'86 350X Clutch Question

[Helopilots]

Hey guys. I've read through a ton of 350X clutch threads on here and I'm not finding a problem quite like mine so I've started yet another clutch thread. I just bought a 350X and the seller told me that a shop put a new clutch in for him. Not sure if it is OEM or aftermarket. When I ripped around on the thing before buying, it was fine. Hooked up great even when it was cold. Now, after I got it home and rode it once for a couple of hours and another time for about 30 minutes The clutch slips like crazy while cold and hooks up better, but not fully, when warm.

The cable is not in the best shape, but I've lubed it and it seems to be a bit better. Still not smooth, but works.

Questions, comments, solutions, etc before I start to tear this thing apart chasing something that could have been easily adjusted?

[wonderboy]

With the clutch handle fully released, is there play in the handle or is there constant tension from the cable taking up all play? Same question at the clutch arm at the side cover, is there play when the clutch lever is released? There are two places to adjust: one is right at the clutch handle perch and the other is on the cable itself near the headlight. Make sure it is adjusted until there is free play in the clutch handle, not a lot of free play but you need some to make sure you aren't slightly opening the clutch plates.

Aside from cable adjustment issues, you could have a severely notched clutch basket or the previous owner is feeding you a line of crap about having a new clutch.

Here is the manual information about adjusting the clutch:
241491

[atc007]

Need new fibers and springs. Inspect the steels and hub itself. But most likely just needs fibers and springs.

[fabiodriven]

I'd start with the cable. Wrap up the old one and tuck it under the seat regardless of the condition so now you always have a spare, don't even frig with it. Try the properly adjusted brand new cable and go from there. If the cable doesn't fix it dig into the clutch itself. As stated, a grooved clutch basket will frig you so that's the second thing to look at. If cable checks out, basket is OK, and all linkage is up to par then I'd just do a new clutch. Steels will last a very long time, you don't always have to replace those, but the fibers may have an issue just from the slipping you've had even if they're not the cause. Only way to know is to dig!

[Helopilots]

With the clutch handle fully released, is there play in the handle or is there constant tension from the cable taking up all play? Same question at the clutch arm at the side cover, is there play when the clutch lever is released? There are two places to adjust: one is right at the clutch handle perch and the other is on the cable itself near the headlight. Make sure it is adjusted until there is free play in the clutch handle, not a lot of free play but you need some to make sure you aren't slightly opening the clutch plates.

Aside from cable adjustment issues, you could have a severely notched clutch basket or the previous owner is feeding you a line of crap about having a new clutch.

Here is the manual information about adjusting the clutch:
241491

Thx, Frank. First, this is why I dig 3WW so much. You guys are are absolutely on top of any and all tech questions and know your stuff!
I adjusted in accordance with the manual and still have slippage. More when cold, less when hot.
I read in a previous thread that I will need a special tool to reassemble the clutch assy. I don't have that tool. Is it just a holding fixture? Maybe something that can be homade, as suggested in a thread, with some common tools?
Also, when you guys suggest it's the fibers, are you talking about the plates?
Next, I read something about the OEM replacements needing the notches filed before installation. I'm completely ignorant about what that is. Would the Barnett set need that and would that be a better direct replacement over stock?

[Helopilots]

Fabio, great idea to keep the old cable!

[fabiodriven]

I like OEM over anything. If not Barnett is great and people talk smack about EBC but I've never had issues with them. If OEM is available that's your best bet. I don't know about the filing deal. Also be sure your cable is routed and mounted correctly. I know the cables mount differently between 85-86 and it might even be a different cable completely between those two years. Make sure you have the right cable (assuming there is a difference).

[fabiodriven]

And yes, fibers are the plates with the clutch material on them. The clutch works exactly like a brake. Steels are your rotor and fibers are the pad. Same logic as not replacing your brake rotors if it's not needed.

[Helopilots]

I like OEM over anything. If not Barnett is great and people talk smack about EBC but I've never had issues with them. If OEM is available that's your best bet. I don't know about the filing deal. Also be sure your cable is routed and mounted correctly. I know the cables mount differently between 85-86 and it might even be a different cable completely between those two years. Make sure you have the right cable (assuming there is a difference).

Yep, OEM is available.

The cables are definitely different between '85 & '86.

[Helopilots]

And yes, fibers are the plates with the clutch material on them. The clutch works exactly like a brake. Steels are your rotor and fibers are the pad. Same logic as not replacing your brake rotors if it's not needed.

Perfect explanation, Lil' Shalmstein

[Helopilots]

And yes, fibers are the plates with the clutch material on them. The clutch works exactly like a brake. Steels are your rotor and fibers are the pad. Same logic as not replacing your brake rotors if it's not needed.

And, it's sad that I raced CCS for years and never had to replace a clutch. I always replaced the bike! Maybe it's because bikes are factory upgraded just about every year and they still make crotch rockets. But, I never had a clutch go bad. I still have one of my track bikes, a 2006 ZX-10R, and it has never had a major repair. I raced at Daytona in '99 on a '93 900RR and the only thing I went through was header gaskets, brake pads (EBC, HA!), and tires.

[Rob Canadian]

I wonder what engine oil is in it? It has a wet clutch. Heard things all over the map about oil...

[fabiodriven]

And, it's sad that I raced CCS for years and never had to replace a clutch. I always replaced the bike! Maybe it's because bikes are factory upgraded just about every year and they still make crotch rockets. But, I never had a clutch go bad. I still have one of my track bikes, a 2006 ZX-10R, and it has never had a major repair. I raced at Daytona in '99 on a '93 900RR and the only thing I went through was header gaskets, brake pads (EBC, HA!), and tires.

Blah blah blah... OK now everyone knows Mike's not a rookie. It's not like you were doing 100 mph wheelies on your ZX going faster than I could on my Buell with both my wheels on the ground or anything like that.

