to ride the runner 85 I have and restore the crap 84 in my yard.

[yaegerb]

this is a 3 year old hot rods crank. took it out of the box and put it in. it was a stock replacement...what is the tin? im confused

The tins are the big things on either side of the rod (aka, what is broke in your pic). Those occasionally need to be welded on the seams.

[yaegerb]

It is a very thin metal "housing" that is wrapped around the crankshaft on your model which "The TECATE...The Most Powerful 3 wheeler In The World!" doesn't use cuz it doesn't need one. :lol:

wimpy 250r crank with tin foil wrap.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/dP8AAOSwG-1Wvgij/$_57.JPG


TECATE crank....oops, I couldn't find a photo of one to post cuz they don't seem to grenade but I did find several photos of them running like the one below for example.

.................................................. http://www.quadpit.com/images/mags/stories/1986/tecate/51.jpg



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I can go find you a flywheel pic instead......

[jb2wheels]

Something like my recent ones...

The green one is the after John Swineheart picture of the red one.

I sprayed a bunch of WD40 and put the cover back on the rusty one for another day

245284 245287 245285 245286

[barnett468]

Is rust normal?

Apparently so....if it's a HONDA! https://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/hysterical.gif



I've seen two broken backbones before and it was due to the front of the frame rusting out and letting go.


I broke the backbone on my first R after only two races.


I started taking it apart. Lots of stuff is bad, bent, cracked and rusted like usual I guess. Front axle was seized in the hub. This is what I found when I removed the 84's axle carrier. It had been broke and welded up and then reshaped, what a mess.


i have some problem...trying to remove the swingarm bolt on a 1985 ATC250R with no success!!!


I had to cut my bolt out!


I cut my 86 bolt out too! With a freaking sawzall l o l . You may have to find a press to get the pieces out now! I had to


Join the club! Wack the sh!t out of it with a rubber or lead filled mallet. If it still don't move, hit it with a steel hammar (use the nut to protect the threads), if that don't work, hit it bang on but you may/will wreck the threads this way. Final way is the sawzall! You're lucky it's an 85, as the bolts are fairly easy to find on e-bay. If it was an 84...oh boy!


Tool kit required to maintain a TECATE.

https://images.bonanzastatic.com/afu/images/6346/3802/_bs63urqbmk___kgrhgoh-eyejlll0h2jbkfrnfbgqg___12_thumbtall.jpg

https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/6X317_AS01?$mdmain$

https://www.betafer.it/6231-large_default/chiavi-bussola-flessibile-p-20983.jpg
Tool kit required to maintain a 250r.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ec/7f/d4/ec7fd40ad3785c784d1f0ed24734b462.jpg



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[Dirtcrasher]

Did he not say it was a hot rods crank??

I'm aware OEM had that but I didn't think those HR cranks had that tin cover on the halves....

Anyone know what Hondas purpose of making the tin covers on the OEM crank was??

You know, for the 85 and 86 HONDA ATC250R liquid cooled amazingly bulletproof motors in such a well handling and suspended chassis on a trike that is still easy to get new parts for.....

[Red Rider]

Tool kit required to maintain a 250r.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ec/7f/d4/ec7fd40ad3785c784d1f0ed24734b462.jpgYes indeed, 250R owners appreciate quality engineered tools & motorcycles, thus the Mac tool set. Based on your chosen tools to maintain Tecates, I think you might have been the previous owner of the Tecate I'm currently working on. That would definitely explain all of the rounded, mangled nuts & bolts. Also, you left out the most important tool in the Tecate owner's toolbag.

https://images.uline.com/is/image//content/dam/images/HD/HD9000/HD09_8551.jpg?$Utility$&iccEmbed=1&icc=AdobeRGB

[barnett468]

Yes indeed, 250R owners appreciate quality engineered tools & motorcycles, thus the Mac tool set.

Then you and other honda owners should also appreciate another one of the fine tools needed just to remove a swing arm bolt from a honda.

http://www.pressmaster-hydraulic-presses.com/media/rkmachinery_picture.largePicture/IMG_0325_RK.jpg


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[barnett468]

.

....and for those honda owners that are on a budget cuz they already spent most of their money on high performance aftermarket parts just to try and keep a stock TECATE in sight, they can rent one of these from home depot to remove the swingarm bolt, and by the looks of the heavily worn box, it appears that many other honda owners have already done just that! :)


................................................. http://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net/images/b/a/milwaukee-heavy-duty-sawzall-reciprocating-saw-6507-metal-carrying-case-blade-3d3e204d9f4dad539ca59d4b7ab9e713.jpg



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[Red Rider]

A properly maintained Honda will never have a seized swingarm pivot bolt. This is only an issue with neglected bikes. That being said, I doubt a seized swingarm pivot bolt ever stranded any 250R owner miles from camp.

[Red Rider]

I'm aware OEM had that but I didn't think those HR cranks had that tin cover on the halves...I replaced my oem Honda crank a few years ago (just to be on the safe side) with a Hotrods crank, and it looked identical to the oem unit, so yes, they have the tins as well.



Anyone know what Hondas purpose of making the tin covers on the OEM crank was??According to MacDizzy.com, here's an answer:

Honda TRX250R Barrels

The 1985 / 1986 ATC250R and 1986 TRX250R use the same connecting rod - the "short rod" 125.3 mm . Ninteen eighty seven is the first year of the "long rod" engines. All 1987 through 1989 TRX250R's use a 130.3 mm connecting rod. Incidentally, Honda doesn't sell the connecting rod alone. The TRX's use a "tin can" (strapped) crank - they were designed to be throw-away items so Honda only sells complete crankshafts. The after market does sell connecting rods (both lengths) to rebuild the crankshafts to those willing to spend the time to make the tooling required to take apart, install a new rod kit on, and put back together these crankshafts.

http://www.macdizzy.com/update54.html

[barnett468]

I replaced my oem Honda crank a few years ago (just to be on the safe side) with a Hotrods crank, and it looked identical to the oem unit, so yes, they have the tins as well.

According to MacDizzy.com, here's an answer:

...they were designed to be throw-away items so Honda only sells complete crankshafts.

That not a surprise to me in the least, however, no need to despair honda owners cuz honda came out with an easy to use crankshaft tin repair kit for those. https://www.mustang.org.au/forum/Smileys/smilies/thumbsup.gif


.................................................. ..... http://www.differencebetween.info/sites/default/files/images/1/tin-foil.jpg

.................................................. ....... https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQER76mR-7yHrehWYfJ1QQobRYLeRZudI5_1pF-VPD6OGl7_eXL



....and if you have any left over you can make yourself a nice new helmet. I think you would look dashing in the Fez model. :)

........................... http://in5d.com/images/tin-foil-hats.jpg



OMG....I think my appendix just burst.

...http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif


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[threewheelin-feelin]

is hot rods the only option available now?

[3 Wheel Drive]

I think you can get one from ESR:

http://www.eddie-sanders-racing.com/category_s/68.htm

[Red Rider]

Prior to replacing my aging oem crank a few years ago, I did a bit of research on the subject of Hotrods vs. oem vs. rebuilt oem. Initially, I just wanted to rebuild my oem unit. Even though Honda only sells complete crankshafts, which implies that they can't be rebuilt, they actually can be rebuilt, but it is much more difficult to do it right compared to a non-tinned crank. Based on my research, the general consensus, via other online forums, is this: If the tin cover is damaged in any way during the rebuilding process, it will only go a few hours before grenading. The same seems to be true for the Hotrods cranks as well. Not wanting to chance an incorrectly rebuilt crank, I decided on the Hotrods option. Many years later, the crank is still going strong and has been trouble-free.


Anyone know what Hondas purpose of making the tin covers on the OEM crank was??Once again via other online forums, the general consensus is this: Honda used tinned cranks to reduce crankcase volume & turbulence, so the incoming air-charge flows smoother. Is it true? :wondering It sounds good to me though.

[yaegerb]

is hot rods the only option available now?

No, you can get an oem Honda 85 crank. Look on eBay. Again, whether it's hot rods or oem I would still get the tins welded.

[86T3]

245336
Tell that to my ex girlfriend

[barnett468]

Tell that to my ex girlfriend

Damn...she sounds like a keeper! :lol:



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