[Helopilots]

I wonder what engine oil is in it? It has a wet clutch. Heard things all over the map about oil...

I was talkin to a buddy today about that. I assumed that if a shop did the clutch, they'd know to replace the oil with the right stuff. Maybe a cheap way to troubleshoot?? I was mostly curious why the clutch hooks up better while warm than cold.

[Helopilots]

Blah blah blah... OK now everyone knows Mike's not a rookie. It's not like you were doing 100 mph wheelies on your ZX going faster than I could on my Buell with both my wheels on the ground or anything like that.

I thought it was because you weren't familiar with the roads. But, you did jump a curb while I was left sitting there going whaaaaa??!!

[fabiodriven]

The more I think about it I recall a buddy having problems diagnosing a 350X clutch issue with the outcome being either the wrong cable routed correctly or the right cable routed incorrectly. 85 cable on an 86 bike or vicey versey or 86 routing on an 85 bike, whatever. Either way it was causing some odd problems until he figured out they're different between the two years. That's why I thought the two had different cables.

And yes I love to jump curbs on my Buell. Also my bike was running horribly when I was there due to the oil being way over full and the factory crank case breather puking oil into the intake. It's since been modified and corrected.

[Shawn Powell]

I'd start with a good hot oil change and go to a basic Honda gn4 10/40 or 20/50( if you ride in hot weather) I had a buddy put Mobil one in his 400ex and could t get it to stop slipping. Took about 3 oil changes to fix completely but it was rideable after the first one. Who knows what the other guy did.


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[Helopilots]

The more I think about it I recall a buddy having problems diagnosing a 350X clutch issue with the outcome being either the wrong cable routed correctly or the right cable routed incorrectly. 85 cable on an 86 bike or vicey versey or 86 routing on an 85 bike, whatever. Either way it was causing some odd problems until he figured out they're different between the two years. That's why I thought the two had different cables.

And yes I love to jump curbs on my Buell. Also my bike was running horribly when I was there due to the oil being way over full and the factory crank case breather puking oil into the intake. It's since been modified and corrected.

Yeah, the '85 routes between the headers and needs a heat shield to keep it from melting. It's also about 2 inches longer. I have the correct one on this bike.

Your bike seemed to run fine...I think it was an operator deficiency complicated by an empty yambag with a smidge of fraidyitis. But, the oil thing sounds legit, too! ;-)

[Helopilots]

I'd start with a good hot oil change and go to a basic Honda gn4 10/40 or 20/50( if you ride in hot weather) I had a buddy put Mobil one in his 400ex and could t get it to stop slipping. Took about 3 oil changes to fix completely but it was rideable after the first one. Who knows what the other guy did.


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The 20/50 for a hot climate, right? It's just about summer time in Arkansas and it hovers around 100 degrees in the shade. I figure that's the easiest and least costly troubleshooting to this problem. If the clutch is shot then just changing the oil isn't going to hurt anything else, right? If the clutch is good and the current oil is bad, then the right oil could make errthang ok?

[fabiodriven]

It could but that wouldn't explain your tough clutch pull.

[Shawn Powell]

The 20/50 for a hot climate, right? It's just about summer time in Arkansas and it hovers around 100 degrees in the shade. I figure that's the easiest and least costly troubleshooting to this problem. If the clutch is shot then just changing the oil isn't going to hurt anything else, right? If the clutch is good and the current oil is bad, then the right oil could make errthang ok?

Yeah I run 20/50 in the summer. (Just changed it getting above 90 here in so cal ) and 10/40 when winter hits. I use Honda basic gn4 in all my older Hondas ,87 xl600, 2002 400ex , 1999 xr400 , and 85 350x. No issues. Same program for all of em. And yeah changing the oil and filter can't hurt anything. Worse case your out 18$ or so. If it still slips then maybe pull the covers.


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[atc007]

To the op,a true 86 will have the clutch cable coming in on the stator side ,slotting in underneath the carb. IF someone has cobbled a 85 engine in,the cable will come right down through the piping hot exhaust into the clutch side of the engine. I hate internet and typing...When you say you lubed the cable and it got a lil better. I assume,,,,you have a good cable luber and forced good clean fluid,cable lube,wd,pb whatever,down the entire cable until it ran clean. Leaving you with a perfect cable. If that is not the case. I agree with Fabs. A new cable leaves no doubt. The special tool is a hub holder. Not necessary at all if you have a impact gun. By hand there are any number of ways to hold things still from cardboard to a penny to rags to hold the gears still while you loosen and tighten the clutch nut. Impact being the perfect way.

I have never had a single drop of problems with a EBC,chinese ,no names or OE. Obviously, you cannot possibly go wrong with oe. Filing comes into play when your clutch hub is notchy from hard engagements. The fingers should be smooth. Yours isn't grabby,so that is not your issue,but you will address it while you're in there. Assemble everything right and you will probably never be in there again. Most guys soak the new plates,I never have. It is a straight forward job,pay attention to detail and common sense. It is easy to not get the pressure plate all the way back into the hub . That is probably the most common error. You're replacing the springs because ,well, they are 32 years old and have been under pressure that long. They will assure nothing slips when you get everything back together.

[BOB MARLIN]

A cable that is going bad will make the clutch slip. If it is starting to fray inside the sheath, no amount of lube will help. Cables are cheap, I would start there. OEM clutch plates work just fine, no need to upgrade. An impact wrench is my favorite way to get the clutch off the bike, no special tool needed if you use an impact. If you don't have an impact, be very careful on how you hold the clutch basket. They are very easy to brake. When you put the side cover back on make sure you have the decomp lever in the right position, this is how most of them get broken.

[Helopilots]

A new cable fixed it right up. No slip...all grip!